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Rumor: QF To Start SYD - DFW - BNE/SYD  
User currently offlineUnitedTristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 20154 times:

I have it on VERY good authority that QF will be operating 3 weekly services between the above city pairs starting n May!

I have to say I was kind of suprised and kinda not, with AA in DFW.

I wonder if UA will respond with IAH SYD?

-m

  

102 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinecrosswinds21 From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 699 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 20120 times:

Is this for real or an early April Fool's joke?

User currently offlinesw733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6346 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 20097 times:

SYD makes sense, but with what a/c? And I must assume via LAX/SFO...

BNE...yeah, right

I have my very serious doubts on this one.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15781 posts, RR: 27
Reply 3, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 20094 times:

I can see SYD, even though I have doubts about filling an A380 but three weekly might be doable. But I don't know about BNE unless I'm missing something.

Quoting UnitedTristar (Thread starter):
I wonder if UA will respond with IAH SYD?

No. Actually it is QF that is responding, although this has been tossed about for some time. They've already announced IAH-AKL when they get 787s. Both routes will have relatively little O&D and will be made viable by having hubs on both ends.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31119 posts, RR: 85
Reply 4, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 20093 times:
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What are they going to use as equipment? Can an A330-200HGW make the run?

When QF announced their 787 order, DFW became a logical choice because of AA - both airlines are in OneWorld and have codeshares.


User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 5, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 20095 times:

They dont have anything that can do SYD-DFW non-stop with a decent payload I dont think so it would have to go via BNE in any case I'd have thought. Even then would have to be 744/744ER and I'm not sure its workable with such a big plane. This route has 789 written all over it - i'd be very surprised if they did it before getting them, but hell, I've been wrong before.


What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineordjoe From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 718 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 20071 times:

BNE not happening, I would crap myself if SYD. It makes much more sense to just codeshare on AA metal from DFW-LAX

User currently offlinesw733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6346 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 20042 times:

The only way I can see it happening is if one of the planes that sits all day on the ground in LAX continues on to DFW, much like the JFK route

User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11752 posts, RR: 62
Reply 8, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 20016 times:

While intrigued, I'll wait for press reporting and official confirmation. Would be incredible, though - and long overdue.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 3):
I can see SYD, even though I have doubts about filling an A380 but three weekly might be doable. But I don't know about BNE unless I'm missing something.

Agreed.

DFW-SYD would be a huge winner - and link together Australia's largest network with the U.S.' second largest hub. It would open up massive amounts of new connections to cities across the U.S., and take some pressure off the massively-successful AA-QF connecting complex at LAX. I, too, believe that an A380 is quite large for the route, but at only 3-4x weekly, I think it would be completely economically doable.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 4):
What are they going to use as equipment? Can an A330-200HGW make the run?

I believe - could be wrong - that the only QF plane currently in service capable of doing this route is an A380.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15781 posts, RR: 27
Reply 9, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 19951 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 4):
Can an A330-200HGW make the run?

Not with a meaningful payload.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 4):

What are they going to use as equipment?

Gonna have to be an A380 probably if they are starting in May. Maybe a 744ER, but I don't know for sure.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 3):
I don't know about BNE unless I'm missing something.

I did miss something: the range difference. It isn't a lot, but it might make the difference. To put it into perspective, BNE-DFW is just slightly longer than DXB-LAX but flying nonstop from SYD is 280 miles longer. I don't know where the A380 production stands at this point, but with a few tweaks I think an A380 can do it. With engines that work as advertised, of course.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 5):
This route has 789 written all over it

That's what I thought too.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinejetfuel From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 2226 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 19947 times:

I would like to know what the good authority is. BNE and SYD I do not believe. And what with?
SYD-DFW is 8600 miles. I dont have performance charts but I think this would mean a maximum structural payload around 80,000kg on an A380 and really question if its on the edge of being viable.



Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19236 posts, RR: 52
Reply 11, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 19852 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 9):
BNE-DFW is just slightly longer than DXB-LAX

Not per the GCM:

BNE-DFW = 8,303 miles
DXB-LAX = 8,339 miles



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineUnited_fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7507 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 19841 times:

IIRC,QF ordered the 744ER for SYD-DFW .


'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15781 posts, RR: 27
Reply 13, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 19816 times:

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 11):
Not per the GCM:

BNE-DFW = 8,303 miles
DXB-LAX = 8,339 miles

You're right. I meant slightly shorter. Either way, the tweaked A380s Emirates wants to fly to LAX should work for QF to DFW.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offline777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3704 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 19402 times:

Quoting United_fan (Reply 12):
IIRC,QF ordered the 744ER for SYD-DFW .

Actually, I believe it was for LAX-MEL, which is a stretch for a normal 744.

I wouldn't bet against it. SYD-BNE-DFW with the A380 makes sense to me. Then again, we've been hearing this rumor for the past 5 years.



PHX based
User currently offlineyeogeo From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 883 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 19282 times:

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 11):
BNE-DFW = 8,303 miles

...and at 7215nm, would be the fifth longest regularly scheduled passenger flight in the world.
Right On! Bring it on!

yeo



Yokoso! to my world
User currently offlinecedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8143 posts, RR: 54
Reply 16, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 19187 times:

I would think they'll use the 747-400ER. The incoming A380s are freeing up 747 capacity, and that includes the ERs on the Transpacific routes.

As an aside, I saw a pic of poor old Nancy Bird at the Qantas Jetbase at SYD in a news story about the resumption of A380s to LAX. I am sure she hasn't taken to the air since the mid-air accident in November; anyone know the latest about getting her home / to Toulouse / to the great Coke Can In The Sky?



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlinemacsog6 From Singapore, joined Jan 2010, 535 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 19172 times:
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Quoting 777STL (Reply 14):
Then again, we've been hearing this rumor for the past 5 years.

Been around longer than that. When I moved to Sydney in 1998 the rumor was that non-stop DFW would soon start. I kept wondering what aircraft they were going to use, but the rumor was alive and well then.



Sixty Plus Years of Flying! "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." - Saint Ex
User currently offline777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3704 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 19094 times:

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 16):
As an aside, I saw a pic of poor old Nancy Bird at the Qantas Jetbase at SYD in a news story about the resumption of A380s to LAX. I am sure she hasn't taken to the air since the mid-air accident in November; anyone know the latest about getting her home / to Toulouse / to the great Coke Can In The Sky?

I had read somewhere that she was going to be repaired but the repairs are obviously going to be extensive, expensive and time consuming.

I didn't know she had been ferried back to SYD though, I thought she was going to be repaired in Singapore?



PHX based
User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2213 posts, RR: 15
Reply 19, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 18921 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 8):
I believe - could be wrong - that the only QF plane currently in service capable of doing this route is an A380.

Yes, but we have to remember here that Terminal D at DFW Airport is presently not capable (infrastructure-wise) of parking an A380 at one of its gates...correct me if I'm wrong.

This route will come indeed, but I think we have to hold out for the right aircraft.



next flights: jfk-icn, icn-hkg-bkk-cdg, cdg-phl-msp
User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 18896 times:

BNE-DFW - no!

SYD-DFW - right concept but no one has the right plane (8578mi from GCMap.com)

it's a perfect route for 789 or 77L. 744ER is quite a lot of plane for the route (and will still choke on the westbound), and 3x weekly is uncompetitive.

ULH on flights with minimal O&D and some function of cannibalization (Aus-SFO/LAX) just doesn't sound too smart. Upping SYD-SFO frequency or opening up either BNE-SFO or MEL-SFO makes more sense if you have idle capacity.


User currently offlinetxjim From United States of America, joined May 2008, 246 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 18807 times:

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 19):
Yes, but we have to remember here that Terminal D at DFW Airport is presently not capable (infrastructure-wise) of parking an A380 at one of its gates...correct me if I'm wrong.

Per the DFW Airport site: http://dfwairport.com/vfr2030/airfield/P1_027127.php

Quote:
The DFW Airport airfield currently accommodates scheduled service by aircraft no larger than Airplane Design Group (ADG) V. Though DFW Airport can accommodate non-scheduled ADG VI (aircraft such as the A380 or B-747-8) operations with significant restrictions, an analysis was conducted to identify the necessary measures required for ADG VI aircraft to safely and efficiently operate scheduled passenger and cargo service at DFW Airport.


User currently offlineMCO2BRS From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2007, 542 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 18576 times:

What about doing a tech stop in NAN? That would allow QF to put an A332 on the route (if indeed this is factual) presumably without payload penalty.

NAN-SYD,+DFW-SYD&MS=wls&DU=mi" target="_blank">http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=DFW-NAN-SYD,+DFW-SYD&MS=wls&DU=mi

Cheers

MCO 2 BRS


User currently offlineFRAspotter From United States of America, joined May 2004, 2357 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 18383 times:

This is the first time it's been announced with some muscle behind it, but I've heard these rumors for years. There had been talk of starting a SYD-DFW QF flight (whether direct or not) back in the mid 2000's when QF ordered their A380s... I just remember being picked up at DFW back in 2005 by my sister's boyfriend (now brother-in-law) and him mentioning that he saw an article in the newspaper talking about a potential direct DFW-Australia flight on QF when QF got their A380s... I hope these rumors become true as that would be a beautiful beast at Terminal D! 


"Drunk drivers run stop signs. Stoners wait for them to turn green."
User currently onlineSESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3489 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 18364 times:

I don't believe this rumor at all. SYD-DFW is not going to be operated nonstop, at least not in both directions. QF has no aircraft capable of operating such a route, and a tech-stop on the West bound flight would render it useless, especially at only 3 times per week. I'll believe it when a press release is put out. And a May start, that's rather soon for such a prestigious and long-awaited route to be started with absolutely no press or booking availability.

Jeremy


25 Post contains images AA777223 : That's the exact reason to start the route. OneWorld connections that have needed to happen for a while. I think only if you want to take a swim. If
26 sw733 : I mentioned this earlier but I'll bring it up again...why can't they just use one of their 744's that sit all day in the US and send one on, for examp
27 crosswinds21 : But why do this when there are something like 17 daily AA flights on LAX-DFW and since QF can't have local rights on this route? The situation with J
28 sunrisevalley : The A380 got knocked to it's knee's LAX -SYD/MEL at the loss of 2000lbs of thrust for what is ~ 7200 to 7400nm ESAD depending on the day. DFW-SYD is a
29 sw733 : Good point
30 commavia : As has been said - that would be a total waste of resources since it is much easier to just send DFW- (or DFW-beyond-)bound passengers on one of AA's
31 Post contains images tullamarine : SYD-DFW direct will not happen. There is minimal O&D traffic between the two so it could only be operated if it went via LAX and hubbed with pax a
32 Threepoint : A 332? What ongoing TPAC service does that plane serve? Presumably it does not remain in the US.
33 BMI727 : But there is a large OneWorld hub on both ends. Of course you can't fill an A380 or even a 787 with people going from Sydney to Dallas, but filling a
34 gemuser : Hugh, wasn't SOME of that runway restrictions at LAX? I've been hearing SYD-DFW with a B744ER for some months now and the current crop of rumors all
35 DJ748 : If BNE gets servies to another direct destination in America you'll see SFO coming online before DFW - even HNL and LAS has a better chance than DFW.
36 Post contains links PITrules : I believe cargo demand is a third reason as well. In fact others have stated that is why the 747 was used to JFK up until not too long ago. Ironicall
37 DavidByrne : The original plan, many, many years ago, was to operate Australia-AKL-DFW, and the announcement was made publicly that this would happen. I can't rem
38 Kent350787 : As per PP - MEL-AKL-LAX-JFK return. QF107/108
39 sunrisevalley : Yes, you are right so the comparison is probably not valid. I have never received a satisfactory explanation why LAX insisted on a particular (short)
40 ditzyboy : Actually, the aircraft ops QF141 SYD AKL Daily ex Su QF025 AKL LAX (MEL-AKL ops by JetConnect 73H) Daily QF107 LAX JFK Daily ex Tu (SYD LAX ops Daily
41 gemuser : Actually the aircraft goes SYD-AKL-LAX-JFK-LAX-AKL-SYD. It operates under 6 different flight numbers: SYD-(QF141 )-AKL- (QF25 )-LAX-(QF107)-JFK-(QF10
42 FSDan : What does ESAD stand for? Yes, but DFW-SYD would also be able to draw connecting passengers from IAH, MSP, MCI, STL, ORD, DTW, MIA, TPA, ATL, DCA, BW
43 commavia : It is going to be absolutely incredible to see a QANTAS 747 at DFW. Many of us from the Metroplex have been waiting for this moment for years. As I've
44 DIRECTFLT : Just for reference, what is the longest non-stop scheduled flight into and/or out of DFW, cargo and/or commercial ?
45 commavia : I believe it would be KE's ICN flight.
46 gdg9 : This thread, the QF DFW-SYD appears every few months... don't hold your breath.
47 Post contains images UnitedTristar : some one on that other "talk" website fliers frequent even has the schedule times now... According to Sabre: >2qf8/16may DFW 2200 BNE $ 0500 0630 S
48 aa61hvy : Not on their metal, using forwarders... So if they flew their own plane they'd have full custodial control which is another selling point.
49 mogandoCI : since QF won't be granted fifth freedom on any US domestic flights, how about a tag-on to Canada instead ? SYD-SFO-YVR MEL-LAX-YYZ etc then you can in
50 sunrisevalley : Equivalent still air distance. Basically it is the sector length x the cruise speed of the aircraft divided by the ground speed . If a aircraft has a
51 brad330 : Air India are trying to get rid of there 77L's maybey they could lease them.
52 JQflightie : you wont see this route until we get the 787's .. and i havnt heard this rumour at work for quiet a bit...
53 Post contains links PITrules : Its a wet lease agreement for the aircraft, but it is still a Qantas Freight service. It's their capacity on their schedule. http://www.qantas.com.au
54 sunrisevalley : I agree! NZ could put a 77W on SYD or MEL-AKL-IAH and carry the same load westbound as VOZ does on LAX-MEL. Seems to me when NZ get their fourth one
55 AlitaliaDC10 : I was skeptical of this being true when I first read this post this morning, however I've just checked in my Galileo GDS and it has the city pairs loa
56 AlitaliaDC10 : Just found the flights numbers! SYD-DFW is QF7 DFW-BNE-SYD is QF8 to be operated by 744 with Biz / Y+/Y.
57 Post contains images gemuser : WOW! Not excited yet, but getting close! Not to doubt you AlitaliaDC10, but mistakes can creep in from a number of sources, can anyone else with appr
58 AlitaliaDC10 : Hi Gemusre, Just also checked in Amadeus and flights are there but obviously not for sale and traffice restricted...here is the official Amadeus displ
59 gemuser : Would some one with appropriate access post the times on Sabre for QF7 on 16 May. I assume an early morning arrival. And just another tid bit: If you
60 Post contains images IndianicWorld : Very strange, but considering QF's ORD plans a number of years ago, we will just need to wait until trhe plane takes off and arrives in DFW I just can
61 SkedGuy : Here is the official Sabre display: V*QF7/16MAY« 16MAY DPTR ARVL MEALS EQP ELPD ACCUM MILES SM SYD DFW Z 125P C 150P LR 744 15.25 15.25 8748 N DEP-T
62 Post contains images tayser : testing the waters before going daily on a 787 perhaps?
63 PITrules : Correct, "direct" does not necessarily mean nonstop. This flight does indeed stop in HNL based on the map linked in reply #40, like all the other Atl
64 Zkpilot : QF has previously operated this route, it was not successful financially, but was lovely by passengers.
65 AlitaliaDC10 : Spot on Gemuser! But just found out the flight is 5 x weekly - daily except thu/sun The other rumour now circulating is that if the DFW flights def g
66 jetfuel : **returning via BNE may make sense due to head winds**
67 gemuser : That makes sense. Ok, lets look at this. There are 6 B744ERs. There are 4 routes above 6500 nm. Currently SYD-SIN-LHR is daily A380, MEL-SIN-LHR is A
68 AlitaliaDC10 : Good analysis there Gemuser. I hope SFO stays. Looked at the avail for these and all looks open only thing is F class closed so the F Class removal co
69 EK413 : When we hear it from the horses mouth then and only then I'll believe it! QF have had SYD-DFW on the cards for many years... I remember checking out
70 AlitaliaDC10 : Hi EK413, Things are pretty serious if flight schedules are loaded - I checked these myself in both Galileo and Amadeus plus other posters have also d
71 Post contains images EK413 : Hi AlitaliaDC10, With flights loaded in the system certainly sounds positive, but we havent heard the announcement? Is the service available to be pu
72 Post contains images TN486 : EK413, I am with you, However............................right now the heart is overruling the brain, GO THE QANTAS, bring it on. This is starting to
73 AlitaliaDC10 : At the moment all flights details for the QF7/QF8 have been pulled off from Amadeus - it merely states FLIGHT NOT OPERATIONAL. Will keep everyone post
74 EK413 : I'm crossing my feet if that brings any more luck!!! EK413
75 Post contains images AlitaliaDC10 : Cool - I hope it does too EK413!!
76 airbazar : What are the economics of flying a payload restricted A380 SYD-DFW? I know DFW's taxiways are limited for normal A380 operations but I really don't se
77 sw733 : Well I'll be...now I am very excited! Can't wait to get myself a seat on it.
78 smi0006 : When are the 9 744s that are being kept in the fleet being reconfigured with the new cabins? How will that impact utilisation? Has Nacy being out of a
79 Post contains links yeogeo : Well I was hoping that the route would be flown with 388, but I'll take a 744! Not to get too far ahead of the process, we still need the official ann
80 mogandoCI : HKG-JFK, at 8072 miles, is already painfully long for the 77W (alongside DXB-SFO at 8103mi) SYD-DFW is freaking 8578mi, and DFW-BNE, while only 8303mi
81 jetfuel : I am just still not convinced that its viable. With the fuel needed it will be severely load limited
82 SkedGuy : The flights are no longer visible in Sabre, either. I suspect that QF might have filed the flight records incorrectly, never intending for them to be
83 steex : This issue makes me wonder what the costs would be tech stopping westbound somewhere like NAN rather than running all the way to BNE. I understand th
84 Post contains links LoneStarMike : I read about this earlier today in the Dallas Morning News Rez systems show Qantas flights from DFW May 16 LoneStarMike
85 777STL : Based on personal experience, QF flies SYD-LAX-SYD with the RR birds quite often. I've personally flown SYD-LAX at least twice on RR 744s.
86 texan : Just got the word: look for an official announcement later this afternoon (not sure whether that is this afternoon in the U.S. or in Australia). Texan
87 yeogeo : Should read: YYZ º-HKG 6787 ACˇ/CX 77L/77W
88 mogandoCI : How many of those are already currently accessible 1-stop on AA/Eagle via SFO/LAX ? just for comparison, SQ's SIN-LAX service using only 100 seats on
89 realsim : Almost none. MSP, MCI, DTW, TPA, ATL, DCA, BWI, PHL, LGA are not flown by AA from LAX/ORD. So yes, DFW would open much more connection opportunities
90 thomasphoto60 : Well if this route actually materializes, then congrats to DFW (not easy for an IAH'er to say). Looks like DFW will beat IAH in connecting Texas to th
91 mogandoCI : technically half true JFK/EWR substitutes LGA IAD substitutes both BWI and DCA that leaves MSP, MCI, DTW, TPA, ATL, PHL, and other than KansasCity an
92 Viscount724 : What do you mean? The A330 that operates LAX-JFK-LAX doesn't sit on the ground all day at LAX. It operates SYD-AKL-LAX and continues to JFK after a s
93 sw733 : That was exactly my point - that A330, instead of sitting all day on the ground at LAX, goes to JFK and back. Besides that, I believe all of QF's pla
94 Viscount724 : I see your point. I thought you were saying that the aircraft that operated to JFK sat all day at LAX. Now clear. In any case, why operate your own a
95 sunrisevalley : From QF have set a timetable time of 16hrs westbound. This translates into an ESAD ~ 7500nm , a little more than LAX-MEL on a bad day which made the 7
96 airbazar : I think it's a lot more than bragging rights. DFW opens up a bunch of connecting opportunities that don't exist from LAX. Also strictly from an East
97 gemuser : Exactly my point. They can't let Star A get those connections first, which UA/CO/NZ are threatening to do. Gemuser
98 Zkpilot : My thoughts also... Its about stopping the *A airlines and perhaps DL from starting non-west coast flights. I don't think that they will succeed in t
99 Post contains links allrite : Qantas dumps San Francisco route, adds Dallas (Sydney Morning Herald) 3 class 747 from SYD-DFW and return via BNE.
100 gemuser : Not so much stopping Star A, but getting in first and establishing yourself in the market for when they eventually do. If the route is as successful
101 Post contains images UnitedTristar : Wow, well cafe de United Tristar will be serving crow to all you doubters this evening -m
102 Post contains links Stitch : As the rumor is now official,. there is a new thread on the actual service at It's Official - QF To DFW And Drops SFO (by AlitaliaDC10 Jan 13 2011 in
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