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Is LH Upgrading CCS-FRA?  
User currently offlinetope98 From Venezuela, joined Dec 2005, 82 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 12103 times:

Happy New Year to eveyone!

I was looking for some flights and it looks like that starting next summer, LH is upgrading back its CCS-FRA to A346. Is it correct? If so, it would be one of the few good news on Venezuelan aviation.

Saludos,

66 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineac033 From Hong Kong, joined Jun 2008, 110 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 11976 times:

That is correct sir... LH is upgrading to A346 for summer season

User currently offlineflyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1888 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 11958 times:

I thought LH was ending this route

User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 11922 times:

Wasn't CCS-FRA already A346 service this past summer?

User currently offlinetope98 From Venezuela, joined Dec 2005, 82 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 11657 times:

Yes, it was A346 last summer, but it was downgraded to A343 on october after FRA-BOG service started. So good news then.

Thank you!


User currently onlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11409 posts, RR: 59
Reply 5, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks ago) and read 11258 times:
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This is good because will reduce the noise towards a potential cancellation of FRA-CCS because of FRA-BOG
Even better to see that LH is moving forward in Latin America and consolidates another market. Still missing GIG, LIM and SCL.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineRAFVC10 From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 1980 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 9926 times:
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Quoting ac033 (Reply 1):
That is correct sir... LH is upgrading to A346 for summer season

From March 27 until October 29, daily flights from FRA to CCS.



El dia que los gilipollas vuelen, no podremos ver la luz del sol!
User currently offlineLH506 From Ecuador, joined May 2007, 463 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 9827 times:

Quoting RAFVC10 (Reply 6):
From March 27 until October 29, daily flights from FRA to CCS.


Any changes on FRA-BOG for the summer?? Still 5/7 on 346? How is the route doing after two months?



NOT FLOWN: 707 717 736/9 764 77L 787 300B2 300B4 345 RJ70/146-100 F27 ATR72 CRJ1/4/10 E120/135/40/95 Q1/2/3 M87
User currently offlineLHPII From Croatia, joined May 2009, 179 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 9573 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 5):
Still missing GIG, LIM and SCL.

GIG is in a pipeline for this year.


User currently onlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11409 posts, RR: 59
Reply 9, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 9447 times:
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Quoting LHPII (Reply 8):
GIG is in a pipeline for this year.

I hope this become true. I was told about October 2011, as FRA-GIG 5 or 6x weekly service. JJ will increase their GIG-FRA service to daily before June.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineLH506 From Ecuador, joined May 2007, 463 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 9327 times:

Quoting tope98 (Thread starter):
Quoting LHPII (Reply 8):
GIG is in a pipeline for this year.

I hope this become true. I was told about October 2011, as FRA-GIG 5 or 6x weekly service. JJ will increase their GIG-FRA service to daily before June.

I actually heard that there is a great possibility that both LIM and GIG will come for winter schedule 2011.



NOT FLOWN: 707 717 736/9 764 77L 787 300B2 300B4 345 RJ70/146-100 F27 ATR72 CRJ1/4/10 E120/135/40/95 Q1/2/3 M87
User currently offlineRobffm2 From Germany, joined Dec 2006, 1113 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 9260 times:

Quoting LH506 (Reply 10):
I actually heard that there is a great possibility that both LIM and GIG will come for winter schedule 2011.

If this comes true Lufthansa is finally returning to South America with the presence the continent deserves.


User currently offlineRAFVC10 From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 1980 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 9248 times:
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Quoting LH506 (Reply 7):
Any changes on FRA-BOG for the summer?? Still 5/7 on 346? How is the route doing after two months?

No... year round, 5x week with Airbus A340-600.



El dia que los gilipollas vuelen, no podremos ver la luz del sol!
User currently offlineIAD380 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 804 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 9086 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 5):
Still missing GIG, LIM and SCL

And one other city in Brazil, such as REC, SSA, or CNF.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 9):
I was told about October 2011, as FRA-GIG 5 or 6x weekly service. JJ will increase their GIG-FRA service to daily before June

Won't the alliance that JJ/LA choose determine when LH returns to GIG? If JJ/LA choose One World, would LH more likely return to GIG sooner with more flights because JJ will change from a partner to a competitor in the largest and most important South American country? If they end up in Star, would LH postpone its return to GIG and codeshare on JJ flights?


User currently offlineRobffm2 From Germany, joined Dec 2006, 1113 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 9003 times:

Quoting IAD380 (Reply 13):
Won't the alliance that JJ/LA choose determine when LH returns to GIG? If JJ/LA choose One World, would LH more likely return to GIG sooner with more flights because JJ will change from a partner to a competitor in the largest and most important South American country? If they end up in Star, would LH postpone its return to GIG and codeshare on JJ flights?

I don't think that we will see any quick decision here. And any actual change will even take longer.

Thus Lufthansa will act on it's own. And they should act quickly before TAM picks up all the market. After all TAM and Lufthansa are still competing for business (I don't think they have an revenue sharing agreement).

Concerning the alliance question: Some weeks ago there were some news that JJ and LA might remain in their current alliances or that they might even be members of both. Whether that is feasible, sensible or allowable is another question.


User currently onlineeastern023 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 871 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 8864 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 5):
Still missing GIG, LIM and SCL.

It makes sense to think if JJ/LA or LATAM will decide for OneWorld (Why wouldn't they if Star already has AV/TA and CM). IMO LH would return with its own metal to those markets such as GIG, LIM and SCL simply because it will have no feeder unless they use AV (JJ feeds LH from SCL at GRU). On the SCL topic, I heard LH lost a lot of the cargo contracts after they pulled out a few years back, it will be an uphill battle trying to get those back from LA. On the other hands, AF is making a killing, so maybe its worth the try, now that the economy is better.

Quoting IAD380 (Reply 13):
Won't the alliance that JJ/LA choose determine when LH returns to GIG?

So maybe a return to GIG and a tag on to SCL...I say A346?



AA will Rise Again!
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8728 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 8807 times:
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Quoting LH506 (Reply 10):
I actually heard that there is a great possibility that both LIM and GIG will come for winter schedule 2011.

That is accurate. LH definitely plans on reinstating service between FRA and LIM by the end of 2011 or early 2012.

Quoting Robffm2 (Reply 14):
Thus Lufthansa will act on it's own. And they should act quickly before TAM picks up all the market. After all TAM and Lufthansa are still competing for business

Quite true, this also applies to other Star Alliance carriers which are increasing frequencies or launching new services into South America. For example, SQ will launch SIN-BCN-GRU 3x weekly in March. LH will operate MUC-GRU daily for Winter, 2011.

Quoting Robffm2 (Reply 14):
Some weeks ago there were some news that JJ and LA might remain in their current alliances or that they might even be members of both. Whether that is feasible, sensible or allowable is another question.

That is not feasible and LATAM will join only one alliance.

Quoting eastern023 (Reply 15):
IMO LH would return with its own metal to those markets such as GIG, LIM and SCL simply because it will have no feeder unless they use AV (JJ feeds LH from SCL at GRU).

LH currently code-shares with TACA between CCS and LIM:
LH7410: CCS-LIM
LH7411: LIM-CCS


User currently onlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11409 posts, RR: 59
Reply 17, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 8618 times:
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Quoting IAD380 (Reply 13):
Won't the alliance that JJ/LA choose determine when LH returns to GIG? If JJ/LA choose One World, would LH more likely return to GIG sooner with more flights because JJ will change from a partner to a competitor in the largest and most important South American country? If they end up in Star, would LH postpone its return to GIG and codeshare on JJ flights?

A little, but at the same point i believe LH is looking closer the increase of Rio O&D as well as the increased demand for travel to Rio due to new investments made by German corps as well as corps from other countries.
I don't think that JJ could postpone this return because JJ have limited capacity to GIG (220 seats/day) and right now even do not code-share with LH (this for me is very strange) and got loads around 85-90%

Quoting IAD380 (Reply 13):
And one other city in Brazil, such as REC, SSA, or CNF.

I believe we can see that in the future after LH resumes and consolidates Rio. Other potential route would be to POA as in the South of Brazil there's a strong VFR component as well as some business.

Quoting eastern023 (Reply 15):
So maybe a return to GIG and a tag on to SCL...I say A346?

That could happen but i do not expect. They rather do the tag from GRU as there will be room on FRA-GRU and MUC-GRU if they resume FRA-GIG.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5919 posts, RR: 40
Reply 18, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 8553 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 5):
This is good because will reduce the noise towards a potential cancellation of FRA-CCS because of FRA-BOG
Even better to see that LH is moving forward in Latin America and consolidates another market. Still missing GIG, LIM and SCL.

I hope all is true, but just returned on weekend to LIM via FRA-CCS and actually the flight was good booked in ECO but not in C and F and a good bunch of passengers went to LIM including myself. so lets see

Quoting LH506 (Reply 7):
Any changes on FRA-BOG for the summer?? Still 5/7 on 346? How is the route doing after two months?

well actually not really good, just flew the 17th of december the route BOG-FRA, and eco was ony 2/3 full and business maybe 40% first maybe 20%, also my mother traveled FRA-BOG and again flight nearly empty... but looks like bookings in eco are high but business is still very empty in the upcoming weeks.

Quoting LH506 (Reply 10):
I actually heard that there is a great possibility that both LIM and GIG will come for winter schedule 2011.

yep, would be really great to have LH back here! positiv point is that LIM is a very good and good yilding cargo route this helps always as minimum revue per flight will be around 25.000 to 35.000 USD one way!

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 16):
LH currently code-shares with TACA between CCS and LIM:
LH7410: CCS-LIM
LH7411: LIM-CCS

yes and routing a lot of passengers on the flight



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offline797 From Venezuela, joined Aug 2005, 1890 posts, RR: 28
Reply 19, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 8524 times:

Quoting Avianca (Reply 18):
well actually not really good, just flew the 17th of december the route BOG-FRA, and eco was ony 2/3 full and business maybe 40% first maybe 20%, also my mother traveled FRA-BOG and again flight nearly empty... but looks like bookings in eco are high but business is still very empty in the upcoming weeks.

Not surprising at all. I wasn't expecting this route to perform at least until mid-2011. I believe the A346 is being over-used on this route and firmly believe the service should be reduced to less flights per week. Having CCS, BOG and LIM would be biting too big of a chunk of the pie.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 16):
That is not feasible and LATAM will join only one alliance.

They will join Oneworld. LAN's role in the OW alliance is too important, whereas TAM's role in Star is merely present. Moreover, having Avianca-Taca and Copa in Star, the conflicts in the continent would be humongous having the largest airline group join them as well. My prayers go with SkyTeam   

Cheers!



Flying isn't dangerous. Crashing is what's dangerous!
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8728 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 8436 times:
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Quoting 797 (Reply 19):
whereas TAM's role in Star is merely present. Moreover, having Avianca-Taca and Copa in Star, the conflicts in the continent would be humongous having the largest airline group join them as well.

IMO, when Copa Airlines, Copa Colombia, Avianca-Taca, and Aerogal signed onto Star Alliance, it clearly showed that they are prepared to lose LATAM! Plus AC has not been quite "courteous" to LAN in anyway. LH knows that they cannot operate into SCL non-stop, LH and LX dumped SCL in 2009.

Quoting 797 (Reply 19):
My prayers go with SkyTeam
oneworld has been extremely courteous and has offered incentives to LAN, especially AA/BA/CX/IB/JL/QF. But, IMO, SkyTeam is also a great alliance and LAN will still maintain a relationship with AM and KE. Also, DL has not been "aggressive" towards LAN in anyway, and LAN currently maintains a good relationship with KE/AM. LA code-shares with KE on the LAX-ICN-LAX route daily. And JJ is now getting a "taste" of Star Alliance; which simply goes to show why Star ruined its chances with LATAM months ago.

[Edited 2011-01-05 01:01:05]

User currently offlineLH506 From Ecuador, joined May 2007, 463 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 8303 times:

Quoting IAD380 (Reply 13):
Won't the alliance that JJ/LA choose determine when LH returns to GIG? If JJ/LA choose One World, would LH more likely return to GIG sooner with more flights because JJ will change from a partner to a competitor in the largest and most important South American country? If they end up in Star, would LH postpone its return to GIG and codeshare on JJ flights?



I am sure that the LATAM situation will push LH to start GIG rather sooner than later. The same is true for LIM. With AV-TA being a strong player in LIM there is certainly discussions ongoing how TA and LH could benefit from each other, especially if you take into consideration the growing dominance of LA(TAM) in LIM and Peru.

Quoting 797 (Reply 19):
Not surprising at all. I wasn't expecting this route to perform at least until mid-2011. I believe the A346 is being over-used on this route and firmly believe the service should be reduced to less flights per week. Having CCS, BOG and LIM would be biting too big of a chunk of the pie



I understood that LH has some lucrative cargo contracts from BOG. The 346 can carry a lot more than the 343 from BOG (altitude and runway length). That is the reason they chose the 346.
I agree though, that it will take some years until LH can fill all three destinations profitably year around.



NOT FLOWN: 707 717 736/9 764 77L 787 300B2 300B4 345 RJ70/146-100 F27 ATR72 CRJ1/4/10 E120/135/40/95 Q1/2/3 M87
User currently onlineeastern023 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 871 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 8173 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 20):
LH knows that they cannot operate into SCL non-stop, LH and LX dumped SCL in 2009.

This is true. With the right cargo agreements and the better current economic environment it may work. It works for AF, someone has to compete head on to LAN. I get it LAN is a great thing, buthas also keep competition low at SCL.

Besides the point, so if Star wants more presence in latin america, how about UA/CO start with tag on from EZE or GRU to places like MVD or SCL. I think IAD-EZE-SCL could work.....on a 777. I know, I am day dreaming.....but still!



AA will Rise Again!
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8728 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 8097 times:
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Quoting eastern023 (Reply 22):
This is true. With the right cargo agreements and the better current economic environment it may work.

Lufthansa Cargo/AeroLogic currently operates FRA-VCP-SCL-VCP-FRA 2x weekly, (B777F).

Quoting eastern023 (Reply 22):
how about UA/CO start with tag on from EZE or GRU to places like MVD or SCL.

UA used to operate between EZE and MVD in the past; however UA pulled out of MVD. Currently, AC operates SCL-EZE-SCL 6x weekly, (B773).

Quoting eastern023 (Reply 22):
I think IAD-EZE-SCL could work.....on a 777. I know, I am day dreaming.....but still!

IMO, I think that SCL-LIM-IAD would be a better routing, utilizing a B763 for the time being...


User currently offlineLH506 From Ecuador, joined May 2007, 463 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 8036 times:

Quoting eastern023 (Reply 22):
Besides the point, so if Star wants more presence in latin america, how about UA/CO start with tag on from EZE or GRU to places like MVD or SCL. I think IAD-EZE-SCL could work.....on a 777. I know, I am day dreaming.....but still!
Quoting SCL767 (Reply 23):
IMO, I think that SCL-LIM-IAD would be a better routing, utilizing a B763 for the time being...

If JJ leaves *A we will first of all see an adjustment of TAs SCL-LIM so it fits perfectly with UA/CO and a future LIM-FRA to have some presence in SCL. I do not think that AV Brasil will venture on GRU-SCL, so they cannot feed *A in GRU. A second step after capturing some traffic maybe a tag on some GRU/LIM/EZE/GIG/BOG flights.



NOT FLOWN: 707 717 736/9 764 77L 787 300B2 300B4 345 RJ70/146-100 F27 ATR72 CRJ1/4/10 E120/135/40/95 Q1/2/3 M87
25 Robffm2 : I think POA is much more likely for LH in comparison to the northeast. For purely personal reasons I hope on Star.
26 SCL767 : UA already code-shares with TACA/LASCA on the LIM-SCL-LIM route: UA5363/UA5336 LIM-SCL-LIM 3x weekly (Operated by TACA) UA5384/UA5392 LIM-SCL-LIM 4x
27 IrishAyes : Lufthansa dropped SCL way prior to 2009. LX had no reason to continue SCL as a tag-on from GRU when JJ was perfectly capable of serving the market. O
28 LH506 : My point is that competition on the route by LA and JJ is too strong and AV Brazil too small in GRU/Brazil in general to earn any money on the route.
29 SCL767 : Especially since LAN got the cargo contracts. United will soon launch SFO-IAH-LIM (B763) daily, UA still operates IAD-EZE (B763) daily, IAD-GRU (B763
30 IAD380 : Maybe not. If AF can successfully serve these three markets, LH should also be able to do so. Germany probably has stronger commercial, financial, an
31 SCL767 : US also operates CLT-GIG (B762) daily. It should be noted that DL will increase frequency and capacity on the ATL-GYE route to 5x weekly (B752) and th
32 797 : Good point. I recall hearing that LAN often has break-even load factors of 34% when their cargo bins are packed with expensive stuff. If the cargo de
33 DCAjet : A few observations on the UA IAD-Brazil flights: The IAD-GRU is daily with 777, not 763. UA also operates to GIG nonstop from IAD with a 763 during t
34 LipeGIG : I hope that happens. LH is a big missing point in Rio as they can drive Rio-Asia market up enough to make Rio a target also for other carriers. The p
35 LH506 : So do I. There is some German investment in SSA (Continental AG has a plant). Condor flies 2/7 to SSA which means German package holiday organizers m
36 DCAjet : Thus far - watch for developments in this area once the merger is more definite - they will give AA and DL a run for their money. The SFO-IAH-LIM is
37 Robffm2 : In May 2011 DE will also start (again) to fly to REC (1/7). I personally would love to see more flights from Germany to the northeast (including FOR)
38 LPSHobby : is there demand for both JJ and LH daily flights?
39 AF086 : Easily. There's also demand for unserved markets such as AMS, OSL and BCN.
40 LH506 : If AF & JJ can fill three flights to CDG, LH & JJ should be able to fill two to FRA And LH does not care too much about package tour operator
41 SJOtoLIR : POA has a runway of 7481 feet long and LH may find constraints for their 343s or 346s there and depending in how that station may be served and route
42 LipeGIG : Agree with you that South America is, together with Africa, one of the few markets where UA have limited activity and can add some new markets/routes
43 LH506 : Havn't even thought about that Switzerland thing. Good point. You think, Swiss could fill a 3-4 weekly ZRH-GIG in addition to LH and JJ to FRA and in
44 LipeGIG : I remember last time i saw O&D info, ZRH-GIG was something like 20,000 passengers/year and this was 2009. After Rio got FIFA Headquarters for the
45 AF086 : There are a few catches. If LH is taking so long to return to GIG, I wonder how long LX will take. Also the Brazil-Switzerland bilateral is nearing i
46 LH506 : They could keep two or three 332s. Perfect aircraft for ZRH-GIG.
47 Avianca : guys remember, that A343 of LH can carrie more cargo than the A346 due the lower deck kitchens + some toilets, bringing it that the A346 has lower po
48 LHPII : Wrong. Although LH's A346's have 5 toilets, galley and cabin crew rest in cargo compartment, they still carry more cargo then A343's
49 NYCFlyer : Pardon my ignorance, and I am not trying to make any political statements here. But how has CCS remained a profitable destination, to the point that L
50 IAD380 : Also, how can foreign airlines profitably manage their day-to-day operations in CCS when the government limits their ability to exchange foreign curr
51 SJOtoLIR : The code-sharing operations between TA-LH should had been contributed to the progress of LH in Venezuela. TA LIM-CCS bears the LH code since 2008 app
52 Post contains links Avianca : well you can check under page 26 http://lufthansa-cargo.com/fileadmin...ere_Lademittel_Aircraft_gesamt.pdf actually 343-300 has 32 LD3 positions and
53 LH506 : Actually somebody stated in another thread (I cannot remember where I read it) that the 346 can carry more cargo out of BOG (runway length and altitu
54 troest : I guess because of TA feed from LIM and AV from BOG. Also Venezuelan citizens do not need a visa to the EU? Regards[Edited 2011-01-11 05:47:00]
55 eastern023 : I thought they did.
56 Avianca : still not!
57 SJOtoLIR : I think so based on my reply 51. New ways of cooperation may begin due to LH FRA-BOG 5x weekly. Regards.
58 LH506 : Will be interesting to see how LH will handle the codeshares and connecting pax in the future. I would envison FRA-CCS only serves for passengers goi
59 eastern023 : Since JJ is known to be leaving Star LH is going to be left without a feeder partner for SCL. Is LH starting an agreement with Sky Airlines Chile (H2
60 kiwiandrew : Are they really ? Please provide a source for this assertion . At the moment they have only signed a non-binding agreement with LAN for the LATAM mer
61 stylo777 : judging from the positions you are right in theory, however, on longer routes the 340-300 has also the MCR (movable crew rest) installed on position
62 SCL767 : CO currently operates IAH-LIM daily, (B752). UA is simply taking over the route from CO. The routing that UA chose (SFO-IAH-LIM) is not surprising si
63 Avianca : these are shared flights, same with the LA freighters to VCP-EZE-SCL
64 SJOtoLIR : Lufthansa already signed a code-share cooperation deal with Avianca allowing the LH code in selected flights operated domestically in Colombia: Medel
65 Avianca : LH is selling already ex LIM the option via BOG like a hell, specially on the eastbound to avoid the "CCS guardia national nightmare"
66 eastern023 : Please see my new thread "LAN & TAM sign binding agreement" ...I think you already had...
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