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Small Plane Down, Minnesota, USA  
User currently offlinenjxc500 From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 243 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4316 times:

RIP. Thoughts to the families. Tail Number N9103N KAIT-KBMT

FAA spokeswoman Elizabeth Isham Cory says the plane departed Thursday morning from Aitkin, Minn., headed for Beaumont, Texas. The Piper 46 plane crashed in Milaca, which is about 65 miles north of Minneapolis.

http://www.kare11.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=896869

Pirep for our area, temperature inversion today, and rain.

PIREP 16:20Z 12/30/10
1D UA /OV MSP070023/TM 1620/FLUNKN/TP B732/TA M04/TB OCNL 110-080/IC MOD RIME 110-090/RM DURD RPTD BY NMRS ACFT

[Edited 2010-12-30 11:31:17]

[Edited 2010-12-30 11:35:10]

12 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineJBirdAV8r From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 4491 posts, RR: 21
Reply 1, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4247 times:

Quoting njxc500 (Thread starter):
Pirep for our area, temperature inversion today, and rain.

PIREP 16:20Z 12/30/10
1D UA /OV MSP070023/TM 1620/FLUNKN/TP B732/TA M04/TB OCNL 110-080/IC MOD RIME 110-090/RM DURD RPTD BY NMRS ACFT

Looks like an early Malibu. I wouldn't want to spend any time in the ice in a Mirage, let alone the early Malibu with the finnicky TSIO-520. The Mirage is underpowered as it is, but the Malibu...geez.

Sad that it happened. The Flightaware track, while error-prone, looks like it tells a sad story.



I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
User currently offlinestrandedinbgm From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 349 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4163 times:

Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 1):
The Flightaware track, while error-prone, looks like it tells a sad story.

Yes it does. It's actually quite eerie.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N.../20101230/1430Z/KAIT/KBMT/tracklog



It's 737s, 747s and 380s. Not 737's, 747's and 380's. Learn to use the apostrophe for crying out loud.
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6411 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4070 times:

Quoting njxc500 (Thread starter):


RIP. Thoughts to the families. Tail Number N9103N KAIT-KBMT

FAA spokeswoman Elizabeth Isham Cory says the plane departed Thursday morning from Aitkin, Minn., headed for Beaumont, Texas. The Piper 46 plane crashed in Milaca, which is about 65 miles north of Minneapolis.

That is a very ambitious cross country to be trying, especially in the middle of winter.

Quoting njxc500 (Thread starter):
PIREP 16:20Z 12/30/10
1D UA /OV MSP070023/TM 1620/FLUNKN/TP B732/TA M04/TB OCNL 110-080/IC MOD RIME 110-090/RM DURD RPTD BY NMRS ACFT

Game over unless you FIKI certification in a GA plane   Cannot fly into areas of known icing without FIKI certified installation. Even then, you'd better have an escape plan in case things don't work.

I wish rich playboys would find better ways to kill themselves than with Cirruses and Malibus and crash week-long instrument rating courses   I know it's way too early to make this call, though...but on the surface, that's how it sounds.



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineJBirdAV8r From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 4491 posts, RR: 21
Reply 4, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3953 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 3):
Game over unless you FIKI certification in a GA plane Cannot fly into areas of known icing without FIKI certified installation. Even then, you'd better have an escape plan in case things don't work.

I wouldn't even try that with FIKI. But I'm conservative. That old Malibu may very well have had boots.

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 3):
I wish rich playboys would find better ways to kill themselves than with Cirruses and Malibus and crash week-long instrument rating courses

Agree 110%. Those "rich playboys" are the hardest to teach too. It's incredibly, and I mean INCREDIBLY, difficult to teach successful small business owners. Physicians aren't bad (I had the worst luck with plastic surgeons but the neurosurgeons were great) and I actually had a personal injury attorney who was a hoot. The key was that they knew their limitations and, while incredibly bright people, they deferred to the knowledge and experience of others. But every business owner I ever tried to teach was like a cat...i.e. you didn't teach the businessman, the businessman taught you. They take instruction like oil takes water.



I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
User currently offlineMDShady From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 74 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3895 times:

That storm is freezing drizzle, RIP but perhaps waiting out the weather would've been the better judgement.

User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6411 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3802 times:

Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 4):
That old Malibu may very well have had boots.

Would you trust your life to a pair of crusty, 25 year old rubber boots that get blown up once a year when your bird gets an annual?    I certainly wouldn't. I might trust them more if they were regularly ground tested...

IIRC, though, many (most?) GA boot installations on singles don't have FIKI certification, but are just there as proctection in case you find yourself in icing conditions. In some planes, they are powered by a secondary vacuum pump just for the boots (the instrument vacuum pump can't make enough vacuum).

As I recall from my lineboy days, though, most Malibus have pretty heavy duty ice protection installed: a hot prop and a deicing pane on the windshield in addition to the usual boots. I'm sure that, over the years, many of them have gotten a TKS installation.

I'm just wondering if this one is a DIY Meridian, if it's one that has had an aftermarket PT-6 conversion done. That seems to be a pretty common mod on these early birds.



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineJBirdAV8r From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 4491 posts, RR: 21
Reply 7, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3802 times:

I will also add I was surprised how little was mentioned about proper use of deice equipment and ice flying in Mirage school. And there were guys in my class moving up from Saratogas and Bonanzas.


I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
User currently offlineJBirdAV8r From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 4491 posts, RR: 21
Reply 8, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3771 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 6):
Would you trust your life to a pair of crusty, 25 year old rubber boots that get blown up once a year when your bird gets an annual? I certainly wouldn't. I might trust them more if they were regularly ground tested...

No way. I didn't mean I'd try it if I'd had boots (I would have enjoyed a nice warm day at the hotel), just kinda a general statement. I avoid icing situations in general like the plague.

They are fairly well equipped as far as single piston ice protection goes, the newer ones do have hot props and actually the pilot's left front window is electrically heated glass these days as opposed to the hot plate. I've never actually seen one with the TKS mod.

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 6):
I'm just wondering if this one is a DIY Meridian, if it's one that has had an aftermarket PT-6 conversion done. That seems to be a pretty common mod on these early birds.

Never flown a poor man's Meridian but I believe the JetProps usually file as a P46T (Meridian) instead of PA46 (Malibu/Mirage/Matrix).



[Edited 2010-12-30 17:00:27]


I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
User currently offlineJpax From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1018 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3751 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 6):
I'm just wondering if this one is a DIY Meridian, if it's one that has had an aftermarket PT-6 conversion done. That seems to be a pretty common mod on these early birds.

I'm going to guess it was not a JetProp conversion. Its performance as filed on FlightAware, and its radar tracks, are more in line for the Malibu/Mirage/Matrix piston family. The FAA also has it on file being equipped with the Continental TSIO-520, which would agree on it being a plain jane Malibu. Hopefully this gentleman's 900nm trip and a climb through an icing layer in such an underpowered aircraft was not caused by get-there-itis...as for the controls not functioning, it will be interesting to read the NTSB report.

RIP.


User currently offlineDiamondFlyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1572 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 3654 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 6):
IIRC, though, many (most?) GA boot installations on singles don't have FIKI certification, but are just there as proctection in case you find yourself in icing conditions. In some planes, they are powered by a secondary vacuum pump just for the boots (the instrument vacuum pump can't make enough vacuum).

I wasn't aware there were many planes left that had non-FIKI boots? How many still have that? Even the Cessna 210's with boost are mostly FIKI anymore, as well as the multi's or anything else.

But speaking of boots and FIKI, I'd much rather have a TKS system than boots. TKS is much, much better, having spoken to many many people about the system.

-DiamondFlyer


User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 876 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 3591 times:
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The National Weather Service Icing Potential Chart this morning had a possibility for severe icing with Large Supercooled Water Droplets for the MSP area. The chart right now has the same prognostication. Their are Airmets for icing now also.

User currently offlineJBirdAV8r From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 4491 posts, RR: 21
Reply 12, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 3542 times:

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 10):
But speaking of boots and FIKI, I'd much rather have a TKS system than boots. TKS is much, much better, having spoken to many many people about the system.

On that note I have mixed feelings about TKS. On one hand it's quite effective especially with that dangerous runback ice where boots won't do you any good (prime candidate for THAT today). On the other hand you can burn through fluid more quickly than you think and it's not something you can pick up just anywhere. Personally I'd rather have hot wings but then there's the slight problem of being able to afford a big enough jet to have them...



I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
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