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LAN Will Be Stopping YYZ Service Effective April 1  
User currently offlinetransaeroyyz From Canada, joined Dec 2010, 150 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 11 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 12069 times:

LAN will be stopping YYZ service effective April 1st. No reason given...
My brother was on the New York leg last summer and only 50 people aboard on 767, i think thats the reason..

http://www.mississauga.com/news/busi...rican-airline-pulls-out-of-pearson

60 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinekeagkid101 From Portugal, joined Mar 2010, 306 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12250 times:

That's too bad. I don't believe doing Santiago-YYZ via JFK was the best idea. New York-YYZ already has a sufficient amount of service. Judging by your brother's JFK-YYZ flight, most of the passengers were not Toronto bound. So, Toronto may not have been the best place to serve.

User currently offlineac033 From Hong Kong, joined Jun 2008, 111 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12231 times:

Not too surprised, but i was expecting them to reduce their frequency instead a full pull out.
I think they are dead for follow reasons:
- Long turnover (Arriving at 11:40 and departs 16:30 is a bit long for a round trip JFK-YYZ)
- High operating cost(B763 is just suitable for this route, with the money they spend on crew, landing fee and fuel )

I think they could start more codeshare with American Eagle, since AE is operating 4 daily JFK-YYZ.

Its sad to see them go away

AC33


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3728 posts, RR: 19
Reply 3, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12150 times:

The flight never made sense at all. I presume the only reason it existed was because of cargo. Maybe we will see LIM-YYZ instead.
I hope that the LAN-TAM merger brings one good thing out of it, the end of all of LAN's ridiculous tag-on flights.


User currently offlineyegbey01 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1732 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12121 times:

AC offers a really good service to SCL. My wife and I flew to Chile and Argentine for our honeymoon back in 2008 (when we still lived in Toronto). We loved the AC xm'ed back then in Exec First going out direct from YYZ and not having to stop somewhere along the way

User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12104 times:

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 3):
I presume the only reason it existed was because of cargo. Maybe we will see LIM-

It will also free up 5 weekly slots at JFK. LA SCL-JFK goes daily in March and LP will launch LIM-JFK. LAN will also launch SCL-LIM-YYZ and BOG-YYZ.


User currently offlineyyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16335 posts, RR: 56
Reply 6, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12116 times:

To compete against AC, they needed to operate YYZ-SCL nonstop. The JFK stop was inconvenient for passengers.

Perhaps they will re-enter YYZ with 2-3x weekly YYZ-SCL nonstops to start, at some point.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2230 posts, RR: 15
Reply 7, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 11962 times:

This flight never made sense. Loads looked awful.

Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 5):
AC offers a really good service to SCL. My wife and I flew to Chile and Argentine for our honeymoon back in 2008 (when we still lived in Toronto). We loved the AC xm'ed back then in Exec First going out direct from YYZ and not having to stop somewhere along the way

I agree that AC offers a great service from YYZ to Latin America.



next flights: jfk-icn, icn-hkg-bkk-cdg, cdg-phl-msp
User currently offlineac033 From Hong Kong, joined Jun 2008, 111 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 11924 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 6):

Do you have any firm news on that? That sound really exciting with 2 new routes into YYZ, when they just decide to cancel one.

Thanks
Andy


User currently offlinecrazyfoo88 From Canada, joined Feb 2005, 81 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 11565 times:

Would be interesting if they do to the SPIM and SKBO routing, Air Canada has 763s on both routes. And with connections LAN would be a way better choice for both routes.


crazyfoo88
User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4999 posts, RR: 51
Reply 10, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 11282 times:

Quoting crazyfoo88 (Reply 10):
Would be interesting if they do to the SPIM and SKBO routing, Air Canada has 763s on both routes. And with connections LAN would be a way better choice for both routes.

Disagree. AC's YYZ global network gives them the upper hand on these routes, and not to mention their significant point-of-sale Canada strength.

LAN would be unwise to try to go head-to-head with AC on markets such as LIM/BOG/SCL, which are not markets that are not huge volume markets by any stretch.


User currently offlinecrazyfoo88 From Canada, joined Feb 2005, 81 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 11230 times:

Quoting FLYYUL (Reply 11):

I would also disagree. Between LIM (6/week) and BOG (8/week) on Air Canada that is not that much capacity. Obviously passengers are traveling a lot to SCL as well as the 773ER is put on YYZ-SCL/GRU in the winter schedule.

Looking at the star alliance website, the only other parter in LIM and BOG is TAM.

TAM only has 14 weekly departures from LIM, so again thats not really the greatest coverage. With LAN flying not to just major but smaller markets in Southern America, I would say they have more coverage.

BOG is almost the same, with only 11 connection possibilities in 1 week. That really isn't good connection possibilities if you ask me!

I would say there is room for more competition here, and LAN would be playing their cards right. This YYZJFK tag only makes sense because of the aircraft downtime in JFK. Economically I believe it makes way more sense to go on more competitive routes and fly directly to Canada from South America, which appears what LAN might be trying.



crazyfoo88
User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4999 posts, RR: 51
Reply 12, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 11203 times:

Quoting crazyfoo88 (Reply 12):
I would also disagree. Between LIM (6/week) and BOG (8/week) on Air Canada that is not that much capacity. Obviously passengers are traveling a lot to SCL as well as the 773ER is put on YYZ-SCL/GRU in the winter schedule.

Looking at the star alliance website, the only other parter in LIM and BOG is TAM.

TAM only has 14 weekly departures from LIM, so again thats not really the greatest coverage. With LAN flying not to just major but smaller markets in Southern America, I would say they have more coverage.

BOG is almost the same, with only 11 connection possibilities in 1 week. That really isn't good connection possibilities if you ask me!

I would say there is room for more competition here, and LAN would be playing their cards right. This YYZJFK tag only makes sense because of the aircraft downtime in JFK. Economically I believe it makes way more sense to go on more competitive routes and fly directly to Canada from South America, which appears what LAN might be trying.

Yes, but AC draws a lot of connection passengers from all over North America at YYZ. There are something like 800 AC arrivals/departures in YYZ per day. LAN will not have this luxury.

I strongly doubt you will see LAN on YYZ-BOG, YYZ-LIM would be a tough sell considering the competition.. and the market sizes are not that generous.

LAN should look at working with OneWorld members (i.e. DFW/ORD), and look at poorly served North America markets where they can leverage LIM as a South America transfer point.


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 11202 times:

Quoting crazyfoo88 (Reply 10):
Would be interesting if they do to the SPIM and SKBO routing, Air Canada has 763s on both routes. And with connections LAN would be a way better choice for both routes.

LAN will utilize the B763 as well. LAN will receive 3 new B763s this year. An SCL-LIM-YYZ routing would do extremely IMO. At LIM, LAN (LATAM) will be able to offer connections to/from Argentina, Brazil, Bolivia, Chile, and Uruguay, plus domestic connections with-in Peru and cargo as well. LAN Colombia will operate the BOG-YYZ route. Also, unlike AC, LAN and TAM have a huge frequent flyer base in South America, not to mention LAN has a much lower cost structure than Air Canada.

Quoting crazyfoo88 (Reply 12):
I would also disagree. Between LIM (6/week) and BOG (8/week) on Air Canada that is not that much capacity. Obviously passengers are traveling a lot to SCL as well as the 773ER is put on YYZ-SCL/GRU in the winter schedule.

AC operates YYZ-BOG 3x weekly and YYZ-LIM 3x weekly. AC will soon operate YYZ-SCL-EZE-SCL-YYZ 5x weekly with the B763. AC can't even manage to operate into EZE non-stop. Also, at LIM, LAN operates LIM-EZE 3x daily, (B763) and LIM-GRU 19x weekly. LIM-GRU will soon operate 3x daily, (TAM currently operates GRU-LIM daily).


User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4999 posts, RR: 51
Reply 14, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 11189 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 14):
LAN will utilize the B763 as well. LAN will receive 3 new B763s this year. An SCL-LIM-YYZ routing would do extremely IMO. At LIM, LAN (LATAM) will be able to offer connections to/from Argentina, Brazil, Bolivia, Chile, and Uruguay, plus domestic connections with-in Peru and cargo as well. LAN Colombia will operate the BOG-YYZ route. Also, unlike AC, LAN and TAM have a huge frequent flyer base in South America, not to mention LAN has a much lower cost structure than Air Canada.

Clarify your source please, what are the regulatory rights for LAN between Colombia and Canada?


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 11205 times:

Quoting FLYYUL (Reply 15):
Clarify your source please, what are the regulatory rights for LAN between Colombia and Canada?

LAN already has governmental approval to operate between LIM and YYZ. AIRES Colombia also holds the route authority to operate BOG-YYZ, however AIRES was recently acquired by LAN and will be incorporated into LATAM Airlines Group. LAN Colombia will begin operations in a few weeks.


User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4999 posts, RR: 51
Reply 16, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 11149 times:

SCL767, I know your a LAN cheerleader, and that is all fine etc. Do you actually know the market sizes between YYZ-BOG/LIM/SCL? I bet if you saw them, you'd be scratching your head trying to understand how;

a.) LAN intends to fill YYZ-BOG with a 763 with limited feed beyond BOG, and it can't tap into YUL (which is almost as big as YYZ in terms of OD market size) and YOW/YVR/YYC/YWG/YHZ etc etc.

Colombian immigration to Canada has been quite large in the last year, but as per the census, the immigration is split something like 55% YYZ / 45% YUL.

b.) LAN intends to compete on YYZ-LIM with the same conditions mentioned in A.


These are not markets with overwhelming abundance of volumes. And to your point, if AC is offering only 5 weekly to SCL, then there's a damn good reason behind that.


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 11111 times:

Quoting FLYYUL (Reply 17):
Do you actually know the market sizes between YYZ-BOG/LIM/SCL? I bet if you saw them, you'd be scratching your head trying to understand how;

You fail to realize that LIM is a major hub for LAN and soon TAM. The same argument your making was made before LAN launched LIM-SFO, and guess what, LIM-SFO goes daily this Summer.

Quoting FLYYUL (Reply 17):
LAN intends to fill YYZ-BOG with a 763 with limited feed beyond BOG,

LAN (and TAM) have major plans in regards to its new hub at BOG and LAN will not deploy the B763 on the BOG-YYZ route. I wonder why AC has already pulled its fourth weekly YYZ-BOG service for Summer, 2011?


User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4999 posts, RR: 51
Reply 18, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 11124 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 18):

You fail to realize that LIM is a major hub for LAN and soon TAM. The same argument your making was made before LAN launched LIM-SFO, and guess what, LIM-SFO goes daily this Summer.

Nobody serves SFO-South America non-stop. I understand LAN uses this service in conjunction with Asia feed possibilities with One World partners at SFO (JL/CX etc)


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 11052 times:

Quoting FLYYUL (Reply 19):

YYZ is an even more attractive transit point for South America-Asia traffic since Canada does not require transit visas like the U.S. LAN also has a commercial agreement with KE, (and soon HU). Also, it's rumoured that LAN and WestJet may soon enter into a commercial agreement of some sort, we will just have to wait and see...


User currently offlineBOACCunard From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 864 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 11017 times:

Quoting FLYYUL (Reply 18):
Nobody serves SFO-South America non-stop.

Surely LAN's SFO-LIM service qualifies.



Getting There is Half the Fun!
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3728 posts, RR: 19
Reply 21, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 10461 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 19):
since Canada does not require transit visas like the U.S.

Actually, it does!


User currently offlinebeeweel15 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1778 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 10363 times:

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 6):
The JFK stop was inconvenient for passengers.

Plus all pax had to deplane at JFK


User currently offlinelaca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4058 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 10192 times:
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Quoting FLYYUL (Reply 16):

a.) LAN intends to fill YYZ-BOG with a 763 with limited feed beyond BOG, and it can't tap into YUL (which is almost as big as YYZ in terms of OD market size) and YOW/YVR/YYC/YWG/YHZ etc etc.

A 763 is going to be too large for BOG-YYZ-BOG. They could operate this route with a A319LR and give the route a chance verus going in full force with a 763 which won't give this route a chance to work.


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 9967 times:

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 21):
Actually, it does!

Thanks for the correction; no wonder airlines like EK and QR will soon increase flights into South America.


25 Post contains links and images Kaiarahi : Wrong! See http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/visit/visas.asp Rumours come and go ... especially rumours of WS interline agreements. Even if it happens, WS
26 SCL767 : It's already been mentioned, and it is why countries like Chile have mandatory reciprocity fees imposed on Canadian citizens entering Chilean territo
27 Grid : Gosh, what did your brother do?
28 Summa767 : Then there is no ned for LIM-YYZ and BOG-YYZ Though out of these 2, LIM-YYZ would probably have the best chance given that LA has a decent operation
29 7673mech : Interesting thread. As usual there are many anti-Lan people here. I guess the fact that they are one of the most successful South American operators m
30 Kaiarahi : Wrong again. S Americans need a transit visa for UAE. BTW, better give EK everything they want, or the UAE will start charging $1000 for a visa. And
31 Kaiarahi : Last post was screwed up by the edit function (again)! Then what's the point in bringing them to YYZ where LA has no code-shares to YUL/YOW etc? On th
32 Kaiarahi : Facts + reality check ≠ anti-LA.
33 Post contains links directorguy : No one need a visa for an airside connection at DXB (or anywhere in the Gulf for that matter). Source: http://www.delta.com/planning_reserv...isa_pas
34 Kaiarahi : From the UAE government website: "Transit Visas This type of visa is a 4-day (96 hour) visa, which is issued by sponsorship of an airline operating i
35 SCL767 : IMO a SCL-LIM-YYZ routing will most likely succeed and is most logical. Such a routing would enable connections to multiple destinations and cargo lo
36 yeogeo : Maybe in your head you had a modifier or two attached to this sentence, but at face value this sentence is false. I'm curious, what did you mean to s
37 Post contains images planeguy727 : I think most people are missing the most important point here - no more widebody 5th freedom flight between JFK and YYZ. JFK continues to see 5th free
38 LipeGIG : Thanks for the news, i never understood why not MIA-YYZ instead of JFK-YYZ, where feed was limited to a single flight. MIA in the other hand could wo
39 SCL767 : That is not true. At JFK, LAN operates SCL-JFK 6x weekly, (operates daily year-round starting in March), SCL-LIM-JFK daily and GYE-JFK 9x weekly. The
40 longhauler : I don't understand this, is LAN not pulling out of the Canadian market? How is this a threat? I would imagine if LAN thought they could succeed in th
41 sebring : Air Canada's South American services also have to be placed in context with those of its Star Alliance and other partners. On Toronto-Bogota, it partn
42 SCL767 : Firstly, LAN never stated that the airline is pulling out of the Canadian market PERMANENTLY. Secondly, AC provides South American pax connections to
43 LipeGIG : EZE, GRU and SCL have service to YYZ. This reduces a lot the potential of LIM-YYZ. To become not true, you will prove to me that JFK have more LA ser
44 longhauler : Absolutely! As would BA, LH, AF, KL, LX, etc etc etc. What's your point? And what does this have to do with LAN pulling out of Canada? If you wish, t
45 SCL767 : So I guess that LAN's growth is severely limited because of AC and other airlines as well? Then why does LAN plan on adding 2 new B763s to LP's fleet
46 Post contains images Kaiarahi : And why do you think they did that? If the traffic were there, they wouldn't have reduced the frequency. Same reason LA is pulling out of YYZ - the t
47 Post contains links SCL767 : LAN is simply dropping the JFK-YYZ tag-on because the a/c can be utilized elsewhere. LAN is not "pulling out of YYZ", LAN Airlines has officially sta
48 Kaiarahi : No one said it was. But you said AC was Canada's national carrier. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck .... "Suspending operations" and "p
49 longhauler : Without getting too technical, it is a delicate balance. Some are restricted by frequencies, some by number of seats, some by freight tonnage. Some a
50 DCAJet : Oh my... that is a ton of corporate speak: the art of talking without saying anything, other than trying to hide the obvious: LA is leaving YYZ becau
51 Post contains images Kaiarahi : No idea what you're trying to prove or why, but the share price alone means nothing without the number of issued shares (shares x price = market capi
52 LipeGIG : I can guarantee all of them will not go to Canada. LA could better fly to ORD, LAS, more services to LAX, rather than an adventure at this point to C
53 FLYYUL : the YYZ operation is just an example of bad route planning. Using the dead-time in JFK off the SCL/LIM arrivals early AM, to fly a B767 one hour to a
54 JAGflyer : I think LAN does good with the cargo on the Santiago-YYZ route. Judging by what I have seen coming off the planes they must make up some of their cost
55 Viscount724 : However AC's YYZ-EZE service is one-stop via SCL (I think you implied it was nonstop in another reply). That makes a potential well-timed EZE-LIM-YYZ
56 Kaiarahi : Would it make sense for AC to do YYZ-LIM-EZE/return and YYZ/BOG/SCL/return. The Canada-Peru bilateral is very old, but both EZE and SCL seem to have
57 Viscount724 : CP lost their 5th freedom rights LIM-SCL and LIM-EZE in the mid-1970s. Not sure what's happened to the bilateral since.
58 Kaiarahi : Me neither. It's a (very) old bilateral - dating from the 50s. But Canada's waiting on Peruvian ratification of an FTA - we'll see (I'm sure). But wo
59 Post contains links yeogeo : One leaves YYZ and another one starts: JMYVR reports Copa to start YYZ-PTY service. http://airlineroute.net/2011/01/02/cm-s11/#more-28409 Panama City
60 danimarroquin : mmmmm , maybe this could be a good chance for AV to do a YYZ - BOG - LIM in a A320 , since the occupation was not that high . the A319 or 320 would do
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