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New Zealand Aviation Thread #89 - Merry Christmas  
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12104 posts, RR: 18
Posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 18613 times:
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New Zealand Aviation Thread #88 Summer Season (by 777ER Dec 6 2010 in Civil Aviation)

207 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12104 posts, RR: 18
Reply 1, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 18625 times:
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Quoting cchan (Reply 211):

I don't believe NZ will cancel their B789 order as the B789 IMHO will become a very popular aircraft and NZ will be able to use it for destinations that don't require B772s.


User currently onlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12432 posts, RR: 37
Reply 2, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 18608 times:

ATW News reports that the 772LR is among several options being considered by ANZ:

http://atwonline.com/aircraft-engine...777-200lr-787-delay-continues-1222

(It seems that my original post included my email address; I get ATW news into my inbox every morning, hence the inclusion of my email address! That's a bit of a security breach on their part!)

[Edited 2010-12-22 22:14:23]

User currently offlinecchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1759 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 18596 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 1):
I don't believe NZ will cancel their B789 order as the B789 IMHO will become a very popular aircraft and NZ will be able to use it for destinations that don't require B772s.

I guess this also depends on when the 1st 789 can be delivered, and how many years is NZ prepared to wait.


User currently offlineNZCH From New Zealand, joined Jan 2006, 119 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 18594 times:

As mentioned in the end of the last thread, Singapores daily 77-200ER landing on the crosswind runway here at CHCh yesterday, i managed to watch it come in, along with a whole heap of other airport workers, the entire place airlside stopped for a few mins to watch it come in, I was in the domestic weigh bridge at the time. It was an amazing site to see.

Regards

NZCH



Airlines flown: BA,BD,NZ,SQ,FR,ZB,EK,JQ
User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8552 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 18591 times:
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Quoting kaitak (Reply 2):
ATW News reports that the 772LR is among several options being considered by ANZ:

Yes , it was mentioned towards the end of the last thread , but I think it is very interesting and certainly worth reposting into the new thread .

It was interesting that the same article mentioned Chicago , other US Midwest points or South American destinations ( note the plural there for South America ) - apologies for reposting this from the previous thread , but it was right near the end and I think it is also interesting enough to make a re-appearance in the new thread .

[Edited 2010-12-22 22:17:03]


Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12104 posts, RR: 18
Reply 6, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 18564 times:
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Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 5):
Quoting kaitak (Reply 2):
ATW News reports that the 772LR is among several options being considered by ANZ:

Yes , it was mentioned towards the end of the last thread , but I think it is very interesting and certainly worth reposting into the new thread .

Yes. Thank you for re-posting it as the story is a very intreresting and news worthy one

Quoting cchan (Reply 3):

Yes it does depend on how long NZ is willing to wait but will NZ really want to cancel an aircraft order that will change the way its passengers fly and help bring more new passengers?


User currently offlinecchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1759 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 18543 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 6):
but will NZ really want to cancel an aircraft order that will change the way its passengers fly and help bring more new passengers?

No, but if the wait is too long and it becomes more economical to operate a 777 fleet instead, then that might change. It will also depend on the reception of the 787-8, if there are lots of technical problems on the -8, then it may be to NZ's advantage to convert the order to 777s.

Responding to a question towards the end of the previous thread: a few 767s are probably good for routes to the Pacific Islands, trans-tasman, and some Asian routes when a 772 is to big and 320/321 don't have the range. This frees up 772 capacity for other routes. A 763 is relatively cheaper to operate and it cost less to purchase/lease.


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6417 posts, RR: 38
Reply 8, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 18502 times:

Quoting cchan (Reply 7):

But it depends on what extent the growth is going to be like in the Pacific. There was a clear reason why the 787 was looked at - the long thin routes. They could just leave the 763s they have now for the Pacific. KIX is a route where they could take the 763 off and do a couple of Pacific flights if they needed to. The 763 just doesn't have the range of the majority of new routes that NZ want to fly. And so it basically points to the 77L as the only suitable aircraft to attempt routes which was going to be initiated by the 789.

Quoting cchan (Reply 7):
This frees up 772 capacity for other routes. A 763 is relatively cheaper to operate and it cost less to purchase/lease.

But it'll also depend on what product they can provide in the 763. If it isn't possible to get solid flooring, the Business herringbone formation will never be used onboard the 763. Therefore you'll be left with either a choice of redoing a Business cabin or just sticking with the seats they have now. Using a 763 with a product which can be outdone completely by something you can put on a 772 is sure to equate in lost sales as people look for alternatives. The 763 can't really be pushed to 2-4-2 whereas the 777 can go 10-abreast as it's likely to do if NZ were to get more.. Once again boosting the capacity to allow more sales. Which Asian routes are you thinking about which might be too small for a 772? I'm sure TPE could handle a 772, well at least seasonally. Maybe MNL, DPS and CGK but that'd be about it - such passengers could just opt for another airline as it probably wouldn't be able to sustain great numbers.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlinecchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1759 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 18470 times:

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 8):

I am not suggesting the 763 should become part of the backbone of the long haul fleet. A few 763 can be used like a larger 320 with the present business class product. Competition in the Pacific Islands is minimal, the major competitors are Pacific Blue and Air Pacific, and these are not the best in comfort anyway. Among the existing Asian routes, KIX and the HKG flights which do not continue to LHR can be operated by 763. The current schedule for NZ80/81 AKL-HKG puts a 772 on ground in HKG for around 36 hours, twice a week. Given that new 763s have the 777 interior design, the difference would not be very obvious for Y class passengers. The AKL-HKG sector does not have many business class customers, so the 763 should be okay for that.

I think some charter carriers have 2-4-2 763s but that is worse than 3-4-3 on a 777.


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6417 posts, RR: 38
Reply 10, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 18444 times:

Quoting cchan (Reply 9):
The AKL-HKG sector does not have many business class customers, so the 763 should be okay for that.

But you'd put them off even more by offering 2 different types - for some, it'd seem like a lottery between getting a flat bed and an old outdated seat (those that don't pay attention to anything). So why not try to push another HKG route onto somewhere else in Europe instead of having a 763 taking a few flights? Surely NZ38/39 would eventually go back to daily all year round, eliminating the first problem but if they decided to extend it to 2x daily, I don't see a point in getting the 763 to operate HKG as the 2nd flight. Any smart person flying NZ in J to Japan would fly to NRT.

If you take a look back at when NZ used to offer the 763 on AKL-SIN and then switched it for the 772 before removing the route altogether, there was a big jump towards the use of the herringbone seat. Sending a 763 back to SIN would be a silly idea and hence NZ should only think about revisiting SIN if they have the 772. Such things like that can make a difference and they could even charge a bit more for J if they restarted TPE or something. Yes, I do agree that the 763 is great in Economy. The thing about the new cabin in the 763 would depend if they were to lease old ones or not.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineKaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 2984 posts, RR: 28
Reply 11, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 18384 times:

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 8):
If it isn't possible to get solid flooring, the Business herringbone formation will never be used onboard the 763.

Don't know if I'm missing something here, but AC has the herringbone lie-flats in J on its 763s.



Empty vessels make the most noise.
User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6417 posts, RR: 38
Reply 12, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 18379 times:

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 11):

Something to do with the NZ ones at present which can't take the weight. No idea if its their unwillingness to do so or something like that.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 4954 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 18223 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 6):
Yes it does depend on how long NZ is willing to wait but will NZ really want to cancel an aircraft order that will change the way its passengers fly and help bring more new passengers?

If the early 789's come in over weight and NZ had the 77L they may defer deliveries until the weight issues are resolved.

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 12):
Something to do with the NZ ones at present which can't take the weight. No idea if its their unwillingness to do so or something like that.

I believe AC reinforced the floor thus adding to the weight. They have two seating layouts one at 190 another 216. Somewhat less than NZ's 223 seats allowing a payload reduction ( in favor of fuel) of ~3.3t at the low number end.


User currently offlinePA515 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2007, 877 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 18220 times:

If the details in the Air NZ Investor Day Presentation and the ATW Online report are correct then the 777-200ER upgrade will now take between three and five weeks per aircraft instead of eight.

Air NZ Investor Day Presentation (26 November 2010):

Quote:
Boeing 777-200ER Reconfiguration ---- FY12 (2) ---- FY13 (6) ----

ATW Online (23 December 2010):

Quote:
.......... and will now refurbish its eight 777-200ERs with the new interior rolled out in its first 777-300ER. That upgrade will be completed by the end of 2012.

The last 6 aircraft will be completed between 01 Jul 2012 and 31 Dec 2012. If the 3rd is completed one week into July that would leave 25 weeks for the remaining five aircraft at five weeks each. That would be the maximum. If they were to be completed for the Northern Winter Timetable then an upgrade every three to four weeks would be necessary.

Is the upgrade work now being contracted out?

PA515


User currently offlinepilotdude09 From Australia, joined May 2005, 1777 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 18179 times:

Are there any interior pics of the new 773? or is there still only the mock up photos?

Cheers



Qantas, Still calling Australia Home.........
User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 18166 times:

My understanding - and I can't identify my source - is that Air NZ has been warned that the 787-9 may slip as far as 2016 delivery.

The airline had numerous 777 options, but doesn't want more 77Ws. Boeing appears to have offered a mixture of compensation and other discounts to replace the 763 fleet (which the airline considers only a stopgap until around 2013) in order to supply Air NZ with four more 77E aircraft and four 77L aircraft. Also on the table is six more 77E aircraft in order to retire the 747 next year.

It would appear then that by 2012 Air New Zealand could be operating four 77W, either twelve or eighteen 77E (depending upon whether they retire the 744) and four 77L.

The key to understanding this is that the 763 was never intended to be kept beyond 2013, and neither was the 744. The airline won't refurbish either, and is open to the idea of replacement instead.

There has been some extremely tough negotiation going on, because when Airbus negotiated the new A320 order it also offered to provide A330s in 2011 to replace the leased 77E fleet and the 763 and 744 fleet as an interim arrangement until the A350 is available.

The 77Ls, by the way, would initially be used on AKL-SFO and AKL-YVR, and would have a much more premium-based configuration than the 77Es which fly to Asia.


User currently onlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12432 posts, RR: 37
Reply 17, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 18130 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 16):
The 77Ls, by the way, would initially be used on AKL-SFO and AKL-YVR, and would have a much more premium-based configuration than the 77Es which fly to Asia.

What about new routes originally intended to be operated by the 789? Would they still wait for the 789 before starting these?

If the delay to the 789 is actually to 2016, this must be a huge blow to ANZ - but what an opportunity for Airbus, because if there are no more serious delays to the A359, then it could conceivably enter service before the 789!


User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8552 posts, RR: 13
Reply 18, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 18095 times:
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Quoting koruman (Reply 16):
Also on the table is six more 77E aircraft in order to retire the 747 next year.

If that is the case why did they just buy one of the 744s off the lessor ( according to numerous reports ) - seems strange to buy , even at a knockdown price ) something you are planning to retire within 12 months .



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 18084 times:

I simply cannot explain the recent 744 purchase. Except, perhaps, that any 77L or 330 acquisition is not yet agreed, and is a contingency in case 789 delivery slips to the wrong side of a red line.

The airline has really struggled to balance 747 and 77E utilization to North America. On the one hand, no one disputes that the 77E is a much more efficient aircraft. But the 744 has far more Business Premier and Premium Economy seats, and hence tends to make significantly bigger profits, and I understand that the 77E is payload-restricted at times anyway on the YVR route, which is why they use the 744 most of the time.

I would have thought that you would use the 77L to operate new routes like AKL-PER-LHR or AKL-ORD, but no, the routes I was told were YVR and SFO.


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6417 posts, RR: 38
Reply 20, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 18066 times:

Quoting pilotdude09 (Reply 15):

Probably later today. Or wait for a trip report, possibly one from me.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineNZdsgnr From New Zealand, joined Jul 2008, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 18039 times:

interior shots it seems??

http://www.airlinereporter.com/2010/...r-on-thier-first-boeing-777-300er/


User currently offlineNZdsgnr From New Zealand, joined Jul 2008, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 18014 times:

Great bathroom 77W hahah

http://www.flickr.com/photos/airline...84645285/in/set-72157625531665351/


User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 4954 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 17997 times:

Quoting pilotdude09 (Reply 15):
because when Airbus negotiated the new A320 order it also offered to provide A330s in 2011 to replace the leased 77E fleet and the 763 and 744 fleet as an interim arrangement until the A350 is available.

Since NZ has according to reports, renegotiated their 77E leases I assume they did not take up the A330 offer. In any event it's range would not work for NZ.

Quoting koruman (Reply 16):
The 77Ls, by the way, would initially be used on AKL-SFO and AKL-YVR, and would have a much more premium-based configuration than the 77Es which fly to Asia

Is this in anticipation that they would be moved to ULH routes where more premium seating would be in higher demand? The three AI aircraft might fit the bill with help from Boeing.

Quoting koruman (Reply 19):
I simply cannot explain the recent 744 purchase.

I saw it explained , perhaps in Pprune that the $15m buyout was less money than what it would cost to return it to the leasor under the terms of the lease.


User currently offlinecchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1759 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 17980 times:

If NZ orders more 77E or 77L in the coming months, how soon will they get it?

Quoting koruman (Reply 16):
because when Airbus negotiated the new A320 order it also offered to provide A330s in 2011 to replace the leased 77E fleet and the 763 and 744 fleet as an interim arrangement until the A350 is available.

Does the 332 have the range to do the routes the 77E fleet is doing? I think it would be rather unlikely we will see widebody Airbuses in the NZ fleet as it means the fleet will be a mess with a mixture of various Airbus and Boeing types.

Quoting koruman (Reply 16):
The key to understanding this is that the 763 was never intended to be kept beyond 2013, and neither was the 744. The airline won't refurbish either, and is open to the idea of replacement instead.

IMHO, the 763 may be kept until they are going to be scrapped. With the delivery of 788, a lot of 2nd hand 763s from other airlines will be out there, the 2nd had market for these planes won't look good. It would be more economical for NZ to use them until they are no longer usable. There is very little mention of the 763 in the investor presentation in Nov except to say they will remain in the fleet. Probably NZ has not decided what to do with them.

Quoting koruman (Reply 16):
The airline won't refurbish either, and is open to the idea of replacement instead.

The 744 product will need to be upgraded after they have finished with the 77E, if the 744s are to be retained. The 763 only need routine maintenance to replace broken seats as the product is the same as the 320 product which isn't heading for an upgrade, if my understanding is correct.


25 kiwiandrew : I believe that as the 744s are only being kept as an interim measure that there is no intention of refitting them with the new 77W interiors .
26 mariner : I very much doubt that the A330 would solve the immediate problem. I can't imagine there are many early delivery slots available. But I am puzzled ab
27 koruman : Can I just flesh out what I wrote before, then add my interpretation? The 763 and 744 fleets will not be refurbished, but rather will be replaced no l
28 cchan : Yes for the 744, but what are the advantages for NZ to retire the 763 in 2013 when they probably worth next than nothing in the 2nd hand market by th
29 mariner : I must have missed that, but interesting if they have. I'd love to read about that offer but I've done a search and can't find anything. Do you have
30 koruman : Mariner, you misunderstand my posts. Boeing has made confidential offers of compensation for the late 789 delivery, and Airbus has also had private di
31 mariner : Ah - absolute confusion on my part. I knew about the Boeing compensation discussions, but I knew nothing about any Airbus offer and I thought the dis
32 sunrisevalley : On the face of it I am skeptical of the A333 in NZ's context as a one on one replacement for a 77E. For interim lift or to take the 763's out of the f
33 Post contains images aerorobnz : Just a few of my photos from this morning...
34 NZ1 : No. All this work is planned to be carried out in AKL. Correct. No further work will be done to the 744 at present. NZ1
35 Post contains images NZ107 : What a great vantage spot. Nice pics! This is what I managed:
36 NZdsgnr : the titles just get lost on such a long white plane!
37 joelyboy911 : Hi everyone, just a quick introduction for me, my name is Joel, I've been reading this thread for a while now, and for Christmas I decided to buy myse
38 cchan : Welcome to a.net What is the booking class as shown on your ticket? This will determine whether you can upgrade or not. If my understanding is correc
39 joelyboy911 : Thanks It seems, because of the way the flight has been booked, I am not able to view the E-ticket, either. I guess I may have to wait and find out.
40 koruman : Welcome to anet. All NZ tickets end in H, so there is no clue carried in that. Chances are that you are in a discount economy fare bucket. That's fine
41 joelyboy911 : Haha, That shows how much I know! Thanks for answering my queries, and for the welcome. Hopefully my standby upgrade will come through for me, those
42 NZ107 : Chances are that it won't - it's all about your status usually, unless he's a looooong way up the pecking order and does something... Depending on wh
43 A330NZ : Hi, I'm Josh and I'm new to a.net, but have been reading this thread for a while now. I was wondering, with all the 789 delays and replacement aircraf
44 gasman : The official answer would be no - however my entire family of 5 recently got standby upgrades from LAX-AKL on the back of my Gold status. I'd say you
45 RichardJF : 77L is a good idea for NZ. But 10 abreast in the 77W?..... at the end of the day NZ can't possibly compete on price especially to LHR. They should be
46 zkojh : only routes out of CHC that could work with the 789 could be HKG and the re-start of LAX.
47 NZ107 : The latter of which sounds the more feasible of the two but there aren't many other routes that seem likely to be done by NZ out of CHC with new plan
48 A330NZ : Ok, I thought NRT might work because NZ have a seasonal link, but only from NRT-CHC, not the other way round.
49 joelyboy911 : Are the 789s still planned to be used to retire the 763s? This must determine how many new routes the 789 can open. If the 763s will remain in the fle
50 cchan : Capacity wise, the 789 is much larger than the 763. It would not be a direct replacement of the 763, but will most likely take over some routes curre
51 NZ107 : You see, NZ sends the Japanese tourists into CHC, a gateway to ZQN. From there, they make their way up the country and eventually fly out from AKL. T
52 cchan : It makes me wonder whether the PEK and PVG flights will eventually get a CHC stop since most of the passengers are Chinese tourists. I would vote the
53 xiaotung : Not gonna happen. The routing of Japanese routes are driven by the service agreement between JL and Japanese government and NZ otherwise it will be d
54 airnewzealand : Hi Guys, Merry Christmas... Here are the dates for the deliveries (planned entry into service) of the next THREE Jetconnect-Qantas 737-800 and rego's.
55 aerorobnz : I was thinking like you when I heard, but I have had it explained to me by someone in the know, and it does make sense to me now but I can't divulge
56 sunrisevalley : Was the explanation that I reported in posting 23 in the ball park? It makes perfect sense to me. Any scuttlebutt within the company that NZ will app
57 TravellerPlus : The brother in law and his fiancee arrived in NZ for a whanau X-mas. It was his fiancee's first trip to New Zealand. He flew over on NZ and was rather
58 cchan : Thanks for the info. How many 734 will still be in the fleet by the end of 2011? I suspect AKL-HKG-LHR will be one of the first routes to get the 789
59 Post contains images aerorobnz : This may have been a factor. There are several factors involved. I think you'll find regardless of South America the EDTO 240 will be applied for. Fo
60 NZ107 : I personally don't see them wasting a 789 on that run when they can still keep operating the 772 on that route - save the 789s for the new routes whi
61 NZ1 : None. After completing a major check in CHC, it will return to QF in Australia as VH-TJZ. NZ1
62 QF744ER : NZ1, Any idea which 744 was involved in the $15m deal? Also what's the planned order of the 744 fleet withdrawal? I read on a recent trip report on he
63 ZK-NBT : SUH. The other staying aircraft is NBV.
64 cchan : That's great, thank you. I think that will depend on the economy of the world when the 789 is delivered (that could be another 5 years away). In an e
65 NZ107 : But we know that Rob Fyfe has already said that there have been lost opportunities by the delay of the 787. Growth is a word that hasn't been seen at
66 ZK-NBT : I think that will depend on what NZ decide to do with future orders/deliveries. Weather they order more 77Ws and how long the 772s stay in the fleet,
67 joelyboy911 : When the 789 is used to start new routes, will we see any new 5th freedom routes to any new European destinations? And do you think they would be rout
68 kiwiinoz : Hi I have been trawling youtube looking for an old Air NZ ad, I think from the 90's. It featured birds, but is NOT the more famous one with the flock
69 sunrisevalley : The 77L would have significant implications for NZ's cargo market. It has the potential of not being volume limited. Take ORD-AKL . Assuming NZ fit t
70 aflyingkiwi : I highly doubt that NZ will add any new destinations/fifth freedom routes to a new European destination. I think if they did add a new destination in
71 sunrisevalley : I think the 789 is too far away from EIS . By that time (new) UA will be well entrenched on the IAH-AKL route . It is hard to see both destinations b
72 Unclekoru : Agree on both counts, IAH is the better of the two and the market will not support both routes. Would love to see the 77L at NZ. Possibly a fantastic
73 alangirvan : Question might be - where is AirNZ missing out? Qantas has had some very good accounts out of Wellington, which might be once reason why they have Bu
74 NZ1 : SUH is staying. Next aircraft to go is NBT and NBU if I remember rightly, followed by SUJ, then NBW. Fleet will only have SUH and NBV in the medium t
75 kiwiandrew : They could do it , but they have chosen not to , presumably they felt that it did not make economic sense to run a J class cabin on the A320s when on
76 TravellerPlus : I think the corporate account factor may be overplayed as most organisations no-longer sanction J class for such a short sector. The real beenfit is
77 sunrisevalley : Lease the three from AI , refit to 44J/50Y+/ 165Y after the first 3 or 4 77E's ( for AKL-HKG-LHR) . Don' refit the 77E's needed for China and Japan u
78 cchan : Even better, get some new ones from Boeing. Any idea whether the AI aircrafts are in good condition?
79 PA515 : Could the NZCAA treat the 77W and 77L as the same aircraft for EDTO purposes? Same engines, wings, systems etc. It would speed up the EDTO approval p
80 alangirvan : Note that Jetstar is starting AKL-SIN. I have not seen if Qantas will be codesharing on that service, but that would feed passengers onto Qantas serv
81 NZ107 : I would have thought that QF would like their passengers to remain going via Aussie on full QF services.. It'd be an interesting decision to see them
82 cchan : The only advantage of going on JetStar is that there is one less change of aircraft, but it is not really worthwhile if you are paying the same fare.
83 NZ107 : QF don't want to lose out on revenue by linking that flight with their services onwards from SIN! I'm sure that they can fill up the seats without ne
84 ANstar : I'd say they will sell AKL-SIN-LHR as well as AKL-SIN-BOM/HKT/MNL/HKG and all the other JQ destiantions ex SIN
85 koruman : I think with AKL-HKG-LHR the question is whether it will survive at all, as it uses up 7 weekly LHR slot pairs yet has had to be downguaged in both si
86 Unclekoru : Even on these routes, Bruce Parton was quoted as saying sales averaged only two seats per flight. Not sure I agree with you on this point, the QF bra
87 Kaiarahi : I don't see why both destinations wouldn't be offered by * carriers, since they offer different connections and advantages and the 789 (when it gets
88 Post contains images Kaiarahi : When did PEK and PVG move to Japan?
89 PA515 : When you took Reply 53 out of context. Needs to be read in conjunction with the earlier comments about NRT-CHC etc. PA515
90 PA515 : Looking at NZCAA Rule Part 121.961 'Requirements for EDTO more than 240 minutes .....', I interpret this as saying EDTO 330 can be achieved after 24
91 Post contains images sunrisevalley : Thanks for pointing this out . My error in interpreting that 2-years was required at 180-min.
92 Unclekoru : Mt Cook's AT7's will be overnighting in Napier on Sun-Wed nights from mid Feb. The aircraft will operate into NPE from AKL on Sun and WLG on the other
93 TravellerPlus : It's New Year's Eve and I'm wishfully thinking of what I'd like to see in the skies during 2011. Top of the list is an Air NZ aircraft in an historic
94 sunrisevalley : What will the seating be in NZ's refitted 77E's? Should I assume they will be 10-wide?
95 aflyingkiwi : Yup, It'll be 10 abreast in Y. I believe they'll have the same product that is on the 77W's (Premium Economy Spaceseats, New Business Premier seating
96 cchan : It makes me wonder when will they be turning their 763s to 2-4-2!
97 Post contains links and images mariner : A very interesting read in CAPA about Air NZ's new "onboard experience" - essentially, the new cabin: http://www.centreforaviation.com/new...nnovation
98 PA515 : Just had a look at the Dec 2011 Air NZ Timetable. AKL-LAX gets the 4th 77W on NZ5/NZ6 Wed Fri Sun (eff. 02 Dec) AKL-PEK gets an extra flight on Tue. S
99 sunrisevalley : what is the AKL-SFO'/YVR schedule for eff. December 2011?
100 Post contains links NZ107 : Just some more links to pics and stuff from Air NZ's delivery flight to LAX: http://nycaviation.com/2010/12/game-...new-zealands-new-boeing-777-300er/
101 joelyboy911 : This is certainly good news, hopefully this is an indication of rising demand. SFO and YVR served with a mix of 744 and 77E?
102 cchan : I think it is a bit too early to speculate on the demand. It has happened in previous years that some HKG-LHR-HKG flights were dropped closer to the
103 alangirvan : I was reading Airports of the World magazine, their article about Nadi Airport. They say that AirPacific will be taking a couple of Singapore Airlines
104 Post contains images NZ107 : Royal Brunei already send their 772s to AKL: Unless you're meaning at the exact same time.. Which wouldn't be the case unless SQ281/282 were heavily
105 aerorobnz : A 30min delay on the part of SQ is all it would take for them to overlap schedules, hardly what I'd call a major delay. It already happens on the day
106 PA515 : AKL-SFO Daily 744 AKL-YVR Wed Fri Sun 744 The Trans Tasman sectors appear to be default schedules from the previous period. AKL-BNE Thu Sat 744, no A
107 zkojh : Air New Zealand once again is operating weekly Sydney – Rarotonga nonstop service. In 2011, the weekly Boeing 767-300ER service between Australia an
108 zkojh : Emirates today ( JAN 02-2011) raised the total number of seats it flies in and out of New Zealand. From today, the airline has replaced the previous A
109 kiwiinoz : It's quite amazing really. Last week when I left AKL there was an A380, A345 and a 773 pulled into the gates at the same time!
110 AKLRNO : Is there any chance that the 767's business class could be upgraded to have the herringbone style seats that are in the 777 and 747? I just flew AKL-P
111 Kaiarahi : See posts 11, 12.
112 cchan : When I was in RAR last year, locals who work at the hotels were saying that these flights brought in a substantial number of tourists from Australia.
113 Unclekoru : The 763 is the one NZ Wide body aircraft that I have not travelled in business class on. However, from what I read/hear, it is starting to seem out o
114 IndianicWorld : Damn. Thats some serious capacity on offer. How is that being filled?
115 aflyingkiwi : It would be nice if the 763 gets a better product but they would have to go through the bother of creating a new product (The herringbone layout is t
116 CHCalfonzo : Less than half go to DXB and beyond. If you look at BITRE figures they show a load factor of around 55% for EK over the tasman. This only includes O&
117 planemanofnz : Saw the first China Airlines flight come in the other day - most of the passengers seemed to be kiwis travelling to/from BNE and not TPE. I also find
118 aerorobnz : Was at the arrival of the 2nd flight today. Very lurid pastel interior. I concur with your observation though. Fully loaded flight though.
119 Unclekoru : If the 787-9 is still five years away, then maybe it is worth the effort? Although as you point out, there are possibly restrictions on what is achie
120 Post contains links gardermoen : China Southern alters CAN-AKL routing according to airlineroute.net http://airlineroute.net/2011/01/04/cz-akl-s11updat/ It is now non-stop three times
121 zkojh : As per 04JAN11 GDS timetable display, initial changes to Air New Zealand’s International Northern Winter 2011/12 season as follows. Note most change
122 NZ107 : Very interesting! Wow, direct flights to CAN. I wonder how well this will be supported, seeing NZ were looking to open it with 787s. Was mentioned an
123 aerorobnz : maybe so they can reuse the other numbers. To be honest I don't know...
124 kaitak : Just looking for info on spotting at Queenstown and AKL and maybe some of you familiar with these airports could help? 1) ZQN seems to be quite a smal
125 gardermoen : Quoting zkojh (Reply 121): any Idea's why the flight numbers on the china routes have now got a ''2'' in front of them?? What's also odd is that the i
126 NZ107 : The top floor of the multi level carpark ouside the domestic terminal is a good spot if you don't have transport. Puhunui Rd is really hard to get to
127 aerorobnz : I'm sure it was meant to read NZ286 ex PEK it's an easy walk....I used to do it all the time from international before I had a car... There's also an
128 IndianicWorld : The CAN-MEL-AKL appeared to be 3 additional flights, on top of the daily CAN-MEL terminator services. With CZ, I really would not be surprised if thi
129 planemanofnz : Yeah. First it was CAN-BNE-AKL, then CAN-MEL-AKL, now CAN-AKL, I wouldn't be surprised if the service does not go ahead. Oh, did you fly in from BNE?
130 NZ107 : It's not feasible if you're short on time though.. I did it once when the QF A380 came to town. It worked out because there was a huge traffic jam up
131 Kaiarahi : I've asked this several times before, but never received an answer. AC has a 24 seat lie-flat herringbone in J on its 763s. Are NZ's 763s structurall
132 aerorobnz : No. I work at AKL...
133 sunrisevalley : Probably this option. Don't forget AC have two seating versions of their XM'd 763's. Clearly for routes grouped in two different sector lengths.
134 Kaiarahi : Right. The 24J/187Y config has no crew rest, the 25J/166Y does. I've never flown NZ's 763s, but from the seat map, it looks like there could be crew
135 PA515 : Perhaps Air NZ will replace the 763 with the 77E on longer overnight flights and just use the 763 for Trans Tasman and Regional Pacific flying. AKL-K
136 aflyingkiwi : It is a tough decision for NZ management but I stand by what I said. Even if the 787 won't be here for 5 years I just don't think that they will go t
137 sunrisevalley : Is -OKM doing any flying before EIS on Jan 10th.?
138 PA515 : Some 77L's for 2012 delivery would also solve the problem. Any 77L's need to be in service with Air NZ for at least two years before they can get EDT
139 NZ6 : I can assure you there will be no A321's in NZ"s color. What routes would benefit from lie flat seats on a 763? PERAKL? HNLAKL? would that be it? Als
140 zkojh : How soon could (nz) get the cheque book out. if they order 77L's next couple of months how soon could they arrive.. Over time think we can see the 763
141 koruman : AKL-PPT is a real anachronism, and possibly shouldn't survive. If you recall, PPT-LAX is premium heavy, and suitable for a 777 with Business Premier a
142 Post contains images zkeoj : and the "types-landscape" gets more boring again... Happy New Year! micha
143 alangirvan : If they do follow AirNZ practice, any A321s taken by AirNZ will be the last ones on the production line before Airbus switches over to producing the
144 mariner : That's a pity. On the high density mid range flights such as trans-Tasman the A321 would be extremely cost efficient. mariner
145 cchan : It is a 763 most of the year.
146 aotearoa : I'm interested in the comments re the A321 sutablity, or otherwise, on the Tasman. Once the 767 leaves the NZ fleet, there will be signifcant gap in t
147 NZ1 : No it's not. NZ1
148 Unclekoru : HNL-AKL KIX-AKL (or CHC) PPT-AKL (debateable) LAX-RAR PER-AKL
149 Kaiarahi : This was debated a couple of threads ago. There's almost no O&D traffic between HNL-YYZ. AC dropped the route years ago.
150 PA515 : Air NZ had two 77W options for 2012 delivery which have not been deferred or cancelled to my knowledge. These could be changed to 77L's. The 4th 77W
151 cchan : In leaving the registrations OKI, OKJ, OKK, and OKL for further 772 suggested they already had something in mind at that time.
152 LondonCity : It is impressive, but not surprising when you consider the number of destinations (both main and secondary) in UK/mainland Europe which are served by
153 aerohottie : Ummm why not??? The A321 seems like a great aircraft for post NZ/DJ alliance tasman routes. My thoughts exactly. Why not CNS and RAR?... both seem to
154 kiwiandrew : I am guessing that NZ has decided to "keep it simple" and stick to one member of the A320 family ( in much the same way that they went for the A320 d
155 zkojh : isn't there a Results Announcement around feb time for the last 6 month made to the NZSX? this would be the time to talk extra aircraft. already have
156 777ER : I thought the extra B744 was from the current fleet and NZ have purchased it from the leasing company? Isn't the 2x B777s from SQ simply speculation
157 NZ107 : They can make announcements whenever they like.. There's no need to wait for something like that to make a decision. An earnings report doesn't usual
158 sunrisevalley : Ed Simms was quoted as saying in Seattle that they were waiting for a revised delivery date from Boeing before determining their next move.. There ar
159 Post contains links and images NZ5 : ZK-OKN has been on the ramp for a couple of weeks now. Nice air shot.
160 NZ107 : Delivery has got to be soon, right?
161 aerorobnz : A few weeks off yet....
162 NZ5 : I think February is the due date from memory? Something about two month separation between OKM, OKN and OKO.
163 PA515 : It's supposed to be January. OKM was due in November and was rolled out on time in October, but it was delivered a month late! PA515
164 aflyingkiwi : On a related note, does anyone know when the first new NZ A320 is due for delivery. Regards aflyingkiwi
165 Post contains links Haggis73 : 31st Jan according to NZ1 on this thread.
166 b767erwinglets : planemanofnz From New Zealand, joined Sep 2005, 1650 posts, RR: 0 Reply 117, posted Mon Jan 3 2011 02:37:21 your local time (3 days 2 hours 10 minutes
167 aotearoa : I have asked around...................the arrival date is now the 1st February. I'm unsure of the time, however this is likely to be mid to later aft
168 cchan : Any idea when the 2nd new A320 will arrive? Thanks.
169 planemanofnz : 25 NZ passport holders only? Source? I can tell you now that far more than '25' passengers on that initial flight were using the direct exit at Custo
170 aerorobnz : Dual citizenship....can be TWN passport holder and NZ passport holder. Out of TPE use TWN into AKL use NZL. it makes sense does it not?
171 Post contains links cchan : If I am not mistaken, NZL residents can also use those. They could be Taiwan passport holders with a returning residence visa. On another note, the C
172 Unclekoru : Perhaps not, and and as you point out it may well be beyond the realms of what is technically possible. However, the 744's where refitted and they on
173 planemanofnz : No. Only New Zealand and Australian passport holders can use the direct exit lanes - residents and students of both countries must use the all passpo
174 zkojh : anyone know who is doing the groundwork for CZ at AKL in April?
175 xiaotung : Also what lounge CZ will be using? I think they use the NZ lounge at SYD.
176 aotearoa : I belive this is due into AKL later in feb (like the last 1/3 of the month), however I understand that Airbus and Boeing will only confirm the delive
177 aotearoa : I believe the tech crew CEA covers the entire A320 series, so from the airlines perspective, they are already paying for the A321....... This is proa
178 cchan : Thanks for the info. From looking at online booking, WLG seems to be seeing most of these A320 flights from AKL.
179 sunrisevalley : A couple of questions; first, what will the seat count be when the NZ 772's are refitted? Second, does NZ have 2-classes of catering aboard their 763'
180 aerorobnz : yes. I take it you refer to 763s used shorthaul... they have c class catering
181 NZ5 : Side note, who's heading on the first 77W flight tomorrow morning? From memory I think NZ107 is but is anyone else? I seem to have struck bad luck as
182 NZ107 : Delayed until Tuesday but yes, I'm on it.
183 pilotdude09 : Well from flicking through this thread I really hope NZ looks at 77L's for AKL-PER-LHR and JNB even onto India would be great, The LHR market would go
184 SXI899 : Anyone in a position to explain why the OAB (plus all of the other A320s) are delivered westbound out of Toulouse? Strikes me a less efficient than go
185 alangirvan : Would LHR-PER in a 10abreast 777-200LR be a comfortable ride? Non stop? I suppose Perth people are used to flying in the Emirates 777s with 10ab seat
186 NZ107 : A workmate of mine who is over 6 ft and flew EK AKL-DXB-India on the 77W - he told me it was fine, in fact better than what he'd imagined. I still do
187 aerohottie : 6ft, but how are their shoulders??? NZers aren't the slightest people on the planet...
188 sunrisevalley : Are there any provisions for 5th Freedom traffic in the NZL-India bilateral air agreement ? I believe I read in conjunction with the possibility of u
189 airnewzealand : Hiya folks, I recently operated a BOM sector, and got talking to the ground staff whilst we were waiting for passengers... He told me that Air New Zea
190 NZ107 : Seeing HKG-LHR is going back to daily, I definitely can't see BOM via HKG.
191 DavidByrne : It tallies with the carrier's suggestions that BOM would be a new NZ destination served nonstop with the 789 - and with the rumours that NZ might get
192 planemanofnz : AKL-MEL-BOM would work best I think. Other potential transit points could be PER, BNE and CGK.
193 PA515 : AKL-HKG-LHR 18,802 kms, AKL-PER-LHR 19,847 kms. That's an extra 1,045 kms or about 1 hr 20 min. From early Dec 2011 there are about 4 77E days unaccou
194 sunrisevalley : Could they have this interim lift in place in less than one year? This makes sense. I wonder what use will be made of the 4 spare 77W days. It could
195 PA515 : That should be 4 spare 77E days. QF does BNE-SIN-BOM 3 days a week, connecting at SIN with flights to/from the rest of Australia. I doubt NZ would to
196 777ER : If 77Ls are being added by Dec, then second hand ones will certainly be added. What airlines are currently selling 77Ls?
197 aerorobnz : AI x3. 2007 Builds.
198 PA515 : AI had three 2007 77L's for sale but withdrew them saying the the bids were too low. If Air NZ went for 77L's I think it would prefer new aircraft as
199 Post contains links CHCalfonzo : Singapore Airlines expands to daily services SQ will operate daily to CHC this winter instead of their usual 5pw.
200 aerorobnz : NZ I'm sure does want new aircraft to fit with the new interior and maintain, and I'm sure they would only lease rather than own. But possibly there
201 Zkpilot : I'd like to see AKL-PER-BOM with 77E leaving the 77L to operate to YVR or wherever. If there is going to be an Oz stop then its a waste to use a 77L
202 sunrisevalley : Other than the three from AI [quote=aerorobnz,reply=200]I'm sure you'll find that EDTO 240 will have been approved before any 77L arrive in the fleet.
203 aerorobnz : I'll try and clarify with someone, but I understand that provided they get it certified 90 days before they operate it on EDTO 240min it can be inclu
204 sunrisevalley : I will be interested in what you find out. Reference to the appropriate clause from Part 121 Amendment 21 would be useful.
205 Post contains links darenw : Check out the youtube video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxjK-w3w-Z4&feature=sub
206 alangirvan : I think a YouTube video will be the closest Dunedin passengers will come to seeing a domestic A320 this year. How long will we have to wait until we g
207 Post contains links NZ1 : Please see here for the next installment: New Zealand Aviation Thread #90 (by PA515 Jan 11 2011 in Civil Aviation) NZ1
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