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Boeing To Increase 777 Production Rate  
User currently offlineOyKIE From Norway, joined Jan 2006, 2754 posts, RR: 4
Posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 10620 times:

Quote:
SEATTLE, Dec. 20, 2010 /PRNewswire/ -- Boeing (NYSE: BA) today announced its production rate for the 777 program will increase to 8.3 airplanes per month in the first quarter 2013. This is the second production increase announced for the program this year. In March the program announced it would increase production from five to seven airplanes per month beginning in mid-2011.

"In response to strong customer demand globally, we are increasing our yearly production to 100 777s," said Boeing Commercial Airplanes President and CEO Jim Albaugh. "The 777 is the twin-aisle market leader because of its superior operating economics, unmatched range and preference among travelers' needs."

The 777 has a large installed operator base, and a track record of proven performance including 1,163 orders, 907 deliveries and a backlog of more than 250 airplanes. Suppliers are prepared to support the rate increase.

I wonder if Boeing will push more 777-200ER/LR with this planned increase in production rate?


Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12855 posts, RR: 25
Reply 1, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 10616 times:

Quoting OyKIE (Thread starter):
I wonder if Boeing will push more 777-200ER/LR with this planned increase in production rate?

They'll push in whatever the customer wants, which seems to be mostly 77W, which the occasional 77F and 77L thrown into the mix.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1896 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 10568 times:

Sounds like Boeing wants to be able to offer a 777 without a four year wait. That could be it's big advantage over 359s or 3510s. Get a 777 in two or three years or wait six or seven for a 350.
It could have something to do wiht their cryptic hints of greater improvements in weight and efficiencies than anyone thought possible, planning on sales keeping pace or even improving in the future.



Andy Goetsch
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12855 posts, RR: 25
Reply 3, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 10558 times:

I guess we'll get to see the SU 777s that much quicker!  


Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlinestitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31250 posts, RR: 85
Reply 4, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 10409 times:
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As I noted in another thread, I imagine Boeing is looking at three things:

1) Meeting continued strong demand for the 77W

2) Having 77E and 77L positions available as compensation to customers waiting for 787-9s

3) Having positions available for A350 customers who need interim lift if that program encounters a delayed EIS and/or slow production ramp


User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12855 posts, RR: 25
Reply 5, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 10369 times:

And, of course,

4) Bring in more cash to cover for the huge near-term cash sinkholes known as 787 and 747-8.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlinestitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31250 posts, RR: 85
Reply 6, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 10313 times:
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Quoting Revelation (Reply 5):
4) Bring in more cash to cover for the huge near-term cash sinkholes known as 787 and 747-8.

The 747-8 program seems to be proceeding pretty well, based on the Flight Test thread.

As for the 787-8, yes hundreds of millions more will need to be spent, but Boeing's current cash flow is more than sufficient to handle it.

By the time that extra money kicks in in 2013, it will be allocated to the 777-300ERX program and the 737neo or Y1.


User currently offlinefun2fly From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1077 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 9916 times:

Quoting stitch (Reply 4):
2) Having 77E and 77L positions available as compensation to customers waiting for 787-9s

bingo...wonder who got 777's as comp for 788 delays?


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13438 posts, RR: 100
Reply 8, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 9827 times:
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Quoting stitch (Reply 4):

As I noted in another thread, I imagine Boeing is looking at three things:

Your summary matches mine. I just think it will mostly be 77Ws.  

Ghad, barely pulling out of the recession and air travel is poised for strong growth. Excellent!   

Quoting fun2fly (Reply 7):
bingo...wonder who got 777's as comp for 788 delays?

Positions is a discounted 77E/77L, not a free plane.   ANA bought a few, I'm not sure who else.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineDaysleeper From UK - England, joined Dec 2009, 871 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 9736 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 8):
Positions is a discounted 77E/77L, not a free plane. ANA bought a few, I'm not sure who else.

Lightsaber




Sounds very plausible that they will be offering more 777 as compensation deals for the delays to the 787. Didn't BA take a few? I think some they purchased, the others are leased.

Couple of questions though, isn't the 777 in any version significantly more expensive than the 787 - If so I wonder who is covering the bulk of the costs, as I thought the majority of the 777 costs were down to the engines which GE have a monopoly on with the 77W. Answering my own question here, but I wonder if that's why SU have ordered the E/L version?

Also, if these are leased like the BA ones, when the 787 reaches a reasonable production rate wont the market be flooded with 777s? AI are seem to be struggling to find anyone willing to lease theirs - Although I don;t think anyone knows what price they are expecting and if this is reasonable.


User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12855 posts, RR: 25
Reply 10, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 9728 times:

Quoting stitch (Reply 6):
The 747-8 program seems to be proceeding pretty well, based on the Flight Test thread.

Yes, but it is in a "loss forward" position, i.e. current sales will not result bring in enough to make it profitable.

Quoting stitch (Reply 6):
As for the 787-8, yes hundreds of millions more will need to be spent

On top of the billions it's already overshot its budget by.

Quoting stitch (Reply 6):
Boeing's current cash flow is more than sufficient to handle it.

Right, but having a few more 777s coming off the line will only help.

Quoting stitch (Reply 6):
By the time that extra money kicks in in 2013, it will be allocated to the 777-300ERX program and the 737neo or Y1.

I think the Boeing board is going to scrutinize any new airplane program quite heavily.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineMEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4353 posts, RR: 35
Reply 11, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 9649 times:

Still a backlog of 250 is not that big, what if new orders don't come in as much as they hope and they have to decrease back to 4 or 5 after a year, isn't that a waste of resources?
Many major 777 operators like American, United, Singapore seem not to be interested in further orders, so I wonder who will buy all the 777s they want to produce.
It's interesting to compare the 737 backlog which is about 2200 aircraft. And they don't increase the production rate of that type to 83 aircraft a month !



nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
User currently offlineOyKIE From Norway, joined Jan 2006, 2754 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 9625 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 1):
They'll push in whatever the customer wants, which seems to be mostly 77W, which the occasional 77F and 77L thrown into the mix.
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 8):
I just think it will mostly be 77Ws

In general I agree that the 77W will take most of new orders going forward, but I would imagine that for some 787 customers the 77W is just much of an airplane? It is 20 tons heavier than the 77L

Quoting nomadd22 (Reply 2):
Sounds like Boeing wants to be able to offer a 777 without a four year wait.

   2013 will be the highest productionrate for the 777 ever.  

[Edited 2010-12-20 09:00:48]


Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 9536 times:

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 11):
Many major 777 operators like American, United, Singapore seem not to be interested in further orders, so I wonder who will buy all the 777s they want to produce.

when they realize traffic climbs back to pre-recession levels......... they're in desperate need for additional lift......... the 77E/77L/77W can be ordered and delivered with very short lead times......... the A330 can only go so far and lift so much......... the 787-8 being way too small......... the 787-9 falling short of Boeing's promise due to weight increases......... and the A350 being plagued with delays just like 787..... esp if you consider the A350-1000's entry-into-service won't be until at least late 2015 (and that's probably too aggressive), if not later

one prime example is CX - they seem to love their 77W so much that their entire long-haul strategy evolves around it.

And when you realize how many 744s need replacing (the first 744s are like 22 years old), and how Boeing can discount the 77W even more heavily the counter any potential sales of the A350-1000, the 777 is here to stay


User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 5146 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 9243 times:

Quoting Daysleeper (Reply 9):
AI are seem to be struggling to find anyone willing to lease theirs -

on an "as they are" basis they are only of interest to a ULH operator looking for ~8500nm ESAD.


User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 9153 times:

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 13):
and the A350 being plagued with delays just like 787..

Could you enlighten me where the A350 is 'plagued with delays' to match the 787? Mind you, it would be pretty hard to achieve that at this point, so I'm certainly interested in your answer showing this.


User currently offlinetarheelwings From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 209 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 8961 times:

Quoting AirNZ (Reply 15):
Could you enlighten me where the A350 is 'plagued with delays' to match the 787? Mind you, it would be pretty hard to achieve that at this point, so I'm certainly interested in your answer showing this

We appreciate the fact you're trying to keep posts as close to reality as possible, I would agree that the comment "A350 is plagued with delays" is not really based on substantiated facts.

Too bad you missed the chance to call him on the following comment (which also is based more on rumours than actual facts):

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 13):
the 787-9 falling short of Boeing's promise due to weight increases


User currently offlinestitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31250 posts, RR: 85
Reply 17, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 8328 times:
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Quoting Revelation (Reply 10):
Yes, but (the 747-8 program) is in a "loss forward" position, i.e. current sales will not result bring in enough to make it profitable.

And almost all of that money has already been spent in prior years. The only real costs now are production.


Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 11):
Still a backlog of 250 is not that big, what if new orders don't come in as much as they hope and they have to decrease back to 4 or 5 after a year, isn't that a waste of resources?

The 777 secured 76 gross orders and while there have been 30 cancellations, that has been due more to financial difficulties (JL and AI) more than lack on interest in the model (CO) so once those airlines that cancelled get healthy again, that favors them placing new orders.

[Edited 2010-12-20 14:37:13]

User currently offlinetullamarine From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1625 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 5402 times:

Ben Sandilands is wondering if QF is in the mix. http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalk...-for-qantas-to-buy-777s-is-opened/ and more

717,721/2,732/3/4/5/7/8/9,742/3/4,752/3,762/3,772,W,310,320/1,332/3,388,DC9,DC10,F28,F100,142,143,E90,CR2,D82/3/4,SF3,AT
User currently offlinethegeek From Australia, joined Nov 2007, 2638 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 5340 times:

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 18):
Ben Sandilands is wondering if QF is in the mix. http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalk...-for-qantas-to-buy-777s-is-opened/

That's crazy talk. QF has completely missed the boat on the 777. It's too late now.


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4987 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5147 times:

Wishful thinking would be a QF order!!!


Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineOyKIE From Norway, joined Jan 2006, 2754 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5057 times:

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 18):
Ben Sandilands is wondering if QF is in the mix

Interesting.

Quoting thegeek (Reply 19):
It's too late now.

Why? Even if they were offered a very sweet deal?



Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
User currently offlinefrigatebird From Netherlands, joined Jun 2008, 1710 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4548 times:

Quoting nomadd22 (Reply 2):
Sounds like Boeing wants to be able to offer a 777 without a four year wait. That could be it's big advantage over 359s or 3510s. Get a 777 in two or three years or wait six or seven for a 350.

Most likely. Possibly customers are ready to place large orders for the 777, the only condition being that they can be delivered at short notice.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 3):
I guess we'll get to see the SU 777s that much quicker!

I guess we'll see the LOI changed into a firm order soon now that the production increase is confirmed.

And who knows how many of those LOI/MOU's are already there, without public knowledge... Could be a very good time for 777 orders now.  
Quoting thegeek (Reply 19):
Quoting tullamarine (Reply 18):
Ben Sandilands is wondering if QF is in the mix. http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalk...-for-qantas-to-buy-777s-is-opened/


That's crazy talk. QF has completely missed the boat on the 777. It's too late now.

I don't think QF is in the mix either. But then, how many people saw SU wanting to order the 777 again?



146,318/19/20/21,AB6,332,343,345,388,722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9,742,74E,744,752,762,763,772,77E,773,77W,AT4/7,ATP,CRK,E90,F50/7
User currently offlineworldliner From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 275 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4190 times:

If QF were to order the 777, wouldn't they be a candidate for all models? 77E, 77L and 77W?


@777Worldliner
User currently offlineStickShaker From Australia, joined Sep 2004, 758 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4156 times:

Quoting nomadd22 (Reply 2):
Sounds like Boeing wants to be able to offer a 777 without a four year wait. That could be it's big advantage over 359s or 3510s.

Its a big advantage over a 787 with no ETOPS clearance.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 10):
Quoting stitch (Reply 6):
By the time that extra money kicks in in 2013, it will be allocated to the 777-300ERX program and the 737neo or Y1.

I think the Boeing board is going to scrutinize any new airplane program quite heavily.

  

That is the understatement of the year.
Boeings financiers will likely scrutinize any new program heavily too.
I see a risk averse sentiment in Boeing for a few years to come.

Quoting thegeek (Reply 19):
Quoting tullamarine (Reply 18):
Ben Sandilands is wondering if QF is in the mix. http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalk...-for-qantas-to-buy-777s-is-opened/

That's crazy talk. QF has completely missed the boat on the 777. It's too late now.

Whats crazy is the state of the 787 program - QF considering 77W's is nothing more than a consequence of that state of affairs. If QF do seriously consider the 777 it will be the 4th time they have done so over the years, 1998 - 77E, 2005 - 77L and 2008 - 77W.


Regards,
StickShaker


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