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DL MD90's Being Pushed Beyond Realistic Range  
User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3205 posts, RR: 13
Posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 35142 times:

As has been a bit of a popular topic lately, DL is acquiring *many* second-hand MD90's from various sources. A large majority of them have been used on routes from the MSP hub and it's becoming apparent that the MD90 may not be the best aircraft for some of the routes it's currently used on:

MSP-SEA
MSP-PDX
MSP-SFO
MSP-SJC
MSP-SMF
MSP-SAN

All within the last week have regularly taken weight restrictions, sometimes north of 15-20 pax in the most severe cases. Should DL begin seriously reconsidering their fleet deployment strategy?? Move MD88's and MD90's to LGA/JFK and return the A319's and A320's to MSP for the west coast flights??



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[Edited 2010-12-21 16:21:26 by srbmod]

[Edited 2010-12-21 17:10:19 by srbmod]

150 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinedeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9349 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 35127 times:

Quoting Transpac787 (Thread starter):

All within the last week have regularly taken weight restrictions, sometimes north of 15-20 pax in the most severe cases. Should DL begin seriously reconsidering their fleet deployment strategy?? Move MD88's and MD90's to LGA/JFK and return the A319's and A320's to MSP for the west coast flights??

I vote Delta buys new 737s and just dump the darn things    

(be glad to see the 320 here head to MSP and ATL get more M90s)   



yep.
User currently offlineAloha717200 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4480 posts, RR: 15
Reply 2, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 35006 times:

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 1):
I vote Delta buys new 737s and just dump the darn things 

I disagree. MD-90s are cheap to acquire and can fill a niche role at a low cost. And from a spotter's standpoint...they're far more interesting than yet another vanilla 738.   


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15735 posts, RR: 27
Reply 3, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 34987 times:

Quoting Transpac787 (Thread starter):
All within the last week have regularly taken weight restrictions, sometimes north of 15-20 pax in the most severe cases. Should DL begin seriously reconsidering their fleet deployment strategy??

Those are only some of the longest flights out of MSP, and in the worst time of year for winds. And considering the lower cost of the MD-90s, the money still might work out in favor of the airlines. It's kind of like saying JetBlue needs something better for their transcons since they sometimes have to make a fuel stop.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinetristarcrazy From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 321 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 34917 times:

I flew MD90's a couple times on a CVG-PHX run in January, both flights fully loaded with no problems. We were airborne for 4 plus hours. The second flight I specifically remember because we were in the back, cramped, bad movie and I thought we'd never get there!!


717,722,732,733,737.738,739,742,744.752,763,764,772,L10,L15,DC3,DC6,DC8,DC9,DC10,MD11,MD80,MD90,CV880,A310,A319,A320.A33
User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 34911 times:

The MD-90 has a range of 2,400 miles, so how is putting them on 1,600 mile-long flights pushing them beyond range? The MD-90 has plenty of range, but like BMI727 mentioned, winds currently suck. Hence you see Delta having payload restrictions on their MD-90s, hence B6's transcons tend to stop for fuel every once in a while, hence a couple of weeks ago flights from the Northeast headed straight for Calgary before turning south to SoCal, just to avoid the strong headwinds.

User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3205 posts, RR: 13
Reply 6, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 34871 times:

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 5):
The MD-90 has a range of 2,400 miles, so how is putting them on 1,600 mile-long flights pushing them beyond range?

Tell that to the MD90 on MSP-SAN this morning that took a weight restriction of nearly 30 passengers...


User currently offlineUSAIRWAYS321 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1847 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 34818 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 3):
It's kind of like saying JetBlue needs something better for their transcons since they sometimes have to make a fuel stop.

There's a big difference between making a fuel stop and leaving 30 passengers behind.


User currently offlineC767P From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 886 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 34770 times:

Quoting Transpac787 (Thread starter):
All within the last week have regularly taken weight restrictions

How much snow has MSP picked up in the past week? Would it be possible they are taking extra fuel to be able to hold near MSP to try avoiding a diversion?


User currently offlineKcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3814 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 34715 times:

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 6):
Tell that to the MD90 on MSP-SAN this morning that took a weight restriction of nearly 30 passengers...

I've seen CRJ's on CRW-CLT restricted to as few as 25 or 30 seats, out and inbound, when the weather goes south. Guess they need not push this aircraft so near its range on a 40 minute hop...


User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3205 posts, RR: 13
Reply 10, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 34645 times:

Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 9):
Guess they need not push this aircraft so near its range on a 40 minute hop...

Maybe you don't fully appreciate or understand how weight critical CR2's are when they are carrying holding and alternate gas, and how that rapidly pushes them above MLW+burnoff  

[Edited 2010-12-21 16:49:53]

User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6372 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 34602 times:

Wonder if they're feeling dumb now for dumping the rest of the MD-90 order in the early 1990's after only 16 aircraft were delivered   


Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineTOMMY767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 34535 times:

This week isn't a good example for range. A few days ago a UA flight on BOS-SFO was 7hrs 24mins according to flight aware on a 757! Yikes!


"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlinefanoftristars From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1608 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 34483 times:

As others have said the winds have been incredible... We were flying the other direction yesterday, LAX-SLC and had 170 mph tail wind component. We departed 40 min late yet still arrived almost on time. 1hr 3min flight time, the fastest ever on this route for me. So leaving 30 people at the gate a few times in a year is a lot less expensive than new 737-800s. And now that they're mostly based out of MSP, and I don't have to fly them, I can understand why DL keeps them  


"FLY DELTA JETS"
User currently offlinefanoftristars From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1608 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 34420 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 11):
Wonder if they're feeling dumb now for dumping the rest of the MD-90 order in the early 1990's after only 16 aircraft were delivered

No, because they're buying them at a price much 1/10th of the original price...lol



"FLY DELTA JETS"
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19584 posts, RR: 58
Reply 15, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 34355 times:

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 12):
A few days ago a UA flight on BOS-SFO was 7hrs 24mins according to flight aware on a 757! Yikes!

I once did a JFK-SFO leg about this week on a VX A319 that lasted over 7 hours.


User currently offlineseabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5410 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 34267 times:

Seems sort of odd to take a weight restriction at this time of year rather than making a fuel stop in, say, GEG (for SEA) or SLC (for SAN). Flights are full enough that I'd think rebooking will be quite a challenge.

User currently offlineMSPNWA From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1936 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 34242 times:

Quoting Transpac787 (Thread starter):
All within the last week have regularly taken weight restrictions, sometimes north of 15-20 pax in the most severe cases. Should DL begin seriously reconsidering their fleet deployment strategy?? Move MD88's and MD90's to LGA/JFK and return the A319's and A320's to MSP for the west coast flights??

They've been going out weight restricted? Terrible. Absolutely the strategy should change. Delta needs to get their head together and get those birds off of the MSP-West Coast flights. Even when they're able to carry the full load, the MD-90 is arguably the worst mainline hard product for Delta (it gets my vote), and yet they're being flown on long, very important routes from MSP. Delta has over 300 jets than run these routes to the max. There's no excuse for this.


User currently offlinejetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7408 posts, RR: 50
Reply 18, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 34194 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Transpac787 (Thread starter):
As has been a bit of a popular topic lately, DL is acquiring *many* second-hand MD90's from various sources. A large majority of them have been used on routes from the MSP hub and it's becoming apparent that the MD90 may not be the best aircraft for some of the routes it's currently used on:

Were these the reconfigured M90s?



Made from jets!
User currently offlinedeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9349 posts, RR: 14
Reply 19, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 34167 times:

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 18):

They've been going out weight restricted? Terrible. Absolutely the strategy should change. Delta needs to get their head together and get those birds off of the MSP-West Coast flights. Even when they're able to carry the full load, the MD-90 is arguably the worst mainline hard product for Delta (it gets my vote), and yet they're being flown on long, very important routes from MSP. Delta has over 300 jets than run these routes to the max. There's no excuse for this.

How many M9K flights have you been on?

Quoting jetjack74 (Reply 19):

Were these the reconfigured M90s?

yea



yep.
User currently offlineseabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5410 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 34165 times:

A look at Flightaware confirms that a number of B6 transcons have been diverting to LAS... seems like a bad week in general.

User currently offlineNW747-400 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 502 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 34112 times:

Quoting USAIRWAYS321 (Reply 7):
There's a big difference between making a fuel stop and leaving 30 passengers behind.

Its actually pretty much the same. No one actually said that 30 passengers were left behind, but the payload was restricted by 30 passengers. You have two options: take the payload restriction or make the fuel stop. Clearly DL had decided taking the restriction was a better choice. Maybe the flight wasn't full. Maybe the affected passengers were easily re-accommodated. Maybe a weight restriction would only affect non-revs. We'll never know what the dispatcher's thought process included. We often have payload restrictions that don't matter because we never get close to having enough payload that we have to leave something behind.


User currently offlineTomassjc From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 868 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 34085 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Aloha717200 (Reply 2):
And from a spotter's standpoint...they're far more interesting than yet another vanilla 738

I think they carry the Widget well too. Nice looking bird.



When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your eyes turned skyward -Leonardo DaVinci
User currently offlineMSPNWA From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1936 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 34059 times:

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 20):
How many M9K flights have you been on?

None yet. Hope to get on one soon.

But the new ones are still a small-tube MD-90. Even if the bins and pitch have been increased in space, it's still getting my vote.

Quoting jetjack74 (Reply 19):
Were these the reconfigured M90s?

Both old and new are being affected.


User currently offlineBCBHokie From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 119 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 34838 times:

These things are absolutely miserable on MSP-SEA segments. Much too long to be stuffed in an aircraft with the fuselage width of a DC-9.

From a frequent flier's perspective, though, the only thing that would be worse would be A319s returning to the route - now that Delta's removed a row of first class. I'll happily take the 320s back any day of the week, though.

Does anyone know the real reasons the MD-90 ingestion has been delayed by reportedly 6+ months? The rumor I recall seeing most around here is galley configuration, but that can't take 6 months to fix, can it?

[Edited 2010-12-21 17:42:44]

25 ikramerica : It's one of the main reasons I stopped flying AA as a West Coast resident. Tired of MD80 flights to DFW and ORD. As a tall person, the MD80/90 is jus
26 Post contains images FlyASAGuy2005 : Nah. The 90s were dogs back then and the first 16 spent more time on the ground than they did in the air The 738 more than made up for it though. Thi
27 deltairlines : Headwinds are absolutely nuts this week. I was on a LAS-MSP flight on Sunday that was 2:10 in-flight, while my friend flying the other direction at th
28 n7371f : Poster is talking about flights leaving MSP to the west coast.
29 DLMD90 : this is only b/c weather, this distance is normally not an issue at all for this aircraft.
30 nwa757boy : Now I have worked numerous west-coast to MSP and reverse several times and these birds just don't cut it. Yeah they are great to look at from the outs
31 sxf24 : How is this different than an MD-80 or DC-9?
32 RDUOODL : Think about rebooking all 160 when their connections are blown, as opposed to the 30 left behind.
33 nwa757boy : On the DC9, fewer people, shorter flight not that much time to go to the bathroom. MD88 has somewhat of the same problem as the 90, but on the 90 it'
34 treebeard787 : My MSP-PHX flight on Jan 1st was scheduled to be a B757-300 but has since been down graded to an MD-90, Hopefully everything goes well. Would have pre
35 sxf24 : A temporary problem.
36 SESGDL : Did you complain about this when NW was flying A319s, A320s, and 757s on long routes with no IFE? Most DL MD-90s have IFE, and soon all of them will
37 nwa757boy : Nope, Same problem with those planes as well. With no entertainment, you can just see differences with IFE planes and non IFE planes.
38 FlyASAGuy2005 : Fortunately for Delta, they don't have 300 a/c just laying around to fly said route because you say so. Fleet and network planning puts a/c where they
39 Post contains images ocracoke : This isn't the first time that DL (or airline ____) has faced these wind issues. Heck, 20 years ago, were there an internet and a.net, you would have
40 sparky35805 : How does the MD90s range compare with an MD80?Did Northwest not run MD80s from MSP and DTW to the west coast? Sparky
41 727forever : Every MD-90 I've flown has the vacuum flush toilets. The MD-88 is still the recirculating system. Would DL love to put the A320 or 752 back on these
42 SESGDL : Yes they did, MSP-ONT being a notable MD-80 route back in the late 1990s. The MD-90 has a slightly longer published range than the MD-80, so DL isn't
43 Super80 : If the MD90 is really that bad as you mentioned "The Worst Mainline Hard Product" and "Still a Small-tube MD-90" Why would you still want to get on o
44 navigator : All things considered they probably make more money with the MD-90 than with a newer plane with higher capital costs. Probably also when they leave t
45 bobnwa : Not to support MSPNWA in any way, but how many M9K flights have you been on?
46 Post contains images United_fan : Please send some to ROC from ATL . It would be a nice change from the -88's.
47 MD-90 : Sadly I've never been on an MD-90 flight on any airline.
48 MDShady : The -83 had a slightly longer range than the -90.
49 Post contains images enilria : Winter weight restrictions aren't that big of a deal because planes are empier in the Winter and yields are also depressed. If they were taking restr
50 atlengineer : Actually, the MD90's have considerably longer range than the MD88's (2400 nm vs. 1700 nm). I have flown many MD88/MD90's and B737's. Nothing against
51 BoeingGuy : There are people, including myself, who believe that AA's MD80s are probably the most comfortable domestic coach seats, when sitting on the two-seat
52 milesrich : Now suddenly the DC-9 width fuselage makes a long flight uncomfortable? I guess then, every four hour + flight in a coach Electra, Comet, CV-990, CV-
53 FlyAAS80 : I completely agree with you on this... I've purposely flown AA from ORD to SAN for years solely due to the S80. I guess that to each their own with t
54 milesrich : Weren't the NW MD-80's the early model DC-9-81's that came from Republic? And are you stating that the range of this aircraft was greater than the MD
55 dtw9 : Republic's were converted to MD-82. Longest flight out of DTW that I can recall was DTW-PHX(remember #255).
56 727forever : While the MD-83 does have more tankage in the aft cargo bins, it still has the same max takeoff weight as the MD-90 and will suffer the same problems
57 planespotting : I heard that NW got rid of the MD-80 back in the late '90s because they had a hard time making it work in their network. Not sure of the specifics, b
58 mayor : First of all, in all of this, nowhere was it stated that 30 pax were left behind, just that 30 seats were blocked for the restrictions. Big difference
59 tockeyhockey : i believe those planes all had 2-2 seating, not 2-3. and they also didn't have huge overhead bins.
60 Post contains images Coronado : AS better get rid of those pesky 738's which have to stop in OAK on their way from SEA to HNL. Nasty nasty short range birds! They should put one of t
61 FiestaFlight : I too, went Platinum on AA just for the Mad Dogs. Exit row, letter A window with an iPod, baby. I'd do it transcon if they had the legs. That T/O thru
62 SkyHigh777 : I'm scheduled to fly DL's MD90 from LAX-MSP on Jan 3rd....little nervous about having to spend so much time on such a small aircraft. What's the diffe
63 FiestaFlight : I think they are the same. I wouldn't worry about it. It's not like you're flying on an R.J. ha! I fly on DL 747s MSP-NRT all the time, and they real
64 TOMMY767 : That's incredibly rare though. About as infrequent as CO running ERJs on IAH-LAX. DL M90s (not the second hand M9Ks) have drop down LCDs so that's al
65 Post contains images Super80 : Well, not much different. Only different is that DL MD88 is 3 - 2 seating and MD90 is 2 - 3 seating. And MD90s have drop down TV. and if you are luck
66 C767P : It is not that long of a flight and the plane is not a small aircraft. I have only been on one -90, but I really liked it. Like any 2-3 aircraft, the
67 Transpac787 : I guess you weren't able to read the subtext of the thread?? Or just the text of the OP....
68 C767P : People on here have mentioned that they have done SAN-EWR on a CO MD-80. I can’t find a timetable that says that it was done, but I have read it on
69 dtw9 : In 1994 CO ran flight #1010 SAN-IAH- EWR
70 seabosdca : Eastbound, especially this time of year, it wouldn't be a problem at all. Sometimes those flights are less than four hours. I very much doubt they we
71 TOMMY767 : IIRC, not all that often. Although I recall M82 payload restrictions on a DFW-BOS flight one time. They had to dump quite a few people off the plane.
72 Access-Air : In the proverbial day of Regional Jets all over hell and half of Georgia (ATL in Delta's case), one woul dbe happy to have a flight on a full sized ai
73 MSPNWA : Since my old post was wiped out, I'll reply to you again. You are mistaken. I was asked if I had ever flown on an M9K, the new interior configuration
74 malaysia : MD88 and MD90 are very decent to be in, I never feel cramped, I have flown on them countless times. They have big Douglas style windows, so you have a
75 deltadawg : Perhaps DL could talk Bombardier into movnig forward with the CS500 and get a newer version of the MD90's with more efficient engines, retain 5 across
76 Post contains images commavia : Amen. I've said it before and I'll say it again - as far as I'm concerned, the MD80 is the most comfortable Y experience from a purely seat/environme
77 aa777lvr : I know others disagree, but if you don't mind the lack of IFE, the MD-80/90 family is great. I knew as a non-rev my chances of an aisle or window were
78 dtw9 : So far they have reserved registrations up to N980DN
79 deltal1011man : please show where i passed judgment on the M9K.......
80 727forever : The DL MD-88s do use the MD-82 weights though could be upgraded to the MD-83 weights if they want to pay the money for the maintenance, landing fees,
81 Flighty : Yes, the MD90 takeoff is one-of-a-kind. It's the only mainline jet with modern turbofans mounted way back aft. The first time I rode one, it felt lik
82 milesrich : You "believe" WRONG on each and every count! In first class they had 2-2, just like the DC-9, but in coach they had 2-3 seating. I left out the Carav
83 timz : Try 1987. Eastward only, as you'd expect. But AA's MD83 (?) IAD-LAX was both ways.
84 Kcrwflyer : 717? Pre-deregulation domestic loadfactors, compared to today, sucked.
85 bobnwa : You did ask someone else who commented on the M9K how many times he had been on the aircraft. Thought I would ask you the same question. I do notice
86 deltal1011man : I haven't but i also haven't said they are "The worst mainline hard product for Delta" So why are you 1) thinking 2) asking me question that you don'
87 timz : 1988 would be better: it's not in the 11/87, it is in the 2/88 and 4/88, then in 6/88 it's been replaced by an A300.
88 mayor : According to DL's stats, their 880s had 84 seats, all FC seating and from what I can tell, that is 2+2 all the way except for the lounge seating in f
89 dtw9 : I had three flights on Delta's 880's and all were 2+3in coach. Deltas 880's were 96 seaters[Edited 2010-12-22 16:35:21]
90 Flighty : Aha. You got me there. I've never had a 717 ride. It must be almost as quiet.
91 dtw9 : After further research here is the Delta 880 breakdown. When the Convairs were delivered they were 84 all first class seating. Then in Dec 1961 Delta
92 Post contains links Viscount724 : That's correct per DL passenger information guide excerpt dated 1965. http://airchive.com/html/memorabilia...65-passenger-information-guide/412 Relev
93 MDShady : I know they usually have to level off for a bit if they're heavy but are you sure about the fuel burn? I swear I've seen on a.net figures of around 6
94 MDShady : Yes I loved flying on em too. Especially the old YX birds. Anything going west over the winter slows way down so I don't know why MD-90's are being s
95 727forever : Positive. All airplanes more fuel to fly the same speed the heavier they get. With a -219 engine package a -80 series airplane will burn approximatel
96 mayor : One of my regrets of my time with DL was that I never got to fly on the 880. The figures I used came from the info on the Delta Museum's website. I w
97 Kcrwflyer : Very powerful and the sound is like no other.
98 Post contains links and images SNCntry32 : I hate the M9K. I hate it, hate it, hate it. I have more leg room on an E175. M9K A320. I cant beleive they are seriously flying 160 people MSP West C
99 deltal1011man : and this kids is why that 1-2inchs makes for a better flight (M9K is 31in pitch, 320 is 32-33in)
100 bobnwa : You are right, you didn't say that. So why are you 1) thinking 2) asking me question that you don't need to know about? Did you need to know MSPNWA's
101 Super80 : YES. We need to know if MSPNWA has been on one because MSPNWA concluded that the MD90 is "The Worst Mainline Hard Product" in DL fleet and even with
102 TOMMY767 : IMHO, MSP is lucky to get the M90 as they were slave to NW for years with ZERO IFE on any of their domestic aircraft!
103 milesrich : If you notice, my original post said COACH, not First Class. All mainline narrow body aircraft, have or had 2-2 seating in First class. I don't think
104 SNCntry32 : I dont really think IFE is the issue here as Northwest just didnt have it for years, the issue here is the galley reconfigurations, and how they are
105 MSPNWA : Thanks for the pic. Guess they haven't improved that tight pitch much, if any. The old one was supposedly 30-32", so 31" across the board is about th
106 Viscount724 : Not on PA or TW or any other IATA member carriers, at least on aircraft that operated international routes. 34 inch pitch was the upper limit for Y c
107 mayor : Lets clarify this, again. Weight restrictions do not necessarily mean that anyone is left behind, but that those particular seats are blocked and not
108 SonomaFlyer : The American flying public is often blind to anything except price. That means that though folks might whine about the "hard product" they will fly D
109 TVNWZ : Okay, let's go on the record: Even in first class the MD90 is the worst hard product at DL. Correct, but Delta can get away with a lot. I hate those
110 davs5032 : I second those who have said that AA's Super80's are the most comfortable NB ride around. That is the main reason that I've been hoping AA will pony u
111 MSPNWA : And let's clarify another thing. Of course they don't always mean PAX left behind, but in this case they did. These were not fully proactive blocks.
112 mayor : Which is a departure time decision for most any type of a/c, especially with the weather the way it was this past week out of MSP. And weight restric
113 TrijetsRMissed : To the original point of the thread: If the range were to become such an issue in the network, DL could opt for the -ER upgrade mod on select frames.
114 MSPNWA : Well, they made it to the fourth option there this past week.[Edited 2010-12-24 09:07:38 by srbmod]
115 DLMD90 : I was going to ask if there was a difference between the first class product on the M9K and the original MD90s? Is pitch different?
116 warreng24 : Correct. BOS-SFO is taking around 7:05. Normally 5:45 or so. Winds totally suck. BTW, none of UA's 757's have had to make fuel stops or take any payl
117 TrijetsRMissed : Anyone know if DL will use the MD-90 on MSP-TUS? It's currently mostly A320/319s.
118 MDShady : Even if Boeing would be willing to do this, do they still even have any of the tooling to? There's only 3 ER's in existance as it is.
119 timz : Aviation Week 16 Feb 1970-- CAB allows Western to increase 737 seat pitch to 38-39 inches (currently 34) to compete with RW's 41-inch coach pitch. 13
120 CWAFlyer : I wonder if Delta's customer people in these payload limited cities complain and arm-chair quarterback to their SOC about fuel loads etc? And if not,
121 SNCntry32 : Non-Revs? Everything has been so full...
122 Post contains images mayor : Yeah....I know......but I had to put that in there, lest they think that non-revs wouldn't be pulled, if aboard. Never having been a gate agent, I do
123 AeroWesty : A memorable WA commercial from the 1970s was "you get three feet for your two legs on Western Airlines". I doubt 38" lasted all that long. I recall f
124 seabosdca : That is what happens when you fly a nine-hour airplane on six-hour flights... unfortunately, the rest of the time, it's too much airplane. The only r
125 Transpac787 : Since when is using an airplane below the far extreme of it's range/performance envelope "abusing" it??
126 TrijetsRMissed : I don't know how much tooling would be required, but we're basically talking about adding an aft aux fuel tank and beefing up the landing gear. Altho
127 Post contains images TrijetsRMissed : Might I also add, DL already has one of the ER's, N918DH. If all the proposed acquisitions occur, DL will own the other 2 ER's as well. Agreed. If th
128 aviationbuff08 : Does anyone have a number of the reconfigured MD88? Last I heard was they had 6 completed and in operational with a few more being reconfigured. How
129 rlwynn : Actually these long flights would be like preserving the plane. Abusing it would be by having more shorter flights to build up the cycles.
130 flyinryan99 : Ya know...one thing I didn't see throughout the thread - where were the alternates? While the winds were bad but the weather at the destination(s) and
131 seabosdca : "Abuse" in the sense (which is widely used around here) that the airplane is not performing its optimal mission, not that the airline is inflicting d
132 akelley728 : I think there are four, 3 ex-Hello and one of DL originals.
133 Dalmd88 : I think there are 8 done with two more being completed this week.
134 MNMncrcnwjr : Small Aircraft??? this thread is getting to be silly... so being in the back of a 73x, A320, A319, 757 is better?? How about the 753's to Hawaii and
135 Post contains images TOMMY767 : Good CASM, until the 738, 739, and A320 divert on transcons because of winter headwinds
136 Post contains images PGNCS : Which happens on what percentage of flights scheduled over a year?
137 Post contains images tsugambler : I'd be all for it--I've never ridden a DC-10!
138 atlengineer : Amazing how this thread has strayed from the original subject title.
139 727forever : Unless you already own a fleet of 757s that were paid for 10 years ago. In that case the 757 clobbers the new jets as it's fixed cost are significant
140 KELPkid : Wow, the thread that refuses to die...
141 akelley728 : What is current MTOW of DL MD-90s (original 16)? How much more fuel/range are we talking about here?
142 UATulipfan : What would it take to update the MD-90s to the MD-90-50 model that was proposed but never built?
143 Post contains images 727forever : Yeah, it almost died, but I just couldn't let something this divisive and off topic go. The current MTOW is 161,000 lbs. The fuel capacity isn't the
144 MNMncrcnwjr : ie no mortgage on the house ... or no car payment... Can any one say NORTHWEST DC-9 Strategy???? Now IF DL would rehab the interiors as well as NW di
145 akelley728 : So 7,000 lbs of fuel means how much more still air range?
146 Kcrwflyer : I'd ballpark somewhere around an hour.
147 milesrich : With UA, the 36 inches of pitch on the DC-8-20/50 lasted until they were retired. The 720's were retired in late 1972 so they were never changed. As
148 Post contains images FlyASAGuy2005 : Let's take that a step further. What is the % point of transcons and TATL flights compared to the entire network/routes that the 757 sees that the 73
149 deltairlines : It'd pretty much be limited to JFK, and would be limited to the 739 and 321 having possible issues. Routes would be SEA, SFO, LAX, maybe LAS domestic
150 TrijetsRMissed : This would support my theory. The -ER/IGW option is one in the same.
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