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PIA May End US Operations This Summer  
User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 18925 times:

Their JFK sched showing flights ending from 11 March, ORD might go as well plus some European routes, of which Glasgow has been confirmed to end 20 January.

More in here http://www.historyofpia.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=18486&start=30

and this mentions Sydney may be started (ignore the Airbuses operating to US folly) http://geo.tv/1-6-2011/76859.htm

[Edited 2011-01-06 08:17:10]

71 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAT From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1037 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 18707 times:

This would be sad if it happened.
PIA was once a leading airline of the region, but now it seems just about every other carrier is growing and glowing while PIA is on its way to oblivion.


User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 18543 times:

Do PK have traffic rights Manchester-New York?

Quoting AT (Reply 1):
This would be sad if it happened.

its a positive development.


User currently offlinebeeweel15 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1752 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 18533 times:

Quoting AT (Reply 1):
PIA was once a leading airline of the region, but now it seems just about every other carrier is growing and glowing while PIA is on its way to oblivion.

Emirates first regional victim so sad. I wonder who will be next from the region


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3741 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 18388 times:

Quoting beeweel15 (Reply 3):

Quoting AT (Reply 1):
PIA was once a leading airline of the region, but now it seems just about every other carrier is growing and glowing while PIA is on its way to oblivion.

Emirates first regional victim so sad. I wonder who will be next from the region


Don't forget the other Gulf superairlines, Ethiad Airways and Qatar Airways. With all three serving NYC, plus EK at IAH and EY at ORD, I wonder how much passengers PIA lost to the supercarriers with better connection opportunities in more stable Middle Eastern countries.

And sadly, PIA had a bunch of problems for years. Back in the 747 classic days, a teacher that I had prevously that flew many airlines flew PK ORD-MAN, and she thought it was the worst flight ever due to an ill-maintained plane, bad food, and bad service. The 777ER/LRs couldn't come soon enough for PIA, but by then, the damage was done. EK, EY, and QR had won the war.

Service complaints aside, I will miss seeing PIA's 777s at ORD during my ORD connections. Beautiful birds. I liked their 747 Classic livery, too.

[Edited 2011-01-06 09:26:10]


Primary Airport: FWA/Alternate Airport: DTW/Not employed by the FWACAA or their partners
User currently offlinespud757 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2007, 333 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 18269 times:

Quoting 777way (Thread starter):
Their JFK sched showing flights ending from 11 March, ORD might go as well plus some European routes, of which Glasgow has been confirmed to end 20 January.

Any idea ow this will affect their MAN ops? I assume they won't drop MAN but maybe scale back.
What about LBA if they reducing european routes...it's very close to MAN so perhaps they'll pull that route to fill MAN seats


User currently offlineheathrow From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 979 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 18077 times:

What does this mean for their YYZ flight?

User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 17752 times:

PK are going to restart Houston this year according to a news channel., Paris and Milan may be dropped.

Quoting heathrow (Reply 6):
What does this mean for their YYZ flight?

Continues unaffected.

Quoting spud757 (Reply 5):
Any idea ow this will affect their MAN ops? I assume they won't drop MAN but maybe scale back.
What about LBA if they reducing european routes...it's very close to MAN so perhaps they'll pull that route to fill MAN seats

No mention of any changes for England yet, only Scotland affected in UK.

[Edited 2011-01-06 12:52:34]

User currently offlineMHTripple7 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1105 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 17722 times:

According to Amadeus.net, PIA flights to JFK are still operating to at least June 2011....

User currently offlineAT From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1037 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 17657 times:

Someone on this site had once proposed that PIA should focus on a few trunk routes with high passenger demand (e.g., Pakistan to London, New York, Toronto, Dubai, Jeddah, Beijing, Singapore), and fly daily non-stop scheduled service to those cities, dropping all the other cities that they fly to once or twice a week here and there. That way they can focus their attention, beef up frequencies and service, and fill their planes.

I think the non-stop part is key because that is one of the few remaining advantages that the airline has..

Does PK by the way still operate any of its 747-300s or are they all retired? the 200-Combis I'm pretty sure are gone, right?


User currently offlineheathrow From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 979 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 17624 times:

Quoting heathrow (Reply 6):
What does this mean for their YYZ flight?
Quoting 777way (Reply 7):
Continues unaffected.

Glad to hear. This flight always seems to have good loads.


User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 17592 times:

Quoting AT (Reply 9):
Does PK by the way still operate any of its 747-300s or are they all retired? the 200-Combis I'm pretty sure are gone, right?

Five 743 and one 742 (fully converted to passenger from Combi) still flying to Saudi Arabia and three domestic routes, plus two additional ones during Hajj. The 743s also fly in rarely to UK and do UN peacekeeping troop charters at times, they have so far been to Kathmandu, Beirut, Amman, Freetown, Casablanca, Lisbon and Haiti.

Quoting 777way (Reply 7):
Paris and Milan may be dropped.

Sorry only Frankfurt and Amsterdam that may go.

[Edited 2011-01-06 13:35:24]

User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8343 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 16813 times:
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PIA has to fly to JFK via Manchester due to US mandated security concerns. They can't use their 777-200LR nonstop from Pakistan as the US doesn't trust Pakistani security, the reason for the Manchester stop. PIA has probably been flying since 1969 to JFK.

[Edited 2011-01-06 17:55:54]

User currently offlinecloud4000 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 641 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 16778 times:

Quoting heathrow (Reply 10):
Quoting heathrow (Reply 6):
What does this mean for their YYZ flight?
Quoting 777way (Reply 7):
Continues unaffected.

Glad to hear. This flight always seems to have good loads.

The success of YYZ is contingent on sorting out of the Canada-UAE fued. Both EK and EY are limited in adding more flights till then. Good for PIA, if only for the moment.



Boston, USA
User currently offlinethomasphoto60 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3941 posts, RR: 22
Reply 14, posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 16582 times:

Quoting 777way (Reply 7):
PK are going to restart Houston this year according to a news channel.

Yeah right.....   

Even they were silly to try and restart IAH, EK and QR would likely crush PK on the route. But hey, weirder things have happened.

Thomas



"Show me the Braniffs"
User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 15971 times:

The whole deal more clearly explained in this article http://www.khaleejtimes.com/biz/insi...ss_January100.xml&section=business

User currently offlineburj From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 901 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 15187 times:

Quoting 777way (Reply 15):

The whole deal more clearly explained in this article http://www.khaleejtimes.com/biz/insi...iness

Thanks for the link! This is quite an interesting development and given the fact that PIA can NOT fly non-stop to the US anyways....an alliance with TK to code-share/hub out of IST is a smart move!

(Dare we dream of PIA someday entering *A?!)

In the past when looking for flights between NYC and Pakistan Turkish had come in as the best deal but entailed 7 hour layovers in IST....assuming they work the schedule out so a NYC-IST-LHE/ISB/KHI trip has reasonable timing... This really could be a win-win for TK/PIA!


User currently offlineyegbey01 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1725 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 15120 times:

Here's an example why Canada is absolutely right when it comes to to dealing with the UAE's arrogance!!!

Had EK and EY been allowed to expand flights into YYZ, PIA would have dropped their service by now.


User currently offlinevivekman2006 From India, joined May 2006, 540 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 15030 times:

Quoting burj (Reply 16):
(Dare we dream of PIA someday entering *A?!)

I am sure that if they are ever invited to *A, they will join before AI does! 


User currently offlinetharanga From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1865 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 14963 times:

Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 17):

Had EK and EY been allowed to expand flights into YYZ, PIA would have dropped their service by now.

so what? It's suddenly the Canadian government's job to insulate PIA from competition?

Quoting 777way (Reply 15):
The whole deal more clearly explained in this article

What does TK get out of this arrangement, that it couldn't get by trying to connect Pakistan to Europe/USA via IST on its own?


User currently offlineFlyLonghaul From Australia, joined Feb 2010, 146 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 14800 times:

SYD as a new route...really? Is there anything to suggest this might be true, or is it just another case of poor reporting?


Flying for Pleasure
User currently offlineKFlyer From Sri Lanka, joined Mar 2007, 1226 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 14236 times:

So will this deal also include revenue sharing ? But didn't TK start ops to DAC ? Why should they codeshare with PK to CMB and DAC then ?


The opinions above are solely my own and do not express those of my employers or clients.
User currently offlineburj From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 901 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 14206 times:

Quoting tharanga (Reply 19):
What does TK get out of this arrangement, that it couldn't get by trying to connect Pakistan to Europe/USA via IST on its own?

According to the article linked to in reply #15...

"He said the deal is a win-win situation for both the airlines as PIA will take the Turkish Airlines passengers bound for the destinations in East.

“Karachi will be Turkish Airlines hub and we will accommodate their passengers for Colombo, Dhaka and other destinations in the East,” Capt Haroon said."


It would be interesting to compare PK and TK route maps/structure to see if PIA really does offer eastern destinations that TK does not...


User currently onlineCrimsonNL From Netherlands, joined Dec 2007, 1862 posts, RR: 42
Reply 23, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 12866 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CHAT OPERATOR

Quoting 777way (Reply 11):
Sorry only Frankfurt and Amsterdam that may go.

Do you think these two destinations will be dropped? It would make me sad to see them drop AMS..

Martijn



Nothing's worse then flying the same registration twice, except flying it 4 times..
User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 11673 times:

^ Thats what PK spokesman said in a TV interview in Urdu language.

Quoting burj (Reply 23):
It would be interesting to compare PK and TK route maps/structure to see if PIA really does offer eastern destinations that TK does not...

The only difference so far is Kathmandu and Colombo all the rest DEL, BOM, DAC, BKK, KUL, PEK, HKG, NRT and more are served by TK so it dosent make sense for them to hub at KHI.

Quoting FlyLonghaul (Reply 20):
SYD as a new route...really? Is there anything to suggest this might be true, or is it just another case of poor reporting?

Could be true another newspaper has reported the same today.

I noticed over the past 6 months almost a dozen people under the Pakistan flag joined A.net, not a single one has posted here in this discussion or rarely participate in Pakistan aviation related topics with their sometimes proffessional input, they only seem to pop in when questions regarding fasting in Ramzan for muslim airlines crews / passengers are concerned with posts bordering on preaching.

[Edited 2011-01-07 07:47:46]

25 cloud4000 : This PK-TK tie-up in IST/KHI is not a done deal. The article talks about a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU), which is like a letter of intent, but in
26 777way : ^ Yes it needs govt approval from both Pak and Turk sides, if done it will be implemented from March. PIA is quite popular with family oriented, home
27 KFlyer : 777way, at least you and Behramjee post. TK was considering launching CMB too. In no way, does this provide any special advantage to TK. But there cou
28 sebring : I think it's more complex than that. Canada and Pakistan have what I would call a primative bilateral agreement, in that it lacks many of the aspects
29 777way : Wish that would happen as well.
30 ferengi80 : Have the safety restrictions been lifted on these, then? I know they were banned from the UK for a while due to problems with wheel grease, in that m
31 aznmadsci : Well this just might be a bit more feasible if TK now has intentions to start IST-IAH in which they connect to PK headed to ISB, KHI and points east.
32 777way : Wasnt that grease issue for 777s? the 743s have flown to UK specifically to gain some kind of EU clearence certificate, but the latest is all PIA air
33 Boeing747_600 : What?! I though PK does currently operate LHE-JFK non-stop.
34 777way : ^ They do but its as JFK-LHE.
35 burj : I'll add (unless this has changed recently) PIA has a more generous luggage allowance than the Gulf carriers, this is a BIG deal for Pakistanis! I've
36 777way : PIA also served Maldives, Urumqi, Yangon, Singapore, Jakarta, Manila, Guangzhou, Shanghai some of these could be resumed to balance things with TK, as
37 Boeing747_600 : so is the outbound leg LHE-MAN-JFK?
38 Post contains links 777way : ^ Yes, PK do not have rights to fly nonstop to the US Latest update suggests Paris, Barcelona and Milan to go as well besides AMS and FRA, highlights
39 aznmadsci : So will PK be using their own planes or will these be flown on TK planes? Does PK have any planes that could do IST-IAH that are allowed to do the ro
40 thomasphoto60 : Well, maybe there is something to this, I would certainly welcome their return to ol' H-Town. I wonder if this would put a kibosh on any potential st
41 drerx7 : This is interesting. The KHI-IST-IAH run should be with TK equipment to take advantage of the Star Alliance connection vs. the solely ethnic connectio
42 burj : PIA has the 777-200LR (they were the launch customer) which can easily do IST-IAH...in fact I believe the original plan to use them for Pakistan-IAH
43 GlobalCabotage : If true, I understand why ORD will be gone. EY has been filling low yielding seats to India and Pakistan via AUH (no wonder they are looking at the 77
44 KHI747 : Hi AT ! Well i dont know if you were refering to me there but yes i too have long been stating exactly that on A.net over the years,much to the disma
45 cslusarc : I'm sure that was me. Today, I don't understand why PK prefers to operate like a "holiday airline" model like TS rather than the "scheduled network c
46 777way : Employee Unions and PALPA objections may fail this agreement from taking off.
47 cloud4000 : There is very little demand from business passengers, who often pay a higher premium, for flights to anywhere in Pakistan. This is a reflection of Pa
48 cloud4000 : These unions are very powerful politically. They do have the ear of the government, and have been successful in overturning decisions made by managem
49 Post contains links oly720man : According to this http://www.abtn.co.uk/news/1015191-p...te-and-signs-deal-turkish-airlines PIA has been forced into this agreement because it has se
50 Post contains images LAXintl : Hate to say it, however PIA needs to be put out from it misery. The carrier has been on a downward path since the 1980s. A proposed commercial venture
51 BlueShamu330s : Word was passed on to me today that Leeds (LBA/EGNM) will continue only as long as the A310s continue to operate. Thereafter, Uk ops will be consolida
52 AT : Lax Intl: Tough words, but well said. couldn't agree you with more. I was wondering: with all the discussion currently going on in other threads relat
53 cloud4000 : According to PK's schedule, they fly ISB-LBA only one time a week! How is this flight even close to making money? And PK's flights to China, a major
54 cloud4000 : First of all, Canada is acting stupidly on this issue. Who are they trying to protect? Air Canada or the passengers? Pakistan would never do such a t
55 KHI747 : Hi there! Indeed it has been a while.Believe it or not i still have the diverted traffic pictures of BA and GF planes you took in KHI and mailed to m
56 777way : A visionless carrier and its staff want it to remain so, as long they get their paycheck have confirmed employment and can manage to get relatives in
57 Post contains images Faddypainter : Does this mean that PK will also end BHX ops? Slightly confused as you only mention LBA closing, leaving just MAN and LHR. [Edited 2011-01-10 14:00:5
58 cloud4000 : Compared to the puzzling, one time a week ISB-LBA route, PK flies ISB-BHX four times a week and on a 777. Looks like a keeper to me. I don't understa
59 BlueShamu330s : No mention of BHX today. Talk was about the longevity of the A310 and the routes they serve. Leeds, I was told, will not be receiving the 777s and th
60 Faddypainter : I think this is due to the majority of pax on BHX/LBA-ISB are O&D and the majority of the Pakistani communities in the respective cities originat
61 cloud4000 : Okay, this is a good example of a one-off PK can exploit. Personally, PK should drop LBA and expand ISB-BHX to five times a week. Leeds and Birmingha
62 777way : True, also it seems most Pakistani's living abroad are from Punjab therefore LHE features in as well, KHI is now Emirates territory.
63 tharanga : After reading all of the good discussion here, I still don't understand what TK really has to gain from any cooperation here. It may make sense for PI
64 AT : For all its woes and problems, one thing PIA does do a (relatively) good job on is its domestic network. it flies to a number of smaller cities, parti
65 KFlyer : There's a better solution. Privatize PK and sell it to EK ( though they've said they won't buy any other airline after UL ). Tim Clark and the team co
66 LAXintl : I suppose a few hundred additional daily passengers on its European and US network. That has to provide some financial incentive and value.
67 ferengi80 : No, it was certainly the 743, as PIA used to use the 743 on a regular basis in the MAN, then following the fires they were only allowed to use 777s.
68 AT : the emirates part may be far fetched, but why not privatize it? How have the private airlines being doing in Pakistan?
69 777way : ^ Air Blue recently added a brand new A320 and two ex-Hamburg airlines A319s, Shaheen became first private Pak airline to start Saudi flights to Damma
70 behramjee : The break up of the Pakistani immigrant community in the West is as follows: UK - 60% Kashmiri (ISB gateway) + 30% Punjabi (LHE) + 8% Sindhi (KHI) Eu
71 cloud4000 : One thing I really like about PK is their web site. You can get a list of flights by origin or destination. Wish all airlines had this feature. Nevert
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