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Martinair After The 767-300ER  
User currently offlinejunior1970 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 156 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 8 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 13286 times:

Hello,

I do apologize if this has already been discussed, but I would like to know what MP (Martinair) will fly after the 767's are phased out in, as far as I know, 2011

Thanks.

47 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinebillreid From Netherlands, joined Jun 2006, 1006 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 8 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 13288 times:

Nothing.
They are now owned 100% by KL/AF and the future is being folded into Transavia.



Some people don't get it. Business is about making MONEY!
User currently offlineDALCE From Netherlands, joined Feb 2007, 1682 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (3 years 8 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 13215 times:

Martinair will cease all pax ops and will continue as a Cargo Carrier equiped with M1F and 747BCF and 747ERF.
All passenger aircraft will be phased out, and routes will be taken over by KL.
HV has nothing to do with it since MP did already cease short haul flights some time ago.



flown on : F50,F70,CR1,CR2,CR9,E75,143,AR8,AR1,733,735,736,73G,738,753,744,319,320,321,333,AB6.
User currently offlinejwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 18
Reply 3, posted (3 years 8 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 13102 times:

well, MP did operate some summer charter operations around the Med region which will now be operated by HV.


I wish I were flying
User currently offline413X3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1983 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 8 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 12973 times:

Using what aircraft? The Martinair 767's?

User currently offlinePH-BFA From Netherlands, joined Apr 2002, 562 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (3 years 8 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 12928 times:

Quoting 413X3 (Reply 4):
Using what aircraft? The Martinair 767's?

KLM ordered 3 A330-300's, the MP 76's will be phased out.


User currently offlineDALCE From Netherlands, joined Feb 2007, 1682 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (3 years 8 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 12825 times:

Quoting jwenting (Reply 3):
well, MP did operate some summer charter operations around the Med region which will now be operated by HV
Quoting 413X3 (Reply 4):
Using what aircraft? The Martinair 767's

They used to operate some 320's which I guess jwenting is aiming at. They are gone for 2 or 3 years now.
AFAIK they did not operate any short haul flights after the phase out of the 320's. Perhaps an odd wetlease, but no short haul under MP flightno.

KLM did indeed order 3 A330-300's to make the integration of the MP network easier. However KL will not operate those new 330-300's on MP routes only. Equipment will be amended to demand. So I expect some flight to get the 332 and some peak flights could even get a 747 or 77W if demand is heavy.



flown on : F50,F70,CR1,CR2,CR9,E75,143,AR8,AR1,733,735,736,73G,738,753,744,319,320,321,333,AB6.
User currently offlineairbuseric From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 4268 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (3 years 8 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 12571 times:

Quoting DALCE (Reply 6):
KLM did indeed order 3 A330-300's to make the integration of the MP network easier. However KL will not operate those new 330-300's on MP routes only. Equipment will be amended to demand. So I expect some flight to get the 332 and some peak flights could even get a 747 or 77W if demand is heavy.

I think the KLM MD11 to the 'original' MP routes in the Caribs, and the A333 to US Eastcoast cities like ORD or JFK.



"The whole world steps aside for the man who knows where he is going"
User currently offlinemauriceb From Netherlands, joined Aug 2004, 2490 posts, RR: 25
Reply 8, posted (3 years 8 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 12277 times:

Quoting airbuseric (Reply 7):
I think the KLM MD11 to the 'original' MP routes in the Caribs, and the A333 to US Eastcoast cities like ORD or JFK.

As far as i know only Miami will be MD-11 to start with.. expect them to go A330 once the remaining 4 (?) start to arive.
MD-11 wil be used on all Canada routes, Panama, Dubai (occasionally) and Teheran, so there won't be to many planes left for the ex-MP routes.


User currently offlineTR1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 268 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (3 years 8 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 11932 times:

Does this also mean KL will take on the MP employees involved with the passenger operation?

User currently offlinemauriceb From Netherlands, joined Aug 2004, 2490 posts, RR: 25
Reply 10, posted (3 years 8 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 11883 times:

Quoting TR1 (Reply 9):
Does this also mean KL will take on the MP employees involved with the passenger operation?

Ground crew actually are KL employee's, the pilots and FA's got a job at KL, where the FA's have to start from the bottom up. The pilots will remain theire status.


User currently offlineDALCE From Netherlands, joined Feb 2007, 1682 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (3 years 8 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 11882 times:

Quoting TR1 (Reply 9):
Does this also mean KL will take on the MP employees involved with the passenger operation?

Yes, they are. But they loose all seniority the had gained with MP



flown on : F50,F70,CR1,CR2,CR9,E75,143,AR8,AR1,733,735,736,73G,738,753,744,319,320,321,333,AB6.
User currently offlineairbuster From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 442 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 8 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 11764 times:

Quoting mauriceb (Reply 10):
The pilots will remain theire status.

That isn't decided yet, the final decission on what will happen with the MP pilots will be made around march/april 2011

Expect the 4 KLM 747-ERF to go to MP and thus the 767 pilots to go on the md11 and 74 at MP.



FLY FOKKER JET LINE!
User currently offlinePH-BFA From Netherlands, joined Apr 2002, 562 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (3 years 8 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 11484 times:

Quoting mauriceb (Reply 10):
the pilots and FA's got a job at KL

Not decided yet..

Quoting mauriceb (Reply 10):
The pilots will remain theire status

Not decided yet..


User currently offlinemauriceb From Netherlands, joined Aug 2004, 2490 posts, RR: 25
Reply 14, posted (3 years 8 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 11122 times:

Quoting PH-BFA (Reply 13):
Quoting mauriceb (Reply 10):
the pilots and FA's got a job at KL

Not decided yet..

They will get a job within the KL group, if its actually at KL, that isn't decided yet.

Quoting PH-BFA (Reply 13):
Quoting mauriceb (Reply 10):
The pilots will remain theire status

Not decided yet..

Well from what i have heard, these rumours are pretty strong.


User currently offlinePH-BFA From Netherlands, joined Apr 2002, 562 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (3 years 8 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 11028 times:

Quoting mauriceb (Reply 14):
Well from what i have heard, these rumours are pretty strong.

We'll see, rumours and aviation.... 
Quoting mauriceb (Reply 14):
They will get a job within the KL group, if its actually at KL, that isn't decided yet.

Correct


User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9780 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (3 years 8 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 10891 times:

Quoting mauriceb (Reply 8):
Quoting airbuseric (Reply 7):
I think the KLM MD11 to the 'original' MP routes in the Caribs, and the A333 to US Eastcoast cities like ORD or JFK.

As far as i know only Miami will be MD-11 to start with.. expect them to go A330 once the remaining 4 (?) start to arive.
MD-11 wil be used on all Canada routes, Panama, Dubai (occasionally) and Teheran, so there won't be to many planes left for the ex-MP routes.

KL hasn't announced additional flights to CUR after MP leaves so I hope they will announce more additional flights once the summer schedule for 2011 is up. Hopefully we will see those A333's also being deployed to CUR but my feeling still goes to the 777 as the next aircraft type KL will want to use to CUR. A combination of 77W's and 772's can offer more felixbility to the market demands throughout the year without having seperate crews doing the same route (A330 and 744's or A330's and 777's). Four weekly 77W's and three weekly 772's or daily 77W's doesn't sound that bad for CUR in my opinion.

A388


User currently offlineabibus From Mexico, joined Dec 2010, 128 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 8 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 10232 times:

I live in Cancun and Martin Air operates flights from CUN to Amsterdam with very good prices... Will KLM coming in to Cancun??? Would be great I like KLM very much and British Airways starts last month with directly flights from gatwick to cancun with 777 any info???

User currently offlinemauriceb From Netherlands, joined Aug 2004, 2490 posts, RR: 25
Reply 18, posted (3 years 8 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 10125 times:

Quoting A388 (Reply 16):
KL hasn't announced additional flights to CUR after MP leaves so I hope they will announce more additional flights once the summer schedule for 2011 is up. Hopefully we will see those A333's also being deployed to CUR but my feeling still goes to the 777 as the next aircraft type KL will want to use to CUR. A combination of 77W's and 772's can offer more felixbility to the market demands throughout the year without having seperate crews doing the same route (A330 and 744's or A330's and 777's). Four weekly 77W's and three weekly 772's or daily 77W's doesn't sound that bad for CUR in my opinion.

A388

Well think it depends on how airlines like Arke are going to react to all of this, and if they are able to hold up business (which i don't doubt). But with more 77W's arriving, i could definitly see them using 300's on a daily basis. Curacao sees more and more foreign people from europe, which because of lack of airlines serving CUR, they travel with KL. Since the tourist business is picking up, why not? Maybe we will eventually see more than just a daily flight.


User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9780 posts, RR: 11
Reply 19, posted (3 years 8 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 9631 times:

Quoting mauriceb (Reply 18):
Well think it depends on how airlines like Arke are going to react to all of this, and if they are able to hold up business (which i don't doubt). But with more 77W's arriving, i could definitly see them using 300's on a daily basis. Curacao sees more and more foreign people from europe, which because of lack of airlines serving CUR, they travel with KL. Since the tourist business is picking up, why not? Maybe we will eventually see more than just a daily flight.

You are absolutely right. I just read an article in a local newspaper saying that the Dutch tourism has increased again this year and that Europeans overall take the majority of the total number of tourists who come to Curacao. I believe the Europeans account for about 62 percent of the total numbers of tourists visiting Curacao.

A388


User currently offlinemauriceb From Netherlands, joined Aug 2004, 2490 posts, RR: 25
Reply 20, posted (3 years 8 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 9365 times:

Quoting A388 (Reply 19):
I believe the Europeans account for about 62 percent of the total numbers of tourists visiting Curacao

That's quite massive! Its a shame that most people from the USA only know Aruba, because to my opinion Curacao has to offer the same, and for divers even more. though the second weekly CO flight out of Newark is a good sign.

More and more people are enjoying the beauty of this island.. just like me, a lot of people that visited Curacao, return for atleast another visit. Its a shame that we will lose MP on this route, leaving us with only Arke (wich personally isn't my fav) and the rather expensive KL.. MP had the right product and right price, so i hope KL will continue to make good deals with touroperators, so that more people are able to visit Curacao.


User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9780 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (3 years 8 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 9038 times:

Quoting mauriceb (Reply 20):
That's quite massive! Its a shame that most people from the USA only know Aruba, because to my opinion Curacao has to offer the same, and for divers even more. though the second weekly CO flight out of Newark is a good sign.

More and more people are enjoying the beauty of this island.. just like me, a lot of people that visited Curacao, return for atleast another visit. Its a shame that we will lose MP on this route, leaving us with only Arke (wich personally isn't my fav) and the rather expensive KL.. MP had the right product and right price, so i hope KL will continue to make good deals with touroperators, so that more people are able to visit Curacao.

Yes, the numbers are indeed impressive and I also hope that more people will visit Curacao every year. I also flew Martinair in 2007 to AMS because they had the best price for me, so I can see what you mean. Let's hope KL will continue to offer the same as MP did as you rightfully said.

A388


User currently offlinescl767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8805 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (3 years 8 months 4 days ago) and read 8883 times:
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Quoting mauriceb (Reply 8):
MD-11 wil be used on all Canada routes, Panama, Dubai (occasionally) and Teheran, so there won't be to many planes left for the ex-MP routes.

The MD-11 is also utilized on the AMS-BON-GYE-UIO-BON-AMS and AMS-PBM-AMS routes. It will be interesting to see what a/c KL will deploy into Quito when the new airport is opened.


User currently offlinemauriceb From Netherlands, joined Aug 2004, 2490 posts, RR: 25
Reply 23, posted (3 years 8 months 4 days ago) and read 8719 times:

Quoting scl767 (Reply 22):
The MD-11 is also utilized on the AMS-BON-GYE-UIO-BON-AMS and AMS-PBM-AMS routes. It will be interesting to see what a/c KL will deploy into Quito when the new airport is opened.

True, and it has been like that for years, but once the new airport is opened, KL already made more than clear that it will be directly served. (777 i suppose)

PBM has seen like every aircraft, didn't even know it was MD-11 now.. last year it was 747 when i still worked at the airport. thnx for the info.


User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9780 posts, RR: 11
Reply 24, posted (3 years 8 months 4 days ago) and read 8695 times:

Quoting scl767 (Reply 22):
The MD-11 is also utilized on the AMS-BON-GYE-UIO-BON-AMS and AMS-PBM-AMS routes. It will be interesting to see what a/c KL will deploy into Quito when the new airport is opened.

Yes, the MD11 is also an option for KL to CUR as this aircraft has been reconfigured for leisure routes but then again KL can fill a 77W to CUR as they now also fill the 744 yearround. With MP gone next year, this will further increase loads on the KL flights.

I also wonder which aircraft KL will use to UIO once the new airport opens. If the new airport is a high altitude airport but with a much longer runway and no high mountains in the vicinity as well, I'm not sure how that might limit the operation widebody aircraft to/from this new airport. My bets go to the 772 (nonstop, with or without limitations)... Time will tell...

A388


25 Post contains links SCL767 : The new airport in Quito will have the longest runway in Latin America, around 13,500 ft. (4,100m). I wonder if KL will still operate into GYE though
26 A388 : Thanks for the link SCL767. The article says that with the new runway at the new airport it is possible to fly from Quito to New York nonstop. Is tha
27 JRadier : I'm sceptical about a direct 777 route to UIO/GYE. The route is struggling (in terms that there seems to be limited improvement on service) on a 5-ti
28 SCL767 : No, the new Quito airport will be able to accommodate non-stop long-haul flights from Quito to AMS, JFK, MAD, etc.
29 Post contains images mauriceb : Sure, but don't forget that the amount of pax bound for BON isn't that much either (although you would expect more from a Dutch province ). I can see
30 JRadier : From my own experience (I've only flown the route twice though....) BON is good for a serious amount of passengers. I think neither of the situations
31 SCL767 : KL will not drop the UIO/GYE route. Also, operating the route without stopping in BON will help to increase the profitability of the route. It should
32 JRadier : Interesting theory about the BOG route (which I don't really see happening either). I'm just wondering, why do you think they will operate it as a ta
33 SCL767 : If KL could obtain Fifth Freedom rights between BOG and UIO, it could prove to be worth it. Also, LH is certainly doing well with cargo on the FRA-BO
34 LJ : And MP MD11s are 8 weekly into UIO and 5 weekly into GYE.. Very remote chance. The KL longhaul fleet is already very busy and CUR is not a high yield
35 abibus : Any info about the flight to cancun? thanks for info!
36 jwenting : didn't they occasionally operate 767s on charters to Spain and Portugal?
37 A388 : Okay, thanks. I also think this but let's wait and see what will happen. AMS-BOG-UIO-BOG-AMS does seem like an odd routing I also don't see happening
38 SCL767 : KLM used to operate flights into BOG, CCS, MVD, REC, SCL etc. KL will reinstate AMS-EZE, AMS-GIG and AMS-HAV. AF will reinstate CDG-LIM. AF is the on
39 A388 : Thanks for the information SCL767. I agree with you that SkyTeam is weak in South America, very weak in my opinion. AV was my last hope to SkyTeam to
40 SCL767 : The Chilean carrier Sky Airline is growing rapidly. They may eventually join an alliance in the future, most likely SkyTeam. Happy New Year and hopef
41 JRadier : Was a HAV service anounced by KLM?
42 mauriceb : Not official yet, but they announced it on the MP d-day. They will probably publice it when the extra capacity (A330's) arrive. Its better to announc
43 A388 : Thanks SCL767, I'll have my camera ready when that day arrives. A388
44 LJ : REC? I can't recall REC was a destination the past 25 years.. As far as I know REC was a fuel stop AMS-BOG isn't a big market but when combined with
45 Post contains links Flanor : It's official now. KLM CEO Peter Hartman mentions it in this interview by his own inflight magazine: http://www.ink-live.com/emagazines/holland-heral
46 76er : Today MP will operate its final pax flight to the USA ever. MP 636 will depart MCO tonight at 8:40pm EST, marking the end of a long history of flying
47 Schweigend : One of my favorite flights ever was DEN-AMS on a MartinAir 763 back in 1993 -- one of the ones with only two big doors fore and aft, and two emergency
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