ExpressJet_ERJ From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 827 posts, RR: 4 Reply 1, posted (2 years 5 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 7190 times:
A DL DC9 had to be towed today, they were taking Runway 29, and the ice took them off the side (never departed the pavement but it was close)
slcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2452 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (2 years 5 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 7160 times:
MNMncrcnwjr From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 308 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (2 years 5 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 7079 times:
Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 2): 15% of Americans think St Louis is the ugliest airport in America
Well you can count me as one ..... but the new ceiling lights are a nice touch
thegoldenargosy From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 223 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (2 years 5 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 7001 times:
I'm not sure how Philadelphia ranked worst. I think Terminal 3 at JFK and STL are far worse.
stlAV8R From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 112 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (2 years 5 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 6791 times:
I have seen a lot of electricians lately and I saw a group standing at gate A8 getting briefed as to the changes happening. I don't know what exactly they are working on but there is at least 20 of them at a time.
atrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5613 posts, RR: 54 Reply 7, posted (2 years 5 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 6767 times:
Quoting thegoldenargosy (Reply 5): I'm not sure how Philadelphia ranked worst. I think Terminal 3 at JFK and STL are far worse.
STL doesn't have a Terminal 3...
Which area of the Terminal's are you referring to? We have Terminal 1/Main Terminal, housing DL, AA, 9K, F9, AS, US, CO, UA. Then Terminal 2/East Terminal which houses Southwest and the respective charter companies.
Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
stlAV8R From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 112 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (2 years 5 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 6564 times:
Sadly STL is going to either be near or be at the top of the list for worst airport facilities. It is not "modern day" with large airy terminals with open views that people are used to. The amenities that other airports offer rival STL in a way that even if people don't patronize the shops, they still want them there. I would love to see some technology in the airport like DL is doing in JFK. That would be nice.
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21216 posts, RR: 19 Reply 11, posted (2 years 5 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 6462 times:
Quoting stlAV8R (Reply 10): It is not "modern day" with large airy terminals with open views that people are used to.
Main Terminal is quite open and airy (and actually - dare I say it - attractive) . . . until you go downstairs.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
atrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5613 posts, RR: 54 Reply 12, posted (2 years 5 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 6457 times:
Quoting steex (Reply 8):
I believe those were two separate references....STL (overall) and Terminal 3 at JFK.
Quoting BretonRLong (Reply 9):
Yes I thought the same thing as well, but like steex i think it was 2 different references.
Ooops! I can see that now, the structure of the sentence didn't make sense to me! Sorry!
Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
stlAV8R From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 112 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (2 years 5 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 6418 times:
Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 11): Main Terminal is quite open and airy (and actually - dare I say it - attractive) . . . until you go downstairs.
Yes you are exactly right and I am anxious to see if the renderings really come to light (no pun intended) as far as brightening up the place. Also the removal of the TSA screening equipment from the ticketing hall will really help with natural light and the views from the space. Does anyone know when they plan to move those?
pqdtw From Netherlands, joined Aug 2008, 144 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (2 years 5 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6396 times:
Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 2): 15% of Americans think St Louis is the ugliest airport in America at least when i took the poll. For full disclosure i voted for JFK
LOL! That statement is a misrepresentation of the sample pool. Be careful in quoting statistics, because what you implied is the following:
1. That every single American has taken that poll, and that 15% of them find that STL is the ugliest airport.
2. Considering that there are 307,000,000 Americans roughly, that would be 46,000,000 who consider STL the ugliest airport. I doubt that 46,000,000 Americans have seen STL airport...
3. That only Americans took that poll. Considering that the poll is accessible to anyone in the world with a computer and internet access to that site, the sample pool is not only Americans.
The correct statement would have been 15% of the people who took the poll found STL to be the ugliest airport. Since we don't know how many people took the poll (it could have been 100, 1000, or 10 000), but it certainly wasn't every man, woman and child in America!
tsugambler From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 302 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (2 years 5 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6386 times:
Quoting pqdtw (Reply 14): I doubt that 46,000,000 Americans have seen STL airport..
Actually, 30 million people passed through Lambert/STL in the year 2001 alone... so I would say it's a good bet that over 46 million Americans have seen Lambert/STL. Still, I have seen some really ugly airports, and STL doesn't even come close to being a contender in that group. MLI, for example, is a really convenient and well-organized airport, but it's also not very attractive.
tsugambler From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 302 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (2 years 5 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6388 times:
Really, though, does anybody have any info on the China Cargo deal?
pqdtw From Netherlands, joined Aug 2008, 144 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (2 years 5 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6379 times:
Quoting tsugambler (Reply 15): Actually, 30 million people passed through Lambert/STL in the year 2001 alone...
Where does that statistic come from?
Atlanta boarded 40 million in 2006, so I can't see how STL could have boarded 30 million in 2001 !
And furthermore, let's just assume that 30 million would be correct, that's not 30 million separate individuals; otherwise, that would assume that each person only passed through the airport once.
atrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5613 posts, RR: 54 Reply 18, posted (2 years 5 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6369 times:
Quoting pqdtw (Reply 17):
Where does that statistic come from?
Atlanta boarded 40 million in 2006, so I can't see how STL could have boarded 30 million in 2001 !
STL was hub in 2000 and 2001 for TWA/AA so, ya it is quite believable as proved down below. The statistic comes from the airport's website themselves at www.flystl.com
Quoting tsugambler (Reply 15):
Actually, 30 million people passed through Lambert/STL in the year 2001 alone...
Not quite 30 Million in 2001, but in 2000 30 Mill did indeed pass through.
Quoting pqdtw (Reply 17):
And furthermore, let's just assume that 30 million would be correct, that's not 30 million separate individuals; otherwise, that would assume that each person only passed through the airport once.
Obviously, we know that it's connections and such, we know it isn't 30 mill individually LOL.
Alex
[Edited 2010-12-17 22:30:35]
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
slcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2452 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (2 years 5 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6349 times:
Quoting pqdtw (Reply 14): LOL! That statement is a misrepresentation of the sample pool. Be careful in quoting statistics, because what you implied is the following:
1. That every single American has taken that poll, and that 15% of them find that STL is the ugliest airport.
The part where i said "WHEN I TOOK THE POLL" indicates that it wasn't complete and clearly had not sampled everyone in America, Plus its on a website which i gave the link to so its clearly not asking everyone. A very small percentage of Americans have been to all those airports, what 1% anyway so how could they say which is the ugliest out of those, its clearly a sample.
Heres the definition of the term poll "A survey of the public or of a sample of public opinion to acquire information."
Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 2): 15% of Americans think St Louis is the ugliest airport in America at least when i took the poll. For full disclosure i voted for JFK
Anyone with a clear understanding of English would understand that i meant. I was just saying what the poll was AT THE TIME. That is why i included the "when i took the POLL" part. I never once claimed it to be a scientific test i was just making a joke and mentioning something about STL in the news, get a life. ATL is a fabulous city find something to do other than being a no-it-all
Quoting pqdtw (Reply 14): That only Americans took that poll. Considering that the poll is accessible to anyone in the world with a computer and internet access to that site, the sample pool is not only Americans.
If foreigners took that poll they really should stop wishing they were us and take their own poll. Its of American airports on an American site.
steex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1423 posts, RR: 9 Reply 20, posted (2 years 5 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6333 times:
Quoting tsugambler (Reply 16): Really, though, does anybody have any info on the China Cargo deal?
I haven't heard much new information on this lately. However, it is somewhat noteworthy that Missouri Governor Jay Nixon recently canceled a trip to discuss and announce trade deals in South Korea and Taiwan at the last minute without any reschedule. The rumor being reported was that the Chinese government contacted the Missouri contingent and informed them they (and their potential cargo hub) did not like the idea of the Missouri group visiting Taiwan. I don't know if this ultimately could influence the results, but the local media speculated that the Governor's office looked foolish for not understanding cultural and political differences.
Again, much of the above is rumor and speculation from local (STL) media outlets, but it's the last discussion involving the cargo hub that I've heard.
stlAV8R From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 112 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (2 years 5 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 6207 times:
Yeah they did cut the Taiwan trip because of China. It was in the St. Louis Biz Journal IIRC. Without this China cargo deal, STL airport will be in serious trouble and the people running the place recognize that. They are currently offering huge discounts for new service from new entrants and existing and they still are growing at a stagnant rate. The costs have gotten out of hand and they are having a real hard time reeling them back to a manageable level. I will give the airport kudos for their customer service as they are working toward a positive experience to match their work.
BretonRLong From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 16 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (2 years 5 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 6158 times:
Sometimes it makes me wonder if they should have just built a new facility after AA reduced all the flights something similar to RSW and let it grow from something more of manageable size. Rather than dump all of the money into an older facility.
stlAV8R From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 112 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (2 years 5 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 6127 times:
Quoting BretonRLong (Reply 22): Sometimes it makes me wonder if they should have just built a new facility after AA reduced all the flights something similar to RSW and let it grow from something more of manageable size. Rather than dump all of the money into an older facility.
It would have made a lot more sense. Even do it in a multi-stage deal where they could have built one side of the new facility and the other when it's time to grow, such as what was done in DEN and IAD for example.
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21216 posts, RR: 19 Reply 24, posted (2 years 5 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 6114 times:
Quoting stlAV8R (Reply 23): It would have made a lot more sense. Even do it in a multi-stage deal where they could have built one side of the new facility and the other when it's time to grow, such as what was done in DEN and IAD for example.
The trouble with those comparisons is that both had something STL doesn't: land (as did, for what it's worth, other new terminal projects like IND). Recall that when 11/29 was in the early planning stages, many of the airfield and terminal reconfiguration concepts involved at least a runway and in some cases a runway and terminal on the other side of 70. Obviously, the construction of 11/29 wasn't kind to the City of Bridgeton, but the uproar, cost, and upheaval associated with that project would have been nothing compared with what a new terminal would have required.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
25 BretonRLong: As a long time flyer out of St. Louis I am a big fan and have been hoping over the years something would happen at this airport but to me its just a
26 MNMncrcnwjr: I agree not something you see elsewhere... It's called a representative population.. the same as what Gallop, WSJ or Fox news does when collecting po
27 steex: This is revisionist history that seems to be brought up very frequently, though. The current situation with regard to flight levels developed long af
28 lambertman: The necessary W-1W explanation in any St. Louis thread. Nice. What's going to happen is that the facilities will eventually become obsolete from a fu
29 steex: So it goes, I guess. I agree, this may be the ultimate end-game. Another option that could be possible is to start by razing D and the end of C, allo
30 stlAV8R: This is all what I meant. Just move everybody to one side and start on the other. When you complete that half, then move everybody to the new half the
31 MNMncrcnwjr: That would work as would JAX with adding 4-5 gates per concourse and notice B is future expansion at JAX http://www.ifly.com/jacksonville-internation
32 BHMNONREV: C'mon LM, you know no discussion about STL would be complete without the obligatory reference to Leonard's Legacy.. Every time this gets mentioned it
33 stlAV8R: I would love to see this. I can't seem to find it either. I also have been looking for the renderings of the outside of T1 where they were going to l
34 Cubsrule: I don't think it will be a problem. I'd guess that DTW runs about 200-250 flights a day out of Concourse A, and it's essentially the same configurati
35 stlAV8R: Looks like STL is smoke-free starting today. Does anybody know what they plan on doing with those spaces? I know they still have to put in some previo
36 FlyBoy84: I found this from...SOMEwhere and I saved the image! I, too, think starting from scratch would've been better. Lambert itself will never be world-cla
37 BHMNONREV: Thanks FB, I have not been able to find my old photoshopped pic of the plans I remembered seeing, but yours is pretty much the same, save for the lit
39 nycbjr: This is probably really old news but Delta seems to really be stepping up flights to Lambert. I just booked a trip for early February to visit my fami
40 nonrevman: I always felt that the main terminal was impressive. Similar to the TWA terminal in JFK, it seems to be a reminder of another time in aviation. If the
41 MNMncrcnwjr: 70+ Gates stretched over a mile ..... what about the Buildings on the far NW corner adjacent to the west end of 12L?? could not that area be develope
42 stlgph: oooh...the loading zone. haha ;0 same here. too bad they built the parking garage in front of it.
43 TWFirst: Is that place still around?? Ah, memories
44 IcelandairMSP: Is Showtunes Tuesday still around? Sometimes I still miss STL . . . I think a major new terminal overhaul would be more likely if there weren't that
45 Cubsrule: Why would they have built a terminal rather than a runway in the 90s?
46 IcelandairMSP: They wouldn't have. The threat of majorly downsizing STL wasn't a threat until after the project was long in motion. It was critical at a time when i
47 slcdeltarumd11: I agree. STL is already so unused compared to its infastructure as is. The last thing that place needs is a major terminal renovation and higher rate
48 Lambertman: At some point the facilities will need to be updated. Although its unfeasible to do so right now, the master plan will have to be updated in the next
50 FlyBoy84: Frankly, I still don't understand how NOBODY here saw the AA situation coming! Maybe I'm currently working in the wrong field altogether! Having watc
51 Cubsrule: Yes, of course. But no one knew what temporary was. Had the economy remained strong and the ORD expansion not gotten done, "temporary" might have sta
52 FlyBoy84: No. AA was really only out to get what they could get of TW and STL then move on. Now, I'm not saying it makes AA a bad company or that they treated
53 BHMNONREV: They were started in late 81 or early 82 I believe, completed in 1983. I remember taking a STL-BOS-LHR run on TW in Dec 82 and we took a tunnel to a
54 Cubsrule: But when were they going to move on? Surely, you're not arguing that moving on in April, 2010 was preordained in 2001.
55 steex: But how do we resolve the fact that the wheels were in motion for that new runway before AA even took over TW? It's not as easy as we might think to
56 FlyBoy84: No. Not the exact date, per se. But I would argue that despite the rhetoric of their initial triumphant march...er...FLIGHT into STL they knew that a
57 Cubsrule: Sure - but no one knew if that would be 2 or 5 or 10 or 30 years down the road. And if you can have an AA hub for 30 years, isn't that better than th
58 FlyBoy84: Well...hindsight is always 20/20... For now, we're STUCK with what we have! In the future, we need to make sure we're focusing on priorities that hav
59 gunsontheroof: This is a ridiculous poll. Unless the data is compiled from a large sampling of regular, well traveled fliers, it doesn't mean much. That's not to sa
60 FlyBoy84: Well, I knew we wouldn't have 30 years of AA at STL with the same level of service that TW had! I figured they'd do it all at once whenever they deci
61 Lambertman: When American acquired TWA, the aviation industry was doing extremely well and American needed a legitimate reliever hub. St. Louis was intended to s
62 Cubsrule: I, for one, think one of RDU and BNA might still be around had MIA not come along. Both have pretty similar fundamentals to CLT.
63 FlyBoy84: Nah...from the VERY MOMENT the announcement was made, I said to family members who were listening that AA will pull out in a few years to concentrate
64 ERJ170: I personally think this statement says it all. STL is not a OneWorld gateway. RDU is not a OneWorld gateway. BOS is not. DCA is not. There are basica
65 BMI727: Except that the runway construction began in 1998 and the need was obvious well before that, saying that the new runway was a folly because of the AA
66 FlyBoy84: @BMI727, yeah you're right about the runway part! My whole thing here has been more the knowledge that AA would eventually pull back the way they've d
67 Cubsrule: Hasn't that been self-evident from the day AA arrived? STL has never had service to DEL or PVG. I guess I don't understand your point.
68 777STL: It seem the decision on the cargo hub is imminent, before the end of the month. I'm still skeptical although the commission seems to be very optimisti
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