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OAG Changes 1/14/2011: AA/CO/DL/UA (DEN-LHR Gone)  
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7192 posts, RR: 13
Posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 22741 times:

This compares what is for sale THIS WEEK for the stated period versus what was for sale LAST WEEK...It does NOT compare to last year or now.

How to read:
Flights are daily except as noted "/wk" which means per week.
ABE-MDT 2>10/WK means a reduction from 2 daily flights to 10 flights per week which is about 1.5 flights
ABE-MDT 3>2 APR ONLY means a reduction in one roundtrip from 3 to 2 for April only
ABE-MDT 3.8>2.7 APR-JUN This is the raw format of the data which sometimes I'm too lazy to retype. It means that over a month they were averaging a little less than 4 trips per day and now it's a little less than 3 per day. So, basically they cancelled 8 flights per week or so. Airlines are doing A LOT of non-daily ops now, so these fractions are pervasive.
ABE-MDT 4>6 MAY- means an increase from 4 to 6 roundtrips starting in May and continuing
ABE-MDT 4>6 MAY-JUN, 5>6 JUL means the change is only for the stated period May to June and then a different change for July in the same route


4C
JFK-BOG 1>0 FEB-

9K
AUG-BOS 0>4 JUL-
Service had been dropped, but now continues without a gap.

AA
DFW-CYS 2>1 APR-
MIA-LRM 0>1 APR-JUN

It's odd that they left these selling 2x daily until now when it's pretty clear (now) they intended them to be seasonal flights.
MIA-GSO 2>1 APR-
MIA-MEM 2>1 APR-
MIA-RIC 2>1 APR-
MIA-SDF 2>1 APR-
MIA-TLH 2>1 APR-
MIA-TYS 2>1 APR-

SJU-BGI 4/WK>3/WK APR-
SJU-EIS 6>4 APR-
SJU-SKB 1>3/WK APR-
SJU-SLU 1>4/WK APR-
SJU-STT 5>2 APR-
SJU-STX 5>3 APR-

AC
LAX-YYZ 4>5 MAY-

AM
JFK-MEX 4>3 APR-

AS
LGB-SEA 2>3 JUN-

CO
CO's schedule change seemed odd. There are a lot of service cuts. It may be that there will be balancing UA adds, but they are out of sync. Who knows... It may also be that they added a new EQP type that OAG doesn't recognize.
BFL-IAH 2>0 APR- (Svc never starts)

CLE-ATL 4>3 FEB-APR
CLE-BOS 4>2 FEB-APR
CLE-DCA 5>4 FEB-MAR
CLE-DFW 3>1 MAR-MAY
CLE-LAX 2>3 APR ONLY
CLE-LGA 8>7 MAR-MAY
CLE-MCI 4>3 FEB ONLY
CLE-MHT 4>3 MAY-JUN
CLE-SFO 1>2 APR ONLY

EWR-OSL 2>1 MAY-
EWR-YYT 1>0 MAR-

IAH-CMH 5>4 MAR-
IAH-COS 5>3 MAR-
IAH-DTW 5>4 MAR-
IAH-GRR 2>8/WK JUN-
IAH-LCH 6>7 MAY-
IAH-MKE 5>4 FEB-
IAH-MSP 5>3 MAR-
IAH-PBC 1>0 MAR-
IAH-PHX 6>5 FEB-
IAH-PIT 5>3 FEB-
IAH-RDU 5>4 MAR-
IAH-SLP 1>0 APR-
IAH-TUS 5>3 FEB-
IAH-VSA 1>0 APR-JUL
IAH-YUL 1>0 MAY-

DL
ATL-ABE 3>2 APR-JUN
ATL-AGS 9>10 APR-
ATL-AVL 9>10 JUN-
ATL-SGF 4>3 MAY-
ATL-TLH 11>10 MAY-
BOS-ORF 0>2 APR- (???, why the sudden interest in BOS?)
CVG-SDF 4>3 APR-
CVG-TYS 2>0 APR- (Another one bites the dust)
DCA-BOS 8>7 APR-
DTW-ALB 5>6 JUN-
DTW-MCO 7>6 JUN-
DTW-MQT 2>3 JUN-
DTW-TYS 3>4 JUN-
HNL-NGO 0>1 JUL-
JFK-ANU 1/WK>3/WK JUN-
LAX-SMF 0>4 APR-
MEM-BTR 2>3 APR-
MEM-SFO 5/WK>0 APR-JUN
MEM-TPA 1>2 JUN-
MSP-ALB 2>1 MAY-
MSP-MSO 2>1 MAY-JUN
MSP-RAP 7>6 APR-
RDU-ALB 0>1 APR- (Corporate deal?)
RDU-PVD 0>1 APR-
SLC-GJT 3>2 APR-JUN

FL
ATL-LGA 7>9 APR- (Slots?)
CMH-MCO 1>2 MAR-MAY
JAX-BWI 2>0 MAR-MAY (WN ROUTE)
MCO-SJU 2>3 MAR-MAY
MKE-BWI 2>0 MAR-MAY (WN ROUTE)
MKE-RSW 2>3 MAR-MAY

LI
SJU-ANU 1>11/WK FEB-
SJU-EIS 4/WK>0 FEB-
SJU-SLU 1>0 FEB-
SJU-SXM 0>1 FEB-

LW
ABQ-CVN 0>3 MAY-

SY
DCA-LAN 0>1 APR-
MSP-LAN 0>1 APR-

UA
***DEN-LHR 1>0 APR- No Resumption
IAD-LHR 3>4 APR-
DEN-OGG 1/WK>1 JUN-
HNL-LAX 3>5 JUN-
SFO-LIH 1>2 JUN-

[Edited 2011-01-11 07:53:58]

164 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDeltaFFinDFW From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1440 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 22738 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
CLE-DFW 3>1 MAR-MAY

This is strange. Could it be that UA will put a 70 seat RJ on it to compete with AAs MD-80s?


User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6608 posts, RR: 24
Reply 2, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 22694 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
MIA-TLH 2>1 APR-

I'm kind of surprised by this one. This route was targeted at shuttling people between South Florida and the state capitol. But 1x daily frequency is pretty poor. Could this be an error?

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
***DEN-LHR 1>0 APR- No Resumption

UA hub at DEN seems to be in greater trouble each day.


User currently offlinefun2fly From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1045 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 22627 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
CLE-ATL 4>3 FEB-APR
CLE-BOS 4>2 FEB-APR
CLE-DCA 5>4 FEB-MAR
CLE-DFW 3>1 MAR-MAY
CLE-LAX 2>3 APR ONLY
CLE-LGA 8>7 MAR-MAY
CLE-MCI 4>3 FEB ONLY
CLE-MHT 4>3 MAY-JUN
CLE-SFO 1>2 APR ONLY

I know that UA CR7's are supposed to take some of the lift for CO on CLE>BOS, LGA, ATL routes. For example, on UA.com it shows 1 CLE BOS on CR7 and on CO.com is show 3x daily on CO metal, but not the UA CR7 (legal issue). Same gaps show on the ATL route. As you suggest something is out of sync. Would be good if the CR7's end up on all of these routes.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
HNL-LAX 3>5 JUN-

Expect CO to cancel its 2x daily HNL>LAX flights soon.


User currently offlineMiAAmi From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 590 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 22587 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
AC
LAX-MIA 4>5 MAY-

You may want to check this again because AC does not fly between LAX and MIA.


User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4282 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 22413 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
EWR-YYT 1>0 MAR-

Looks like a 'snowbird express' flight utilizing warm-climate connections at EWR.

Anyone know if it will return next Fall?


User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7192 posts, RR: 13
Reply 6, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 22397 times:

Quoting fun2fly (Reply 3):
Same gaps show on the ATL route. As you suggest something is out of sync.
Quoting DeltaFFinDFW (Reply 1):
This is strange. Could it be that UA will put a 70 seat RJ on it to compete with AAs MD-80s?

I don't know what that is, but I bet they had a rushed schedule change thanks to the ruling on UA RJs and everything got jumbled.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 2):
I'm kind of surprised by this one. This route was targeted at shuttling people between South Florida and the state capitol. But 1x daily frequency is pretty poor. Could this be an error?

I hadn't focused on the fact it was the sole short-haul in that list. It *could* be an error, but it's probably not given that they did a bunch of 2>1 changes at the same time.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 2):
UA hub at DEN seems to be in greater trouble each day.

My thoughts exactly. I'm beginning to think the hub in DEN could actually close. I think it is dumb strategically and akin to US Airways running from WN 15 years ago, but that may be what is happening.

Quoting MiAAmi (Reply 4):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
AC
LAX-MIA 4>5 MAY-
You may want to check this again because AC does not fly between LAX and MIA.

For the first time ever, it actually let me edit and fix that!!! Thanks a.net gods. So, it was obviously YYZ.


User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4282 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 22361 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting MiAAmi (Reply 4):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
AC
LAX-MIA 4>5 MAY-

You may want to check this again because AC does not fly between LAX and MIA.

Correct. This is an AA route -- not an AC route.


User currently offlinejoeljack From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 937 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 22348 times:

Seems like to me if UA wants to keep DEN around and really go after the business traveler, they need to offer something that WN and F9 don't. I think it would really help generate more elites in Denver if they kept DEN-LHR year-round and add DEN-NRT and DEN-FRA on UA metal. Even though these 3 routes might lose a little money, I bet the number of elites gained and their loyality on other UA routes vs flying F9 or WN would more than make up for the any possible loss. It would go a long ways with image too in DEN. Very difficult to quantify though.

My guess would be that after 3 years of adding FRA, LHR and NRT, UA would be more than happy with the results. There is risk though, but UA does need to do something, that's for sure!


User currently offlineIndyWA From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 353 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 22141 times:

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 5):
Looks like a 'snowbird express' flight utilizing warm-climate connections at EWR.

Anyone know if it will return next Fall?

Becoming a S5 E70 in March...


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16872 posts, RR: 51
Reply 10, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 22133 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
***DEN-LHR 1>0 APR- No Resumption

Could CO be launching the route, 762 or 764?..



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7192 posts, RR: 13
Reply 11, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 22109 times:

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 5):
Looks like a 'snowbird express' flight utilizing warm-climate connections at EWR.
Anyone know if it will return next Fall?

I wouldn't put a lot of credence into the CO schedule change as noted. Does anybody know if BFL is really dead? That was one of the routes announced shortly after the merger wasn't it?

Quoting joeljack (Reply 8):
I think it would really help generate more elites in Denver if they kept DEN-LHR year-round and add DEN-NRT and DEN-FRA on UA metal.

You make a great point, and that's why I wonder about the future of the DEN hub. On one hand they are saying they need more high yield int'l flow in the UA network post-merger and then they go and cut a prime route like that. It makes you wonder what the plan really is for DEN.


User currently offlineSATexan From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 224 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 21990 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
IAH-SLP 1>0 APR-

I am surprised to see this one go...


User currently offline757ops From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 318 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 21916 times:

Everytime I tried to protect passengers on the UA LHR-DEN route it was always full so why did they pull it?

User currently offlineTan Flyr From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1909 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 21890 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 11):
I wouldn't put a lot of credence into the CO schedule change as noted. Does anybody know if BFL is really dead? That was one of the routes announced shortly after the merger wasn't it?

It is NOT on CO's web site, but is listed over on UA's ( United Express) and is bookable I believe.


User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3076 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 21888 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
AS
LGB-SEA 2>3 JUN-

Thanks for the good work. Actually, it looks like they are going to 4 daily flights. I looked at a random date in August and it's 2>4.

Of course, these flights are no QX not AS. They are all still CR7s.


User currently offlinedrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5192 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 21847 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 10):
Could CO be launching the route, 762 or 764?..

That would be my guess...

Quoting SATexan (Reply 12):
I am surprised to see this one go...

I think that alot of the CO cuts have to do with UA balanced adding flights coming like what was mentioned. Especially in the case of BFL...that was going to be a Skywest run IIRC...I think alot of those cuts have to do with Skywest having to operate as United Express instead of CO express flights right now. I think we are just looking at one side of the coin in terms of the CO schedule. Lets wait to see what UA has in the upcoming weeks.



Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlinemanny From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 473 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 21835 times:

DEN always has been treated as the bastid child of UA's hubs.

And the pulling of the summer run of DEN-LHR is just another example.

In the end they will regret ignoring DEN.


User currently offlineAtlwest1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1046 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 21770 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
JAX-BWI 2>0 MAR-MAY (WN ROUTE)

This was always meant to be a seasonal route.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
MKE-BWI 2>0 MAR-MAY (WN ROUTE)

That is rather interesting to say the least. Hub to Hub route gone.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
ATL-LGA 7>9 APR- (Slots?)

Interesting as well probably a response to AA's launching ATL-LGA route.



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co. or Airt
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25406 posts, RR: 49
Reply 19, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 21689 times:

Quoting fun2fly (Reply 3):
Expect CO to cancel its 2x daily HNL>LAX flights soon.

Its would only be shuffling a deck of cards. At the end of the day it really does not matter who ops what.

However with plans afoot for a LAX 737 base to support Hawaii flying ultimately former CO metal should still be active flying to the islands.

Quoting enilria (Reply 11):
then they go and cut a prime route like

DEN-LHR is hardly a prime route. It can't neither be run year round nor generate much premium demand.

Quoting 757ops (Reply 13):
Everytime I tried to protect passengers on the UA LHR-DEN route it was always full so why did they pull it?

Yield, yield, yields! Yes full of Y class pax, however did you see the actual F or C class bookings?

Maybe in the future with a 2-class product it would do better.

Anyhow UA has a finitie number of LHR slots and decided to add back the 4th LHR IAD flight which had been cut a few years back. In addition 1 of the 3 ORD-LHR will get an upgauge to 744 this summer also.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3754 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 21653 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
CVG-SDF 4>3 APR-

Surprised that this one is even still around with CVG-DAY/IND gone. It's one of those useless routes where Cincinnati travelers seeking lower fares than CVG drive to another airport and connect in CVG.

And doesn't SDF advertise in Cincy? I know IND does.



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineAJMIA From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 733 posts, RR: 15
Reply 21, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 21629 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
MIA-LRM 0>1 APR-JUN

MIA - LRM is going from 2x weekly to daily American Eagle.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
It's odd that they left these selling 2x daily until now when it's pretty clear (now) they intended them to be seasonal flights.
MIA-GSO 2>1 APR-
MIA-MEM 2>1 APR-
MIA-RIC 2>1 APR-
MIA-SDF 2>1 APR-
MIA-TLH 2>1 APR-
MIA-TYS 2>1 APR-

They were probably seeing how the advanced bookings would go and when they were weaker than hoped for decided to pull the flights



Lady it's a jet... not a kite.
User currently offlineusairways85 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3404 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 21610 times:

In the grand scheme of things IAH, ORD, and DEN are the UA/CO central US hubs. We know ORD isn't going to lose much international service, if not gain, IAH already has an established international network, and DEN has very little. My guess is that DEN becomes more of the domestic hub while ORD and DEN maintain their domestic networks but also gain international routes (787's in IAH, possible 752 routes from ORD, etc.)

We all know frequency is key to LHR so I can see IAD/EWR maintaining 7-10 dailies between the two and then ORD and IAH with 2-3 each.

EWR, IAD, IAH, ORD, SFO, LAX is not a bad network to LHR.


User currently offlineUAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 21519 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 19):
DEN-LHR is hardly a prime route. It can't neither be run year round nor generate much premium demand.

BA don't seem to think so.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 19):
Yield, yield, yields! Yes full of Y class pax, however did you see the actual F or C class bookings?

Of course you are right and thats what counts but I have flown that flight five times always in F bar once and its always been full. It makes you wonder what the hell UA is doing/planning at DEN

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 19):
Maybe in the future with a 2-class product it would do better.

You might just be right.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 19):
Anyhow UA has a finitie number of LHR slots and decided to add back the 4th LHR IAD flight which had been cut a few years back. In addition 1 of the 3 ORD-LHR will get an upgauge to 744 this summer also.

Now this I do like and thankfs for the heads up on this. I am looking to take the 744 in the summer.
Whats the fourth IAD going to be? I assume the 763 that came off the ORD route.


User currently offlinedrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5192 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 21453 times:

Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 23):
Of course you are right and thats what counts but I have flown that flight five times always in F bar once and its always been full. It makes you wonder what the hell UA is doing/planning at DEN

We need to wait for the story to be told...DEN-LHR seems like the perfect 764/762 2 class Continental run to me. I could see UA starting a 763 or 744 run from IAH to Europe to replace a 2 class bird that could head to DEN.



Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
25 kgaiflyer : Super!!! This is great news.
26 CODC10 : DEN-LHR fits right within the performance envelope of a 767-400ER...
27 OzarkD9S : Hardly. They fought a bitter battle in the 80's against CO and Frontier/PeoplExpress in the 80's. They maneuvered a weakend CO out of DIA in the 90's
28 kgaiflyer : The 24F/149Y 762 might be the key for international expansion out of DEN. Personally, I wish there were more of them. Would it be possible to adopt U
29 Delimit : The LHR flight maybe?
30 CODC10 : US has a narrow 2-2-2 layout in their J cabin, but a nice angled lie-flat seat. The problem with the 762 is that it is still a premium-heavy a/c in t
31 PSU.DTW.SCE : Not surprised to see CVG-TYS go. Surprised it lasted as long as it did. I thought this route really stuck around only to get aircraft from CVG to the
32 Post contains images enilria : It may not really be gone...may just be a result of the CO/UA RJ ruling. It may reappear on the UA code. Well, that could mean either. I look at tota
33 1337Delta764 : Interesting. I know that Great Lakes' EAS contract to serve CVN is coming up for renewal on April 30. Has the contract been awarded to New Mexico Air
34 Delimit : Well, to put it another way, they're pulling down redundant hubs to fund growth, but ya, it's risky.
35 slcdeltarumd11 : If anything i think UA should have made DEN-LHR year round to make the business travelers happy. From my viewing it dosn't seem like United has been d
36 wingsofman72 : In almost all cases of the CO cuts, they are indeed replaced with UAX equipment on 1 or more flights. The YYT flight indeed is doing well and is going
37 surfandsnow : I am sure AV and certainly DL will be happy about this one! Uh oh...doesn't look like this new route is doing too well. Looks like AA got the subsidy
38 MAH4546 : It was always clear. It was announced as such in the press release. It's 3>2. AA flexes between 3 and 2 daily on this flight often, I believe depe
39 LAXintl : Yes the added IAD will be a 763. So 2 777 and 2 763s. Disagree, or believe what you want. Flight has always been touch and go since its inception. It
40 manny : Despite all that DEN is the only UA hub from where there is no nonstop international flight. This flight was scheduled only during summer and not win
41 Post contains images CODC10 : Keep harping on that as though it were gospel...
42 FSDan : Keep in mind that DEN is geographically one of the best connecting airports for customers traveling from the Midwest and the Northeast to Hawaii. Esp
43 Post contains images realsim : This brings the daily Eagle departures from SJU to only 22. Last summer there were 38. However, STT and STX are compensated with an additional daily
44 ERJ170 : Ohhh.. Emmm.. Geee.. I read that as 14 daily 757 flights to STT moving up to 21 daily 757 flights.. I was like Good LAWD that is too much capacity!!!
45 kgaiflyer : I'm told that in March, YYT-EWR will switch from XE to S5 (from COex to UAX and from ERJ145s to E70s) So, even though it *looks* like a loss of servi
46 757ops : Every time I have tried to book it has shown NO Seats available on the whole flight!
47 STT757 : surfandsnow, You need to read the thread a little closer, EWR-YYT is not ending. Nor is IAH-YUL or IAH-PBC. And IAH-BFL will be starting as planned. T
48 OA412 : Interesting news about DEN-LHR. Assuming that it is really cancelled and that CO is not taking over the route with their equipment, I find it interest
49 Post contains images enilria : I'm surprised there has been so little discussion about this RDU stuff. It seems out of left field to me. Does anybody else think DL has way too many
50 ERJ170 : Add the following: RDU-LAX 0>3/wk May-Jun, 0>1 Jun- RDU-MIA 1/wk>0 May- RDU-RSW 1/wk>0 May-
51 deltal1011man : No. DL has to grow, ATL is pretty much full, NYC has slots and DTW is about the right size. MIA/BOS/LAX feed is a must have for SkyTeam.....RDU is a
52 STT757 : No I just checked UAL.com and IAH-BFL is there, checking an April 4th departure and an April 7th return I got the following; Houston Bush (IAH) to Ba
53 CODC10 : Where have they shrunk Newark, outside of reducing frequencies on overlapping routes?
54 ERJ170 : I like to see it as a untapped gem.. or perhaps DL is looking to build feed to eventually take the RTRP funds for the CDG route.. building up.. or pe
55 STT757 : I think DL, like AA and CO, has too much 50 seat regional capacity they are contractualy committed to, it was originally allocated for CVG but DL had
56 Transpac787 : COS is even higher than DEN, at approx 6100 ft airfield elevation. It does have the benefit of long runways, similar to DEN, with their longest being
57 izbtmnhd : I don't get all the excuses on why UA should operate DEN-LHR. Maybe the demand for the LHR flight just simply isn't there. Its not like Denver has som
58 VV701 : I am surprised. The UK CAA report that 230,646 passengers flew between DEN and LHR in 2009. That is an average of 631 passengers every day of the yea
59 Post contains images UnitedTristar : intercontinental yes, international no, DEN has plenty of those moving to UA equipment???? and they are heavily weight restricted from what I hear, w
60 knope2001 : It seems quite likely that this is indeed FL backing down from a WN route even though the takeover is not yet finalized. However because Southwest do
61 Transpac787 : Not really... they'll take nonrevs all the way up to max capacity of 182. I've seen it happen a few times but they can usually take a full boat.
62 slcdeltarumd11 : The reason is OIL. There is major oil money and companies between IAH and BFL. Oxy, Schlumberger, Halliburton, chevron, and texaco all have tons of e
63 TOMMY767 : That was a HUGE mistake on CO's part. I've heard nothing but regrets about how CO gave up the DEN hub in the 1990s. But back then they were also dirt
64 drerx7 : Not to mention the Explus product is perfect for this IAH-BFL run. While I am no fan of CR2s the Explus CR7s are actually a pretty nice ride and shoul
65 STT757 : Actually no it was a prudent move, that and the closure of the South Pacific network. The closure of Denver allowed CO to finally grow EWR and IAH do
66 PITrules : United's website is still showing 5x in Feb; 4 on CO and COEx, and 1 on United/Skywest.
67 slcdeltarumd11 : COS is also a pretty nice climate, the summer weather is beautiful it dosn't get as hot as DEN or SLC in a heatwave. If the flight is later in the da
68 manny : I stand corrected. That was not my point. How does one flight on ORD-LHR compare to the DEN-LHR flight financially. You can pick the best or worst pe
69 enilria : I thought that stuff was announced weeks ago? Am I wrong? Uhh, they aren't growing. They are jsut reshuffling the deck. They go to great lengths to r
70 brandonfs88 : good to see MQT is getting some love again
71 CODC10 : This was a necessary concession that allowed for the entire merger to gain federal approval. Citing it as evidence of some greater strategy to shrink
72 Post contains links STT757 : Could you explain further, because CO Lite ended operations in 1995 and Metrojet began operations in 1998. I don't see how Metrojet could kick CO Lit
73 CODC10 : UA is still the largest carrier in Denver by a considerable margin. Your weekly OAG updates are a wonderful contribution, but your dramatics certainl
74 sampa737 : Thanks for the updates. I look forward to these every time. I'm just a novice but enjoy keeping up with the industry and updates!
75 TOMMY767 : Yet at the same time CO lost it's western US presence and never got it back until they merged with UA last year. IAH is too far south to be considere
76 Post contains images enilria : I decided to calculate the data to see if it was really true that FL is systematically pulling capacity in WN markets since the merger was announced
77 TOMMY767 : However UAEX presence at DEN is considerable. They still have quite a few E70s operating into the hub.
78 enilria : Of course, but wouldn't you agree that for the Denver resident, the WN network is now as good or better than UA's domestically? People in Denver don'
79 drerx7 : You have to include UAEx when considering UA's size in DEN...it makes no sense to debate it otherwise. DEN won't be going anywhere. If need be I have
80 TOMMY767 : WN's presence is good coverage but UA's is a bit more superior as they fly to hawaii and quite a large pallet of regional cities via UAEX. Hopefully
81 keagkid101 : I'm puzzled as to why they are ending a hub-to-hub route before the merger goes through and even more puzzled as to why its only ending from March to
82 OA412 : Agreed on both counts. Some of the editorializing is often off-base, over wrought, or just plain wrong.
83 Post contains links izbtmnhd : Yet UA just pulled out of DEN-LHR. Shutting down CLE dosen't guarantee growth for the other hubs. But if there is any growth, it'll likely add to IAD
84 deltal1011man : um you need to listen again. DL plans to grow ~2-4%
85 STT757 : How did losing it's Western presence hurt CO, again the decisions made in the mid-late '90s laid the foundation to allow CO to weather the turmoil of
86 Post contains images drerx7 : I'm not so sure yet that this route is done for. This is prime 764. If it is then it is; however, I don't think the story has reached the denouement
87 Post contains links Coairman : I strongly disagree. According to the governments stats of RITA for Denver for the period of Oct 09 - Sept 10 UA mainline alone has a significant tra
88 TOMMY767 : There's been a few but there is some speculation (could very well be BS) that UA will choose to overfly the DEN hub in favor of IAH. This is somethin
89 OA412 : Strange speculation. Can IAH really duplicate some of DEN's traffic flows? It seems to far south to do that.
90 1337Delta764 : DL's SLC and DFW hubs coexisted for many years. The two things that killed DL's DFW hub included increased competition from AA, and 9/11.
91 greenair727 : I don't see what the big deal is about DEN losing LHR. Cleveland is a more dynamic and international market, (not to mention larger,) and it lost its
92 OA412 : I don't know about how dynamic Cleveland is (although being a part of the rust belt isn't really helping it's cause), but I do agree that it is a lar
93 Post contains images deltal1011man : huh? that is a long route for a 67-400 from DEN. Oh and just a note. UA just moved that slot to IAD........ why would they do that if CO was just goi
94 SESGDL : This website's stats are routinely different from the airports' individual statistics. I'm not sure of why the disparity exists between individual ai
95 OA412 : Not really. Sure, DEN is hot and high, but DEN-LHR is shorter than some routes that DL has used the 764 on in the past (i.e. JFK-ATH, JFK-IST, and AT
96 TOMMY767 : Go back and read some threads. The bizarre speculation exists.
97 deltal1011man : right but its the hot and high that does it. I just know the 763 that does SLC-CDG has had to stop at CVG a bunch of times.
98 CODC10 : UA is not currently using its entire LHR slot portfolio.
99 OA412 : Oh I believe that the speculation is happening, it just seems really strange to me. Obviously, you can flow Pacific Northwest/Mountain West to Mexico
100 knope2001 : Interesting stuff...thank you!
101 deltal1011man : No they have a few leased out. Most of which would be from the ex intraEuro routes they had. but as far as the slots they had, they moved DEN-LHR to
102 drerx7 : Did the CLE-LHR slot get absorbed into EWR?
103 FSDan : I was just browsing through Delta's electronic timetable and to my surprise, it shows a daily CRJ on DCA-CHS starting in April. If this was included i
104 CODC10 : Again, let's wait and see what happens before we start making pronouncements. It's pretty clear that the CO/UA schedule is in a state of flux as the
105 STT757 : Yeah the 764 would have no problem, nor would the 762. Both are better suited for DEN-LHR than UA's three class aircraft.
106 Post contains images deltal1011man : Don't believe thats true (yes on the 762 but no on the 764) I believe a 764 *could* make it but it would leave cargo and maybe PAXs behind. If it wer
107 CODC10 : I don't think you need to accuse me of bias, I've been very critical of CO lately. UA has a number of slots at LHR acquired from PA that are on recur
108 CODC10 : Instead of speculating, go pull the 764's performance data from Boeing (it's immediately available). Even on the hottest days in Denver, the aircraft
109 Post contains images deltal1011man : I'm going to say no chance in hell. I think this has a much better shot than DEN but i would say any slots UA gets at this point will go to ORD #4 #5
110 CODC10 : Again, let's wait and see. While there are certainly more pressing matters on the table, I don't just pull these things out of thin air...
111 United1 : Close... UA has 18 slot pairs at LHR UA uses 10/11 slots, 4 are leased to LH as part of the JV...the other three are with one of four airlines AC, VS
112 deltal1011man : Thats rightttttt was it they had 22 NRT slots?
113 CODC10 : Well, I have no interest in starting a conflict. I genuinely appreciate your regular, valuable contributions and I'll leave it at that. After all, ed
114 Post contains images kgaiflyer : The fact is everyone thinks this, but few actually say it. Well done, Enilria. Thank you for doing this.
115 drerx7 : I definitely appreciate it. Opinions and differences thereof are what this forum is built on, for better or worse. While I am IAH/HOU based - we canno
116 STT757 : Obviously WN succeeded where CO Lite was not.
117 STT757 : Yes, US Air used to have a very large operation at EWR during the late '80s-mid 1990s, US Air was EWR's second largest carrier with multiple mainline
118 deltacto : Agreed ---- Great Job Enilria
119 TOMMY767 : Funny how history repeats itself. UA is now big again at EWR through the merger and DL flies 33 flights a day from EWR including the daily AMS flight
120 Post contains images enilria : You make good, although fairly aged, points. I had completely forgotten about the US operation there. I would argue that wasn't really an attack by U
121 TOMMY767 : 10 years ago UA might have had a significant presence at EWR because they had the crew base open, the DEN-EWR-LHR 777 flight, weekend flights to MIA,
122 enilria : I thought they were still flying EWR-LAX which you accurately point out that they are not. They were flying 2,100 seats per day outbound before the m
123 TOMMY767 : That amounts to something like 17 flights a day maybe less. In 2001 UA was flying in the neighborhood of 30-40 a day from EWR.
124 enilria : AA is still flying EWR-LAX aren't they?
125 TOMMY767 : One daily flight. Currently a 757
126 Coairman : My apologies. I thought you meant total traffic including connecting pax. I know connecting traffic is not as important as O&D as far as profitab
127 CODC10 : Again, all this can be roughly calculated by pulling the 757 performance data from Boeing.com. I'm off to EWR at the moment and am unable to do so (th
128 Post contains images Transpac787 : In a simple 'yes', you could, but you don't have the basic operating weights of the 757-222's. I'm sure he'll claim he does, too. But I'll be happy t
129 United1 : I'm pretty sure no one on here has experience dispatching a 764 between DEN and LHR simply because none of the airlines that hubbed at LHR or DEN have
130 kgaiflyer : Okay, here's the rub. Many of those blank profiles belong to industry professionals who are (either) too shy to acknowledge their positions or really
131 ScottB : I'll step up and say that I've been one of the major proponents of that speculation -- but it is not limited to using IAH. With the combination of OR
132 mtnwest1979 : Damn, just did a quick look Lv ABQ 6/7 return 6/22. RT fare: $608! Good luck with that lol. Read LW press release and they praise the $300 ow fare as
133 TOMMY767 : They'd never give it up. If they do, DL would own the mountain west at the SLC hub. Regarding the other hubs: IAH is a great hub for Mexico and Latam
134 izbtmnhd : I wouldn't bet on NH DEN-NRT anytime soon no matter what their airport people are saying. As for the idea of a "Rocky Mountain" hub, there's one fund
135 slcdeltarumd11 : I think that DEN as an intercontinental hub for UA is gone the summer only LHR flight they don't even have interest in. DEN as a regional domestic hub
136 FSDan : Agree completely. DEN as a connecting hub is very valuable, and UA still serves many small domestic markets that do not have service from Frontier or
137 ScottB : The issue, though, is that the combined population of North Dakota, South Dakota, Montana, Idaho, and Wyoming is smaller than, for example, the metro
138 Post contains images enilria : Don't know what happened to my last post, perhaps my tirade against the EAS program got it torched. ...and I was skeptical, but when they cxld the LHR
139 TOMMY767 : A much different argument. UA's presence at MIA in the early 1990s was never really a hub for them and Shuttle by United was an airline within an air
140 Post contains images enilria : I get the impression that the new CO management of UA doesn't believe competition is healthy for them. I had hoped that was the goal of the merger, h
141 TOMMY767 : Likely because CO is used to owning most traffic for each airport that it dominates (EWR, IAH, CLE, GUM.) Like it or not, they are going to have to s
142 STT757 : They're dismantling the hub by adding routes?.. Could you explain because you totally lost me. Recent adds to Denver by CO/UA; Amarillo 2 daily ERJ -
143 enilria : Well, IAD has basically no competition any more. The LCCs have disappeared. IAD, although the lack of competition there would seem to argue against i
144 United1 : .... probably because UA is painting a little over 500 aircraft this year and also because they are adopting COs model of scheduling flights on a les
145 drerx7 : However, CO has added flights. Also add 1 738 to LAS. I don't see evidence of hub dismantling...yet at least, nor do I anticipate it.
146 izbtmnhd : If there was consistent economic growth, there would be a better argument to keep to SLC and DEN. The problem is the West is the hardest hit US region
147 Post contains images kgaiflyer : I'm not sure that's what you mean. FL, B6, VX, and WN all still exist at IAD, but all ( except VX) have moved their growth opportunities to BWI -- 52
148 STT757 : The merger with CO has added two powerful hubs to UA's network, that no doubt changes the fortunes of UA's other hubs. Prior to the merger with CO UA
149 izbtmnhd : A "top" hub that gave saw its only UA LHR flight given up to suppliment a already large IAD-LHR presence? Maybe LHR-DEN is coming back but the fact t
150 Post contains links PITrules : The fact that there are "only" two Rocky Mountain hubs is a benefit, not a problem. The reason I see it that way is because the purpose of those hubs
151 Schweigend : This bit from the original post -- the shifting of UA's LHR route from DEN to IAD -- has caused quite a bit of inspired discussion, illuminated by a
152 slcdeltarumd11 : I cannot understand why UA dosn't fly DEN-MEX daily. Its not even a long distance. MEX is a major business destination and alot of passengers connect
153 STT757 : During the days of the CO hub they flew DEN-ELP-MEX. I think we will see DEN-MEX soon enough.
154 TOMMY767 : Not san francisco??
155 Bartond : Agreed. I'm a little biased as it is my home airport but DEN provides so many connections for people traveling across the country, so it won't go awa
156 STT757 : Of Course SFO is an important hub for UA, but it's a testament to the depth of the new UA's network when a hub the size of SFO is not even in the top
157 scorpy : By what measurement? ORD is larger than EWR, and by last numbers I saw DEN is still larger than IAD (although maybe not anymore with recent cutbacks)
158 United1 : I don't think STT meant to put them in order...more of just a random list.
159 United1 : Taking a look at the numbers SFO and IAD are virtually tied in terms of numbers of total flights (UA/CO/Express) however SFO has a larger number of m
160 Post contains links slcdeltarumd11 : I'm not so sure the link to NRT is likely.....its starting to look less likely. ANA 2011 Network & Corporate Plan; Launches UA JV (by LAXintl Jan
161 United1 : This would be a 787 route more than likely and as Boeing is not expected to deliver one until Q3 now NH would be looking at a summer 2012 launch if t
162 slcdeltarumd11 : I"The market just hasn't met the financial performance goals, so we elected not to return the service this spring," spokesman Rahsaan Johnson told the
163 ScottB : Be careful not to confuse hub sites with airline hubs, though. With Delta at SLC and United, Frontier & Southwest at DEN, there are four airline
164 Post contains images enilria : I'm surprised if that paint job takes more than 5 minutes. I think this is a sign they are not as committed to the hub as UA was, we'll see what that
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