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Man Arrested After Punching Boy On Flight  
User currently offlinezalemam From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 169 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 16053 times:

Man arrested after punching boy on flight from Las Vegas

"KBOI-TV reports witnesses told police the 15-year-old was playing games and listening to music on an iPhone when flight attendants instructed passengers to turn off their electronic devices. Boise police spokesman Charles McClure say the plane was leaving the Las Vegas airport at the time. Witnesses say when the teen didn't respond, Miller got angry and struck the boy in the arm."

Full story here : http://www.mynews3.com/story.php?id=34745&n=5037


Your thoughts on this report?

Like most reports we probably don't have the full story..

[Edited 2010-12-29 16:52:46]


Patience is Virtue
74 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAtlwest1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1046 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 16046 times:

Quoting zalemam (Thread starter):
Your thoughts on this report?

Working in the industry I see an increase in peoples tempers and attitudes. I think as long as people have to deal with delays getting to and from airports, family drama, holiday stresses, Tsa(yes they are a necessary function) and the customer service agent who didn't bend over backwards to help them these things will continue. I hope they make it alot more difficult for him to fly anywhere.



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co. or Airt
User currently offlineKMCIFAN From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 22 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 16032 times:

Typical media, the headline reads as if it was a little kid. He's a 68 year old man, haha. And also in the arm? I am sure the "kid" deserved it, maybe if he could follow directions this never would have happened.

User currently offlinenwafflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 1050 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 16001 times:

Interesting though, I was on a recent flight with my Kindle. I hold the kindle in my hand until we're at 10,000 feet when I turn it on and start to read. The man next to me complained that is could be a projectile if we had a problem (this before we even left the gate). I told him I had a firm hold of it, but to keep him happy, I had to put it in an overhead bin (after crawling over him to get to the aisle), then, once we were above 10,000 feet, he wouldn't let me out to get it, saying again, it was a dangerous projectile.

User currently offlinefalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6159 posts, RR: 29
Reply 4, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 15966 times:
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Quoting zalemam (Thread starter):
Witnesses say when the teen didn't respond, Miller got angry and struck the boy in the arm."

He's done what a lot of us would like to. The teen is such a wimp for even reporting it. If the "victim" was 18 or older would we even see this store. I see teens goofing off all the time, pushing each other into lockers and just general horse play. I did it and so did most other kids. I am sure this kid as done that kind of stuff too.

I am sure he'll grow up to be worthless because he is too good to listen to instructions and runs and tells as soon as he doesn't get his way.

I would like to see this kid get fined for not following directions of the FA. It is funny how people take aviation safety seriously until it inconveniences them. I see people who always where their seat belt, but want to sit there and text.
I have asked some people to put electronics away and they look at me like I'm crazy. The usual response is "it doesn't matter". If somebody lights up a smoke on the plane they get fined, if they get rowdy they get fined, if they disable a smoke detector they get fined. I am usually not one for government intervention, but if the industry sees this as a safety issue there needs to be a penalty for those who violate it.

I know I will make a lot of photographers mad on here because they too violate the rules when they take photos on landings and take off..... The good ole' days;no cell phones and fully manual 35mm SLRs.



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlinestlgph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9501 posts, RR: 26
Reply 5, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 15956 times:

Quoting KMCIFAN (Reply 2):

Typical media, the headline reads as if it was a little kid. He's a 68 year old man, haha.

?

it says "man arrested after punching boy on flight."

boy or teen is used for anyone under 18.
man is used for typically someone 20 or over no matter if they're "elderly" or a "senior citizen." those terms still get used, but sometimes lawsuits have been filed alleging "age bias."



if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
User currently offlineBladeLWS From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 403 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 15955 times:

Quoting nwafflyer (Reply 3):
Interesting though, I was on a recent flight with my Kindle. I hold the kindle in my hand until we're at 10,000 feet when I turn it on and start to read. The man next to me complained that is could be a projectile if we had a problem (this before we even left the gate). I told him I had a firm hold of it, but to keep him happy, I had to put it in an overhead bin (after crawling over him to get to the aisle), then, once we were above 10,000 feet, he wouldn't let me out to get it, saying again, it was a dangerous projectile.

At which point you should of told him to pound sand and that if he didn't like it to go complain to a FA.


User currently offlineZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3566 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 15955 times:
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Quoting nwafflyer (Reply 3):
The man next to me complained that is could be a projectile if we had a problem

LOL, but he's ok with the drinks trolley...



Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe
User currently offlinestlgph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9501 posts, RR: 26
Reply 8, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 15934 times:

Quoting nwafflyer (Reply 3):

that's b.s. and you should've had a throw down.



if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
User currently offlinezalemam From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 169 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 15934 times:

Quoting nwafflyer (Reply 3):
I told him I had a firm hold of it, but to keep him happy, I had to put it in an overhead bin (after crawling over him to get to the aisle), then, once we were above 10,000 feet, he wouldn't let me out to get it, saying again, it was a dangerous projectile.

Wow, thats just ridiculous. I would have made an excuse to use the lavatories, then got the kindle or complained to an FA or something...

[Edited 2010-12-29 17:04:42]


Patience is Virtue
User currently offlinenwafflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 1050 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 15881 times:

I am 'avoid issues' very frequent flyer. I do my best to follow the rules, when I am seated, my seat belt is always on (when I am sleeping on an international flight, I also always wear my seatbelt while lieing down). There are strange people out there - best is to avoid them if at all possible

User currently offlineKMCIFAN From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 22 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 15865 times:

Quoting stlgph (Reply 5):

I was only talking about the kid part, the 68 part was not about that. The man part was fine but kid, could they not have said teen or 15 year old, no because it will get more views if it says kid. Heck, when I only read it because it sounded like a man punched a 3 year old.


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21803 posts, RR: 55
Reply 12, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 15797 times:

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 7):
LOL, but he's ok with the drinks trolley...

Can't drink a Kindle, you know....

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinestlgph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9501 posts, RR: 26
Reply 13, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 15757 times:

Quoting KMCIFAN (Reply 11):

and yet the most surprising part about the story would have been a 3 year old now has his own iphone.
the day is coming, people..



if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20247 posts, RR: 59
Reply 14, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 15757 times:

Quoting stlgph (Reply 5):
man is used for typically someone 20 or over no matter if they're "elderly" or a "senior citizen." those terms still get used, but sometimes lawsuits have been filed alleging "age bias."

The media uses "man/woman" at age 18. Up until then it's "boy/girl" or "teen" (if it's a teen).


User currently offlineexFATboy From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2974 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 15634 times:

Quoting falstaff (Reply 4):
The teen is such a wimp for even reporting it.

Actually, the story in the OP doesn't say who reported it - entirely possible it was another passenger or a FA.

Quoting falstaff (Reply 4):
I am sure he'll grow up to be worthless because he is too good to listen to instructions and runs and tells as soon as he doesn't get his way.

On the other hand, it's entirely possible this guy was one of the many self-righteous senior citizen thinking he's better than everyone else because he's old (yeah, I'm stereotyping a little, but so are you) and thus entitled to lay hands on other people. The FA can do her/his job without the Airborne Citizen's Watch.

That said, I do think arresting the guy is a definite over-reaction, it's unlikely it was more than a light jab (although some 68 year olds are stronger than you might think) and a gentle admonishment by a police officer would have been sufficient. And the teenager should have been on the receiving end of a talking-to as well.

Quoting falstaff (Reply 4):
I have asked some people to put electronics away and they look at me like I'm crazy.

The look is probably more along the lines of "how about minding your own business, okay?"

Quoting nwafflyer (Reply 3):
Interesting though, I was on a recent flight with my Kindle. I hold the kindle in my hand until we're at 10,000 feet when I turn it on and start to read. The man next to me complained that is could be a projectile if we had a problem (this before we even left the gate). I told him I had a firm hold of it, but to keep him happy, I had to put it in an overhead bin (after crawling over him to get to the aisle), then, once we were above 10,000 feet, he wouldn't let me out to get it, saying again, it was a dangerous projectile.

Wow, what a jerk. Did he have a book or magazine or anything else out during the flight? What about headphones...they could get knocked off his head and become a "projectile" too! Yeesh.

I could understand, if he was a nervous flier, if he asked you if it was in "airplane mode". I could even understand if he asked you politely to put it in the seatback pocket during takeoff, although I'd say he was really pushing the outer limiits of sympathy for the scared flier there...again, is he going up the aisles and making sure no one has a book out? (My sister-in-law dropped her copy of the last Harry Potter book on my bare foot last week, that thing could kill a puppy!) But to insist you put it in the overhead bin and then not let you get it out at cruise? Insane.


User currently offlinefalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6159 posts, RR: 29
Reply 16, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 15342 times:
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Quoting exFATboy (Reply 15):
The look is probably more along the lines of "how about minding your own business, okay?"


Safety is everybody's business. You can't pick and choose what safety rules you want to follow. Not wearing a seat belt only effects the person not wearing it. If cell phones can screw with a plane's electronic that effects everyone.



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offline580FA From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 90 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 15299 times:

Quoting falstaff (Reply 16):
Not wearing a seat belt only effects the person not wearing it.

Nothing could be further from the truth.



Re the original story, kid should have followed instructions. Man should have allowed crew to do their jobs.

Hitting people on airplanes is not okay. Of course he was rightly removed.


User currently offlineAndz From South Africa, joined Feb 2004, 8461 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 15183 times:
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Quoting falstaff (Reply 16):
Not wearing a seat belt only effects the person not wearing it.

I disagree. If a camera or a book can become a projectile, how about an untethered passenger in severe turbulence?

I admonished a teenager on a flight years ago, as the FA came round checking everyone was belted he took his off as soon as she passed. His mother gave me the daggers look but to her credit she also told him to fasten it again.



After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
User currently offlineUAL747DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2392 posts, RR: 11
Reply 19, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 15109 times:

Quoting nwafflyer (Reply 3):
then, once we were above 10,000 feet, he wouldn't let me out to get it, saying again, it was a dangerous projectile.

You are far too nice! I would have had a huge problem with this guy and after you were kind enough to put it in the bin for takeoff him telling you not to get it back out was crossing the line. I would have told this guy to shove it and put the thing on the tray table just to piss him off! Someone like that couldn't handle sitting next to me, when I travel I have all kinds of crap sitting around and wouldn't put it away if he begged!

Quoting falstaff (Reply 4):
I am sure he'll grow up to be worthless because he is too good to listen to instructions and runs and tells as soon as he doesn't get his way.

We don't know who told but it doesn't really matter. You never have a right to put your hands on anyone else and if you do you better be prepared for what will come next. My kids are far younger than 15 but even at 15 if I seen some man put his hands on any of my kids I would probably kick his ass, if he didn't like what the kid was doing he should have used that pretty little FA button.

Quoting falstaff (Reply 4):
I know I will make a lot of photographers mad on here because they too violate the rules when they take photos on landings and take off.....

We all know that electronics don't really do anything that could mess with the safety of the flight, the real reason they have these rules is so that you put all the crap away in case something goes wrong. No one wants a camera smashing into their face during a rejected take off but I don't think its really a big enough deal for a FA to say anything.

Quoting stlgph (Reply 13):
and yet the most surprising part about the story would have been a 3 year old now has his own iphone.
the day is coming, people..

LOL, my wife wasn't too happy about me getting our 5yr old a cell phone for Christmas this year! The real reason I got him one is because his 7yr old brother needed one and I didn't want him to feel left out, but yeah that day is already here!

Quoting falstaff (Reply 16):
If cell phones can screw with a plane's electronic that effects everyone.

No they can't. If a cell phone could bring an airliner down we would have some major problems.



/// UNITED AIRLINES
User currently offlineexFATboy From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2974 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 15017 times:

Quoting falstaff (Reply 16):
You can't pick and choose what safety rules you want to follow.

At the risk of being cynical, sure you can...millions of people worldwide do it every day. It's called "speeding". Drivers make value judgments every day on the validity of speed limits and a large number (a majority in some places) elect to violate those limits that are supposedly there for "safety".

It's not that horribly different on a plane - just as many people believe the speed limits are set artificially low out of an excess of caution (and to generate speeding ticket revenue), the electronics rules on aircraft strike many people as excessive, so they disregard them, just as many frequent fliers (particularly here in the litigious US) ignore the seatbelt sign from time to time, because we've been trained to by overly cautious pilots and policies on the one hand and FAs who compensate for that tendency by ignoring the less-blatant violations on the other.

I like to consider myself a fairly safety-oriented flier, but I've gone to the toilet while the seatbelt light is on. I've also used my digital camera on take-off and landing, because there's no real reason not to - I've never seen one shred of evidence that the electronics in a digital camera can interfere with a commercial airliner, and using a digital camera is no more distracting than using a (perfectly allowed) old-style non-digital camera, just as reading on a Kindle is no more distracting (and no more likely to become a "projectile") than reading a hard-copy book.


User currently offlinekeagkid101 From Portugal, joined Mar 2010, 306 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 14676 times:

The kid didn't respond. So, the old man thought it was "okay" to strike him. Although some people think this may have been the "right" thing to do, it wasn't. He should not have been "hit" just because he didn't want to turn of his phone. There are other ways of dealing with this kind of situation, such as alerting cabin crew (if they were not aware of the kid using his phone), and if necessary, returning to the gate. The old man deserves to have been arrested. He had absolute zero right to act on this situation. The cabin crew is responsible for enforcing FAA requirements, not passengers.

For clarification purposes, I don't believe the cabin crew told the kid directly to turn of his phone. I'm pretty sure it was the general all-call by the cabin crew to turn off electronics.


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 14577 times:

Quoting falstaff (Reply 16):

So that gave him the right to put his hands on him? No. Whether it was a jab or punch it doesn't matter. You don't put your hands on someone else's person, period. This kid would have been in his full right to punch this guy in his face. I can tell you this much. If it was me the ending wouldn't have been nice and it would have been in the name of self defense.

Quoting keagkid101 (Reply 21):

  



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlinetype-rated From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 14333 times:

Quoting falstaff (Reply 16):
Not wearing a seat belt only effects the person not wearing it.

Lots of people have been injured by non seat belted passengers coming down from the ceiling after a few bumps of negative G's.

As for rules, there are just some people out there that think it would kill them to follow any rules.


Quoting nwafflyer (Reply 10):
There are strange people out there - best is to avoid them if at all possible

Very True.


User currently offline580FA From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 90 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 14217 times:

Quoting UAL747DEN (Reply 19):
his 7yr old brother needed one

No. No he didn't. No 7 year old needs a cell phone.

Is A.net for real? Or are we on Candid Camera?


25 CrossChecked : This really isn't about what's dangerous or not. We all know that a cell phone isn't going to down an airliner. We all know that using a kindle during
26 Post contains images skidmarks : Well said. It never ceases to amaze me how people simply cannot do without their phone or whathave you for the few minutes before and after flight. A
27 Post contains images etherealsky : Ah, the old 'eye-for-an-eye' way of interacting with our fellow human beings. Nice.
28 Post contains images Kaiarahi : Were you there? Do you also kick the cat to death if it scratches you?
29 AirNZ : Aye, it wouldn't have been very nice for you at all ending up in a police cell and discovering that 'self-defence doesn't cover all you think it does
30 Post contains images IMissPiedmont : Very few people need a cell phone, surgeons would be the only ones I can think of that do. I find it astounding that a child of 15 even has an iphone
31 oly720man : That's peer pressure and advertising for you..... and for some teenagers there's no difference between "I need" and "I want I want I want I want" ...
32 exFATboy : Part of the seatbelt problem, as I've mentioned already, is that - at least here in the States - passengers have been trained to selectively disregar
33 CrossChecked : No reason not to use them?! Maybe you're right. But as mentined in my previous post, whether there's a reason behind the rule or not is irrelevant. Y
34 UAL747DEN : He walks to and from school on warm days, it seems crazy to me not to give him a device that can instantly put him in contact with his mother or I if
35 AirNZ : A re you seriously trying to tell me this doesn't happen in the US on any flight? Absolute BS! What did we all do 15-20 years ago - how did we possib
36 Post contains images FlyASAGuy2005 : This isn't about an eye for and eye or tit for tat thing. I'm proving a point and showing the absurdity of some one's comment that it was okay for thi
37 cleared2land : The articles I read stated that he was listening to music and didn't respond to the announcement. My question is did he even hear the announcement. Wa
38 LordMontenegro : I can back UAL upon that, actually. I've never seen anyone stand up before the gate on any flights I've ever taken in the US. I'm not saying that it
39 einsteinboricua : He means that a simple device "could be turned into a projectile" but he's perfectly fine with a cart many times bigger and heavier which indeed coul
40 thediplomat : Many years ago on a STN DUB flight on an EI 146 - This woman took her phone out and started making a phone call about 90 seconds before landing. I as
41 Post contains images isitsafenow : You are much too nice. I would have got him to get up into the aisle. There are ways, you know...... safe
42 exFATboy : And as I've mentioned, human beings will, by their very nature, ignore rules that have no reason behind them if they can, and complain long and loudl
43 cleared2land : I almost always listen to music during boarding, sometimes with the volume a bit loud. I do pay attention as well to what is going on around me so I
44 faro : Same can be said for how one defines a "punch". Only the witnesses to the incident know whether it was an hard-hitting thrust or a rough tap. Faro
45 captainstefan : I reckon this part missed the point, skidmarks - they waited until it was (by law) allowable to use it, what is so wrong about it?
46 HAWK21M : The "Kid" should have listened to Instructions & followed the rules.....The Man should not have taken the law in his hands,but rather have complai
47 klm77 : Correct me if I am wrong, but don't planes have wi-fi now-a-days? I know for my iPhone to work with wi-fi, I can't have it on airplane mode, so if I
48 rwy04lga : The old man made this happen, not the kid. He had no authority, responsibility, or right to involve himself. And he DAMN sure had NO RIGHT to touch th
49 exFATboy : In the US, this is true...I think there are some exceptions, but as a general rule you can use mobile phones as soon as the plane lands and the FA ma
50 Post contains images skidmarks : Cheeky git! Andy
51 UAL747DEN : Umm yeah I think I would.
52 NASBWI : Informing, not enforcing - at least, the way I was trained. I'm not going to act as "cell phone police" or "seatbelt police". I'm not a police office
53 dvincent : Actually, you can. Slide it to Airplane Mode, then leave the airplane mode slider alone, then turn the WiFi slider to on. While setting Airplane mode
54 zalemam : If there's no wifi signal to connect to, then there should be no problem...I doubt that there is a wifi signal 10,000 feet in the air...and if the ai
55 UAL747DEN : I think that this statement kind of proves that these devices really have no effect on the aircraft whatsoever. If there was any chance that these de
56 Maverick623 : And that's the bottom line. BTW, with the kid being only 15, he could get charged with assaulting a minor. In most states, that's a felony. Unless so
57 Kaiarahi : OK, so let's all make a buzzing sound in the pilot's headset while the plane's on final approach and s/he's trying to communicate with the tower. Abo
58 rolfen : I wouldn't punch someone who doesn't obey FA orders. Not because I'm afraid, but because it's wrong and mean. Unless, of course, the guy is trying to
59 klm77 : Yes you're right you can....ooops. Non the less as UAl747DEN mentioned if the signal of a phone could affect the planes system, there would be major
60 airtechy : On any given flight probably half the cellphones are never turned off. Even if you are not talking on one, it's transmitter comes on periodically to h
61 Post contains images NASBWI : You're right, which is why at 10,000ft, electronic devices are allowed to be used . Indeed. I've found that it's far less stressful to simply inform
62 rcair1 : Me to (back up UAL). I rarely see this in the US (very rarely) and it is followed with announcements nearly always. However, I have seen it regularly
63 rwy04lga : I heard that all the time while growing up in EDI Umm, the best you could do is try. I would go to great lengths to protect an animal. You would not w
64 exFATboy : Also a stunningly tougue-in-cheek statement.
65 Maverick623 : Let's leave the discussion to people who actually know about the effects of cell phones in flight. I'll give you a hint: the "buzzing" does not get w
66 rcair1 : Huh? Actually - the 'buzzing' is the signal from the phone trying to talk to the tower interfering with the audio. Multiple phones can do increase th
67 Maverick623 : The radio signals sent from the cell phone gets picked up by the wires and circuits in the avionics bay, and get translated directly into sound witho
68 Derik737 : From the 737NG STC for installing the Row 44 Broadband System: Honeywell Display Unit, P/N 4091900-xxx (Example P/Ns 4091900-931, 4091900-932, 409190
69 signol : Firstly, none of us was there so can't really comment on what happened exactly. But, could the boy have been listening to music and not heard the anno
70 Maverick623 : No. According to the police report, the boy had a mark/bruise on him from the encounter (several hours later). A tap does not cause a mark to last th
71 Post contains images Kaiarahi : Such as? I don't know if you've ever had to listen to cell phone interference during an activity-intensive phase of flight, but it's at best distract
72 rolfen : Since this is an iPhone, it could have been in "flight" mode. Most phones have this mode anyway. I don't think this detail is mentioned in the articl
73 Maverick623 : I think we're getting off track here. I'm in full agreement that cell phones should be off at all times during a flight. It is distracting (and yes,
74 rcair1 : Uh - duh. As I said in the same post you quoted.... You don't need to wait for a text - or any kind of communication. That Palm Pre is on AT&T. I
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