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JFK Disable Aircraft On Runway?  
User currently offlineBP1 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 593 posts, RR: 1
Posted (4 years 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 8004 times:

FAA.GOV is reporting delays at JFK for

"Due to disabled aircraft - gate holds of 16 minutes and increasing."

What is going on at JFK today 12.17.2010 1545 Eastern Standard Time

Thanks,
BP1


"First To Fly The A-380" / 26 October 2007 SYD-SIN Inaugural
22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineMadDogJT8D From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 402 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (4 years 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7958 times:

Was listening to the JFK Live ATC during this incident. It was ASQ7097 a CR2. The aircraft had an indication that the nose gear did not come down properly and had to do a fly-by over 31L before attempting a full-stop landing. Aircraft landed safely on 31L but had to be towed off of the runway, so it was closed for 20-30 minutes. With the afternoon arrivals push starting on 31R and 31L closed, it doesn't surprise me that a gate hold was started.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/ASQ7097


User currently offlinejayhup From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 452 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 7533 times:

Was on UA526 LAX-JFK right behind the ASA flight listening to Channel 9.

Whoever in the cockpit that was on the radio wasn't nervous at all.

The good news was that they expedited our arrival so that we wouldn't get stuck in case anything happened.


User currently offlineGrid From Kazakhstan, joined Apr 2010, 624 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 7480 times:

What is a full-stop landing (as opposed to normal landings)?


ATR72 E120 E140 E170 E190 Q200 717 727 737 747 757 767 777 A319 A320 A321 A330 A340 MD11 MD82 MD83 MD88 MD90
User currently offline413X3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1983 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 7418 times:

No reason to be nervous, a simple maneuver to get her on the ground.

User currently offlinedavescj From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 2307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 1 week 3 days ago) and read 7270 times:

Quoting MadDogJT8D (Reply 1):
Aircraft landed safely on 31L but had to be towed off of the runway, so it was closed for 20-30 minutes.

Why would it take so long? Surely the knew the aircraft had to be towed and a tow tug was waiting for them?

Dave



Can I have a mojito on this flight?
User currently onlinekanban From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 3873 posts, RR: 27
Reply 6, posted (4 years 1 week 3 days ago) and read 7214 times:
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Quoting Grid (Reply 3):
What is a full-stop landing (as opposed to normal landings)?


I suspect that normal landings continue to taxi to the gate when slowed down sufficiently to make the corners, and a full stop in this case implies they stopped on the runway itself.

Quoting davescj (Reply 5):
Why would it take so long?


the Flight crew might have been calm, but they had to wait for some passengers to vacate the heads before towing...   


User currently offlineGrid From Kazakhstan, joined Apr 2010, 624 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 1 week 3 days ago) and read 7148 times:

Quoting kanban (Reply 6):
I suspect that normal landings continue to taxi to the gate when slowed down sufficiently to make the corners, and a full stop in this case implies they stopped on the runway itself.

Does it stop and all systems are shutdown?



ATR72 E120 E140 E170 E190 Q200 717 727 737 747 757 767 777 A319 A320 A321 A330 A340 MD11 MD82 MD83 MD88 MD90
User currently offlinezeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9240 posts, RR: 76
Reply 8, posted (4 years 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 7117 times:

Quoting MadDogJT8D (Reply 1):
The aircraft had an indication that the nose gear did not come down properly and had to do a fly-by over 31L before attempting a full-stop landing.

What does a "fly-by" achieve ? you cannot tell from the ground if the gear is down locked, it may give the appearance that it is when it is not.

Quoting Grid (Reply 7):
Does it stop and all systems are shutdown?

Depends, the idea is not to put any additional sideways loads onto the gear until the gear pins are in place.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlinebayareablue From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 262 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 7008 times:

Quoting Grid (Reply 3):
What is a full-stop landing (as opposed to normal landings)?

Normal landings have you land, slow down but while still in a forward motion have you exit the runway onto the taxiway. A full stop landing is where after landing, you stop on the runway (ie. no turnoff to the taxiway).

Quoting zeke (Reply 8):
What does a "fly-by" achieve ? you cannot tell from the ground if the gear is down locked, it may give the appearance that it is when it is not.

Fly-bys are requested by pilots if they feel they need another pair of eyes to check something they cannot see from inside but the instruments are saying something different. Will typically occur close to the tower so they can see and report back.


User currently offlinelofty From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2008, 323 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 6298 times:

One of the other problems with a nose wheel issue is the type of tug that can be used. With some problems a TBL is preferred and with others a Conventional. Until the tow crew check which type do you send, I have had this problem before we are blocking a runway and have had to get a Convebtional tug sent out as the TBL we sent would not work.

User currently onlinekanban From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 3873 posts, RR: 27
Reply 11, posted (4 years 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6098 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting lofty (Reply 10):
One of the other problems with a nose wheel issue is the type of tug that can be used. With some problems a TBL is preferred and with others a Conventional. Until the tow crew check which type do you send, I have had this problem before we are blocking a runway and have had to get a Convebtional tug sent out as the TBL we sent would not work.



dang... knowledge and common sense takes all the conspiracy theory and endless hypothesising out of a good thread...


User currently offlinecvg2lga From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 635 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5455 times:

Quoting lofty (Reply 10):



I can't speak for the tugs at JFK but the conventional tugs we used at CVG were slower than Christmas to a 5 year old, even when driving from one gate to another. By default though so nobody could speedrace the CRJ's backwards. I could see one of our tugs taking 16 minutes just to reach an aircraft at JFK lol.

Tchau

DA=



They don't call em' emergencies anymore. They call em' Patronies.
User currently offlineYXwatcherMKE From United States of America, joined May 2007, 1025 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (4 years 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4871 times:

You know with the days of micro cameras for watching all sorts things why can't they mount a few cameras in the landing gear bays so that when a light fails to light or any other problem is reported the flight crew can use the cameras to check out the problem vs. a fly bye. I've installed severance cameras systems and they weight as little as 2 oz. and the wires are next to nothing too. It just make scene to me that it would would eliminate declaring so many false emergencies to me. A system could be installed to the a/c that would have three cameras in each bay and the monitor could be anywhere on the flight deck. I Bet it would cost less than $100.00US plus the installation cost to each a/c, but I bet they won't do it because it would be to costly to the airlines. But I bet if the FAA started fining airlines if the a/c was inspected and learned it was a false alarm, the airlines would suddenly be installing them in a hurry. For that matter cameras could be installed in all sort of locations on the plane. If the a/c Manufacturers would start installing them as the a/c is being built the cost would be even less.


I miss the 60's & 70's when you felt like a guest on the plane not cattle like today
User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3217 posts, RR: 16
Reply 14, posted (4 years 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4489 times:

Quoting YXwatcherMKE (Reply 13):
But I bet if the FAA started fining airlines if the a/c was inspected and learned it was a false alarm, the airlines would suddenly be installing them in a hurry.

Yes, the FAA *should* start fining airlines, and crews, for erring on the side of caution.

I mean, I also agree that "it's probably okay" is the best course of action to take when the alternative is a fine!!  


User currently offlineas739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6200 posts, RR: 24
Reply 15, posted (4 years 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4303 times:

Which type of CRJ was it? -200?


"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlinekl911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5305 posts, RR: 16
Reply 16, posted (4 years 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4019 times:

Quoting as739x (Reply 15):
Which type of CRJ was it? -200?
Quoting MadDogJT8D (Reply 1):
It was ASQ7097 a CR2


User currently offlineJBirdAV8r From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 4491 posts, RR: 21
Reply 17, posted (4 years 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3969 times:

Quoting zeke (Reply 8):
What does a "fly-by" achieve ? you cannot tell from the ground if the gear is down locked, it may give the appearance that it is when it is not.

Well yes, obviously, but that's not the only reason to do a fly by. The gear might be in another non-normal configuration you'd want to know about. I don't see the point in being contrarian about this. It takes very little time to do a fly-by and it's not an absolute priority to get the airplane on the ground ASAP.



I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (4 years 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3816 times:

Quoting YXwatcherMKE (Reply 13):
You know with the days of micro cameras for watching all sorts things why can't they mount a few cameras in the landing gear bays so that when a light fails to light or any other problem is reported the flight crew can use the cameras to check out the problem vs. a fly bye. I've installed severance cameras systems and they weight as little as 2 oz. and the wires are next to nothing too. It just make scene to me that it would would eliminate declaring so many false emergencies to me. A system could be installed to the a/c that would have three cameras in each bay and the monitor could be anywhere on the flight deck. I Bet it would cost less than $100.00US plus the installation cost to each a/c, but I bet they won't do it because it would be to costly to the airlines. But I bet if the FAA started fining airlines if the a/c was inspected and learned it was a false alarm, the airlines would suddenly be installing them in a hurry. For that matter cameras could be installed in all sort of locations on the plane. If the a/c Manufacturers would start installing them as the a/c is being built the cost would be even less.


The airlines can't change a roll of toilet paper for $100.

Someone else in another thread suggested cameras so the crew could keep track of the engines. Next time an airliner make no slat or no flap landing someone will want cameras on them. Where do you stop?


User currently offlinelofty From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2008, 323 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3583 times:

Thought the B777-300 has nose wheel camera

User currently offlineGrid From Kazakhstan, joined Apr 2010, 624 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3543 times:

Quoting 474218 (Reply 18):
Where do you stop?

Probably once all the critical flight components are covered. However you might want cameras watching the cameras to make sure a terrorist hasn't messed up part of the plane was put a photograph in front of the the camera that watches that part.

Quoting zeke (Reply 8):
What does a "fly-by" achieve ?

If you do it fast enough it, it causes the Air Boss to spill his coffee.



ATR72 E120 E140 E170 E190 Q200 717 727 737 747 757 767 777 A319 A320 A321 A330 A340 MD11 MD82 MD83 MD88 MD90
User currently offlinezeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9240 posts, RR: 76
Reply 21, posted (4 years 1 week 2 days ago) and read 3432 times:

Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 17):

Well yes, obviously, but that's not the only reason to do a fly by. The gear might be in another non-normal configuration you'd want to know about. I don't see the point in being contrarian about this. It takes very little time to do a fly-by and it's not an absolute priority to get the airplane on the ground ASAP.

Most of the larger airlines these days give specific guidance to crews not to conduct fly-bys, the reasons for this has been discussed before "Gear Unsafe" Procedure (by kaitak Nov 5 2010 in Tech Ops)

Crews should treat any indication/warning as real, and prepare for that using the established checklists.

Tower controllers are no more qualified than spotters at airports to determine if a gear is safe or unsafe, something that looks safe from the air may collapse once on the ground. i.e.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vbWs2Moqzw



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineAesma From Reunion, joined Nov 2009, 6961 posts, RR: 12
Reply 22, posted (4 years 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2827 times:

And what about that one, seen from the inside : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYDMor6kUNk


New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
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