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New BA Long-haul Routes From Gatwick?  
User currently offline8herveg From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 1185 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 12809 times:

I wondered if BA has considered flying to HAV at all? I know VS already fly there but a bit of competition is always healthy! Perhaps a twice-weekly service from LGW with a 3-class B777?

Any other long-haul routes in the pipeline from LGW? I know SEZ has been talked about on here. What about CMB or MBA?

[Edited 2011-01-12 08:27:18]

48 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAPYu From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2007, 837 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 12723 times:

Quoting 8herveg (Thread starter):
bit of competition is always healthy!

Healthy for passengers but perhaps not for the airlines themselves.

I'm sure the idle speculation will begin, but Id expect any announcement for new winter routes to be made in March / April time for the routes to being October / November



We'd like to welcome in particular our Executive Club members and those joining us from our Oneworld alliance partners.
User currently offlinejohruk From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2008, 170 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 12673 times:

Quoting APYu (Reply 1):
Quoting 8herveg (Thread starter):
bit of competition is always healthy!

Healthy for passengers but perhaps not for the airlines themselves.

And would help with finding seats!!! It amazes me how busy the VS flights get ex LGW and when I was looking just the other day for customers to travel in March there was nothing including Upper and Premium available for what seemed a few weeks...

I guess it is a better alternative than Cubana and suspect VS hols put a lot of backsides in those seats!


User currently offlineAPYu From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2007, 837 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 12456 times:

Quoting johruk (Reply 2):
suspect VS hols put a lot of backsides in those seats!

I would imagine the route exists as a direct result of requests from Virgin Holidays to operate it.



We'd like to welcome in particular our Executive Club members and those joining us from our Oneworld alliance partners.
User currently offlineLX138 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2009, 396 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 12242 times:

Quoting 8herveg (Thread starter):
I wondered if BA has considered flying to HAV at all?

BA used to fly to HAV, I used the service. Started as a 1 x weekly service from LGW on the 777 and due to increased demand was increased to 2 x weekly (I think Sat and Wed) on the 3 class GE90 772. It was a popular flight but BA suspended the ops a few years back when they wanted to re-focus on maximising assets for profitability (along with CUN which has since returned). Since then VS have started the route and I don't think theres room for 2 UK carriers to HAV.

BA did codeshare on the IB flight via MAD for a bit but I see thats even gone now.



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User currently offlineLHRFlyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2010, 815 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 12226 times:

BA has just recruited internally for a new/reinstated role of Head of LGW which does point to a renewed focus on LGW.

User currently offline757ops From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 318 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 12151 times:

I think a once or twice weekly LGW-MBA-ZNZ service would be a good run for a BA777

User currently offlinenjdevilsin03 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 728 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 11100 times:

FLL...always wishful thinking.


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User currently offlinenavigator From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 1207 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 10469 times:

This thread is speculation but the obvious logical way to go for BA is to concentrate all routes possible to LHR. By doing that they make connections possible and make better use of their facilities there provided they have slots available. Any spreading of huboperations to more than one airport likein this case both LHR and LGW is bad economy for airlines. Transfer possibilities are of great importance for all airlines. Any longhaul route hanging lose from the rest of the huboperation is obviously not desirable from any financial, traffic or market views. That lose route is not available for transfer passengers coming in from a majority af BA routes at LHR without too long transfers between airports.


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User currently offlineLGW340 From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 315 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 10467 times:

Don't forget that Cubana also serve LGW from HAV every wednesday


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User currently offline8herveg From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 1185 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 10341 times:

Quoting LGW340 (Reply 9):
Don't forget that Cubana also serve LGW from HAV every wednesday

Which aircraft do they use for this? Didn't they charter or lease a numer of different types of aircraft for a while to operate the route?


User currently offlineLGWGate49 From Sudan, joined Nov 2009, 138 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 10118 times:

Quoting 8herveg (Reply 10):
Which aircraft do they use for this?

Still a Ilyushin Il-96 according to OAG.


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User currently offlineplanesarecool From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 4121 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 10019 times:

Quoting navigator (Reply 8):
This thread is speculation but the obvious logical way to go for BA is to concentrate all routes possible to LHR. By doing that they make connections possible and make better use of their facilities there provided they have slots available. Any spreading of huboperations to more than one airport likein this case both LHR and LGW is bad economy for airlines. Transfer possibilities are of great importance for all airlines. Any longhaul route hanging lose from the rest of the huboperation is obviously not desirable from any financial, traffic or market views. That lose route is not available for transfer passengers coming in from a majority af BA routes at LHR without too long transfers between airports.

The destinations served from Gatwick are point to point leisure routes that don't rely on connections. Therefore there's no need to use valuable slots for routes that will be just as successful, if not more so, from Gatwick.

Not everything in London revolves around Heathrow.


User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3238 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 9965 times:

Quoting planesarecool (Reply 12):
but the obvious logical way to go for BA is to concentrate all routes possible to LHR

That's right and in the ideal world they would. Except there isn't room for 7-8 more B777 rotations in the times they would need without killing something else. Rather busy place is Heathrow, indeed T5 isn't even big enough for what BA currently have, so I would imagine they would be joining the A320s in Terrible 3.

Hmmm North Terminal at Gatters versus T3 at Heathrow.....


User currently offlinenavigator From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 1207 posts, RR: 14
Reply 14, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 9934 times:

Quoting planesarecool (Reply 12):
The destinations served from Gatwick are point to point leisure routes that don't rely on connections. Therefore there's no need to use valuable slots for routes that will be just as successful, if not more so, from Gatwick.

Well now this could be because they hang loose.You have virtually no incoming connections at LGW which is bad for BA but not for charter and leisure airlines operating point to point as you say. And such routes you are discribing are often low yield routes. I would assume that if BA had any say in this they would prefere to locate the route to LHR provided it does not use up slots necessary for routes with priority in the system. The transfer passengers you get by putting the route at Heathrow could be the difference between making the route economical or not.



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User currently offlineAPYu From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2007, 837 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 9823 times:

Quoting LHRFlyer (Reply 5):
BA has just recruited internally for a new/reinstated role of Head of LGW which does point to a renewed focus on LGW.

It could also point to the fact that they want to make it more standalone and easier to sell off.



We'd like to welcome in particular our Executive Club members and those joining us from our Oneworld alliance partners.
User currently offlineplanesarecool From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 4121 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 9707 times:

Quoting navigator (Reply 14):
The transfer passengers you get by putting the route at Heathrow could be the difference between making the route economical or not.

But the routes operated from Gatwick survive (and are profitable) without the need for connecting passengers, aside from those who connect from the UK regions, and there is adequate feed from the regions at Gatwick, more so in fact than LHR if you include FlyBE's routes.

Even if these routes did need connecting passengers, there isn't a complete lack of feed at Gatwick. BA still have 19 short haul aircraft based there, and many of the routes are timed to allow for connections onto the long haul services if need be.


User currently offlineAPYu From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2007, 837 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 9652 times:

Quoting planesarecool (Reply 16):
many of the routes are timed to allow for connections onto the long haul services if need be.

But not necessarily the other way which has an impact



We'd like to welcome in particular our Executive Club members and those joining us from our Oneworld alliance partners.
User currently offlineLazialeMKD From French Polynesia, joined Oct 2009, 150 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 9627 times:

I am often connecting through LGW for my journeys to MCO, using MA from SKP through BUD, then BA all the way to MCO. There are more then enough connections through LGW too, and as someone else said it's much more oriented on leisure passengers, as I noticed, whole families are traveling mostly going on vacations.

User currently offlineplanesarecool From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 4121 posts, RR: 11
Reply 19, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 9552 times:

Quoting APYu (Reply 17):

But not necessarily the other way which has an impact

But as has been said, the BA routes from Gatwick do not require feed from outside the UK. There are more than enough people in London and the UK to fill eight 777s to the Caribbean and Florida every day, as they do.


User currently onlinenclmedic From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 342 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 9076 times:

Quoting 757ops (Reply 6):
I think a once or twice weekly LGW-MBA-ZNZ service would be a good run for a BA777

I completely agree and was in fact considering this but yesterday! Am spending Christmas in MBA family this summer and was shocked that there are no direct scheduled flights from the UK. Just ZB, BY charters etc. The only real alternative is flying through NBO with KQ which is a hit and miss experience. Even if it was just a winter schedule for BA, I'm sure this one would fly (as it were).

And a tack on to ZNZ would be great. Just a shame this previously unspoiled/off-the-beaten-track airport now has a massive runway and thus the obligatory bucket-and-spade crowd  


User currently onlinenclmedic From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 342 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 9056 times:

Quoting nclmedic (Reply 20):
Am spending Christmas in MBA family this summer

Just realised this typo!


User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3238 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 8864 times:

Quoting navigator (Reply 14):
And such routes you are discribing are often low yield routes.

Um...BA LGW long haul is most certainly not low yield, with perhaps Sharm-el_SHARK being the exception and I don't see that lasting for obvious reasons. Conventional wisdom here is wrong.


User currently offlinerobso2 From Switzerland, joined Jun 2010, 218 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 8499 times:

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 22):
Um...BA LGW long haul is most certainly not low yield

not low yield as they are leisure destinations but less profitable than operations from LHR shown by the fact that they operate 3 class 777s as opposed to 4 class 777's which mainly operate from LHR (with some exceptions)



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User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3238 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 8475 times:

Actually LHR has a pile of three class triples and LGW also has the four class on the BGI run.

25 APYu : Club Fares from LGW are often quite cheap which would suggest a lower yield that the routes operated 'up the road'
26 BA174 : HKT and FLL have been rumoured for some time whether anything becomes of them or not is another story.
27 johruk : Primarily because you are selling to a leisure market. if you look at any of the Caribbean operators they will have an upsell supplement for Club / F
28 APYu : The service should be the same, but you are correct that the cost base at LGW is lower which makes them good money spinners
29 sam1987 : I would guess that is likely to change slightly with the new agreements with AA and IB. I wouldn't be surprised to see LGW to JFK and MIA open again
30 FlyCaledonian : If LGW-JFK did return it wouldn't surprise me to see it on an AA 757. I gather that when BA reinstated the route a couple of years ago loads were lig
31 trintocan : BDA also sees 4-class 777s from LGW and soon UVF and POS will too. BGI is a massive market for BA and they have had at least daily flights for many y
32 Viscount724 : A twice-weekly longhaul service is very inefficient in terms of crew utilization. You have an entire crew spending 3 or 4 nights of unproductive time
33 Post contains links LHRFlyer : In terms of costs at LGW vs LHR, these figures from BA's Investor Day presentation give an indication of the difference for cabin crew: LHR Worldwide
34 skipness1E : And the LGW-JFK thread rises from the dead again...... If you think BHX has trouble attracting connections to the US imagine what problems Gatwick ha
35 A340600 : 3 class aircraft don't necessarily mean less profitability. The real money maker for BA is J not F by quite a degree. This is now indeed the case, bu
36 757ops : ET have a great 6x weekly LHR-ADD service with driect connections to/from ZNZ
37 anstar : VS seem to do quite well on the route with their twice weekly frequency and 3 class cabins.
38 sam1987 : The Joint Business between BA, IB and AA has suddenly made a whole host of new routes feasible again. I still think LGW to JFK could restart soon, pr
39 Post contains images A340600 : Re-read my original post, I realise compliments are now the same. The initial catering changes were a direct reaction to reduced crew compliments on
40 Viscount724 : I believe VS crew costs (salaries) are significantly lower than BA's
41 skipness1E : What are you basing this on? BA and AA with ATI are introducing an hourly shuttle from LHR and yet you still think they want to fly from LGW? Have Am
42 AirNZ : No, not quite at all and there are a very substantial number of passenger movements not related in the slightest to Virgin Holidays, and LGW-HAV is m
43 sam1987 : The new Joint Business. I believe we're going to see growth in the UK from all three airlines: - New BA flights from LHR/LGW to the USA and Spain - N
44 USAirALB : Yet DL is still doing LGW alongside LHR from ATL. And LGW is going strong from CLT on US. Though I think the latter has some business ties close to L
45 planesailing : With DL11 often being overbooked. It has deep routes in the history of LGW which is why DL kept the route following moving to LHR. Passenger figures
46 scrappy27 : VS crew costs are highly likely to be significantly lower than BA's crew on all routes..... so the point is???
47 LHRFlyer : I agree with the first point in part, and the third. I think we will see the return of LG-MAD and more routes from LHR to the US when the 787s arrive
48 Viscount724 : The point was that if their costs are lower than BA, but fares are no doubt very similar, they can operate a twice-weekly service more profitably tha
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