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AA's Apparent Damage Control?  
User currently offlinemirrodie From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 7443 posts, RR: 62
Posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 11046 times:
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As a valued AAdvantage member, we want to clarify what you may be reading in the press. As a result of a commercial dispute, over the past several weeks there have been changes to how we sell our tickets. American Airlines last month removed its fares and schedules from Orbitz.com, and effective January 1 Expedia.com stopped offering American Airlines fares on its website. Additionally Sabre, a company that distributes airline fares and schedules, made it more difficult for travel agents to find and select American’s flights by moving our fares lower in the display order than they normally would be listed.

While there is much misinformation circulating on these matters, rest assured that tickets for travel on American Airlines and American Eagle — including all international and domestic classes of service — are widely available through a number of outlets, including American’s own website, AA.com, which features our Lowest Fare Guarantee. Tickets, fares and schedules are also available through American’s reservations agents, thousands of travel agencies in locations worldwide, other online travel agencies such as Priceline.com, and travel search engines such as Kayak.com. For more information, please visit AA.com.

We are committed to working with all distribution channels, including traditional travel agencies, online travel agencies and global distribution systems. We will keep you informed of important updates on these developments.

Thank you for giving us the opportunity to address this matter. We appreciate your business very much and look forward to welcoming you aboard soon.

Sincerely,


OK, so Aa decides to remove its fares from Orbitz. Expedia and Sabre responded.

Perhaps my perception is wrong but, by removing those fares, didn't AA knock out some competition? If so, what's the point of even having a lowest fare guarantee?


Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15719 posts, RR: 26
Reply 1, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 11015 times:

It is a good idea to keep frequent fliers in the know regarding this, but realistically, those aren't the passengers they would potentially lose over this.


Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineJAAlbert From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1553 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 10912 times:

Didn't AA once own Sabre??

User currently offline797 From Venezuela, joined Aug 2005, 1891 posts, RR: 27
Reply 3, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 10808 times:

Interesting.

I wonder how their sales are going to be affected by this decision.

Down here in Venezuela most of the people purchase AA tickets through travel agencies, most using SABRE... A travel agent finds with difficulty, and is often reluctant to, purchasing tickets through the airline's website.

I really couldn't care less. I just hope it's the right choice for Double-A!

797



Flying isn't dangerous. Crashing is what's dangerous!
User currently offlineukoverlander From United Kingdom, joined May 2010, 363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 10739 times:

I'm really not seeing the upsaide for AA here. Frequent Flyers will get it but they probably shop at AA.com anyway but there are millions of accasional travellers who are not airline savvy. They go to Orbtz, Expedia, etc and simply follow their noses if they don't see AA they won't think to look on AA.com.

Interestingly AA code shares such as those on Alaskan Airlines still show up on Expedia so for example somebody wanting to fly SFO-Miami (where AA provide the only direct flight between the two cities) would be offered the AA flight as and Alaska code share. Good news because otherwise a great many people i imagine would end up buying connecting flights on other airlines.


User currently offlineETinCaribe From Ethiopia, joined Dec 2009, 722 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 10537 times:

It's good to inform valued customers, no problems there.

I also believe this is not a good move by AA, but we will see what happens.


User currently offlinespacecadet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3608 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 10368 times:

And so begins the backpedaling.

There's no reason for an email like this unless AA knows it's losing the propaganda war, which in the case of wooing paying customers also means losing sales. A company with happy customers doesn't need to send out emails to "clarify" their actions. (Though if you parse carefully, they don't actually clarify anything. Nowhere do they say why this is all happening, or when and how it might end.)

My guess is that ticket purchases have already dropped a noticeable amount. And I'll bet there's an internal tug of war going on inside AA about this, with those making the decisions (for now) taking a hard line, and others at the company arguing that they're committing market suicide. My guess is that whoever decided this email needed to be written is in the latter camp. And I'd be surprised if that side doesn't win out in the end.



I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
User currently offlineflyby519 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 1126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 10286 times:

They better buy a chunk of airtime for a Superbowl commercial, or some sort of increased advertising campaign.


These postings or comments are not a company-sponsored source of communication.
User currently offlineRising From United States of America, joined May 2010, 269 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 10134 times:

According to AMR, as of December 29th, which is the latest figures available and a week after the dispute started, AA continued to see an increase in ticket sales compared to last year. There has been no negative actual booking impact; sales are up. Sales have simply moved to other channels.

http://aa.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=3109

That said, I would not be surprised one bit to see some type of a agreement come forward soon. It is to everyone's benefit.



If it doesn't make sense, it's because it's not true.
User currently offlineadamblang From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 111 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 10079 times:

Quoting ukoverlander (Reply 4):
I'm really not seeing the upsaide for AA here.

They increase the margin on the tickets they do sell since they're not spending so much on commissions to Expedia, Orbitz, and Sabre. They will be running a more profitable operation if they make up the sales through other channels or reduce capacity to compensate for lost bookings. Or they can compete better on price by passing the $12 or so commission on to customers.



The views and opinions expressed here are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer or its partners.
User currently onlinesw733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6299 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 10030 times:

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 6):

There's no reason for an email like this unless AA knows it's losing the propaganda war

I disagree completely. They are trying to get their side out to their frequent travelers, many of whom are already going to side with AA. They are just making sure that they keep siding with AA...


User currently offlineadxmatt From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 950 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 9938 times:

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 2):
Didn't AA once own Sabre??

Yes, AA Built and created SABRE. It was revolutionary at the time. Sabre created many innovations. AA sold it sometime in the 2000's

United in turn created Apollo , Eastern built System 1, TWA built worldspan.


User currently offlineBennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7460 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 9932 times:

IMO, the issue is not those who plan to fly from A to B by AA.

The issue is those who a, just want the cheapest fare, and if AA are not offered by Expedia etc will take the cheapest fare that they do offer, (i.e. for them Expedia is the brand) or b, do not know that AA flys from A to B.

By dropping Expedia etc, AA is going to need to spend more on their marketing budget.


User currently offlinemacsog6 From Singapore, joined Jan 2010, 525 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 9879 times:
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Quoting Rising (Reply 8):
There has been no negative actual booking impact; sales are up. Sales have simply moved to other channels.

Just like WN does. These web based travel agencies like Orbitz and such are, IMHO, the losers here and in five years will be gone unless they come up with a new business model.



Sixty Plus Years of Flying! "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." - Saint Ex
User currently offlineirelayer From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 1073 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 9715 times:

Gonna throw an article in here that I read, and found interesting:

http://blog.flightcaster.com/america...rlines-is-right-time-to-move-trave

-IR


User currently offlinedeltaflyertoo From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 1642 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 9556 times:

Just imagine all those hundreds of thousands of people who fly out of ORD only 2 or 3x a year, usually on pleasure, who wouldn't know if they were on a 727 from 777 that are on Expedia this week saying, "Oh I guess AA doesn't go nonstop anymore to _____, will have to go on UA" and then telling like 5 other friends that "Yeah AA doesn't fly nonstop to Vegas/LGA/MIA, etc anymore, only UAL" Even worse w/ VX coming into DFW, same affect down there (Oh I guess is Virgin now to SFO nonstop, no AA *shrugs* , right click, book.

Geez, can't believe AA's not getting this.


User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7605 posts, RR: 32
Reply 16, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 9473 times:

Quoting macsog6 (Reply 13):
These web based travel agencies like Orbitz and such are, IMHO, the losers here and in five years will be gone unless they come up with a new business model.

The one interesting thing that I found was in the Dallas Morning News today.

50% of AA's ticket revenue comes from sales through Sabre.

That is a lot of ground to make up.


User currently offlineUAL747DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2392 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 9298 times:

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 6):
And so begins the backpedaling.

There's no reason for an email like this unless AA knows it's losing the propaganda war, which in the case of wooing paying customers also means losing sales

That is not true at all. There are major changes to the way customers can buy tickets for travel on AA and they are telling their customers about them, any company would do the same thing. It would be extremely irresponsible not to.

Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 12):
The issue is those who a, just want the cheapest fare, and if AA are not offered by Expedia etc will take the cheapest fare that they do offer, (i.e. for them Expedia is the brand)

These are the customers who fly just a few times a year at the very most and buy only the cheapest fares available. These passengers are not worth much to an airline like AA and it will not be a big deal to lose them. If AA could just drop that entire lower end of the market and move things around to serve its FF's and the upper end of the market they would be doing really well....

Quoting deltaflyertoo (Reply 15):

Just imagine all those hundreds of thousands of people who fly out of ORD only 2 or 3x a year, usually on pleasure, who wouldn't know if they were on a 727 from 777 that are on Expedia this week saying, "Oh I guess AA doesn't go nonstop anymore to _____, will have to go on UA" and then telling like 5 other friends that "Yeah AA doesn't fly nonstop to Vegas/LGA/MIA, etc anymore, only UAL" Even worse w/ VX coming into DFW, same affect down there (Oh I guess is Virgin now to SFO nonstop, no AA *shrugs* , right click, book.

Geez, can't believe AA's not getting this.

Of course AA gets it. AA obviously believes that they can make up for losing these bottom feeding passengers by not paying commissions to these vendors. Airlines have been eliminating the "middle man" for many years now and this is no different. When airlines stopped paying the travel agents huge fees to sell their product everyone said the same things that are being talked about right now, oh no without the travel agents the airlines will go out of business! Well the airlines proved that they didn't need the travel agents and Southwest proves everyday that they don't need Expedia and the other websites to stay alive. I think American will be fine and really the most important people involved in this fight at this point is not American or the websites, it's United, Delta, and maybe US Airways. If any of these airlines decide that AA is doing the right thing and that they don't want to pay the commissions anymore either these ticketing websites are screwed. They will have no other choice, if they want to stay in business, other than to give into the demands of the airlines. Remember these websites don't produce anything and they have no product to sell, without cooperation from the airlines they are nothing.



/// UNITED AIRLINES
User currently offlineFlyAAS80 From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 93 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 9136 times:

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 6):
My guess is that ticket purchases have already dropped a noticeable amount. And I'll bet there's an internal tug of war going on inside AA about this, with those making the decisions (for now) taking a hard line, and others at the company arguing that they're committing market suicide.


I'd say we relinquish the unrelenting speculation on all these threads until we have a true bearing (actual numbers) of what the impact on ticket sales are and resulting loss of revenue IF it does occur. All of your guessing and betting, plus $4.75 wil get you a cup coffee at Starbucks. Have we ever heard about the story of the little boy that cried wolf?

I can not tell you how I'm frankly sick and tired of all this fatalistic talk about the demise of AA due to no longer posting their fares on a "few" travel sites. I really think all the nay-sayers should look at a little airline called Southwest that has been known to make a profit for a few quarters. The fact is that AA does have a robust FF base and many corporate contracts that truly do make the bread and butter of their operations.

Quoting deltaflyertoo (Reply 15):
Just imagine all those hundreds of thousands of people who fly out of ORD only 2 or 3x a year


This is not the client base that AA is concerned about. My company exclusively has booked with AA for the past ten years, I can tell you this was never done on Expedia then and will not lose our business now because of it. I doubt we're the only ones either.

Bloomberg had a great interview with a airline marketing consultant Wednesday morning that suggested this could be the beginning of the end for the likes of Expedia and such if other airlines followed suit when their contracts where up for renewal. Only time will tell the true benefactor of this decision.



The only way to fly is by the seat of your pants...
User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7605 posts, RR: 32
Reply 19, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 9087 times:

Quoting FlyAAS80 (Reply 18):
My company exclusively has booked with AA for the past ten years, I can tell you this was never done on Expedia then and will not lose our business now because of it. I doubt we're the only ones either.

The company I used to work for had a similar deal - but it was done through a contract travel service company - along with reservations at company required hotels, company required rental cars. Those were through the Sabre system - not direct with AA.

Does your company work through a travel services company/ agency? Then those AA tickets will cut off in August when Sabre drops AA.

The travel services company will be able to book you through AA.com - but your company will have to pay the service fees up front.

That could be AAs plan - to stop paying those service fees to travel agencies/ companies - and make the customer pay them rather than having them come out of ticket revenue.


User currently offlineFlyAAS80 From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 93 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 8907 times:

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 19):
Does your company work through a travel services company/ agency? Then those AA tickets will cut off in August when Sabre drops AA.



We've always purchased out tickets in-house directly through AA or their website. I see your point in AA trying to save a dime on their end. Though this may be blissful indiscretion, I hope to see those savings passed-on to the costumers!   



The only way to fly is by the seat of your pants...
User currently offline7673mech From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 710 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 8013 times:
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It's all fun and games until the other major airlines follow suite.
You can't tell me that Delta, United/CO and US aren't watching to see what happens.

An airline actually made a decision that will benefit it and many of you crucify it.
The truth is AA is making the right decision but everyone wants to put them down.

Oh and in other news - they don't have AVOD.

 


User currently offlineeastalt From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 29 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 7587 times:

As an industry insider many of us are watching this play out between AA and GDS. American Airlines spends close to a Billion dollars a year to display its content on these sites with no real return to cover the cost. I fully support AAs move to take a stand to control thier cost. Global Distribution Companies are no longer a nessesity to any airline to the degree they were 30 years ago. Its time someone forced them to change or they should die and allow the more innovative companies such as Kayak and Priceline to gain that maket share.

As for the consumner, there will be more benifits, however I cannot see that being lower ticket prices. I do see more innovation with the airlines websites. Customers will be able to do more that book a reservation or check in for a flight.

Finally, the people on here complaining about this move by AA have no clue. The only reason the GDS made this public was because they know people hate airlines and to scare the public into thinking they are victims. The truth is the airlines are the true victims.


User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4386 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 7329 times:

Quoting ukoverlander (Reply 4):
Interestingly AA code shares such as those on Alaskan Airlines still show up on Expedia so for example somebody wanting to fly SFO-Miami (where AA provide the only direct flight between the two cities) would be offered the AA flight as and Alaska code share. Good news because otherwise a great many people i imagine would end up buying connecting flights on other airlines.

Not true here in Europe, as far as I know BA and AA code share from MIA to Latam, but these are off all web sites but BA.com itself here.


User currently offlineJAAlbert From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1553 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 7049 times:

I agree that AA is onto something here. AA has a history of innovating the travel industry. But I don't understand the supposed benefits AA's model will bring to the consumer - what sorts of things will we be able to do with the new system that we can't do with current GDS system? Despite what AA is saying, I suspect this is more about the airline controling its costs than bringing consumers additional flexibility. I doubt we'll be seeing the $12 commission passed down to us through lower fares.

25 ChrisNH : Now, you don't really think that last choice is even remotely possible, do you?
26 blueflyer : You don't seem to realize that outsourced corporate travel depts do use GDS, with Sabre being the most popular, Incidentally, Sabre does account for
27 rangercarp : Many posters have brought this up, but it is way off base. Those who are looking for the cheapest fare, do not simply go to Expedia and buy the best
28 offloaded : The issue is cost, not the existance of GDSs. GDSs are a tool. Airlines pay for content to be loaded. AA.com will never be a substitute, unless AA wan
29 vgnatl747 : What has failed to be mentioned here is the loss of potential business traveler revenue simply by being dropped by Expedia. My previous employer as an
30 TOMMY767 : Not with this managment team!
31 Post contains links ReguPilot : Chicago Tribune now says that Delta and United have joined AA. However, I don't see anything on their websites. Excerpt:
32 kalvado : I agree, GDS would either transform or loose - but that doesn't mean AA would win. Even with .com only sales there still would be additional expense
33 CaboChris : Goodbye Obitz, travelocity and expedia et all... the airlines want control of this business, and why not? What business would want a 3rd party vendor
34 Post contains images FlyAAS80 : I do understand the implications of losing ticket sales via Sabre, though do you also believe that these corporate clients with a large mileage base
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