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OAG Changes 12/17/2010:AA/AM/AS/CO/DL/F9/FL/UA/US  
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7140 posts, RR: 13
Posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 12367 times:

This compares what is for sale THIS WEEK for the stated period versus what was for sale LAST WEEK...It does NOT compare to last year or now.

How to read:
Flights are daily except as noted "/wk" which means per week.
ABE-MDT 2>10/WK means a reduction from 2 daily flights to 10 flights per week which is about 1.5 flights
ABE-MDT 3>2 APR means a reduction in one roundtrip from 3 to 2 for April only
ABE-MDT 3.8>2.7 APR-JUN This is the raw format of the data which sometimes I'm too lazy to retype. It means that over a month they were averaging a little less than 4 trips per day and now it's a little less than 3 per day. So, basically they cancelled 8 flights per week or so. Airlines are doing A LOT of non-daily ops now, so these fractions are pervasive.
ABE-MDT 4>6 MAY- means an increase from 4 to 6 roundtrips starting in May and continuing
ABE-MDT 4>6 MAY-JUN, 5>6 JUL means the change is only for the stated period May to June and then a different change for July in the same route


AA
JFK-ORD 3>2 JUN-
MIA-ORF 3>2 APR-
ORD-IND 7>8 APR-

AM
IAH-MTY 2>0 MAR-
LAS-MTY 1>2/WK MAR-
LAX-MEX 5>4 MAR-MAY
ORD-MEX 3>2 JAN-
SAT-MEX 1>2 JAN-

AS
GEG-SJC 1>0 JUN-
GEG-SMF 1>0 JUN-
SJC-SMF 2>1 JUN-

CO
ANC-DEN 0>1 JUN- XFER FROM UA
ANC-ORD 0>1 JUN- XFER
ANC-SFO 0>1 JUN- XFER
Technically these were never loaded under the UA code for 2011, but by tradition they are XFERs from UA.

CLE-FNT 3>4 APR-
CLE-MCO 4>3 APR
CLE-MHT 4>3 APR
CLE-RSW 3>2 APR
EYW-TPA 5>4 JAN-
FLL-TPA 1>0 JAN-
IAH-HOB 2>0 MAR-JUN START DELAYED

UA
Interesting to see OO (at risk) pull back in AS/QX markets as they are rumored to be in talks with QX about CR7s and maybe buying the whole operation.

CWA-EAU 1>0 APR-
DEN-IAH 3>4 MAR-
GEG-SEA 3>0 FEB-
IPL-LAX 1>2 FEB-
IPL-YUM 1>0 FEB-
LAX-CLD 6>7 MAR-
LAX-SGU 0>1 MAR-
MFR-PDX 3>0 FEB-
ORD-AVP 2>3 APR-
RDD-SFO 4>5 FEB-

DL
ATL-ATH 1>0 MAY-JUN; 1>2/WK JUN-
ATL-MTY 1>2 MAY-
ATL-MXP 5/WK>1 APR-JUN
ATL-PRG 5/WK>4/WK JUN-
ATL-SJD 5/WK>1 JUN-
ATL-SVO 5/WK>4/WK APR-
ATL-TLV 1>4/WK APR-
ATL-VCE 5/WK MAY START DELAYED
DTW-FCO 1>0 MAY START DELAYED
JFK-FCO 2>1 MAY
JFK-KBP 5/WK>1 MAY
JFK-PSA 1>5/WK JUN-
JFK-PVR 1/WK>0 MAY-
LGA-SAV 4>3 APR-

F9
MKE-BKG 2/WK>0 APR-MAY; 3/WK>2/WK JUN-
Looks like performance must be similar to FL's attempt.

FL
ATL-BDA 0>1 MAY-
BWI-BDA 0>1 APR-


US
DCA-ILM 0>2/WK MAR-
LIH-PHX 8/WK>1 MAR-JUN
PHX-RNO 5>6 APR-

66 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3070 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 12214 times:

Thanks for doing this, as always. Actually, I believe the SJC/SMF-GEG flights are discontinued on January 5 not June. They are flown by QX not AS.

User currently offlineWA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2222 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 12127 times:

I don't know if this has been discussed before, but is DL's MSP-PSP nonstop coming back this year? I checked a couple of dates on Delta.com, and did not see the nonstop.


Seaholm Maples are #1!
User currently offlinedrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5174 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 12045 times:

Interesting to see AM pull out of IAH-MTY - I guess Vivaaerobus is getting a little foothold in the market - plus I believe CO/UA is going to place the Q400 on the run.

Nice to see UA/CO getting some narrowbody usage - I wonder what else is in store for IAH though.



Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlineFlyingSicilian From Italy, joined Mar 2009, 1324 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 11944 times:

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 3):
Interesting to see AM pull out of IAH-MTY - I guess Vivaaerobus is getting a little foothold in the market - plus I believe CO/UA is going to place the Q400 on the run.

Nice to see UA/CO getting some narrowbody usage - I wonder what else is in store for IAH though.

I've also read the uptick in violence in MTY has really affected this route (and Viva as you posted).
This used to be a much heavier route. Heck, there are even more buses on this route that go from DT Houston to MTY multiple times daily. MTY was/is a great place with many ties to Houston, I hope it picks up sometime.

Why the delay in Hobbs,NM?



“Without seeing Sicily it is impossible to understand Italy.Sicily is the key of everything.”-Goethe "Journey to Italy"
User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6752 posts, RR: 32
Reply 5, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 11935 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
CLE-FNT 3>4 APR-
CLE-MCO 4>3 APR
CLE-MHT 4>3 APR
CLE-RSW 3>2 APR

So, which hub gets the axe first -- CLE or CVG? The only increase here is on an at-risk (Commutair) route.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
JFK-KBP 5/WK>1 MAY

I didn't realize the rights existed under the bilateral for this to go daily.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
Interesting to see OO (at risk) pull back in AS/QX markets as they are rumored to be in talks with QX about CR7s and maybe buying the whole operation.

Maybe it's that, but we also know that the Brasilias are going away, and they're most likely to pull the non-hub (DEN/LAX/SFO/SLC) flying first. Those may just have been the weakest links in this round. I do not see OO flying PDX-EUG/MFR/OTH/LMT/RDM with CRJ's unless there's some sort of subsidy involved.


User currently offlineclemsonaj From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 269 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 11916 times:

Do you know what days the DL ATL-TLV will be running? Thx.

User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 11883 times:

Quoting clemsonaj (Reply 6):
Do you know what days the DL ATL-TLV will be running? Thx.

Is that flight not daily year round?



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlinedeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9353 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 11871 times:

Quoting clemsonaj (Reply 6):
Do you know what days the DL ATL-TLV will be running? Thx.

ATL-TLV Mon, Wed, Fri, Sun.
TLV-ATL Mon, Tue, Thur, Sat.

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 2):

Don't see it at all.



yep.
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7140 posts, RR: 13
Reply 9, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 11729 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 1):
Actually, I believe the SJC/SMF-GEG flights are discontinued on January 5 not June. They are flown by QX not AS.

You misread. That had already happened. When they did that a few weeks ago they had them resume Summer only. This week they also cancelled the Summer only operation as well.

Quoting FlyingSicilian (Reply 4):
I've also read the uptick in violence in MTY has really affected this route

I'm hearing AM will shut MTY as a focus city and move the capacity to MEX. I don't know what else they have out of there, so maybe it's already happened with this load.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 5):
So, which hub gets the axe first -- CLE or CVG?

Good question. It may be CLE.


User currently offlineapodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4263 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 11592 times:

Is it just me, or does US seem to have a love for ILM? Aside from the hub routes, assuming the slot deal had been successful ILM would have been the only LGA route to survive, and plus ILM gets mainline frequency at times during the day. ILM doesn't seem like that big a city to me.

User currently offlinesxf24 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1261 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 11570 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
nteresting to see OO (at risk) pull back in AS/QX markets as they are rumored to be in talks with QX about CR7s and maybe buying the whole operation.

Where has there been a rumor that OO would buy the entire QX operation?


User currently offlinen7371f From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1722 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 11536 times:
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Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 1):
Actually, I believe the SJC/SMF-GEG flights are discontinued on January 5 not June. They are flown by QX not AS.

That's correct. If anything they would bring back to routes for the summer as GEG traffic really takes off.

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 2):
I don't know if this has been discussed before, but is DL's MSP-PSP nonstop coming back this year? I checked a couple of dates on Delta.com, and did not see the nonstop.

Normally I would say I'd be shocked to see it cut but with the dismantling being done at MSP by DL, I guess I couldn't say that if true. Having lived through many winters and springs in the Twin Cities, Palm Springs was a popular escape route - especially for long weekends.


User currently offlinedeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9353 posts, RR: 14
Reply 13, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 11508 times:

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 7):

No, now with the plan of pushing everything via JFK, TLV, PRG, MXP, CPH, ATH and SVO all fly less than daily(most of them seasonal) while JFK sees the likes of daily 333/332/764s on the routes.



yep.
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 14, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 11466 times:

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 13):

Ahhh, thanks a lot Caleb.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlinediverdave From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 331 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 11435 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
LAX-CLD 6>7 MAR-

I forget, when is California Pacific supposed to start operations?

David


User currently offlinehjulicher From Liechtenstein, joined Feb 2005, 876 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 11354 times:

Quoting apodino (Reply 10):
and plus ILM gets mainline frequency at times during the day. ILM doesn't seem like that big a city to me.

ILM is not that large of a city, but there a lot of northeast transplants who have retired there so there is significant wealth on the coast. I assume that this factor is working in US's favor.



LH 442
User currently offlineknope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2899 posts, RR: 30
Reply 17, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 11339 times:

Thanks, as always, for compiling all this stuff...

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
F9
MKE-BKG 2/WK>0 APR-MAY; 3/WK>2/WK JUN-
Looks like performance must be similar to FL's attempt.

Actually quite a bit better when it comes to loads, though AirTran's results set the bar very lowr:

AirTran MKE-BKG-MKE 2009
31.2% May
41.4% June

Frontier MKE-BKG-MKE 2010
60.1% July
73.3% August
71.7% September

Frontier uses smaller aircraft, but also boarded about 48% more passengers per departure, too.

AirTran MKE-BKG-MKE average pax per departure May/June 2009
42.1

Frontier MKE-BKG-MKE average pax per departure July/August/September 2010
62.3

Of course this doesn't tell us about fare or traffic composition, nor does it address whatever Branson is doing to sweeten the deal.

While I was messing around with T100 stats, I pulled together the onboard loads for all the Branson 2010 service through September, plus AirTran's results for last year.


AirTran 2009 Branson load factors by month

Month.......LF...............City
05 …….. 64.2% …….. ATL
06 …….. 78.5% …….. ATL
07 …….. 69.5% …….. ATL
08 …….. 62.9% …….. ATL
09 …….. 67.8% …….. ATL
10 …….. 74.2% …….. ATL
11 …….. 66.1% …….. ATL
12 …….. 77.2% …….. ATL

12 …….. 67.4% …….. MCO

05 …….. 31.2% …….. MKE
06 …….. 41.4% …….. MKE


AirTran 2010 Branson load factors by month

Month.......LF.............City
1 …….. 53.6% …….. ATL
2 …….. 55.5% …….. ATL
3 …….. 71.7% …….. ATL
4 …….. 68.7% …….. ATL
5 …….. 83.3% …….. ATL
6 …….. 78.5% …….. ATL
7 …….. 83.5% …….. ATL
8 …….. 80.1% …….. ATL
9 …….. 79.3% …….. ATL

1 …….. 44.1% …….. MCO
2 …….. 49.5% …….. MCO
3 …….. 74.5% …….. MCO
4 …….. 60.8% …….. MCO
5 …….. 81.6% …….. MCO
6 …….. 81.0% …….. MCO
7 …….. 73.3% …….. MCO
8 …….. 49.8% …….. MCO
9 …….. 53.2% …….. MCO


Frontier 2010 Branson load factors by month

Month.......LF.............City
4 …….. 86.0% …….. DEN
5 …….. 92.6% …….. DEN
6 …….. 93.8% …….. DEN
7 …….. 89.5% …….. DEN
8 …….. 84.7% …….. DEN
9 …….. 91.8% …….. DEN

7 …….. 60.1% …….. MKE
8 …….. 73.3% …….. MKE
9 …….. 71.7% …….. MKE


ExpressJet 2010 Branson load factors by month

Month.......LF.............City
5 …….. 59.3% …….. AUS
6 …….. 65.1% …….. AUS
7 …….. 61.2% …….. AUS
8 …….. 33.5% …….. AUS
9 …….. 37.1% …….. AUS

5 …….. 31.1% …….. BNA
6 …….. 37.3% …….. BNA
7 …….. 36.9% …….. BNA
8 …….. 24.1% …….. BNA
9 …….. 15.5% …….. BNA

5 …….. 51.5% …….. DSM
6 …….. 48.2% …….. DSM
7 …….. 45.3% …….. DSM
8 …….. 28.7% …….. DSM
9 …….. 22.9% …….. DSM

5 …….. 55.3% …….. GPT
6 …….. 56.8% …….. GPT
7 …….. 50.2% …….. GPT
8 …….. 39.9% …….. GPT
9 …….. 41.4% …….. GPT

5 …….. 62.0% …….. HOU
6 …….. 61.5% …….. HOU
7 …….. 68.7% …….. HOU
8 …….. 41.5% …….. HOU
9 …….. 28.9% …….. HOU

9 …….. 17.2% …….. IND

9 …….. 22.8% …….. MDW

5 …….. 29.4% …….. SHV
6 …….. 45.1% …….. SHV
7 …….. 36.8% …….. SHV
8 …….. 28.7% …….. SHV
9 …….. 12.6% …….. SHV


User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3444 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 11271 times:

Quoting ScottB (Reply 5):
I do not see OO flying PDX-EUG/MFR/OTH/LMT/RDM with CRJ's unless there's some sort of subsidy involved.

I have often wondered the future of those flights. I would have to guess they will end? A CRJ would be too large and too expensive i would think to PDX for those cities?


User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7140 posts, RR: 13
Reply 19, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 10007 times:

Quoting apodino (Reply 10):
Is it just me, or does US seem to have a love for ILM?

There is probably money being offered by ILM.

Quoting sxf24 (Reply 11):
Where has there been a rumor that OO would buy the entire QX operation?

There was a thread here about AS selling QX when it goes to all cost+ operation (which is next month). There were quotes from the CEO saying they would consider a sale. OO was rumored as the likely buyer.

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 13):
No, now with the plan of pushing everything via JFK, TLV, PRG, MXP, CPH, ATH and SVO all fly less than daily(most of them seasonal) while JFK sees the likes of daily 333/332/764s on the routes.

It seemed like they basically pulled a widebody from ATL-Transatlantic...or most of one. I get the impression ATL-Transatlantic is down YOY for 2011. I should check it.

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 17):
Thanks, as always, for compiling all this stuff...

 
Quoting knope2001 (Reply 17):
Of course this doesn't tell us about fare or traffic composition, nor does it address whatever Branson is doing to sweeten the deal.

Since the LFs are 20 points worse than DEN and the market is nearly 100% leisure I would expect Branson is paying out a nice subsidy on MKE. That's probably why it is being cut back. Writing those big checks will give you cramps after a while.  


User currently offlinesxf24 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1261 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 9942 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 19):
There was a thread here about AS selling QX when it goes to all cost+ operation (which is next month). There were quotes from the CEO saying they would consider a sale. OO was rumored as the likely buyer.

I'm not aware of any quotes to that affect. Do you have a link?


User currently onlineizbtmnhd From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 267 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 9911 times:

Quoting ScottB (Reply 5):

Aren't summer reductions to Florida normal? If so, that leaves one less MHT flight.

Again, the immature "excitement" of people possibly losing their jobs en masse is what may have clouded an indepth reading of tea leaves. 


User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 9803 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
CO
ANC-DEN 0>1 JUN- XFER FROM UA
ANC-ORD 0>1 JUN- XFER
ANC-SFO 0>1 JUN- XFER
Technically these were never loaded under the UA code for 2011, but by tradition they are XFERs from UA.

what's a XFER again? it's coded as a direct flight but still route through SEA/PDX ?

i thought old UA doesn't fly to Alaska at all ?


User currently offlineknope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2899 posts, RR: 30
Reply 23, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 9623 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 19):

Since the LFs are 20 points worse than DEN and the market is nearly 100% leisure I would expect Branson is paying out a nice subsidy on MKE. That's probably why it is being cut back. Writing those big checks will give you cramps after a while.

I would guess so. I don't know the details of how BKG works it, but among other things I think that at Branson the ground staffing and landing fees are gratis, so that cuts cost. But when the rest of the F9* system is running a system average of 85-90% and MKE-BKG is running 70-75%, that's a notable gap.

I play with the T100's a lot but don't often post that info here because load factor can be so misleading and people read way too much into them. But I thought they were at least somewhat interesting for Branson. That's because (1) it's an unproven market and some doubted the airlines would get anybody to fly there, and (2) the finanical incentives BKG provides mess up any conventional sense of profit or loss anyway, something people try to derrive too much from raw load factors.







[Edited 2010-12-16 14:29:55]

User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5939 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 9572 times:

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 22):
what's a XFER again? it's coded as a direct flight but still route through SEA/PDX ?

i thought old UA doesn't fly to Alaska at all ?

UA brought back some seasonal service to ANC last year...it looks like PMCO metal will be flying it for UA this year. The flights will be nonstop from DEN/ORD/SFO to ANC.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
25 jetskipper : What aircraft will be flown on the UA Alaska routes?
26 drerx7 : The versatile 738
27 enilria : I tried to find the thread, but the search on here is awful. It was 90+ days ago and it was about QX going to cost+. Right at the beginning there was
28 izbtmnhd : You didn't address my primary point: Isn't reduction of Florida service in the summer 'normal' from a place like CLE?
29 Post contains links rgreenftm : Horizon Air Goes All CPA, To Drop Branded Flying (by LAXintl Aug 16 2010 in Civil Aviation) Is that the thread in question? Gotta love BING Search en
30 ScottB : To RSW, SRQ and PBI, yes. To MCO, not so much. The Orlando-area theme parks are busy in the summer since the kiddies are on vacation. Moreover, summe
31 CODC10 : You're making a lot of assumptions here...
32 PacificClipper : I can't recall what UA metal flew that last season which means there should be some follow on updates for the UA jets that would have otherwise been
33 smoot4208 : Probably not actually. US does quite well in ILM. The route is being flown on Sat/Sun (taking advantage of a leisure market on days where business tr
34 Airport : To clarify, if QX cannot reach the targeted return on investment goals, and if the Air Group cannot work the 737s on certain routes that CRJ-700s run
35 Post contains links and images enilria : Yes and it is usually in sync with an increase in East-West flying. They haven't filed any increases as of now. Again, Smisek's comments of a few wee
36 Airport : I don't disagree that the CRJ-700s will likely go to SkyWest... they probably will. But there's no factual basis behind "AS or QX were in talks with
37 fun2fly : Funny to read all the buzz about CLE closing. I hope you understand that shifting 3 flights does not mean the hub will close. More imporantly, CO nee
38 Post contains images enilria : Pretty much all the legacies want out of the cost+ regional business, just ask Republic (that's why they bought F9). I don't even think Republic want
39 sxf24 : I'm not sure you understand the what it means for QX to "transition to cost plus." Its mostly a change in internal processes and accounting, not so m
40 AVLAirlineFreq : Amen to that. DCA/IAD is a much-desired route here in AVL.
41 smoot4208 : I could be wrong but I doubt the airport/city threw money at a Sat/Sun only service. If it was daily them maybe. G4 on the other hand even though onl
42 izbtmnhd : So are E-W and N-S typically done in one update? I see you inferring alot from Smisek said but again there's no evidence that CLE lost money for seve
43 ScottB : You realize that the agreement for X amount of service for two years was something of an empty concession? They're not going to make wholesale change
44 Post contains links and images enilria : I bet they did. Allegiant isn't even daily! Yes, in most cases it was simulataneous...but this year they are merging so who knows. Except that he sai
45 mogandoCI : Most states (or regions) only have 1 major city to hub at Problem with Ohio is that the population is spread out, there are multiple medium sized cit
46 Airport : Wrong. By consolidating management it eliminates much of the unnecessary duplication between AS and QX and greatly streamlines and makes the business
47 enilria : Great points. Outside DTW and ORD that have large populations, the other possible hub locations are all kind of equal in terms of O&D traffic rel
48 izbtmnhd : Sorry for the delay in my posts, I've been off for the Holidays! I read the comment and everyone's comments on this board who are trying to read into
49 Cubsrule : But when you add up those populations, you get Chicago, which is all in one place. Compared to Illinois, the population is quite diffuse.
50 FlyPNS1 : CO's hub at CLE is NOT 75% O&D. The bigger threat to CLE now is rising fuel prices. With oil approaching $100/barrel, a hub that relies heavily o
51 enilria : I guess you can choose to read it differently, but he very clearly says that recent performance is not sufficient for the hub to stay open. I don't t
52 Post contains images kgaiflyer : Waiting for my OO flight in CLD last September, I listened to locals gush about not having to drive down to SAN in horrendous traffic. Also, the tri-
53 Post contains links izbtmnhd : Yes, CLE's O&D is 75% and has been for several years. Links below: http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Fitch+...+System+Revs+'A'%3B...-a0153993305 (FY2
54 FlyPNS1 : And if you do the math, this works out to CO's CLE hub being about 50/50 for O&D versus connecting. In my post I specifically said CO's hub at CL
55 enilria : I agree that is not the same thing. I didn't think we were talking about CLE losing all of its air service. Weren't we just talking about the hub goi
56 enilria : I wasted my morning calculating the real numbers for you...It took that long to combine all the appropriate regionals under their parent carrier. Thi
57 izbtmnhd : If CLE has 75% O&D and CO has a 50% total share and all other carriers were 100% O&D then CO would have 50% O&D. Yet CO has a 60-65% shar
58 FlyPNS1 : Sorry, but I'm going to go with Enilria's numbers and say that CO gets about 50% O&D for the CLE hub. He's using real data, you are just making g
59 izbtmnhd : Considering Fitch has to set the Bond Rating for the airport I don't think they are making the numbers up and certainly I don't think they're using "
60 Cubsrule : ...and it's a similar story in STL. There, they've gained 5 or 10 WN flights, a single UA flight (to SFO), about 10 DL flgihts with 3 new destination
61 FlyPNS1 : They don't make up numbers, but nowhere in the numbers you posted says that CO at CLE gets 60-70% O&D. The Fitch report makes no such statement.
62 Post contains links and images enilria : DOT shows it is basically zero connecting/through for them. No 4.4 million 12 months ended September 2010. Here is an FAA document that confirms that
63 Post contains images izbtmnhd : Oh lawd. Really? I posted a link to a very reputable source. You said "do the math". I did. I have no direct access to this "real data". You can beli
64 izbtmnhd : Very interesting. So Fitch's information is wrong. I have a few friends that actually work there. I'll forward this information to them. If they're b
65 enilria : As I said it's more likely the airport people simply don't know how to calculate % local from govt data ("yokels") rather than an overt attempt to de
66 Post contains links and images izbtmnhd : Enrilia I was being a bit sarcastic. I'm sorry about that. I would never bother them with this stuff. I will say this, I'll stick to Fitch's info. I
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