Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Iberia Returning To Asunción  
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Posted (4 years 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 8597 times:

According to Paraguay's Dirección Nacional de Aviación Civil, Iberia will reinstate services into Asunción during the second half of 2011 after a 15 year absence. IB will operate into Asunción via Córdoba, Argentina. Paraguay has offered IB incentives such as reduced landing and takeoff fees in order to secure the carrier's services.

Link in Spanish: http://www.abc.com.py/nota/aerolinea...a-en-paraguay-desde-el-2011-dicen/

21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offline330lover From Belgium, joined Jul 2008, 604 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 8427 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Thread starter):
Asunción via Córdoba

seems strange, COR is quite further than ASU. Would be more logic to operate MAD-ASU-COR.
Unless they make it triangular MAD-COR-ASU-MAD.

[Edited 2010-12-24 06:44:33]


Britten Norman Islander VP-FBR on Falkland Islands. THAT'S FLYING!
User currently offlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4620 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (4 years 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 8358 times:

GRU is one of the current gateway linking Paraguay and Spain nowadays: ASU-GRU and then GRU-MAD. However, this arrangement is not properly timed by now on JJ, in spite of their daily services.
Another possibility is JJ ASU-SCL -LA is code-sharing ASU-SCL- and then LA SCL-MAD, even though backtracking to Chile doesn't seem to be the easiest choice.




.

Quoting 330lover (Reply 1):
Unless they make it triangular MAD-COR-ASU-MAD.

It might be considering the coming triangular IB MAD-FOR-REC-MAD 3x weekly, which is due to start on February 01st.
I don't think that the services to Paraguay would operate on a daily basis.

Regards.



"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
User currently offlinerealsim From Spain, joined Apr 2010, 663 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 8277 times:

Quoting 330lover (Reply 1):
seems strange, COR is quite further than ASU. Would be more logic to operate MAD-ASU-COR.
Unless they make it triangular MAD-COR-ASU-MAD.

From a geographic point of view, it would make sense to operate MAD-ASU-COR-ASU-MAD, but maybe IB wants to keep COR non-stop because it is a more wealthy market and with higher yields.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 2):
I don't think that the services to Paraguay would operate on a daily basis.

For sure it won't. COR is 3 weekly, so I guess ASU would also have that frequency.


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (4 years 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 8261 times:

Quoting 330lover (Reply 1):

Quoting SCL767 (Thread starter):
Asunción via Córdoba

seems strange, COR is quite further than ASU. Would be more logic to operate MAD-ASU-COR.
Unless they make it triangular MAD-COR-ASU-MAD.

Iberia plans on operating into ASU via COR on an experimental basis. IB currently operates MAD-COR-MAD 3x weekly, and would initially operate the route as MAD-COR-ASU-COR-MAD 3x weekly.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 2):
GRU is one of the current gateway linking Paraguay and Spain nowadays: ASU-GRU and then GRU-MAD. However, this arrangement is not properly timed by now on JJ, in spite of their daily services.
Another possibility is JJ ASU-SCL -LA is code-sharing ASU-SCL- and then LA SCL-MAD, even though backtracking to Chile doesn't seem to be the easiest choice.
IB also routes ASU pax via MVD on Pluna. However, ASU would like a direct service to MAD.

http://www.lanacion.com.py/articulo....a%20Dinac&edicion=2&sec=2&art=6014

Here is some more information on how IB is doing on the MAD-COR route. Apparently, the LFs in Business class are not as strong as they should be, "Durante octubre, mes de lanzamiento, la ocupación en la ruta fue del 82%, mientras que en noviembre, mes históricamente de baja, se ubicó en el 75%. Ahora esperan un repunte en diciembre y enero, meses de alta. Para Antonio Falcone, gerente de Iberia para Argentina y Uruguay, "los niveles de ocupación están dentro de los valores estimados por la compañía en los estudios previos. La ocupación en Business, tal como se suponía por las características de la ruta, está por debajo de la de Económica."
http://www.aerolatinnews.com/index.php?sector=noticias&noticia=20478

[Edited 2010-12-24 08:01:46]

User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4396 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (4 years 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 7971 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 4):
Apparently, the LFs in Business class are not as strong as they should be

The guy is saying that they are just what they were expecting:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 4):
La ocupación en Business, tal como se suponía por las características de la ruta, está por debajo de la de Económica."

Congrats to Paraguay. I'm not too familiar with the paraguayan diaspora, but I know most of them are in Miami. What has been going on with AA's planned return to ASU?


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (4 years 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 7890 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 5):
Congrats to Paraguay. I'm not too familiar with the paraguayan diaspora, but I know most of them are in Miami. What has been going on with AA's planned return to ASU?

MIA-ASU is mostly VFR. Paraguay would like to see an increase in flights into ASU. Dinac has already approved CM to operate PTY-ASU and LAN to operate LIM-ASU. It states in one of the articles that AA has shown an interest in returning to Paraguay, but it still remains, "distant". Travel agents in Paraguay still charge 6 percent commission on tickets which serves as a deterrent for AA, CM and LP to fly into ASU. However, AA and LAN will eventually return to ASU since their economy is experiencing robust growth.


User currently offlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4620 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (4 years 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 7776 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 4):
IB also routes ASU pax via MVD on Pluna. However, ASU would like a direct service to MAD.

PU ASU-MVD is getting different departing hours out of ASU and this arrangement cannot match perfectly with IB MVD-MAD.
Consider that IB does not fly to MVD every day by now. Thus, dedicated flights linking [Paraguay and Spain] would alleviate the hassle to connect either in Montevideo, Sao Paulo, Buenos Aires or Santiago.

Regards.



"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
User currently offlineCODCAIAH From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 177 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 7705 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 5):
I'm not too familiar with the paraguayan diaspora, but I know most of them are in Miami.

Actually, the ones who are in the US are mostly in New York and New Jersey, not Florida. (according to the latest American Community Survey)

And a lot of Paraguayan emigrants are also in Spain-- not sure of the numbers, but from informal conversations with people who have a good sense of the Paraguayan community outside of Paraguay, it's significant.

By far the most are in Argentina and Brazil.

This new service to MAD is great news for ASU and Paraguay in general. Now if only AA would return or another US carrier began service.



CO/IAH-loyalist happily driven into the arms of WN/HOU
User currently offlineb737100 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 153 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 7204 times:

will IB have 5th freedom rights on COR/ASU?


Boeing 737 sunjet service
User currently offlineDCAJet From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 446 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (4 years 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6651 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 4):

Here is some more information on how IB is doing on the MAD-COR route. Apparently, the LFs in Business class are not as strong as they should be,

"Durante octubre, mes de lanzamiento, la ocupación en la ruta fue del 82%, mientras que en noviembre, mes históricamente de baja, se ubicó en el 75%. Ahora esperan un repunte en diciembre y enero, meses de alta. Para Antonio Falcone, gerente de Iberia para Argentina y Uruguay, "los niveles de ocupación están dentro de los valores estimados por la compañía en los estudios previos. La ocupación en Business, tal como se suponía por las características de la ruta, está por debajo de la de Económica."
http://www.aerolatinnews.com/index.p...20478

That is not what the gentleman said - occupancy is within rates estimated by Iberia for the route and season.

Anyway, the whole MAD-COR-ASU-COR-MAD makes no sense. From a routing, planning, crew scheduling/rostering perspectives on IB's side - and if I were an ASU based pax - so much faster to fly to MAD via GRU.

I would take this announcement with a big grain of salt, as long as its sources are the Paraguay authorities. Until we hear from Iberia, a huge IF on this one.



"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
User currently offlineasuflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 136 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6573 times:

Quoting DCAJet (Reply 10):
would take this announcement with a big grain of salt, as long as its sources are the Paraguay authorities. Until we hear from Iberia, a huge IF on this one.


I would have to agree with this. ABC, who reported it is probably one of the least reliable news in regards to aviation. Anyways, anything the DINAC says is completely unreliable because is a very corrupt agency, and both the DINAC and ABC Digital have made up many false statements about aviation in the past.


User currently offlineCoronado990 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1614 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (4 years 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6530 times:

Quoting b737100 (Reply 9):
will IB have 5th freedom rights on COR/ASU?

Wow! I was wondering the same thing. Great minds think alike!



Uncle SAN at your service!
User currently offlineRAFVC10 From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 1980 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (4 years 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5824 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting SCL767 (Thread starter):
According to Paraguay's Dirección Nacional de Aviación Civil, Iberia will reinstate services into Asunción during the second half of 2011 after a 15 year absence. IB will operate into Asunción via Córdoba, Argentina. Paraguay has offered IB incentives such as reduced landing and takeoff fees in order to secure the carrier's services.



If it will come true then Bolivia will rest as the only non-served country in the Spanish LATAM without Iberia direct flights.

Will we ever see Iberia landing at VVI?

Regards and merry Xmas!

Gerard



El dia que los gilipollas vuelen, no podremos ver la luz del sol!
User currently offlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4620 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (4 years 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5394 times:

Quoting RAFVC10 (Reply 13):
If it will come true then Bolivia will rest as the only non-served country in the Spanish LATAM without Iberia direct flights.

Will we ever see Iberia landing at VVI?

5L VVI-MAD 3x weekly with 747 is already attending the market and it demonstrates by itself the existence of demand in such route.

Regards.



"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 15, posted (4 years 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5383 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting DCAJet (Reply 10):
Anyway, the whole MAD-COR-ASU-COR-MAD makes no sense. From a routing, planning, crew scheduling/rostering perspectives on IB's side - and if I were an ASU based pax - so much faster to fly to MAD via GRU.

Agreed, and the demand COR-ASU will be for sure limited. It would be better as IB wants to increase flights to Brazil, to introduce for example MAD-CNF-ASU or MAD-BSB-ASU or a redeye MAD-GIG-ASU.

The flight thru COR will be longer to the business market, and if they are looking into business, would be better to fly MAD-ASU-COR. I would say ASU may provide better yields being the capital and financial center of a country (even small)



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineDCAJet From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 446 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (4 years 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 5170 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 15):
I would say ASU may provide better yields being the capital and financial center of a country (even small)

ASU is an extremely low yielding market - hence why you can count the airlines that fly there with one hand, so not really sure about it being able to support a direct connection to Europe with better yields than COR. Although growing, the whole country of Paraguay's GDP is US$14.24B while the province of Cordoba's GDP is almost double, at US$27.7B. COR is a huge manufacturing center in Argentina, with many European companies located there. Interestingly enough and according to Iberia, during November, half of the tickets sold for the MAD-COR-MAD flights were sold in Europe. 63% of the passengers boarded in COR had Spain as their final destination, 35% someplace else in Europe.

http://www.aerolatinnews.com/index.php?sector=noticias&noticia=20478

Cheers,



"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 17, posted (4 years 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4822 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting DCAJet (Reply 16):

ASU is an extremely low yielding market - hence why you can count the airlines that fly there with one hand, so not really sure about it being able to support a direct connection to Europe with better yields than COR. Although growing, the whole country of Paraguay's GDP is US$14.24B while the province of Cordoba's GDP is almost double, at US$27.7B. COR is a huge manufacturing center in Argentina, with many European companies located there. Interestingly enough and according to Iberia, during November, half of the tickets sold for the MAD-COR-MAD flights were sold in Europe. 63% of the passengers boarded in COR had Spain as their final destination, 35% someplace else in Europe.

I'm not trying to compare the two markets but it seems to me that the routing thru COR is also longer for IB looking on a Cost basis. Paraguay lacks service to Europe (non-stop) and there's still government and a little business. My only point is because the service will not be interesting at all for low or any type of yield as will be at least 4h longer than any other option thru GRU for example.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineIAD380 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 804 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4739 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 4):
MAD-COR-ASU-COR-MAD
Quoting DCAJet (Reply 10):
MAD-COR-ASU-COR-MAD makes no sense. From a routing, planning, crew scheduling/rostering perspectives on IB's side

Additionally, when fuel prices rise, MAD-COR-ASU-COR-MAD would prove very costly and most likely make the route unprofitable.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 15):
It would be better as IB wants to increase flights to Brazil, to introduce for example MAD-CNF-ASU or MAD-BSB-ASU or a redeye MAD-GIG-ASU.

I agree, but would the current bilateral allow IB to fly to ASU from CNF, BSB, or even GIG?

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 7):
IB does not fly to MVD every day

Another possible option for IB is to fly MAD-ASU-MVD two or three time a week. Next summer, IB will fly MAD-MVD five times a week. Assuming demand for MVD is growing, IB could fly there daily, with four or five nonstop flights, and two or three flights that stop in ASU.


User currently offlineDCAJet From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 446 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (4 years 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4600 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 15):
I would say ASU may provide better yields being the capital and financial center of a country (even small)
Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 17):
I'm not trying to compare the two markets

My bad then - I thought your had. In any case, and not trying to belittle Paraguay, but the fact is that the local pax base that exists in ASU can't support a direct connection to Europe or the USA. It did work many moons ago, when BN, EA or IB could route a flight via ASU as it was just another stop on those endless milk runs from EZE to USA or Madrid when a stop in ASU may have made sense. And there was PZ, but without the connecting traffic from GRU/EZE/SCL looking for dirt cheap fares to MIA and Europe it could have not survived if had to rely on local traffic only - and even with connecting traffic it disappeared almost overnight the day the Paraguay government stopped the cash flow.

Rds,



"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
User currently offlinePu752 From Uruguay, joined Mar 2005, 584 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (4 years 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4540 times:

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 7):
Consider that IB does not fly to MVD every day by now.

You are right, but keep in mind that MVD-MAD is 6x weekly non-stop.

Quoting IAD380 (Reply 18):
Another possible option for IB is to fly MAD-ASU-MVD two or three time a week. Next summer, IB will fly MAD-MVD five times a week. Assuming demand for MVD is growing, IB could fly there daily, with four or five nonstop flights, and two or three flights that stop in ASU.

This would only help IB to loose valuable premium pax on the Uruguayan market, MVD can sustain itself without any tag, its proven though.



Also, this source its not reliable at all, if it was, AA should've started service last year, also Copa,etc.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 21, posted (4 years 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4502 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting IAD380 (Reply 18):
I agree, but would the current bilateral allow IB to fly to ASU from CNF, BSB, or even GIG?

They could. Spain-Brazil agreement grants IB the right to fly from REC, NAT, GIG, SSA, FOR or GRU to one of the following points: ASU, MVD, EZE and SCL with 5th freedom rights.
Brazilian routes can continue to FRA, BRU, AMS, 1 point in Oriental Europe plus 2 points in Middle East and/or Asia, to be determined.
It seems that MAD-Brazil-ASU is the best routing being MAD-BSB-ASU and MAD-GIG-ASU, in my view, the best options.

Quoting DCAJet (Reply 19):
My bad then - I thought your had. In any case, and not trying to belittle Paraguay, but the fact is that the local pax base that exists in ASU can't support a direct connection to Europe or the USA. It did work many moons ago, when BN, EA or IB could route a flight via ASU as it was just another stop on those endless milk runs from EZE to USA or Madrid when a stop in ASU may have made sense. And there was PZ, but without the connecting traffic from GRU/EZE/SCL looking for dirt cheap fares to MIA and Europe it could have not survived if had to rely on local traffic only - and even with connecting traffic it disappeared almost overnight the day the Paraguay government stopped the cash flow.

Not a problem, but i agree with you, ASU alone can't fill the plane with profits. They need COR or Brazil to be together with them. It would be nice if OW can use a single flight to feed their operations to MIA and MAD.
Thinking about Latam, ASU can be a big loser if JJ goes to OW as it will continue to be just a market that feeds LIM, GRU or GIG.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
CO 122 Returning To EWR 22 April 2010 posted Thu Apr 22 2010 22:04:42 by BP1
US22 (PHX-HNL) Returning To? Sunday 4/11 posted Sun Apr 11 2010 16:39:40 by Oak522
KLM F70 Returning To AMS posted Thu Apr 8 2010 12:26:32 by noelg
DL 738 Returning To ABQ In April? posted Fri Feb 5 2010 22:52:19 by 1337Delta764
DAL 72 Returning To JFK.. posted Sat Dec 26 2009 17:03:37 by Chris777
AF 007 Returning To JFK posted Fri Nov 27 2009 18:04:56 by 777Daedalus
Two More Stored 744BCFs Returning To Service posted Tue Nov 24 2009 02:32:08 by NA
Iberia Intends To Charge 4 Checked Bags posted Wed Oct 7 2009 15:39:28 by Chootie
Delta Mainline Returning To PVD posted Tue Sep 15 2009 07:16:55 by RL757PVD
United Mainline Returning To Miami posted Wed Sep 2 2009 19:35:17 by BA