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AA Suspends Reservations On New LAX-PVG Route?  
User currently offlineDL747400 From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 325 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 18039 times:

Searched for this, but didn't see it covered elsewhere on this site.

Does anyone know why AA has stopped accepting reservations on their new LAX-PVG route before they've even inaugurated service?

http://airlineroute.net/2010/12/18/aa-laxpvg-update/

48 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4983 posts, RR: 51
Reply 1, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 17939 times:

Difficulty getting slots perhaps?

User currently offlineTWA902fly From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 3128 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 17792 times:

Or maybe given their higher costs and the idea of competing with UA and China Eastern, they're not so sure about the route. (And from what I understand, LAX-China isn't very high yield due to all the VFR traffic. - correct me if I am wrong.)

'902



life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
User currently offlineqqflyboy From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 2283 posts, RR: 13
Reply 3, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 16713 times:

It's still listed in SABRE,, but not bookable. Interesting. Hopefully we'll learn more soon.


The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25512 posts, RR: 50
Reply 4, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 15700 times:

Yeah this flight has been zero'd out for atleast two weeks now (first reported December 3rd).


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineAADC10 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2092 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 15625 times:

All signs AA is planning to delay starting the route.

User currently offlinerealsim From Spain, joined Apr 2010, 646 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 15518 times:

Could this be because of the application that AA submitted on DEC13 to continue the codeshare with MU?

http://www.regulations.gov/contentSt...osition=attachment&contentType=pdf


User currently offlineNewYorkCityBoi From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 193 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 14676 times:

I know something like this will happen.... look at ORD-PEK.... how hard it is to finally come to reality!

User currently offlineMarcoPoloWorld From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 639 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 14634 times:

Sorry to say this, but if the asian carriers are superior in almost every aspect of service delivery and quality (and they are), why should the US carriers even bother flying these routes with their own metal if they can codeshare with their asian partner carriers?

User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 14437 times:

Quoting MarcoPoloWorld (Reply 8):
Sorry to say this, but if the asian carriers are superior in almost every aspect of service delivery and quality (and they are), why should the US carriers even bother flying these routes with their own metal if they can codeshare with their asian partner carriers?

except in this scenario, the competition is MU, a bottom feeder by Asian service standards


User currently offlinekaitak744 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2379 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 13219 times:

Quoting MarcoPoloWorld (Reply 8):
Sorry to say this, but if the asian carriers are superior in almost every aspect of service delivery and quality (and they are), why should the US carriers even bother flying these routes with their own metal if they can codeshare with their asian partner carriers?

Your logic makes no sense. There are more US carrier flights across the pacific than there are Asian carrier flights.

Also, China Eastern does not have better service than American, without a doubt.


User currently offlinecyberual From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 177 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 12586 times:

wonder if UA will delay the route too. I hope not.

User currently offlineAABB777 From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 565 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 11989 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 5):
All signs AA is planning to delay starting the route.

I believe the flight is currently not bookable because the slots have not been fully approved by the CAAC, and AA is now waiting on final approval before they continue selling the flight. I could be wrong, but I don't believe AA plans on delaying the start date.


User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 11878 times:

Quoting kaitak744 (Reply 10):
Your logic makes no sense. There are more US carrier flights across the pacific than there are Asian carrier flights.

US carriers are still too NRT oriented. If u compare US to non-NRT Asian destinations nonstop, Asian carriers offer just as much, if not more, service

example : before this whole PVG thing, not a single US carrier offer LAX-Asia nonstop other than NRT (the HKG-LAX thing was canned years ago), but meanwhile, you can fly ICN-LAX,HKG-LAX,PEK-LAX,PVG-LAX,BKK-LAX,SIN-LAX, and TPE-LAX on Asian carriers (i might even be missing a few)


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23059 posts, RR: 20
Reply 14, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 11805 times:

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 13):
example : before this whole PVG thing, not a single US carrier offer LAX-Asia nonstop other than NRT (the HKG-LAX thing was canned years ago), but meanwhile, you can fly ICN-LAX,HKG-LAX,PEK-LAX,PVG-LAX,BKK-LAX,SIN-LAX, and TPE-LAX on Asian carriers (i might even be missing a few)

That's hardly a fair comparison, though. How does CX's hub at HKG, for instance, compare with UA or AA's "hubs" at LAX?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineGrid From Kazakhstan, joined Apr 2010, 624 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 11559 times:

Quoting MarcoPoloWorld (Reply 8):
Sorry to say this, but if the asian carriers are superior in almost every aspect of service delivery and quality (and they are), why should the US carriers even bother flying these routes with their own metal if they can codeshare with their asian partner carriers?

Because the Asian carriers are better but the Chinese carriers are not. Asian carriers are usually better, but that is because Asiana, Singapore, Korean Air bring the average up. The Chinese carriers (China Eastern, China Southern, and Air China) are not better. Hainan probably is but I can't provide firsthand knowledge.



ATR72 E120 E140 E170 E190 Q200 717 727 737 747 757 767 777 A319 A320 A321 A330 A340 MD11 MD82 MD83 MD88 MD90
User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 11179 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 14):
Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 13):
example : before this whole PVG thing, not a single US carrier offer LAX-Asia nonstop other than NRT (the HKG-LAX thing was canned years ago), but meanwhile, you can fly ICN-LAX,HKG-LAX,PEK-LAX,PVG-LAX,BKK-LAX,SIN-LAX, and TPE-LAX on Asian carriers (i might even be missing a few)

That's hardly a fair comparison, though. How does CX's hub at HKG, for instance, compare with UA or AA's "hubs" at LAX?

for one thing - UA, DL and AA all love to call LA a hub, or at least a major focus city, even though the TPAC and TATL offerings on any of the carriers are seriously lacking

the original post was about how US carriers offer sooooo much more TPAC service compared to Asian carriers, and my point was that it's rather balanced outside of DL's NRT floodgates

KE alone offers ATL, ORD, DFW, LAS, LAX, JFK, SFO, SEA, IAD
SQ offers LAX, EWR (plus one-stops to SFO, JFK and IAH)
CI even offers passenger service to ANC

when you exclude NRT or Hawaii, i think i can only count like 6 or 7 nonstop Asia-US routes on Delta. That's not really "a lot".

US carriers having multiple hubs is not an excuse not to have a strategy (i'm looking at you AA). You can either have TPAC/TATL gateways (like UA@SFO or CO@EWR), or you can have a foreign scissor hub (like DL@NRT and DL@AMS), but you still need a strategy.


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8824 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 10847 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 16):
US carriers having multiple hubs is not an excuse not to have a strategy (i'm looking at you AA). You can either have TPAC/TATL gateways (like UA@SFO or CO@EWR), or you can have a foreign scissor hub (like DL@NRT and DL@AMS), but you still need a strategy.

According to AMR's President Tom Horton, AA is focused on, "Service that delights passengers", alongside joint business agreements with other oneworld carriers.

For example, the "$7 billion joint venture with British Airways, launched in October, could have the farthest-reaching consequences. With Spain's Iberia, recently acquired by the U.K.-based carrier, the Oneworld partners plan to jointly schedule and share profits on 5,200 flights, netting more than $500 million annually by 2012. American is set to begin a similar northern Pacific partnership with Japan Air Lines next year, and it is exploring closer ties with Australia's Qantas Airways Ltd. and Chile's LAN Airlines, all Oneworld partners, said Horton."

AA plans to leverage, "The drawing power" that AA and oneworld will have "In selling corporate travelers a network with glittering assets in nearly all of the world's largest business markets: London, New York, Los Angeles, Tokyo, Hong Kong and Chicago."
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...rlines-domestic-terminal-flights/4


User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 10612 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 17):

According to AMR's President Tom Horton, AA is focused on, "Service that delights passengers", alongside joint business agreements with other oneworld carriers.

that's another way to say "we can't put out a competitive offering, so we rely on our superior partners to do the heavy lifting while we claim credit"

And nothing like a 2-3-2 slanted sliding seat "service that delights passengers" despite multiple full-flat-bed offerings on LHR-JFK (CO, VS, DL, BA)

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 17):
world's largest business markets: London, New York, Los Angeles, Tokyo, Hong Kong and Chicago."

AA is only #3/4 in NYC, so-so in LA, JAL weakened significantly at NRT, and AA is a perpetual second-class-citizen in Chicago. AA doesn't even touch HKG even its own metal. It seems that the only place AA truly dominates is its JFK-LHR duopoly with BA.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23059 posts, RR: 20
Reply 19, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 10160 times:

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 16):
the original post was about how US carriers offer sooooo much more TPAC service compared to Asian carriers, and my point was that it's rather balanced outside of DL's NRT floodgates

I'd agree - I just don't think LAX is the right place to make the comparison.

And to draw perhaps a fairer comparison, how many Asian and US carrier routes do not involve the west coast or NRT?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 10078 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 19):


And to draw perhaps a fairer comparison, how many Asian and US carrier routes do not involve the west coast or NRT?

UA (4) : ORD-HKG/PEK/PVG, IAD-PEK
CO (3) : EWR-HKG/PEK/PVG
---------------------------
New UA (7)
---------------------------
DL (7) : DTW-ICN/PVG/HKG/NGO , ATL-PVG, SEA-PEK/KIX
AA (0) : None
US (0) : None

I don't have a comprehensive list for the Asian carriers A.T.M.


User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 10079 times:

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 20):
DL (7) : DTW-ICN/PVG/HKG/NGO , ATL-PVG, SEA-PEK/KIX

my bad - take out SEA since we're not counting west coast or NRT, so DL is 5


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23059 posts, RR: 20
Reply 22, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 10016 times:

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 20):
I don't have a comprehensive list for the Asian carriers A.T.M.

Nor do I, but I'd guess the Asian carriers are a little ahead - you've got 11 listed above, and we need to add to that OZ and CX (announced, not started) to ORD and OZ, CA, CZ, CX, CI and MU to JFK.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2193 posts, RR: 15
Reply 23, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 10018 times:

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 20):
AA (0) : None

False. AA flies ORD-PVG/PEK.

And if you count India as well, then you have

CO (5) : EWR-HKG/PEK/PVG/DEL/BOM

AA (3) : ORD-PVG/PEK/DEL



next flights: jfk-icn, icn-hkg-bkk-cdg, cdg-phl-msp
User currently offlineMiAAmi From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 590 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 10005 times:

Does anyone have any factual information as to why AA stopped sales on the LAX-PVG flight?

25 SESGDL : DTW-PEK is starting this summer as well. That's six since you've decided not to count West Coast destinations. Also, AA serves ORD-PVG and PEK. If yo
26 Post contains images mogandoCI : I think we're generally referring to far east Asia if we start lumping India, then we should also count all flights to Middle East and even Israel (f
27 IrishAyes : Fair enough. But the fact of the matter is that you forgot the two daily ORD-PVG/PEK flights, which are huge. Especially since the ORD-PVG flight is
28 MAH4546 : Oh please. AA is the largest carrier at LAX by revenue, the largest mainline carrier at LAX, and offers more first class seats to LAX than any other
29 MAH4546 : It apparently has nothing to do with slots. I am told AA is still awaiting final Chinese government approval and has put a hold on reservations until
30 AABB777 : AA was selling the flight with the tagline "subject to government approval", but CAAC requested they stop selling the flight until the slots are full
31 deltal1011man : um...what does that have to do with anything? SLC for DL has 250-300 flights and only one flight to NRT and CDG(DL has more international flights out
32 DTWHKG : Why is UA selling their LAX-PVG flight? Did UA already get the approval? What's going on?
33 LAXdude1023 : Unfortunately AA has a bad track record with this. When AA first started ORD-PEK, I was supposed to be on that flight, but I got rerouted through DFW
34 IrishAyes : But wasn't that due to a slot issue, not with govt approval? I can't remember off the top of my head...
35 coolfish1103 : I don't think it's fair to count India if you are not including west coast flights as no flights from the east coast of the US flies transpacific to I
36 LAXintl : Anyone have any further on this flight? Now its not even shown in GDS. Before it was there but had zero availability. Makes me think its pulled comple
37 mogandoCI : isn't there SFO-ICN ? Also, you should also include the HND flights for the US carriers, since you've included them for the Asian ones. And why are w
38 LAXdude1023 : And there you have it. AA avoids flying stuff over the Pacific that they can codeshare on.
39 mogandoCI : AA's current entire TPAC network from LA is just one : NRT (which, btw, everyone else also flies) Not even sure PVG will ever materialize (or would i
40 web500sjc : If your going to include HND for Hawaiian then you should count it for delta and American, which ups the count by three to 49
41 MAH4546 : What does that have anything to do with anything I said? AA is very strong at LAX. That's reality, as much as it bothers you. The fact that AA's tran
42 LAXintl : Actually the date applied was only December 8th, rather close to the December 3rd date the LAX-PVG flight seems to have initially dropped out on. Eit
43 MAH4546 : Reading too much into it, IMO. If AA did not renew, it would have expired in February. Pure coincidence of timing. AA has every intention of starting
44 modesto2 : Correct, UA operates: SFO-ICN UA893 744 ICN-SFO UA892 744 When I flew the route in autumn of 2009, it was operated with a 777.
45 Viscount724 : India is always included in any airline statistics covering Asia, along with other countries in the South Asian region (Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Banglade
46 MiAAmi : Any new news with the start up of this route? Will AA delay the start up?
47 LAXintl : From FA union news update: American Airlines has decided to delay the start up of LAX-Shanghai service that was scheduled for April 2011. Tickets sale
48 MAH4546 : The flight will start on April 5th after all, with modified schedule due to slot issues: AA 183 LAX 1510-1945+1 PVG AA 182 PVG 2145-1855 LAX Flights a
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