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AA A300s: Where Are They Now?  
User currently offlinecloud4000 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 641 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 13835 times:

I would like to know if any of AA A300s found new home after being withdrawn from service? According to http://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/American%20Airlines-stored-a300.htm

They are all stored. I’m surprised there are no buyers as they would make cheap buys and conversions to cargo.

Thanks.


Boston, USA
24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineN471wn From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1526 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 13638 times:
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Two have been flown to Dresden (N77080 and N7082A) for conversion to freighter and destined for Rus Aviation

User currently offlineFX1816 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1400 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 13126 times:

At least one was broken up here at VCV.

FX1816


User currently offlineBoxBoy From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 50 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 13104 times:

I have heard that there was interest, but the jets are in terrible condition requiring much money and work.

User currently offlinePA101 From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 491 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 12665 times:

@BoxBoy
What did AA do to them, to have them in such bad shape???


User currently offlinewashingtonian From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 12284 times:

Quoting PA101 (Reply 4):
What did AA do to them, to have them in such bad shape???

LOTS of flights from JFK to the Caribbean over the years take their toll   The planes were workhorses...


User currently offlineN471wn From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1526 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 10178 times:
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Quoting BoxBoy (Reply 3):
but the jets are in terrible condition requiring much money and work.

Heresay to be sure and I am sure that AA mechanics would dispute such a statement


User currently offlineAA777223 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1244 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 10067 times:

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 5):
LOTS of flights from JFK to the Caribbean over the years take their toll The planes were workhorses...

Don't forget that more than anything, it was MIA to the Caribbean. We know those vacationers can be a little wild.  



Sic 'em bears
User currently offlinedtw757 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1557 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 9980 times:

Most of AA's A300's were parked at ROW after they were retired from the fleet. My guess is that most of them are still there.


721,2,732,3,4,5,G,8,9,741,2,3,4,752,3,762,3,4,772,3,788,D93,5,M80,D10,M11,L10,100,AB6,319,20,21,332,3,388,146,CR2,7,ERJ,
User currently offlineboeing767mech From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1025 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 9564 times:

Quoting BoxBoy (Reply 3):
but the jets are in terrible condition requiring much money and work
Quoting N471wn (Reply 6):
Heresay to be sure and I am sure that AA mechanics would dispute such a statement

Yes please tell us what is wrong with the BUS. Most of those airplanes in ROW where leased airplanes, and the leasor is not going to take an airplane that is in TERRIBLE CONDITION as you call it. Most of the time the leasor will not take an airplane back if the engines or other time change items have less than 50 percent life left in them unless the Airline leasing the airframe overhauls the item or pays the leasor a service fee. The story we have been told UPS and FedEx didn't want the airplanes due to the engines. FedEx and UPS have either Pratts and or FEDEC on there airframes as where we had GE's without FEDEC.

David



Never under-estimate the predictably of stupidty
User currently offlineAviationAddict From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 616 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 9539 times:
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Kind of off topic but, has there ever been a case where an airline's decesion to retire an aircraft type without have a true one-for-one replacement (speaking capacity and performance, not frames) had a defining (good or bad) impact on the company? From what I understand the majority of the A300 routes were filled by B752s and B763ERs but, the former is much smaller and the latter slightly larger with greater range - this must have an impact on the routes. Plus, it must effect other routes as those types need be pulled from somewhere and replaced on the former routes by yet another type (I'm guessing (B738s and B762s).

I could see where such a move could have a huge domino effect on an entire airline. I'm sure AA considered this beforehand and wouldn't have retired the Airbuses if they weren't ready but has there ever been another airline that didn't plan so far ahead and paid the price for it?


User currently offlineAndrewUber From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2528 posts, RR: 40
Reply 11, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 9396 times:

There are quite a few in ROW, and they are in the process of being broken up.
Big version: Width: 1200 Height: 805 File size: 782kb


[Edited 2011-01-12 10:28:21]


I'd rather shoot BAD_MOTIVE
User currently offlinerealsim From Spain, joined Apr 2010, 645 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 9092 times:

Quoting AviationAddict (Reply 10):
From what I understand the majority of the A300 routes were filled by B752s and B763ERs but, the former is much smaller and the latter slightly larger with greater range - this must have an impact on the routes. Plus, it must effect other routes as those types need be pulled from somewhere and replaced on the former routes by yet another type (I'm guessing (B738s and B762s).

Initially, they were replaced by a mix of 752 and 763 as you say. However, with the recent AA expansion in international markets (for example, MIA-MAD, JFK-BCN/GIG/HND, LAX-PVG), the 763 are needed in longer international routes and almost all the former A300 flights are now only 752s. If you add this to the downsize of the SJU hub, the result is that AA capacity in the Caribbean has shrunk considerably.

Quoting boeing767mech (Reply 9):
Most of those airplanes in ROW where leased airplanes, and the leasor is not going to take an airplane that is in TERRIBLE CONDITION as you call it.

AA owns 10 A300s that are stored at ROW. On 31DEC2008 they had also 21 leased A300s stored. One year later, there were 3 less, 18.


User currently offlinecloud4000 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 641 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 8625 times:

Quoting boeing767mech (Reply 9):
Yes please tell us what is wrong with the BUS. Most of those airplanes in ROW where leased airplanes, and the leasor is not going to take an airplane that is in TERRIBLE CONDITION as you call it. Most of the time the leasor will not take an airplane back if the engines or other time change items have less than 50 percent life left in them unless the Airline leasing the airframe overhauls the item or pays the leasor a service fee. The story we have been told UPS and FedEx didn't want the airplanes due to the engines. FedEx and UPS have either Pratts and or FEDEC on there airframes as where we had GE's without FEDEC.

David

I do not see why FedEx couldn't use the aircraft, presuming the price is right. FedEx is already sourcing 757s that are much older the A300s, and with both RR and PW engines!



Boston, USA
User currently offlineUATulipfan From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 159 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 6390 times:

Quoting AviationAddict (Reply 10):

When UA retired 94 737s due to the economy recently, it had the profound affect of laying off 1437 pilots and closed many mainline stations and marked a sharp increase in the number of UAX flights since UA had no planes on order to replace them.



Long live the Tulip! The logo of the REAL United Airlines.
User currently offlinelotsamiles From United States of America, joined May 2005, 323 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5911 times:

Quoting boeing767mech (Reply 9):
and the leasor is not going to take an airplane that is in TERRIBLE CONDITION as you call it

They will with the right amount of cash as compensation. Since AA has phased out the A300 maintenance capabillty they would rather write a check than get the aircraft up to lease return condition.

These aircraft are all overdue for C checks or heavy checks and have many overdue AD's, etc since they have been stored for so long. The investment to get them flying again can be substantial.

However, depending on the need they can be brought back as evidenced by the two that are now in cargo conversion at EFW.


User currently offlinecloud4000 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 641 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5761 times:

Quoting UATulipfan (Reply 14):
When UA retired 94 737s due to the economy recently, it had the profound affect of laying off 1437 pilots and closed many mainline stations and marked a sharp increase in the number of UAX flights since UA had no planes on order to replace them.

With UA/CO merger, the new UA inherited 36 735s, what are the plans for these aircraft? Whatever the plans, it will be part of a greater right-sizing of UA's now substantial fleet.



Boston, USA
User currently offlineATA L1011 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1379 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5541 times:

Quoting AviationAddict (Reply 10):
latter slightly larger with greater range

It does offer may more range, but the 763 is a smaller plane internally as far as capacity and cargo holding capabilities and floor space for passengers than the A306 in a passenger config. It was a great plane for that nitch market for AA.

[Edited 2011-01-12 17:11:55]


Treat others as you expect to be treated!
User currently offlineBoxBoy From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 50 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5411 times:

Quoting boeing767mech (Reply 9):
FedEx and UPS have either Pratts and or FEDEC on there airframes as where we had GE's without FEDEC.

FedEx has CF6 (FADEC and non-FADEC), PT9, and PW4000.

Quoting N471wn (Reply 6):
Heresay to be sure and I am sure that AA mechanics would dispute such a statement

I don't mean to imply that they were not maintained well. I think AA maintenance is some of the best in the world. However, as Lotsamiles states ALL airlines try to retire fleets as they time out/ come due on inspections etc. I also heard that there were age related issues such as airframe composite delamination and corrosion that would have to be addressed in order to give the fleet a new life. Don't forget; those jets were based in MIA and flying the Caribbean. Salt air takes it's toll.

If they were in good shape, they would be getting sold not disassembled.

[Edited 2011-01-12 18:14:06]

User currently offlineUATulipfan From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 159 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 5219 times:

Quoting cloud4000 (Reply 16):

Most will probably be used on the routes they are on now with CO, though I'd like to see some of them used on the west coast in the LAX and SFO hubs, along with ORD. Routes that lost mainline or saw a reduction in it could do well with the 735s.



Long live the Tulip! The logo of the REAL United Airlines.
User currently offlineL1011 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1673 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4753 times:
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I flew on three of them near the end, and the interiors looked like new. They had been well cared for. So I don't think "wild vacationers" had anything to do with them being in bad shape.

Bob Bradley
Colonial Heights, VA



Fly Eastern's Golden Falcon DC-7B
User currently offlineUATulipfan From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 159 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 4649 times:

Quoting BoxBoy (Reply 18):

Lots of planes in the desert are probably in good condition and haven't been sold. NW DC-10s were in good shape, yet are now lying in the desert since ATA went under and WO has retired them. Demand for an A/C type will dictate whether they get sold or not. There isn't really demand for 20-23 y/o A300s. LH's were probably the best in the world MX wise, but some of them were scrapped, too.

And of course, the NW DC-9s that were as reliable as Toyota 22R-E engines, yet they still sit in MZJ.

[Edited 2011-01-13 16:14:19]


Long live the Tulip! The logo of the REAL United Airlines.
User currently offlineN6238P From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 501 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 4607 times:

Would an issue of frequently flying in and out of salt water environments have something to do with the scrapping of these planes? I know my company tries to wash any planes that comes back from a trip down in the Caribbean to prevent any chance of corrosion.


To actively root against anybody is just low, and I hope karma comes back at you with a vengeance
User currently offlineAirNovaBAe146 From Canada, joined Jun 2008, 362 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4467 times:

I've always though the A300s that AA retired and JAL is retiring would make their way to various third world operators, especially Africa. The A300 specializes in carrying a lot of people and cargo on short & medium routes, which is what a lot of air operators in assorted African nations need. A300s should be available at very affordable rates. I'm almost a bit surprised that only a pair of the AA A300s have been picked up by someone else.

User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12981 posts, RR: 100
Reply 24, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4322 times:
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Quoting cloud4000 (Reply 13):
I do not see why FedEx couldn't use the aircraft, presuming the price is right.

The issue is the 'price is right' on too many 757s. For the cost of a freighter conversion, an A300F has a resale value (unless an A300-600R) below the cost of conversion+airframe.  

If one needed range, 767s took quite a hit to resale during this downturn too.

Quoting cloud4000 (Reply 13):
FedEx is already sourcing 757s that are much older the A300s, and with both RR and PW engines!

My rumor mill has it that FedEx locked Boeing into a 757 pax to freight conversion program at a price that couldn't be beat.

757s were being sold at low prices I couldn't believe...
Combined with a low conversion price, it makes it tough to compete.

The 'plus' for the A300s is that FedEx (and UPS) already operate the type. Last I looked (and I'd be happy to be corrected), FedEx was buying more aircraft, in part for the CAN freight hub and in part for the 727 replacement. For 727 replacement, the 'cost per flight' of the A300 would be too high.  

FedEx could have used the aircraft. Alas, there were more economical choices available.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
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