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Speculation: Delta International First Class  
User currently offlinedl767captain From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2539 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 10143 times:

I'll start by saying this is pure speculation, guessing, and just general inquiry.

I was wondering the other day what a Delta International first class would look like and feel like. This would be a step above Business Elite and would be on certain routes like LHR routes and Asian routes where many competitors have First class products. Now this isn't a "will it work" or "would it be profitable" speculation thread, this is a what seat and amenities would DL use for an international first class. So what does everyone think DL would do?

17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10666 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 9956 times:

Just as an FYI, when DL first started flying to LGW, SNN, FRA & CDG with Tristars, there was a First Class, Business Class and Coach. Can't remember how long that lasted, but it wasn't all that long before they eliminated First and just had Business and Coach.

Also can't remember if they called Business class, BusinessElite right away or if that was somewhere down the road.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6648 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 9902 times:

If DL were to introduce an international F class, it would have to be well differentiated enough from BusinessElite. It would probably have to be something like this:



Of course this would look quite strange in blue leather. Red leather would be much more beautiful.



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlinenycbjr From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 447 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 9648 times:

Quoting mayor (Reply 1):

  

Flew to CDG from jfk once in F on a 763, brown leather seats with a portable dat video player for a movie. (Was a complete accident when I booked it, I thought for sure I would get fired!)

My way back I was in J not sure if it was called BE at the time, or was in transition, they had these blue/grey (I think) checkered seats with manual controls but flip up video screens (which as a Network engineer I loved).

In fact all my euro trips were in J (cept that once), I got to see the transition to the BE recliner that is now on the way out, how luxurious I thought it was!

(wave)


User currently offlinepanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4977 posts, RR: 25
Reply 4, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 9594 times:
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Flew DL international F a few times in the early 90s on the 763ERs and L15s to Europe from JFK. They gave out Tiffany gifts to each F passenger, and the meal service was superb - they even had palate cleansers between courses...

User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8513 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 9562 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

A new Delta FIRST would have to be a suite product. It would be on 777 & 747's, probably not the 767's. Maybe on the 764's. Interesting to see, J'berg, Sydney, NRT, HKG, CDG and a few others could use an F cabin.

User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6648 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 9529 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 5):
A new Delta FIRST would have to be a suite product. It would be on 777 & 747's, probably not the 767's. Maybe on the 764's. Interesting to see, J'berg, Sydney, NRT, HKG, CDG and a few others could use an F cabin.

I would probably say it would be included on the 764ERs, A330s, 777s, and 744s. Speaking of the 744, if DL were to introduce an international F product, would DL put the F cabin at the nose of the aircraft like most airlines, or would DL do the LH approach by putting F on the upper deck?



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineklkla From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 946 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 9159 times:

Speaking as a Delta Diamond Medallion I hope they DO NOT introduce international first class. Over 90% of my travel is international in Business Elite (almost always upgraded from M fare). One of the things I hated about being 1K with United is that Business travelers are treated like second class citizens. On two class airlines, Business Clas is as good as it gets and from my experience are treated better than business class passengers on airlines with three classes (I've noticed this particularly on UA, AA and AF).

It's also unlikely that Delta will do this. They've got their hands full now just trying to get lie flat BE seats rolled out fleetwide.


User currently offlinedavescj From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 2307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 9142 times:

To be fair, I think DL J is a good product. I've flown BA, DL, AA, AF in J. DL has a GREAT J product. BA's F product is NOT so superior to J that I would pay either money or miles for it. Better wine, fancier food. In BA, the service is a step up, and the sleep suits are nice. Other than that? Not much if you're on a night flight to be honest.

With DL going to flat bed J, I cannot see them investing in an F product. Remember, most skyteam partners have only two cabins internationally. Why would DL add an F? To compete with whom?

Dave



Can I have a mojito on this flight?
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 26021 posts, RR: 22
Reply 9, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 9088 times:

Not enough people (or their employers) are willling to pay the published F class fare now, meaning that on many airlines still offering an F class product a lot of seats are filled with upgrades and frequent flyer redemptions. Using all the real estate needed even for a few F class seats is unlikely to offset the revenue loss from the displaced J or Y class seats. Even 2 rows of F class with 8 seats on a widebody with today's F class standards takes the space of about 50 Y class seats.

User currently offlinedeltairlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8913 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 9068 times:

Keep in mind that the industry trend is moving more and more to a two-cabin product, or if it is a three-cabin, it's Business, Premium Economy and Economy (where Business is more akin to the F of the 1980s and PremEcon is more akin to the J of the 1980s).

User currently offlineflyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 2019 posts, RR: 21
Reply 11, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 9027 times:

Quoting deltairlines (Reply 10):
Keep in mind that the industry trend is moving more and more to a two-cabin product, or if it is a three-cabin, it's Business, Premium Economy and Economy (where Business is more akin to the F of the 1980s and PremEcon is more akin to the J of the 1980s).

yeah but with a lot of those carriers that have premium economy they might as well have F, J, and Y because they seem to be getting more and more generous with their premium economy seats, AF comes to mind in particular.


User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10666 posts, RR: 14
Reply 12, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 8824 times:

Quoting nycbjr (Reply 3):
My way back I was in J not sure if it was called BE at the time, or was in transition, they had these blue/grey (I think) checkered seats with manual controls but flip up video screens (which as a Network engineer I loved).

J was not called Business Elite until they removed the F seats and combined the services into J.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlinenewyork355 From France, joined Jul 2004, 148 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 8420 times:

It was in 1999, I believe, that Delta transitioned from three classes to the new Business Elite Product. Here's a link to the Business Elite rollout promotional material on airchives:

http://airchive.com/html/memorabilia...lta/1999-delta-business-elite/454#



"No Way BA/AA"
User currently offlinenycbjr From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 447 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7589 times:

Quoting mayor (Reply 12):

Sorry should have been more clear I rememeber this aircraft having no F, but thank you for the clarification. I do regret not flying on an L10 as I thought how old it was and wanted noting more than a 76 M!! or (soon 777). LOL now I wish I could go back!

  


User currently offlinebaw716 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2028 posts, RR: 27
Reply 15, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 6648 times:

The return on investment for introducing a First Class product would not be sufficient to justify the cost (and it would be HUGE) to implement this. In order for it to be a consistent product, it would have to be a fleet type product, so only dedicated aircraft would have this configuration and that would seriously impact the ability of Delta to massage its very diverse fleet to match its needs. Delta's fleet costs are already high enough.

Delta would be better served to upgrade their entire BE product to a single standard, either the herringbone configuration or the Thompson solution they have now in the 764s (that is a vastly superior product in my view) and upgrade the inflight amenities. If the product is good enough, people will fly J instead of F.

I have always enjoyed DL's BE product; mainly because of the excellent service I've always received from Delta onboard their flights, even as a non-revenue passenger working for an alliance partner. I've been critical of their product of late ONLY because a) it is not consistent across their fleet and b) is not competitive with other J class offerings out there today (with the exception of the 764s...the Thompson solution is a real winner, far better than the existing herringbone configuration on the 777s...again, in my opinion).

baw716



David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15834 posts, RR: 27
Reply 16, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 6615 times:

Quoting baw716 (Reply 15):
a) it is not consistent across their fleet

That isn't going to be changing since they are going to refurbish the 744 fleet with Weber Cirrus seats in business, due in part at least, to criticisms of the herringbone design.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineb707forever From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 459 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5853 times:

I flew JFK-CDG-JFK in DL F. It was OK, nothing really special from what I remember in comparison to AF.

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