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Rumor: AA Looking At DXB And TLV!  
User currently offlineGlobalCabotage From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 605 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 19503 times:

AA is seriously looking at service to DXB and TLV. The money AA will pay to Israel for the TW "issue" is more than offset with $ from service to JFK, MIA, and ORD.

Also, DXB is being looked at from DFW and ORD.

For the INC lovers on this forum, it is low hanging fruit at this time, but always on the "Horizon!" AAers here will know about Horizon, Everest, Jetstream, and Quantum. Hard to belive AA can fly planes when employees are using a juiced up version of Windows 95 on Compaq PCs!

102 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7804 posts, RR: 25
Reply 1, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 19578 times:

I sincerely doubt this.

I would love to see it, but its not in AA's nature.

[Edited 2010-12-30 17:03:55]


Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineflyby519 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 1234 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 19471 times:

Source? Sounds too good to actually happen.

Why dont we toss in oneworld membership for El Al and Emirates to make things real interesting  



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User currently onlineCOalways From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 377 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 19436 times:

..................Source?

User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15831 posts, RR: 27
Reply 4, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 19425 times:

Are these flights long enough that they would need to go through red tape from the pilots?


Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineyegbey01 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1732 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 19415 times:

How much more demand is there for US-DXB service?

I can understand how EK can generate all the transit pax, but with already 2 daily flights from IAH, I wonder how AA can make the flight work from DFW


User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5373 posts, RR: 25
Reply 6, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 19424 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 4):
Are these flights long enough that they would need to go through red tape from the pilots?

TLV should not be, and I think ORD-DXB may not be either, but I'm fairly certain that DFW-DXB would require pilot approval.



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineas739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6194 posts, RR: 24
Reply 7, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 19344 times:

DFW-DXB with what?

EK operates IAH-DXB but using a 77L



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineMIASkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 1348 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 19355 times:

MIA-TLV would do well...but yeah..Sources? sounds like a great a dreamy New Year's Resolution...


Nothing better than making love at 35K Feet!
User currently offlinegoldenstate From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 583 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 19260 times:
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Is this going to be with the JAL 77Ws that AA's crews think their company will pay them a 15-20% premium relative to DL and UA to fly? Good luck with that.

User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7804 posts, RR: 25
Reply 10, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 19177 times:

Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 5):
I can understand how EK can generate all the transit pax, but with already 2 daily flights from IAH, I wonder how AA can make the flight work from DFW

A DFW-Middle East flight would work, but there would need to be significant connections available on the other side to the Indian subcontinent.

DFW-DXB/AUH or whatever is not a job for AA.

AA will continue pouring their resources into NRT, LHR, GRU, and Latin America. Thats just what they do. I have a serious love hate relationship with AA for it.

[Edited 2010-12-30 17:58:05]


Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlinelucky777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 19116 times:

Sounds like somebody has been hitting the eggnog.

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33272 posts, RR: 71
Reply 12, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 18984 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 10):
AA will continue pouring their resources into NRT, LHR, GRU, and Latin America. Thats just what they do. I have a serious love hate relationship with AA for it.

And then AA will eventually fail.

AA will adjust or simply not be around. I fully believe AA is looking at Dubai and Tel Aviv. It has no choice. Whether it goes through with it, well, I don't think either will happen soon, but they will have to happen within 3-4 years for AA to remain competitive in network scope. AA has a loyal passenger base and core city network that other airlines could only dream of. Too bad that it doesn't use it to its full potential.

[Edited 2010-12-30 18:20:17]


a.
User currently offlineCODCAIAH From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 177 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 18888 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 12):
I fully believe AA is looking at Dubai and Tel Aviv.

It's weird to me that AA isn't already flying to TLV. I'm sure this is answered elsewhere but it seems worth mentioning here -- what's AA's TW / TLV issue?



CO/IAH-loyalist happily driven into the arms of WN/HOU
User currently offlineAAExecPlat From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 636 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 18781 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 12):

Exactly. AA is doing better now, and their JBAs with BA and JL will help further. But in the end, nothing can replace a solid network of their own. So count me as one of those who believe that this rumour ovf DXB and TLV is true. And if it were up to me, I would have AA look into the A330 right now, since it seems the 789 won't be available for at least 5 more years.


User currently offlineCXA330300 From South Africa, joined May 2004, 1569 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 18639 times:

TLV is covered with AA's arrangement with El Al, BA and Iberia... I could theoretically see something working from ORD.

AA tends to put money into where it's strong and alliances where it's not, and maybe there's some sort of logic to it-I'm not sure as to their plans.



The sky is the limit as long as you can stay there
User currently offlineindcwby From United States of America, joined exactly 4 years ago today! , 135 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 18445 times:

Quoting GlobalCabotage (Thread starter):
AA is seriously looking at service to DXB and TLV. The money AA will pay to Israel for the TW "issue" is more than offset with $ from service to JFK, MIA, and ORD.

Also, DXB is being looked at from DFW and ORD.

Isn't Gulf Air a 'OneWorld' member with AA? They already have a daily flight between ORD and DXB.

Also, is there even demand for a direct flight to TLV?


User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8625 posts, RR: 13
Reply 17, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 18392 times:
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Quoting indcwby (Reply 16):
Isn't Gulf Air a 'OneWorld' member with AA?

They may have an arrangement with AA , but they are certainly not ( yet ) a Oneworld member .



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 18365 times:

Quoting indcwby (Reply 16):

Royal Jordanian is a member of the oneworld alliance and will operate AMM-ORD daily effective May 6, 2011. RJ will soon operate AMM-JFK 5x weekly.


User currently offlineindcwby From United States of America, joined exactly 4 years ago today! , 135 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 18236 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 17):
Quoting indcwby (Reply 16):
Isn't Gulf Air a 'OneWorld' member with AA?

They may have an arrangement with AA , but they are certainly not ( yet ) a Oneworld member .

You're right, they do have a partnership for AAdvantage Miles to be used with Gulf Air.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 18):
Quoting indcwby (Reply 16):

Royal Jordanian is a member of the oneworld alliance and will operate AMM-ORD daily effective May 6, 2011. RJ will soon operate AMM-JFK 5x weekly.

Question is that if they even attempt such a venture to DXB, can they compete with the likes of EK? I mean, I've been on both EK and QR, and both have been a better experience than those flights through NW/KL/DL, for example.


User currently onlineyeogeo From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 890 posts, RR: 14
Reply 20, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 18178 times:

Quoting indcwby (Reply 16):
Isn't Gulf Air a 'OneWorld' member with AA? They already have a daily flight between ORD and DXB.

  Not sure wether you mean GF or AA are flying ORD-DXB, but it doesn't matter: neither are flying the route currently.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 18):
Royal Jordanian is a member of the oneworld alliance and will operate AMM-ORD daily effective May 6, 2011. RJ will soon operate AMM-JFK 5x weekly.

Again,  
RJ operates ORD-AMM 4xweekly right now, but what does this or their ORD-AMM schedule in May have to do with an ORD-DXB route?

I'm just not following you people tonight!
yeo



One great use of words is to hide our thoughts. Voltaire
User currently offlinewashingtonian From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 18184 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 12):
AA will adjust or simply not be around. I fully believe AA is looking at Dubai and Tel Aviv. It has no choice. Whether it goes through with it, well, I don't think either will happen soon, but they will have to happen within 3-4 years for AA to remain competitive in network scope. AA has a loyal passenger base and core city network that other airlines could only dream of. Too bad that it doesn't use it to its full potential.

Isn't lack of Tel Aviv service symbolic of AA's network woes? But it's not just Tel Aviv--there are many such cities that AA has to play "catch up" with to match United and Delta...Is it really feasible to ever expect American to match the scope of United or Delta's network in the near future?


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 18118 times:

Quoting yeogeo (Reply 20):
RJ operates ORD-AMM 4xweekly right now, but what does this or their ORD-AMM schedule in May have to do with an ORD-DXB route?

There is no ORD-DXB route! It's just speculation. However, RJ offers connections to DXB and TLV via AMM. RJ will soon operate AMM-DXB 19x weekly and AMM-TLV 17x weekly.


User currently offlinetoobz From Finland, joined Jan 2010, 809 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 17957 times:

[quote=washingtonian,reply=21]Isn't lack of Tel Aviv service symbolic of AA's network woes? But it's not just Tel Aviv--there are many such cities that AA has to play "catch up" with to match United and Delta...Is it really feasible to ever expect American to match the scope of United or Delta's network in the near future?[/

AA has alot to play catch up with. I think the problem is AA is dealing with alot of internal bs when it comes to pilot and various contracts. Add the conservatism cards that AA normally plays PLUS the money that's owed to TW staff in TLV and the competion that their facing I don't see them running to TLV. it's not that big of a cash cow to make or break AA. It is clearly a good market and I don't think they will fail but they may well deem that it's well served through alliance members


User currently onlineyeogeo From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 890 posts, RR: 14
Reply 24, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 17957 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 22):
There is no ORD-DXB route! It's just speculation.

I am quite aware of that my friend.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 22):
RJ offers connections to DXB and TLV via AMM.

Not a very direct routing; one could do better by hundreds of miles via HEL or LHR or even CDG, so what's your point?

yeo



One great use of words is to hide our thoughts. Voltaire
25 deltal1011man : why? What could good a 330 do them? I don't believe the cost of bring the 330 into AAs fleet would be worth it, when they can just use the 777 and fl
26 LAXtoATL : This may be true, but then why aren't they already flying these routes? I have to assume the "issue" is bigger than some choose to accept. Either tha
27 AAExecPlat : What the A333 would allow them to do, is to fly established routes under 4000nm more efficiently while redeploying the 772s on new longer haul routes
28 AirNZ : Well, other that your admited hatred of anything Airbus, as an aviation 'enthusiast surely you would be aware of why on earth would one use a 777 on
29 jfk777 : Chicago to Dubai would be awsome, a 777-200ER should do it since now AA flies ORD to Dehli, India. For this to happen, AA will need more 777 as most a
30 Post contains images deltal1011man : That is true I was thinking of TLV/DXB.....which a 330 wouldn't really help them outside of JFK-TLV. But still, I'm not sure the cost of adding the f
31 jfk777 : Because its the plane AA Has. The 777 can lift more then an A330 & is used very wisely by AA to GRU and EZE even though an A330 would serve those
32 behramjee : DFW-DXB is not possible to be flown with a B 772ER so that route will not happen plus it limits connections to the East Coast due to back tracking. JF
33 AAExecPlat : Correct. The 333 won't help at all with TLV or DXB. But I would use your argument of 15-20 fleet of different engines to justify the A330. I don't th
34 LAXdude1023 : Im pretty sure the East Coast would not be a target for a DFW-Middle East flight. A DFW-Middle East flight would work, but not with AA flying it. It
35 web500sjc : AA does have a mixed long haul fleet- remeber the 767? It just happens that what you want AA to use the A330 for they already use a B767. It just hap
36 ckfred : I had dinner with an AA pilot last night. Now, he will be the first to tell you that any rumor is simply that, a rumor, until there is something offi
37 indcwby : Couldn't agree with you more. If anything, probably EY would probably do something like this as it currently has 2 US cities it flies to. It would ac
38 delimit : How fast could AA get their hands on 330s anyway? I am sure Airbus would move heaven and earth to fill a 330 order from AA, but isn't the 330 backlog
39 United_fan : They could probably do MIA-TLV with a 763W,I think a 777 is geared for the premium cabin.
40 LAXtoATL : Wouldn't that be a little far for a 763?
41 United_fan : Didn't LY do it with a 762?
42 indcwby : Not possible with a 763 nonstop.
43 yellowtail : I think EY might go to DFW first and avoid the bloodbath that EK and QR are starting to get into at IAH. With EK started its double daily....yields f
44 United_fan : I did not know MIA-TLV was longer than , say , SVO-LAX . I do now . It would have to be a 777.
45 SESGDL : Is there any credible evidence that any of this is actually being discussed? What is the source of this "rumor?" Without some evidence this thread is
46 flymia : The Miami area has the third highest Jewish population in the country after LA and NYC. Over 200,000 more then ORD. There is plenty of O/D and VFR tr
47 Post contains images worldliner : When are they purchasing their 77L's then?
48 indcwby : That's I said, in response to a DFW-Middle East route. It would make sense for EY to start from DFW as a 3rd US destination.
49 Viscount724 : ORD-AMM-DXB 6511 nm ORD-HEL-DXB 6305 nm (if service existed HEL-DXB) ORD-LHR-DXB 6407 nm ORD-CDG-DXB 6440 nm ORD-AMM-TLV 5478 nm ORD-HEL-TLV 5599 nm
50 AAExecPlat : Agreed on both counts. Would be nice to get at least an idea where the OP got this information from. And AA should have already announced more routes
51 ck8msp : I might have missed it but no one has yet mentioned what the "TW TLV" issue is. Did the old TWA stiff Israel at some point that AA will have to rectif
52 ckfred : Is AA management conservative, to the point of being too conservative? Yes. But think how many contracts that are open. You have the pilots, the F/As,
53 Post contains images yeogeo : AY currently operates HEL-DXB 2Xweekly. The problem with the routing is more the ORD-HEL segment, but that will be taken care of in the new year when
54 LipeGIG : Thanks, that's very informative. In the end the best chances for AA are, launching JFK-DXB with 772 and face strong competition, or wait for the 788,
55 AAExecPlat : Bingo. The choice is...launch now with an aircraft that's not perfectly suited and build up a loyal following on that route, or wait until you get th
56 Post contains images fxramper : AA is going to be doing all this flying from the 773s they get when JL divests a/c to offset their route restructure.
57 777STL : Israel has some rather stiff laws when it comes to retirement and pensions. When AA canceled TW's old TLV route, they skipped out on paying these pen
58 Post contains images delimit : Although not applicable to the example cited above, yes. If you get a really good deal it may be enough to make up for many years of lower operating e
59 web500sjc : The only thing that didn't look like it was out of the 80s on my last AA flight was the overhead tv and if those didn't actually look new, it would h
60 LipeGIG : I just fly F when i go with top customers which means 2/3 trips a year in general. What AA need to do in my view, and with two different alternatives
61 jfk777 : AA has missed out on anything in the Persian Gulf, The Arab World and west Asia with the exception of ORD to New Dehli, India. Dubai would be the obvi
62 indcwby : How does DFW being to far south making it a bad location? IAH has EK and QR.
63 jfk777 : Houston is the 4th biggest US metro area, don't know DFW but smaller. Just look at the airlines flying to Houston vs. DFW. AA doesn't have 777-300ER
64 Post contains links LAXdude1023 : DFW is the 4th largest metro area, Houston is the 6th. But it doesnt matter, that is completely unrealated to why Houston has gulf carriers and DFW d
65 Post contains links BOACCunard : No, it isn't. From here: 1 New York-Newark-Bridgeport, NY-NJ-CT-PA CSA 22,232,494 2 Los Angeles-Long Beach-Riverside, CA CSA 17,820,893 3 Chicago-Nap
66 indcwby : Make sense that AA wouldn't have the equipment to do this, but would be opportunity for other airlines.
67 jfk777 : Houston was(is) the 4th biggest area when British Caledondian launched flights there in 1978.
68 BOACCunard : Are you sure you don't mean fourth largest city? (Houston is in fact the fourth largest city, though city proper size is meaningless other than in a
69 indcwby : I just realized that a future route is possible when AA gets its 787-9, whenever that will be.
70 A380US : Not exactly, its only LY and DL everyone else goes via PHL, ATL, EWR, or anywhere in europe. And even with all these flights the only connection from
71 LAXdude1023 : Houston was never in the history of America, the 4th largest Metro area. It is the 4h largest city. I think you have the two confused.
72 klwright69 : I could be wrong, but I don't see AA serving DXB anytime soon. DXB has had an economic meltdown. DXB is completely saturated from the USA in general.
73 bobnwa : In order for AA to get its 787-9 it has to order them first.
74 washingtonian : MAH4546 and others: I'd still love to see some suggestions for how AA could catch up at this point to United or Delta with regards to network scope an
75 bobnwa : [quote=washingtonian,reply=74]So how exactly does AA catch up with their own metal as opposed to relying on alliance partners? AA does not need to be
76 Hiflyer : IMHO DL will fly the TLVMIA route...they have the aircraft and they have the pilot's agreement to fly the distance....AA right now has neither and app
77 LAXdude1023 : Not quite. The list I posted was the metro area, the list you posted combined statistical areas. One is not necesarily multi polar vs. the other. Bot
78 washingtonian : I disagree. If anything, I think the merger makes them more likely to fly IAD-TLV. They can route lower-yielding connecting traffic through IAD inste
79 incitatus : No definition will satisfy everybody. Being familiar with these areas, the lumping of Boston with Manchester/Providence really seems off to me. Same
80 flyfree727 : Any source yet? AA ORD
81 flybaby : IAD-TLV would be nice, but probably would only make sense with a 330, 350 or 787 and even then might not operate x7.
82 AABB777 : Still no source has been mentioned, and we've asked repeatedly for one. Seems to me this was just someone's idea of starting a dialogue on the possib
83 kl911 : LOL, AA is close to bankruptcy if they cant manage to refinance their massive debts. No way they will have the money to open up those routes.
84 AABB777 : AA is not close to bankruptcy. The JVs with BA/IB and JL bring AA even further from bankruptcy with the additional dollars that will soon begin to fl
85 LAXtoATL : Agreed. Let's wait to see. Its likely that the JVs will help AA, but its not guaranteed. This is highly debatable. First off they don't have the capa
86 GlobalCabotage : I work at AA HDQ1 on 6 East, next to International Planning. They have been actively evaluating the Middle East and DXB and TLV are the top two market
87 LAXtoATL : That is surprising. Any details on what items are the causing the problems? Also, did they not discuss this beforehand (like when JL decided to stick
88 GlobalCabotage : More technical and airport ops issues with JL. Integrating the schedules is already done and available for booking (look at ORD - NRT for example). Th
89 yeogeo : You work for AA yet have posted "rumors" re UA (ie: LIS is a "lock" as far as new routes for UA)? Please explain. yeo
90 MAH4546 : AA and JAL have set a press conference for Tuesday morning in Tokyo to update the public on their joint-venture, which is moving along very smoothly.
91 laca773 : GlobalCabotage, do you know if AA has the funds to pay the millions of dollars in back salaries with interest to ex TW TLV ground staff as well as th
92 MAH4546 : The amount of money that AA owes - an amount which is public and can be found on a simple Google search - is pocket change to company as cash rich as
93 AA767400 : I do find DFW-DXB to be far from a reality anytime soon. But remember that ORD-DXB is not flown by EY. They operate ORD-AUH. DXB in general is not a
94 Post contains images AAExecPlat : a) The money owed is a pittance relative to the potential pay-off and it's chump change for a corporation with $5 billoin in unrestricted cash. b) Be
95 AJMIA : I do not understand why everyone is screaming for a source for a post that the OP stated was a RUMOR. RUMOR = Talk or opinion widely disseminated with
96 airtechy : It does seem odd that even though the other major US airlines fly to TLV, AA chooses not to. If the money owed is so small, what is the real reason th
97 LAXtoATL : I remember...
98 crosswinds21 : So what's the amount? I couldn't find it on Google.
99 AAExecPlat : The same reason that they don't fly to LIS, AMS, FCO, ARN, etc...way too conservative on the route development and costs are too high. As happy as I
100 yeogeo : The source IS the interest. Would you pay more attention to a rumor from an industry insider or one from a kid with a laptop? (just an example; no re
101 shlomoz : LY has a code-share agreement with AA on most of AA's Europe to US flights and on many domestic US flights as well. Most of those pax are on LY ticke
102 discoverCSG : EK flies IAH-DXB daily.
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