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Controller Purposely Changes Data Tag - PHX  
User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5753 posts, RR: 6
Posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 10702 times:

Apparently, back in December, a controller purposely (according to the FAA) changed the data tag for US Airways Flight 192 MCO-PHX, from AWE192 to AWE129. Thankfully, it appears the controller was caught, and could possibly face criminal charges.


IMO, he should be charged with one count of attempted murder for every single person aboard. Absolutely disgusting, and kudos to the pilot for recognizing the situation.

Link:
http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/local_...-put-pilots-and-passengers-at-risk

[Edited 2011-01-14 22:48:56]


"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
54 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinetymnbalewne From Bermuda, joined Mar 2005, 953 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 10671 times:

I wonder what the controller's motive was. 'though this does have the makings of a good plot to a book or movie!


Dewmanair...begins with Dew
User currently offlinestlAV8R From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 114 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 10508 times:

Quoting tymnbalewne (Reply 1):
I wonder what the controller's motive was. 'though this does have the makings of a good plot to a book or movie!

It goes back to the old saying..."To smart for your own good!". That controller was probably bored and because he thought it would be funny to see others confused and probably have to go to him for help. This is despicable.


User currently offlinejetboy757 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 53 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 10329 times:

There is no doubt that the controllers actions were irresponsible, but to scare the public and to compare this to "bumper cars" is totally irresponsible. This situation would be no different than a loss comm situation, which happens ALL the time. You just make sure the other planes aren't a factor for the one plane that you aren't in contact with. And again I do agree the controller should be punished.

User currently offlinerolfen From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 1809 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 10196 times:

I don't know if this is the case here but I seems to have witnessed several incidents where people have failed to correctly differentiate between an acceptable joke and a serious offense. Maybe some persons have difficulty in making that distinction.


rolf
User currently offlinePapaChuck From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 136 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 9836 times:

I smell something fishy here.

First of all, intentionally changing an aircraft callsign isn't always a bad thing. Check out this thread from tech/ops a while back for further discussion. However, I doubt that was the case here.

I'll go out on a limb here, but I have a feeling this was a hiccup in the automation between the center and approach control. For some reason, the flight plan wouldn't pass to approach and the approach controller had to enter their own information on the flight into the computer. For whatever reason, the callsign was entered incorrectly and the error wasn't detected until the next controller attempted to contact AWE192. From there, the flight plan was fixed and everyone went along their merry way.

Now for the big question: Does a keyboard error that was corrected by the next controller mandate termination of employment and criminal prosecution? If so, then throw me and every other controller in the slammer because we've all fat-fingered keyboard entries from time to time. Sure, we're supposed to get it right every time, but mistakes happen and either we catch them or the next guy does. Such is the nature of the game.

Also, should we be trusting anything the media says about ATC? Let's face it, they typically haven't got a clue what they're talking about when it comes to anything ATC/aviation related. I can guarantee you that we're not getting the whole story here. Is it possible that a disgruntled controller did this intentionally? Sure, but the scenario mentioned above is one of about a dozen I can come with that are much more plausable.

Just my   

PC



In-trail spacing is a team effort.
User currently offlineb757lvr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 69 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 9754 times:

Quoting PapaChuck (Reply 5):


Well said !!   


User currently offlineDTWAGENT From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1283 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 9654 times:

I don't know much about the workings of ATC. But, I do think that pressing charges to this controler is a little much.
If they determine that he/she did this on purpose. Then I think they should be fired. However, I agree with Papachuck.
Everyone makes mistakes. However, if this person is making this mistake all the time. Then they should be terminated.

We are not getting the full story here. And the new media can not tell a cessna from a B737. So I tend not to believe alot of things they report when it come to avation in general.

Chuck


User currently offlineFly2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 9607 times:

Quoting PapaChuck (Reply 5):
I smell something fishy here.

Me too. Sounds like the typical sensationalistic media report. "Purposely changed it" does not mean anything. It does not mean he WANTED to kill people (and lets get serious here, just changing a flight number will not make a plane magically explode).

My guess is he brain-farted, or is dyslexic, and he wrote the number wrong. Whoop-de-doo. Controllers have done it to me several times.


User currently offlineairbuster From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 454 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 9563 times:

ohw come on!!! what a hero the pilot is for being alert, it's not as if he did a miracle:

"AWE 129, phoenix center how do you read"

"uhh Center are you calling AWE 192?"

happens every day every where.....it's called call sign confusion mixed with media sensationalism .



FLY FOKKER JET LINE!
User currently offlinerolfen From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 1809 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 9328 times:

I wonder how they came to the conclusion that he "intentionally" did it. Short from the controller confessing (and why the hell would he do this...), is there any other way to come to this conclusion?


rolf
User currently offlineJBirdAV8r From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 4491 posts, RR: 21
Reply 11, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 9281 times:

I get called everything but my callsign because it's not the easiest to say. That part is commonplace.

Quoting airbuster (Reply 9):
"AWE 129, phoenix center how do you read"

"uhh Center are you calling AWE 192?"

happens every day every where.....it's called call sign confusion

As is that.

What's not great, though, is that according to the article the FAA found that a controller transposed the numbers on purpose. His intentions are obviously up to debate.

Quoting Maverick623 (Thread starter):
IMO, he should be charged with one count of attempted murder for every single person aboard.

Ay caramba!  Wow! Geez. It wasn't that bad.



I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
User currently offlineanshuk From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2009, 486 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 9237 times:

If a controller wanted to cause widespread destruction or murder everyone on board a plane, I can think of a MILLION worse things he could do than change a call sign ...

User currently offlineaa43e From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 68 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 8824 times:

Quoting PapaChuck (Reply 5):
Now for the big question: Does a keyboard error that was corrected by the next controller mandate termination of employment and criminal prosecution?

Well said PC!    This society of ours seems predisposed toward over reaction and sensationalism. That and we're top heavy with pot stirrers!


User currently offlinejustindpilot From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 8529 times:

Without naming sources.. The news was right it was intentional, a prank one coworker played on another co-worker. The flight was never in danger but public preception is all that matters here. Professional, no not at all.. Criminal charges are ridiculous but some sort of administrative discipline will happen, most likely termination.

User currently offlinercair1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 1357 posts, RR: 52
Reply 15, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 8431 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CUSTOMER SERVICE & SUPPORT

Quoting aa43e (Reply 13):
Well said PC!    This society of ours seems predisposed toward over reaction and sensationalism. That and we're top heavy with pot stirrers!

And there must always be somebody punished, publicly.
Unless of course it is a really heinous crime, in which case it is somebody else's fault, not the criminals
And, the punishment often inversely related to the seriosity.

Unless this ATC has a history of incompetence - termination is way too big a deal.



rcair1
User currently offlineUAL747DEN From United States of America, joined exactly 11 years ago today! , 2392 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 8155 times:

Quoting Maverick623 (Thread starter):
IMO, he should be charged with one count of attempted murder for every single person aboard. Absolutely disgusting, and kudos to the pilot for recognizing the situation

Are you kidding, you know nothing about the facts and why this really happened and you are ready to charge this guy with murder!!!!! Your comments are completely irrational and not justified in any way.

Earlier today I was in a hurry and was speeding along the interstate at about 95mph, I guess technically I could have killed someone if a whole series of things has went wrong so maybe you would want to charge me with murder? BEWARE people in the South Denver metro area, I'm about to leave for Park Meadows Mall to get a pair of socks, I know without a doubt I will be speeding, or attempting murder!!!!!

Lets just try to be a little more rational!



/// UNITED AIRLINES
User currently offlineBooDog From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 258 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 8135 times:

Quoting anshuk (Reply 12):
If a controller wanted to cause widespread destruction or murder everyone on board a plane, I can think of a MILLION worse things he could do than change a call sign ...

Exactly.

[Edited 2011-01-15 14:10:16]


B1B - best looking aircraft ever.
User currently offlineGoBoeing From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 2727 posts, RR: 15
Reply 18, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7672 times:

Put lives on the line?

Are they for real?

Two digits of a callsign being flipped around does not put lives on the line in this particular scenario.

A goofy event, for sure, but really not that big of a deal. I can't imagine why any controller would intentionally do this, and I think there is more to the story as well.


User currently offlinejustindpilot From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7615 times:

Quoting GoBoeing (Reply 18):
I can't imagine why any controller would intentionally do this, and I think there is more to the story as well.


Because they thought it was funny to confuse his coworker.


User currently offlineGoBoeing From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 2727 posts, RR: 15
Reply 20, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7568 times:

Quoting justindpilot (Reply 19):
Because they thought it was funny to confuse his coworker.

That is the only logical explanation but I still just have a hard time believing it, unless this guy or girl is just REALLY dumb.


User currently offlineqantasguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 164 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7544 times:

Hmmmmm, I'm dyslexic, and know how easy it is to read and re-read numbers wrong. What should be up for evaluation is the fact that he may have a problem reading/repeating numbers in the wrong order - not something ideal for this profession. If it's an isolated case, chalk it up to being human, if it's a deeper problem, lets help the guy, not fire him. I can't imagine he's out to do any malice. The news outlets are most likely getting it wrong. I'm in the media, and know how much we screw it up sometimes. I wish I was part of aviation reporting, I'd clean it up a lot  

Cheers.



Airplanes Flown on..B-727-100, B-727-200, DC-9, F-27, B-707, B-717, B-737, B-747SP, B-747-100, B-747-200, B-747-300, B74
User currently offlinejustindpilot From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 7437 times:

Quoting qantasguy (Reply 21):
Hmmmmm, I'm dyslexic, and know how easy it is to read and re-read numbers wrong. What should be up for evaluation is the fact that he may have a problem reading/repeating numbers in the wrong order - not something ideal for this profession. If it's an isolated case, chalk it up to being human, if it's a deeper problem, lets help the guy, not fire him. I can't imagine he's out to do any malice. The news outlets are most likely getting it wrong. I'm in the media, and know how much we screw it up sometimes. I wish I was part of aviation reporting, I'd clean it up a lot

Cheers.

The controller working the flight read the callsign just fine off the tag. He was not the controller in trouble. The controller working another sector that modified a data tag to an incorrect callsign in someone else's control is the one in hot water.


User currently offlineGoblin211 From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1209 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 7263 times:

Papachuck knows what's up!!! this story is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over exaggerated. if it were made into a book or movie no one would see it!


From the airport with love
User currently onlineLTC8K6 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1224 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 7004 times:

If an incident resulted from the wrong call sign, and people were killed, I believe the charge would be negligent homicide.

Same for speeding 95mph, if you kill someone.


25 tb727 : This made the news? Must have been a reallllly slow news day.
26 justindpilot : If that was the reason for an incident there would be many many more contributing factors like the conflicting aircraft losing it's radio as well, th
27 pliersinsight : 1. Negligence: Didn't see the car next to you when you changed lanes. Somedbody dies. Whoops. (Probation - short jail) 2. Recklessness: Driving 95mph
28 TrnsWrld : Please tell me your joking. First off as said your going to believe what the media said? Im a controller and we have to change callsigns all the time
29 Post contains images COS777 : I have FlightAware set to send me a text message and email whenever the airplane I fly files a flight plan (the best part being that I get the ATC rou
30 Maverick623 : Maybe you guys should read the article first. THE CONTROLLER INTENTIONALLY CHANGED THE DATA TAG. THERE WAS NO MISTAKE. Obviously not, but just anothe
31 GoBoeing : No, I don't think it put any lives on the line at all. Yes I have read ASRS reports. I have been on two different ASAP committees and read plenty of
32 NBGSkyGod : So by your rationale, every controller who has an Operatoinal Error should then be taken out of the room in handcuffs and charged with attempted murd
33 Airvan00 : I wouldn't put that in CAPITALS. You can't unintentionally change a data tag. If it was with malicious intent, he has a problem. It's not that a big
34 PapaChuck : Okay, for the sake of argument, let's assume that this was indeed a prank played by another controller. The more I ponder this, the less absurd it sou
35 NBGSkyGod : I agree with that, I can only imagine what knee-jerk reaction the agency will come up with this time. If I had to guess on that, probably won't be al
36 Post contains images moose135 : Maybe if the controller brought his kid into the tower, and the kid changed the info...
37 Post contains images Fly2HMO : Oh boy here we go Yes. And? A BIT?!?! Talk about turning what is most likely a brain fart, or a prank at worse, on the controllers behalf into an apo
38 Post contains images je89_w : Someone's also overreacting a bit, eh?
39 Post contains images Fly2HMO : Underreacting, if anything.
40 Post contains images PapaChuck : Has not this entire thread been a host of overreactions (myself included) to the original overreaction? Perhaps an underreaction or two would do us so
41 FX1816 : There is no saying it was a controller from another sector. It quite possibly was the D-side or the handoff person that works next to the R-side. The
42 KELPkid : The only way I could see this being potentially dangerous is if AWE129 and AWE192 were in the air at the same time...
43 Post contains images FX1816 : Bingo!! FX1816
44 Bennett123 : Assuming that it was deliberate, he should be sacked. Working in ATC must be stressful enough without this sort of stupidity. For those who think a sl
45 Post contains images wn676 : The sole act of transposing a call-sign may not in itself cause a major problem, but combined with a few other things may eventually lead to one. The
46 Post contains images KELPkid : Just out of curiousity... Where are flight data strips for airline flights actually hand keyed? I thought in these days of ACARS and automation, the f
47 PapaChuck : Flight progress strips are rarely used anymore. Some facilities may still use flight strips, but the high level of automation has all but eliminated t
48 P3Orion : At ORD ATCT they are worth their weight in gold.
49 FX1816 : That's all we deal with at E10. You can still get a strip on an aircraft that has to be manually handed off/entered. It happens here on occasion with
50 Bennett123 : The point that I was making was the aircraft essentially crashed because the crew were busy dealing with a lesser issue. If a controller is distracted
51 413X3 : Reckless driving and manslaughter if you did indeed kill someone, absolutely no reason to go that fast...
52 dsuairptman : As usual the all style no substance media needs to make news, not report it. And they can't make news without somebody being hung, drawn and quarted i
53 FX1816 : If a controller is distracted by an aircraft that suddenly appears then they shouldn't be a controller at all. I mean we get many VFR pop ups looking
54 Maverick623 : Oh dear... that's the last time I drink before starting a thread. Apologies to everyone who took me seriously with the whole attempted murder thing. I
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