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New Zealand Aviation Thread #90  
User currently offlinePA515 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2007, 888 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 18132 times:

Welcome to the New Zealand Aviation Thread #90.
In New Zealand Aviation Thread #89 - Merry Christmas we discussed:

  • - Air NZ 789 delay
  • - Possible Air NZ 77L's
  • - Future use of Air NZ 763's
  • - ZK-OKM delivery
  • - Air NZ 77E upgrade
  • - QF ZK-ZQD to ZQF delivery
  • - NZCAA EDTO requirements
  • - ZK-SUH purchased from ILFC
  • - Next Air NZ 744 retirements
  • - Extra AKL-PEK/PVG flights
  • - FJ getting two 77E's from SQ
  • - Air NZ RAR-SYD-RAR Jul to Oct 2011
  • - Extra Trans Tasman EK capacity
  • - CZ CAN-AKL nonstop
  • - A321 possibilities for Air NZ
  • - ZK-OAB delivery 31 Jan 2011
  • - Air NZ to BOM Dec 2011


203 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinecchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1762 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 18054 times:

Quoting PA515 (Thread starter):
Air NZ to BOM Dec 2011

How much traffic is there between NZL and BOM, is a stopover really required to make this profitable?


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25419 posts, RR: 86
Reply 2, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 17981 times:
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Quoting cchan (Reply 1):
How much traffic is there between NZL and BOM, is a stopover really required to make this profitable?

It surely wouldn't hurt. They could do both. Given that it is only speculation, if it is to be 3 x weekly, one could be non-stop and two through somewhere in Oz, say.

Or some variant of that.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinezkojh From China, joined Sep 2004, 1717 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 17928 times:

''Air New Zealand Announces Code Sharing Agreement with Virgin Atlantic''

A good start to 2011...

Air New Zealand and Virgin Atlantic have signed a code sharing agreement offering more flexibility and choice on routings between the UK and New Zealand for both carriers’ passengers.

This code share agreement follows a long history of interline cooperation, including a reciprocal Frequent Flyer Partnership between the two airlines, with passengers already travelling on routes between the UK and New Zealand on each others’ services.

Both airlines offer highly complementary products and services and a seamless transfer experience for customers making connections across their networks. Air New Zealand’s Business Premier seat has a version of Virgin Atlantic’s Upper Class Suite so passengers can enjoy the same award winning comfort when flying on both carriers.

“This new code share agreement provides yet further connectivity options for our customers as well as providing important connectivity for Virgin Atlantic customers to New Zealand and also the Cook Islands,” says Rob Fyfe, Chief Executive Officer of Air New Zealand.

“We are thrilled to announce this new code share with Air New Zealand,” says Steve Ridgway, Chief Executive of Virgin Atlantic.

“With award winning Business Class and Premium Economy products along with the excellent service onboard, both airlines complement each other perfectly and we are sure that passengers will enjoy the advantages of this new partnership.”

Passengers will be able to book with Virgin Atlantic to travel on connecting journeys on the following Air New Zealand routes using Virgin’s VS flight code:

Los Angeles – Rarotonga
San Francisco – Auckland
Sydney – Auckland
Sydney – Christchurch
Sydney - Wellington
Auckland – Christchurch
Auckland – Wellington
Auckland –Queenstown
Auckland – Rarotonga

Air New Zealand’s passengers will be able to book on Virgin Atlantic’s services between London Heathrow and San Francisco and between Hong Kong and Sydney for connecting journeys using Air New Zealand’s NZ flight code.

The two carriers expect the code share to come into force on 28 February 2011 after obtaining the relevant government approvals.



CZ 787 to AKL can't wait.
User currently offlinecchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1762 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 17756 times:

Quoting zkojh (Reply 3):
Air New Zealand’s passengers will be able to book on Virgin Atlantic’s services between London Heathrow and San Francisco and between Hong Kong and Sydney for connecting journeys using Air New Zealand’s NZ flight code.

I am rather surprised NZ doesn't code share on VS's services between China, Hong Kong, Japan and LHR given that NZ has been marketing these flights as alternatives on their website (in the case of HKG, the VS flights were marketed with NZ's AKL-HKG services before NZ started their own HKG-LHR services).


User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8580 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 17624 times:
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Quoting cchan (Reply 4):
I am rather surprised NZ doesn't code share on VS's services between China, Hong Kong, Japan and LHR

Do the relevant air service agreements permit codeshares on these routes ? Often these sorts of agreements contain restrictions so that may be a possible reason that these routes are not included in the agreement .



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4840 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 17591 times:

This new agreement coupled with the agreement with DJ and the invitation to the *A meeting in NZL recently, surely *A is actively trying to court the Virgin Group and perhaps the Virgin Group is quite keen to join. There's no way VS would join OW due BA. They probably wouldn't join ST since AF/KLM/Alitalia will be a big block in Western Europe. They already have a agreements with LH and of course SQ owns a large stake. *A makes a lot of sense and would give the alliance a good boost in the UK.


56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlinemacilree From New Zealand, joined Dec 2006, 243 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 17524 times:

Quoting cchan (Reply 4):
I am rather surprised NZ doesn't code share on VS's services between China, Hong Kong, Japan and LHR

kiwiandrew is asking the correct question in Reply 5. For New Zealand airlines rights beyond Hong Kong and China are restricted and there are currently no rights beyond Japan.



John Macilree
User currently offlinemacilree From New Zealand, joined Dec 2006, 243 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 17510 times:

The Centre for Air Transport Research (CATR) at the University of Otago has recently released for download a fascinating 83-page draft report by economic consultancy Covec The New Zealand Aviation Operational Environment: A Guide for the Tourism Sector as part of its major MED/FRST-funded project.

I would be interested in any comments. For example, I have seen from Boeing an AKL-centered range chart for B777 variants that would be more informative than the LAX-centered chart used.



John Macilree
User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8580 posts, RR: 13
Reply 9, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 17238 times:
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Quoting macilree (Reply 7):
kiwiandrew is asking the correct question in Reply 5.

Woohoo ! I finally got something right - thanks John 



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7262 posts, RR: 13
Reply 10, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 16944 times:

I've had it reexplained to me as best as here's a bit of a rundown..

21.957(a)

NZ is an existing and complying 180 operator.

21.959

"(1) the certificate holder has a demonstrated capability
conducting EDTOs under a 180 minute EDTO authorisation
issued under rule 121.955"
  
(2) the airframe and engine combination of the aeroplane to be
used for the EDTO is approved by the State of Design to
operate to the maximum diversion time requested by the
certificate holder; and
(3) the requirements of rule 121.957(b) are met.
   Therefore it can can apply the following...

121.961 Requirements for EDTO more than 240 minutes

(1) conducting EDTO in accordance with an EDTO
authorisation issued by the Director under rule 121.955 or
121.959 for at least 24 consecutive months; and
(2) conducting EDTO of more than 180 minutes with the
aeroplane airframe/engine combination to be used in
accordance with an EDTO authorisation issued by the
Director under rule 121.959 for at least 12 consecutive
months.

NZ has operated 180 for more than 24 consecutive months with 763/772 aircraft.

121.964
(1) the certificate holder has a demonstrated capability
conducting EDTOs as required by rule 121.961(a); and
(2) the airframe and engine combination of the aeroplane to be
used for the EDTO is approved by the State of Design to
operate to the maximum diversion time requested by the
certificate holder

This means that combined with the previous .961 we have the following points

-772s are already qualified for EDTO 240 as it has operated in NZ service for more than 2 years at EDTO 180. In one year's time they can be granted EDTO 330 if NZ choose to apply for it.
-77Ws will have comply in 1 years time but after that time can apply for EDTO 330 (which is spec for 77W)
-2 year requirements are for fleet EDTO 1 year requirements are for type EDTO.
-Effectively this means that presuming the applications have been filed from Jan 2012 NZ can operate EDTO 330 on all 772/77W longhaul flights. 77L ops qualify for 330 after 1 year from delivery once they do initial type endorsement.
If Boeing can provide 77Ls then we aren't going to see them operate EDTO 330 routes before late 2012/2013.

- Therefore possibly 77Ls are not as likely as one might be led to believe, and even though lighter on range, more 77E/77Wss are the order of the day in order to fly EDTO 330 routes by early 2012.


User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8580 posts, RR: 13
Reply 11, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 16888 times:
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Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 10):
I've had it reexplained to me as best as here's a bit of a rundown..

Thanks for the explanation - that makes things much clearer    I have to admit that I have been very confused about EDTO up until now .

Do you know whether the destination countries have to recognise EDTO as well ? eg , if the relevant aviation authorities in , say , Argentina or Brazil have not " signed up" for EDTO would that prevent NZ operating services to EZE or GRU under EDTO rules ?



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12217 posts, RR: 18
Reply 12, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 16862 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

QF have confirmed SYD-DFW-BNE-SYD flights as QF7/8 with the dropping of SFO. It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO (by AlitaliaDC10 Jan 13 2011 in Civil Aviation)

Hopefully this new announcement by QF will speed up NZ launching ORD services or maybe risk loosing customers


User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 5054 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 16830 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 11):
Do you know whether the destination countries have to recognise EDTO as well ? eg , if the relevant aviation authorities in , say , Argentina or Brazil have not " signed up" for EDTO would that prevent NZ operating services to EZE or GRU under EDTO rules ?

I was told by one of the CAA officials on the joint EDTO task force that the destination country must agree to a EDTO rules service. If ever an ICAO set of EDTO rules is created and a country is an ICAO member this might change.


User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7262 posts, RR: 13
Reply 14, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 16791 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 11):
Do you know whether the destination countries have to recognise EDTO as well ? eg , if the relevant aviation authorities in , say , Argentina or Brazil have not " signed up" for EDTO would that prevent NZ operating services to EZE or GRU under EDTO rules ?

My limited understanding is that the operator must satisfy their own country's aviation regulators first as a general type rating, and then each route will be evaluated by both Origin/Destination Governing bodies on a case by case basis

I would be surprised if Brazil didn't have very strict adherences to EDTO gven the huge size of their Airline industry and due to their Transatlantic flight paths. RG/JJ have been operating twins for sometime on those routes.


User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 5054 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 16701 times:

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 10):
- Therefore possibly 77Ls are not as likely as one might be led to believe, and even though lighter on range, more 77E/77Wss are the order of the day in order to fly EDTO 330 routes by early 2012.


But there are only two EDTO 330 probable routes for NZ ; AKL-GRU and AKL- JNB if ever done non-stop. AKL-ORD is EDTO 240 but the flyaround at EDTO 180 is less than 50nm based on GC tracking so the 77L could do that from Day 1.
NZ could probably get the GRU service started with a 744 with belly tanks but with the 77E refurnishing plan I'm not sure when these would be available. In any event the 744's are supposed to be gone by about 2013 or 2014. What I have outlined is three possible routes that need from 7300nm to 7700nm ESAD capability, certainly out of the effective range of the 77E with the 77W being capable of two of the three ( GRU and JNB if ever) but probably payload restricted on JNB. Clearly, at least to me they need the 77L . ORD at ~7700nm is a non starter without the 77L.


User currently offline28L28L From Australia, joined Nov 2005, 459 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 16592 times:

Has the new 777-319 made its first revenue flight across the Tasman yet?
Cheers.


User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7262 posts, RR: 13
Reply 17, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 16583 times:

Quoting 28L28L (Reply 16):

Has the new 777-319 made its first revenue flight across the Tasman yet?

Yes so far it has done MEL,MEL,BNE,MEL..since 11th..


User currently offlinejoelyboy911 From New Zealand, joined Oct 2009, 244 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 16282 times:

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 17):
Yes so far it has done MEL,MEL,BNE,MEL..since 11th..

Was anybody here on any of these flights? Anything to say about the new seating configurations?



Flown: NZ, NY, SJ, QF, UA, AC, EI, BE, TP, AF
User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7262 posts, RR: 13
Reply 19, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 16213 times:

Quoting joelyboy911 (Reply 18):
Was anybody here on any of these flights? Anything to say about the new seating configurations?

NZ107 was on the inaugural flight. I was also present for that flight
I have been onboard a few times since. I had a thorough examination of the aircraft a couple of days ago while it was sitting on the gate on it's return sector from Brisbane.

It looks like a vodka bar with wings with the lighting. Sometimes you will like it, other times it will really get on your nerves. Well it did in my case.
Business Class has barely changed to look at - just a few minor cosmetic changes and of course the colour.
PE looks quite sterile and a bit surgical on the aircraft (more so than the mock up). it also looks a bit compartmentalized so makes the cabin look really wide and long - which if you're used to PE is a big change from small intimate cabins on 744 and short cabin on 77E.
There are some excellent individual seats onboard if you know where to look.
The window seat in PE is hard to get out of without disturbing your neighbour.

Overall I give it a 7/10. It's nice at the moment, but I don't know how quickly it will date. The brown C/U class seats of the previous generation also gave me that impression - and that ended up being the case..

It reminds me greatly of a longhaul 77W version of the VX 319/320s in the US....

[Edited 2011-01-14 17:30:50]

User currently offlinealangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 2106 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 16147 times:

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 19):
It reminds me greatly of a longhaul 77W version of the VX 319/320s in the US....

That seems quite appropriate since surely AirNZ got the idea for pushing buttons to order food on Trans Tasman services from the similar procedure on Virgin America.

Now that AirNZ is getting close to two Virgins - with VS codesharing on AKL-SFO, there might be ways of tying in with VX on SFO flights. For example if I look at AirNZ offerings to Seattle, the system will offer me a codeshare on UA or a flight on Alaskan. VX would be a good choice as well. It will be good if AirNZ and partners are the airlines who benefit from Qantas no longer flying to SFO. From reading interviews with the new United Management, it is quite possible that UA will become a very strong carrier out of SFO, perhaps in time for next Southern Summer season.


User currently offlinejoelyboy911 From New Zealand, joined Oct 2009, 244 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 16123 times:

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 19):
PE looks quite sterile and a bit surgical

That's what I had thought (for all three classes, actually), seeing the photographs of the mockups - that they had gone away from the earthy tones (that I quite liked) of green, brown, beige, to a grayscale palette with black, white and silver.

I didn't think I liked it very much, in comparison, 'hip' and 'modern' thought it may be, but I'll reserve judgement until I fly on it in a few months' time.

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 19):
The window seat in PE is hard to get out of without disturbing your neighbour.

Harder than an old PE seat (3-3-3), with two neighbours to climb past?

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 19):
Overall I give it a 7/10.

I guess Air New Zealand management would (or should) be a bit disappointed (with themselves) if 7/10 is the average customer opinion/satisfaction with their new product.

[Edited 2011-01-14 19:34:06]


Flown: NZ, NY, SJ, QF, UA, AC, EI, BE, TP, AF
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12217 posts, RR: 18
Reply 22, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 15994 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 19):
PE looks quite sterile and a bit surgical on the aircraft (more so than the mock up). it also looks a bit compartmentalized so makes the cabin look really wide and long - which if you're used to PE is a big change from small intimate cabins on 744

I actually really prefer the downstairs PE area on the B744 as its a very private and quiet area! Certainly get a good sleep there so the big spacious feeling on the B77W is certainly going to be interesting!

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 19):
It reminds me greatly of a longhaul 77W version of the VX 319/320s in the US....

While sitting in the NZ and AC lounge at LAX last month and earlier this month, I watched several VX flights leaving T3 for their red eyes and thought the mood lighting always looked really good, so hopefully the mood lighting will help settle down passengers before take off and make for a more enjoyable flight.


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12217 posts, RR: 18
Reply 23, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 15965 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Just been looking at NZ fares to LAX for July/August and noticed that NZ6 now again arrives at 12.30pm, what happened to the 10.30am arrival into LAX for NZ6 to enable better West Coast connections?

User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5351 posts, RR: 11
Reply 24, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 15902 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 23):
Just been looking at NZ fares to LAX for July/August and noticed that NZ6 now again arrives at 12.30pm, what happened to the 10.30am arrival into LAX for NZ6 to enable better West Coast connections?

Changed with SFO which will depart AKL arrive SFO earlier.

Quoting 777ER (Reply 12):
Hopefully this new announcement by QF will speed up NZ launching ORD services or maybe risk loosing customers

But what with? A 772 wouldn't come close would it? They are increasing SFO which is a big UA hub, and to boot QF are dropping SFO.


25 777ER : AKL-LAX-ORD with NZ6/5 with mid afternoon departure from AKL? Midafternoon still allows for SYD, BNE and MEL pax to join
26 aerorobnz : It does have the benefit of one less person the climb over, but it''s not easy due the angles concerned and the beanbag footrests don't make it easy
27 sunrisevalley : They need the 77L for this route .The 77W would do it but more load restricted than EK on the DXB-LAX route at 315-passengers.
28 NZ5 : The only problem I see with that is that it doesn't allow connections from widebody services from both MEL and BNE which means that pax can't travel
29 aerorobnz : All A320s are economy only since November...
30 alangirvan : It cannot be too long before the Virgin Group product relaunch. If everyone expects Virgin will have a system wide business class - will their Pacifi
31 777ER : Even with a delayed departure from AKL, I'm sure the lost time was made up in-flight Did the mood lighting allow you a better sleep? Does NZs current
32 aerorobnz : You win some you lose some. Sometimes it's 11h dead, other times it's 12h40. When it's too early US customs hold ppl onboard until they open... hence
33 767er : NZ6 is the first international arrival at T2 at LAX.
34 aerorobnz : exactly. but unlike AKL which is manned 24/7 T2 is not....
35 NZ2 : I see today NZ are offering goldmembers the chance to go on board the 77W in AKL and CHC. I have signed up for the AKL tour, it was ment to be as the
36 NZ5 : Yes I am looking forward to it a lot, especially after reading the trip reports from those on the inaugural flights. Suprisingly to me, the toilets a
37 Post contains images Kaiarahi : The first international requiring CBP - AC comes in from YVR at 10:18, but pax are pre-cleared in YVR. The NZ6 arrival at 10:30 is great though - no
38 Zkpilot : Not that hard. It does not take long at all to rip out a row of Y seats. They are designed to do this. Business seats on NB aircraft are not the big h
39 cchan : Tried a few times with various airlines, not much luck. You will probably have better chance telling them you have a meeting before the flight and ca
40 NZ107 : As you mentioned- apart from the minor cosmetic changes, J hasn't changed. I found Y+ to be pretty nice. I was skeptical to see how much legroom I'd
41 A330NZ : I think everyone is being a bit fussy about the new Y+, to me, just being in a plane is good enough. I'm lucky just to be able to go on a flight, and
42 cchan : Most of us here aren't complaining for ourselves, we are discussing how the service could have been improved so NZ could attract more customers. Pass
43 NZ107 : Exactly. Just imagine flying LCCs (JQ) all the time for short routes - for me, that really killed some of the enjoyment even though those flights wer
44 DavidByrne : Just noted the above in Opodo travel news - upshot is that SYD-RAR is a success and will run weekly, year-round, for at least three years.
45 aerorobnz : FJ will also commence NAN-RAR again...
46 cchan : This will be very welcomed by the Fijian workers in RAR, but I would not expect many tourists on these flights.
47 zkojh : now that Boeing have come up with yet another delay on the 787. how long before NZ get some freebies??
48 Kaiarahi : 1. Boeing hasn't said anything new about 789 delivery. 2. No "freebies". Compensation (if any) will depend on the terms of the contract and negotiati
49 VirginFlyer : I had an interesting experience early on Sunday morning a couple of weeks ago. I was dropping someone off for the LAN flight to Sydney, which departs
50 Zkpilot : It normally opens about 0330 however it is actually 24 hour... there is a phone near the entrance that can be rung and a customs officer will escort
51 aerorobnz : Cafe/Shops etc - based on the day of the week are open around 4-4.30. Customs departures roster their staff to work around the hub with a peak of the
52 VirginFlyer : I honestly didn't see this phone - maybe the lack of sleep and time of the night impacted my powers of observation - where is it exactly? The area th
53 xiaotung : Is this official with a date already?
54 NZ1 : Updated info on ZK-OAB, the new All Blacks Domestic A320. Arrival is now on the 1st Feb. NZ1
55 alangirvan : Air New Zealand is taking a 14% interest in VirginBlue - AirNZ Press Release
56 kiwiandrew : Thanks for posting ... do you have a link to the press release ? I can't find it on NZ's website yet .
57 cchan : Thanks for the update, do we have a date for the 2nd new A320 yet?
58 Post contains links kiwiandrew : This just out of the SMH http://www.smh.com.au/business/air-n...take-in-virgin-20110120-19xs8.html seems to provide first confirmation of above post
59 mariner : The code share was simply sensible. Now the relationship gets interesting. mariner
60 aflyingkiwi : No dates have been released yet. It mentioned in the previous thread that NZ have bought a tender for ground handling at BOM. Wow, this is interestin
61 Knid : Indeed, I wonder if DJ will take a similar stake in NZ?
62 NZ107 : I've heard that buying a majority stake in DJ wouldn't be in the best interests of NZ.. DJ's a bit of a mess. In the meantime anyway.
63 A330NZ : I was wondering if BI are going to retrofit their fleet of 772's, I flew them recently out of AKL and they still had SQ seats. As part of my holiday,
64 joelyboy911 : The linked article says that NZ bought a 'substantial' stake, and planned to increase it to up to 14.99% of shares, as that would be within limits on
65 kiwiandrew : VA is not a candidate for full aqquisition , NZ can hold 100% of a domestic carrier in Australia but no more than 49% of an international one . As fa
66 mariner : Fyfe told Borghetti they are not intending a takeover, which a majority stake would be. We'll know tomorrow before the market opens when they make a
67 cchan : IMHO it is unlikely. BI is using the 772 only until their 787s get delivered, which should be within the next 2-3 years. Could this be just a way to
68 joelyboy911 : No, that makes perfect sense. Thank you for the clarification. But can't NZ fly international routes out of Australia? What are the limitations (if a
69 kiwiandrew : NZ can operate 5th freedom services beyond Australia ( subject to rights from the 3rd country , of course ) but my understanding is that those flight
70 Post contains images joelyboy911 : So then it would (hypothetically speaking) be possible for NZ to buy V Australia, and at the day of transfer, all the flight numbers have to be chang
71 NZ107 : Indeed. But even so, apparently DJ has a lot of problems to sort out before NZ would even consider a takeover.
72 aerorobnz : I would say this is exactly what it is. The rumblings are that BOM(India in general) will not be within the next 12 or even 18 months, but that the t
73 Post contains links mariner : Crikey takes the view that Virgin Blue has solved, or is set-up to solve, its structural problems: http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalk...-zealand-se
74 cchan : maybe not, considering they have the SYD-RAR flights under different flight numbers to AKL-RAR ones.
75 Post contains links VirginFlyer : I wonder how solid the comitment is to Delta, or whether Virgin could swing to the new United? Probably off topic for here - maybe worth discussing a
76 PA515 : No. I stuck my neck out. The recent post by a QF F/A that Air NZ has requested tenders for ground handling in BOM, plus the approximately four day ga
77 xiaotung : What gave that away? I thought this would be AKL-BOM non-stop.
78 PA515 : I understood there was nothing in the fleet capable of AKL-BOM non-stop (12,303 kms) with a reasonable payload. It is nearly 1,000 kms futher than AK
79 cchan : This is probably what NZ does NOT want. The NZ/DJ alliance is limited to trans-tasman routes and domestic feed in the two countries. On other routes
80 gemuser : We have to ask macilree to be sure but my understanding was that Air NZ could operate from Australia as if it was an Australian airline and QF, JQ, D
81 xiaotung : But with NZ now also being a shareholder that must change things?
82 koruman : I have written in the other thread that the investment in the Virgin Australia group has been imminent for some time. The 14.99% stake is a consequenc
83 777ER : Maybe have NZ operate all LAX services (if the DL deal doesn't go ahead and because of VAs poorly designed cargo doors) and DJ use the B77Ws on other
84 A330NZ : Correct me if I'm wrong, but DJ does very little that NZ doesn't, and wouldn't that cannibalize it's chance of entering star? Or have I missed somethi
85 aerokiwi : Yeah well that little neatly packaged, but hugely transparent, load of bull went out the window the second approval was granted for their "alliance".
86 kiwiandrew : Good point , I hadn't thought about that - egg on my face again . I must have misunderstood how the rights work .
87 Post contains images aerokiwi : Macilree can probably clear it up definitively. Macilree?
88 NZ107 : Uhh.. How about their whole Australian domestic network. There's also a reason for this alliance going through betwen NZ and DJ.
89 Post contains links mariner : So now we know. Overnight, they bought more shares and will have the full 14.9% stake: http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/indu...Air-NZ-boosts-stake-in-
90 macilree : New Zealand has not been able to secure seventh freedom passenger rights from either Australia or the United States. Therefore Air New Zealand cannot
91 koruman : This is very easily managed........ NZ135 AKL 0930 BNE 1000 (788) NZ135 BNE 1100 HKG 1800 (788) NZ136 HKG 0700 BNE 1700 (788) NZ136 BNE 1800 AKL 2330
92 aerorobnz : For those interested ZK-OKM operated as NZ6 to LAX on 19JAN and arrived back as NZ5 this morning. Interestingly many of the Americans were observed sa
93 cchan : The problems with these times are that this service does not connect to NZ's HKG-LHR services and a 2330 arrival at AKL may not be very attractive fo
94 aflyingkiwi : I'm sure NZ can tweak the times so that the HKG-LHR flight can be turned into a redeye. I believe CX operate a couple of redeyes on that route. These
95 sunrisevalley : Jason, I'm afraid you are repeating one of the many A.Net canards. The narrower door is only at the rear. The rear cargo compartment of a 77W holds 2
96 cchan : The morning departure from HKG to LHR sees less competition (QF x1, CX x1), but a late night departure from HKG has comparatively more flights (BA x2
97 NZ1 : There is to be a special visitor to WLG on 9th Feb. Can't say too much more yet, except to say, get your cameras out because it will be spectacular. N
98 777ER : Thanks for that. Didn't know about the loads the rear doors could take! Connect onto VS services
99 DavidByrne : I'm surprised if the SYD-RAR sector is not linked to an RAR-AKL flight with the same flight number. IIRC, when the initial season operated last year,
100 777ER : Thanks for the heads up Mike! Thats my rostered day off work - so any idea yet on the ETA/ETD?
101 NZ107 : Well by looking at the other schedules, it'd have to be on the ground from between 0930 and 1600..
102 nzrich : The Cook Islands is self ruling but with NZ helping out . All Cook Islanders have automatic entry to NZ . So For Air NZ maybe the Cooks class it as s
103 joelyboy911 : Yes, I doubt NZ has to do too much negotiation with the Cook Islands government to get air rights if they want them. They are in 'free association' w
104 PA515 : From the Dec 2011 schedule: AKL-RAR Sat 0900/1355 Fri NZ 46 RAR-SYD Fri 1505/1920 Sat NZ 61 SYD-RAR Sat 2030/0530 Sat NZ 60 RAR-AKL Sat 0645/1005 Sun
105 aerorobnz : Yep, I think so.
106 777ER : I'm guessing B77W judging by those hours! Wonder if NZ gold members will be welcomed on board to look around?
107 sunrisevalley : At one time I had family that lived high up on Roseneath overlooking Evans Bay. I used to think that was a great location since it was just a little
108 zkojh : Quoting NZ1 (Reply 97): There is to be a special visitor to WLG on 9th Feb. Can't say too much more yet, except to say, get your cameras out because i
109 Unclekoru : It appears that from mid April the J32 disappears from NZ's schedule. Schedule now shows a Q300 on CHC-HKK-CHC three days a week (M.W.F..) amongst oth
110 Post contains links zkojh : reported today on nzherald. Air New Zealand carried 9.9 per cent more passengers in December than a year ago. Overall, the airline carried 1.32 millio
111 kiwiandrew : I hadn't heard about that one . Is there really enough traffic between IVC and ZQN to warrant such a service ?
112 Post contains images Kaiarahi : 788 on a short-field cross-wind test?
113 NZ2 : Yes the do look pretty slim, but OK for us smaller people. I would rather have the space in my seat. Looking forward to the 77W viewing day this Frid
114 NZ107 : I'd still say it looks pretty slim. It doesn't help that the front of the seats is black..
115 Post contains images macilree : Having trained for my PPL at WLG I can assure you that decent cross winds are very rare.
116 PA515 : Not unless the schedule is changed. The PVG and PEK flights return the same day. AKL-PVG Mo Th Fr Su 2345/0710 Mo Tu Fr Sa NZ 289 PVG-AKL Mo Tu Fr Sa
117 Post contains links tayser : Inaugural arrival into MEL: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=70382799&postcount=2813 ___________ with all the talk of international e
118 Post contains links kaitak : I'd be surprised if they didn't, but what happens will be tied in with the likely arrival date for the 789s and at this stage, that's likely to be 20
119 Post contains links gasman : http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10701482 So Air NZ staff are also offended by "Rico". Personally I'm astonished he h
120 sunrisevalley : I haven't counted but they have a lot of 788's to get out the door in the meantime! A lot will depend how quickly they can bring the new ( is it) Cha
121 Post contains links and images Kaiarahi : Just a lot of really bad pilots pretending .... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_LaAkAyoz0
122 Zkpilot : This is true for many airlines but is certainly NOT the case for NZ. NZ has ordered the 787 for mostly LH/ULH routes (AKL-ORD/BOM etc). The A332 simp
123 joelyboy911 : I would expect the two 77W options to be taken up. In particular, to replace the 744s that will be scheduled on SFO routes, and YVR as well. Though I
124 sunrisevalley : I don't believe you can talk about the NZ 77W fleet without taking into account the V Aus fleet and how these two fleets might be integrated. There w
125 Post contains images joelyboy911 : That's certainly a good point. I certainly think more 77Ws will join Air New Zealand, and there are only two options being held (according to wikipedi
126 777ER : Any one know when a fleet announcement will be made in regards to further aircraft to cover the B789 delays?
127 koruman : They should be, but they're not. I have an email from a very, very senior executive to whom I had written with precisely that suggestion three years
128 cchan : Are we going a bit too far with the speculations here? NZ only has a minority stake in DJ. Although there will be some form of cooperation, fleet int
129 Post contains links and images mariner : If Boeing had announced one big delay instead of seven incremental ones, who knows what might have happened? It is my understanding that the A332 HGW
130 Post contains images aerorobnz : I rate the A330-200 very highly from a passenger perspective and as a 767 replacement, and from an AKL perspective is becoming a very common sight..
131 777ER : Maybe re-instate the AKL-RAR-LAX service with an ORD add on with connections to/from AKL services with the B763 till the B789 arrives?
132 PA515 : Boeing is due to give more details of the 787 delay on Thursday NZ time, so Air NZ may announce something soon after. PA515
133 joelyboy911 : Could this be done under the arrangement I proposed in my post? V Australia would remain an Australian airline, franchising the Air New Zealand brand
134 A330NZ : I have been in Thailand, and have very limited internet, so forgive me if the topic has passed or if someone has suggested this already. I have 2 thin
135 PA515 : Yes, the restrictions apply to codeshares. PA515
136 mariner : I'm guessing that Air NZ will stay with Boeing for the widebody fleet, but who knows? A strong argument against the A330 is the cost of maintenance f
137 aflyingkiwi : I personally don't see E-Jets here on NZ domestic. The flight times on Domestic NZ flights just aren't long enough for the plane to be very useful. T
138 cchan : Same here. Regional jets are quite unnecessary for NZ regional routes, especially when there is no competition or when competitors also opt for turbo
139 sunrisevalley : This does not surprise me. All the new routes that have been identified need 7000nm ESAD ( AKL-BOM) ; 7300nm ESAD (GRU-AKL) and 7500NM ESD( ORD-AKL).
140 kiwiandrew : I have seen this mentioned in quite a few posts , does anyone know how feasible this is ? Would the aircraft need re-certification ? Would the expens
141 ZKSUJ : With regards to E-Jets. The Q400 would do the job. Those things are significantly faster than the ATR and Q300 and the time savings aquired with an E-
142 sunrisevalley : There was a discussion on Pprune on some of the technical issues and what existing systems may need to be rearranged. I am sure that all issues will
143 Post contains images ZKNCL : Hi, Guys I have always read this tread and today I decided to join Airliners.net as a Premium member so I could post here and I have just 2 Questions.
144 kiwiandrew : According to a site which I am not allowed to link to it is only leased from Air NZ - will send you a PM
145 cchan : If I remember correctly, the whole 734 fleet would be gone by end of the year, according to a reputable member who often post in these threads.
146 PA515 : It was leased to TAM for 30 months in July 2006, but later sold. For some reason Airline Fleet and Production List websites didn't recognise the chan
147 NZ107 : Been said straight out of CEO Rob Fyfe's mouth - No E-Jets for Air NZ. Does 30 mins matter to a lot of people, especially if the other alternative is
148 777ER : It would be good for longer TP routes like HLZ- CHC, and WLG-AKL and CHC-AKL during off peak times, but other then tha no because DJ already have the
149 aerorobnz : OKM heads to CHC tomorrow....
150 VirginFlyer : The question is, does this translate into extra revenue for the airline that more than offsets the increased cost of operation? V/F
151 NZ107 : Oh, missed that point.. The general public, when booking, usually don't know what they're flying on until they board the plane. How on earth is this
152 cchan : IMHO it is more correct to say most of the passengers don't know what they have flown on even after they got off the plane.
153 Post contains images gasman : I'm outraged. I think you do the general public a massive dis-service. - Anything with propellors is a "friendship" - A320s and 737s can be lumped un
154 cchan : I thought that also includes 737s and A320s, I've heard many times passengers, relatives and friends talking about the jumbo at PMR in those days the
155 Post contains links and images NZ107 : For those who won't have a chance to view the new Y+ cabin for a while, here's a picture I took upon disembarking the first commercial flight: Air New
156 Post contains links PA515 : ZK-NGF is For Sale on Planemart available from September 2011. PA515
157 aerokiwi : Intriguing that no one mentions Fyfe's fairly bad timing with the Virgin purchase. You know, the week before a profit downgrade warning. Did he overpa
158 777ER : IMHO those comments are unfair on NZ and its board and as you would know there are several factors to take into account before you should make those
159 PA515 : I don't think it was bad idea to get 14.9% of Virgin Blue Holdings quickly at 44c. If they had mucked around there is no guarantee the holders of lar
160 anstar : I also think a large investment firm sold out just after the news so were profit taking. NZ would have been stupid to realise that DJ's profit would
161 kiwiandrew : Fyfe's bad timing ? What , you think he took the decision on his own and the board weren't involved ? In any case , as others have already mentioned
162 mariner : I think it's good. It would be quite difficult to accuse Air NZ of insider trading now. mariner
163 aerokiwi : Actually informing the other airline might be a good place to start. Yes there are many factors, but we've been down this route of craptastic purchas
164 aerokiwi : Note that I did implicate the Board in the decision. The price you pay, in part, determines the ultimate value of that shareholding. You can't just f
165 mariner : In this case, I think squeaky clean is business savvy. I am the least suspicious person around, but I raised several eyebrows when they made the purc
166 sunrisevalley : From what I read, Fyfe said that he phoned Borghetti and told him of the purchase. I ascribe no more to this than he let Borghetti know that the purc
167 Post contains links mariner : Yes. Supposedly, Mr. Fyfe told Mr. Borghetti after Air NZ has started buying, But the important thing is that there had been no collusion: http://www
168 Post contains links zkojh : Air New Zealand subsidiary Air Nelson will begin direct Auckland to Paraparaumu flights later this year. The new schedule begins on Labour Weekend usi
169 Post contains links zkojh : ''Virgin dips on profit warning'' Hasn't even been a week in the making - The value of Air New Zealand's investment in Virgin Blue fell by as much as
170 NZ1 : Yes, it's leaving the fleet in July. NZ1
171 Post contains links NZ1 : One of the 737-300's from Domestic suffered a bird strike this evening while flying DUD-WLG: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&
172 ZKNCL : I was recently boarding an Air Pacific Flight when I saw ZK-NCL (Wait Wha?) Pushing Back from it gate and it's winglets had been stripped of it's colo
173 NZ1 : Yes it's temporary, but I cannot disclose why sorry. NZ1
174 v2fix : Its been a while since I posted - and I think I have recoverd form the Xmas excess - so my thoughts have been turning back to all things NZ aviation.
175 NZ107 : Well it's things like these where you must wonder how much the decision by VBA to put small cargo doors onto the 77W would come back to bite them in
176 Post contains images joelyboy911 : Well that cargo door would presumably be a challenge that would be fairly easy to overcome/work around. More problematic, as I see it, would be filli
177 sunrisevalley : There is no challenge, NZ107 is continuing to propagate an A.Net myth. After allowing for max passenger baggage ( 13 LD 3 positions) there is space f
178 aerorobnz : 77W would be useful for SFO/YVR & HKG at many times throughout the year. I can't see NZ swapping, more taking them off V Oz in either a lease or m
179 joelyboy911 : In fairness, it still wouldn't be common to the rest of NZ's 77W fleet, would it? It may be no problem to plan for, but if there's a choice between a
180 sunrisevalley : I would think the totally different cabin layout would be a much bigger issue than pallets versus LD 6's in the rear cargo hold.
181 zkncj : It wouldn't be to much of a major problem to refit the cabin, in fact it would be easier than installing a larger cargo door. They should be able to
182 v2fix : I think it woudl very much be a rip and replace if NZ did take V Aus 77W - given the importance attached to the in cabin experience as part of the NZ
183 aerorobnz : Which are the next regos to go after NGF? I have only -NGR and apparently -NGH left to fly on to complete the entire 733 fleet in my flight log... I'
184 NZ1 : These two will be around for a few years yet. After NGF is SJE, then NGE. NZ1
185 PA515 : I agree. Air NZ can get new 77L's or 77W's at the discount negotiated at the time of the 77E order. The NZ Herald reported the discount to be 30% whe
186 Post contains links 777ER : Jetstar joining Oneworld - http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/4591...35/Jetstar-joins-Oneworld-alliance
187 zkojh : if jetstar go to oneworld - roll on Virgin Blue into Star then!! the OZ market is about to heat up a lot more...
188 zkncj : How on earth does Jetstar met the required standard to be in a airline alliance?
189 NZ6 : There must be some added value for installing a smaller cargo door though? Sounds like you have assumed there are lots of strick "requirements" It's
190 sunrisevalley : If I understand your question correctly, it is the reverse. According to the Boeing ACAP sheets the 70" door is standard and the 106" is optional. at
191 Post contains links and images haggis73 : Looks like ZK-OAB is on it's way or just about ready to leave. Still a 1st Feb arrival? http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-sto...rbus-island-hopping-its
192 NZCH : I can not mention what is exactly happening on the 9th of Feb at Wellington Airport, except to say like NZ1 has said on here, have your camera's at th
193 NZCH : I read an Air New Zealand press release, and yea arrival is Tues Feb1st, at Auckland Airport. NZCH
194 NZ1 : 3:30pm arrival time. NZ1
195 Post contains images gasman : Okay. Just completed a walk around of the new 777-300 on the "open day". Fantastic idea, and many thanks Air NZ. A few points in no particular order -
196 pewpew320 : Speaking of which, it looks like a flight I booked from CHC-AKL is going to be on it. According to the seat config maps, unless of course the current
197 Post contains links A330nz : Government may reduce NZ shareholding http://atwonline.com/international-a...government-may-reduce-its-stake-ai
198 777ER : Just a little reminder the night before would help heaps especially with ETA and ETD. Will try for photos landing and video taking off if the time in
199 NZ107 : Well you still have to bear in mind that it's only Y+ and by no means J. I've actually flown 4 hours in it and it was definitely comfortable enough f
200 gasman : 6' 3".
201 NZ107 : Right, I guess that explains it then. Did you try the window seat out and how uncomfortable was it? My estimate is that the Y+ seat can comfortably s
202 gasman : Yes it was the window seat I tried. Didn't have a chance to try the outwardly-splayed middle seats, but I suspect they would be better. I agree it's b
203 Post contains links NZ1 : Please see here for the continuation: New Zealand Aviation Thread #91 (by NZ1 Jan 28 2011 in Civil Aviation) NZ1
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