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Will CX Restart HKG-ZRH?  
User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9107 posts, RR: 15
Posted (3 years 3 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 5494 times:

Any news regarding CX restarting HKG-ZRH? Zurich is a popular destination and I wonder why they dropped it at the first place (When was that?)

27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCX Flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6533 posts, RR: 55
Reply 1, posted (3 years 3 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5360 times:

Someone from here said there was a rumour about HKG-ZRH-MAN but I've not heard anything from internal sources.

User currently offlineLAX888 From Singapore, joined Oct 2010, 277 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 3 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 5017 times:

That would be really cool if they would restart ZRH! It seems that the LX flight is constantly sold out and prices are horrendous. Also then I can finally fly CX from ZRH again instead of transiting in MXP, LHR, AMS, FRA etc.

keeping my fingers crossed!!!


User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9107 posts, RR: 15
Reply 3, posted (3 years 3 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 5014 times:

When/why did they cut it at the first place?

User currently offlineZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5564 posts, RR: 37
Reply 4, posted (3 years 3 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4974 times:

Quoting United Airline (Reply 3):
When/why did they cut it at the first place?

I remember very well the CX birds here in Zurich. I am not really sure when they stopped. It was either after 9/11 or while the Asian economy crises. ZRH is of course not a primary CX destination because it is a very strong Star Alliance hub and not OneWorld.


User currently offlinedanfearn77 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2008, 1807 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (3 years 3 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4931 times:

Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 1):

I'm not sure where that rumour started but it has been around these lt few weeks. HKG-ZRH-MAN to be operated by a 77W from October apparently. Some are saying it's a matter of time until it's announced.



Eagles may soar high, but weasels dont get sucked into jet engines!
User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (3 years 3 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4810 times:

Quoting ZRH" class="quote" target="_blank">ZRH (Reply 4):
ZRH is of course not a primary CX destination because it is a very strong Star Alliance hub and not OneWorld.

CX's long haul strategies are O&D oriented - they also serve MXP, FCO, AMS, and CDG - none of which are major oneworld hubs


User currently offlinehuaiwei From Singapore, joined Oct 2008, 1099 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (3 years 3 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4567 times:

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 6):
CX's long haul strategies are O&D oriented

Really? You seriously believe those multiple daily flights to LHR are majority O&D, for instance?



It's huaiwei...not huawei. I have nothing to do with the PRC! :)
User currently offlineflyingalex From Germany, joined Jul 2010, 1013 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 3 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4529 times:

Quoting huaiwei (Reply 7):

Really? You seriously believe those multiple daily flights to LHR are majority O&D, for instance?

No, their HKG-LHR schedule is not solely about O&D. However, the O&D demand between Hong Kong and London is huge. Flights on that route would be at least twice daily, if not more, even if LHR were not a (or maybe the?) oneworld hub.

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 6):
CX's long haul strategies are O&D oriented - they also serve MXP, FCO, AMS, and CDG - none of which are major oneworld hubs

Mogando's point is a good one. CX is very good at making spokes work for them.



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User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (3 years 3 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4512 times:

Quoting huaiwei (Reply 7):

Really? You seriously believe those multiple daily flights to LHR are majority O&D, for instance?

i wouldn't say that, but Cathay's O&D ratio is probably higher than most other carriers. Cathay also enjoys very high loyalty among local citizens - they're frequently willing to pay a premium over foreign rivals. That itself helps drive O&D ratio.

And don't forget that HKG was a former British colony, so multiple flights back to "motherland" is very reasonable. Same reason that MAD doesn't register on a lot of people's radar (only nonstops to east Asia are PEK and ICN), yet you have a trillion frequencies from SouthAmerica into MAD (and probably more than SouthAmerica to LHR)


User currently offlinehuaiwei From Singapore, joined Oct 2008, 1099 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (3 years 3 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4450 times:

Quoting flyingalex (Reply 8):
However, the O&D demand between Hong Kong and London is huge.

Data?

Quoting flyingalex (Reply 8):

Mogando's point is a good one. CX is very good at making spokes work for them.

Which would suggest that they are still part of a hub-and-spoke network, doesn't it? 
Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 9):
Cathay also enjoys very high loyalty among local citizens - they're frequently willing to pay a premium over foreign rivals. That itself helps drive O&D ratio.

You can say this for just about any Asian carrier, including even the horrid Chinese ones. But this still does not imply higher O&D automatically. How many of HK's 8 million residents actually travel that frequently in a year?

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 9):
And don't forget that HKG was a former British colony, so multiple flights back to "motherland" is very reasonable.

As I have said many many times, A.netters seriously need to stop this "old motherland" theory or the "there is a huge XXX ethnic group in one location so there must be a flight back to their ethnic motherland" theory. For every supposed "motherland" flight, there are tonnes others which buck the trend. Why is there not even a single flight by BA to KUL, a far bigger market and former British colony, for one?

If your point is that there are lots of HK-British business dealings, then fine, I do think that is still a reasonable argument. But again, does this truly fuel over 50% of the traffic between the two cities?

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 9):
Same reason that MAD doesn't register on a lot of people's radar (only nonstops to east Asia are PEK and ICN), yet you have a trillion frequencies from SouthAmerica into MAD (and probably more than SouthAmerica to LHR)

So where's the trillion frequencies between India and LHR, when the Indian market is also multiple times bigger than the entirety of the Americas combined?

Let's analyse HK's economic situation a little more, and the answer will be clear. There has been claims that HK's port is largely "O&D" (as compared to Singapore's port being largely transshipment), for example, but the reality is that a huge chunk of that "O&D" stuff are being carried onwards over land into Southern China which is the real giant factory and market place of the global economy. And this reality finally became nearly a nightmare when ports began to open in Southern China. Traffic through HK began to slump and are the maritime business is now considered a sunset industry there.

We have yet to see this replicated in the airline industry, but the HK government is not resting on its laurels. They do recognise the potential threat especially if CAN grows into a viable global air hub and are doing many things to ensure HKG stays up there. So far, they have been fairly successful, but to say that HK's current growth is primarily O&D, and to claim its long-haul routes survive mainly on O&D too without significant reliance on the Southern Chinese, Taiwanese, Southeast Asian or Oceanian markets is just untenable unless proven otherwise by reliable data.



It's huaiwei...not huawei. I have nothing to do with the PRC! :)
User currently offlineoly720man From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 6604 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (3 years 3 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4192 times:

Quoting ZRH (Reply 4):
I am not really sure when they stopped.

End of April 2001 according to the photo comment here


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © PixAir




wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
User currently offlineknightsofmalta From Malta, joined Nov 2005, 1692 posts, RR: 18
Reply 12, posted (3 years 3 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4111 times:

It was all very strange how CX withdrew from ZRH. Initially they operated the B. 747-400 to ZRH, which then continued to MAN. Then I think they axed the add on and downsized to an A. 340. Then they started reducing the frequency and eventually they axed the route completely. At the time they said it was because they needed the a/c to start flights to India. But in actual fact I think it was simply that they weren't making any money on the Zurich route, despite the fact that their SLF was rather high.

User currently offlineCX288 From Germany, joined Jan 2008, 142 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 3 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3994 times:

AFAIR, CX at one stage operated HKG-FRA-ZRH-FRA-HKG with B-742, and later on HKG-ZRH-FCO-ZRH-HKG and HKG-ZRH-MAN-ZRH-HKG with B-742 before switching to the A-343 turnaround operations.

User currently offlineoly720man From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 6604 posts, RR: 11
Reply 14, posted (3 years 3 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3956 times:

Quoting CX288 (Reply 13):
HKG-ZRH-MAN-ZRH-HKG with B-742

MAN had the B744 via AMS, FRA and CDG on different days. Towards the end, the service went to an A343, but I can't remember which route it took



wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
User currently offlineLX138 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2009, 386 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (3 years 3 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3884 times:

Quoting United Airline (Thread starter):
Any news regarding CX restarting HKG-ZRH?

I think the main reason was that it does indeed have a low O&D market (in both directions) and that has often been a forte for CX as said above.

Quoting huaiwei (Reply 10):
As I have said many many times, A.netters seriously need to stop this "old motherland" theory or the "there is a huge XXX ethnic group in one location so there must be a flight back to their ethnic motherland" theory. For every supposed "motherland" flight, there are tonnes others which buck the trend. Why is there not even a single flight by BA to KUL, a far bigger market and former British colony, for one?

The original statement there was perfectly plausible, there is indeed a large UK Chinese community and there has been a lot of marketing by CX to these communities (events sponsorship at CNY etc.)
BA don't do the KUL flight because they obviously feel its not high enough yield for them, but please let me know how KUL is a 'far bigger market' than HKG?

Quoting huaiwei (Reply 10):
So where's the trillion frequencies between India and LHR, when the Indian market is also multiple times bigger than the entirety of the Americas combined?

Well last time I looked there was a pretty comprehensive schedule between between LHR-India. I doubt any other single European city comes close to the number and capacity of flights.



StarWorld Team - The ultimate airline alliance
User currently offlinetrex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 4494 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (3 years 3 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3825 times:
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Quoting huaiwei (Reply 10):
. Why is there not even a single flight by BA to KUL, a far bigger market and former British colony, for one?

How about the per capita GDP in HK is 3x that of Malaysia and so you would expect more people with the money to be able to fly??


User currently offlineoly720man From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 6604 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (3 years 3 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3566 times:

To add to the history

Quoting CX288 (Reply 13):
Quoting oly720man (Reply 14):

The Manchester September '98 timetable has

CX290 Sun, Tue, Thur, A343 via ZRH, dep 10.15
CX270 Mon, Wed, Fri, Sat B744 via AMS, dep 11.00

By the summer of '99 the CX290 had gone to be replaced by

CX270 B744 via CDG, dep 10.00



wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5225 posts, RR: 25
Reply 18, posted (3 years 3 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3536 times:

Quoting huaiwei (Reply 10):
Data?

You're seriously requesting a source to prove that there is a huge amount of O/D between London and Hong Kong? Do you really think that 5 airlines (BA, CX, VS, NZ, and QF) for the fun of it?



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9107 posts, RR: 15
Reply 19, posted (3 years 3 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3453 times:

HKG is obviously a much bigger hub than KUL and SIN. And yes Hong Kong was a British colony and it is still closely tided with the UK. Lots of Hong Kong people residing in the UK and lots of Hong Kong people in Hong Kong hold UK passports. And business/leisure activities between the UK and Hong Kong are strong. I believe Hong Kong was influenced by the British more than Malaysia was. Afterall the handover took place only 13.5 years ago.

But I don't see why HKG-ZRH was removed


User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (3 years 3 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3402 times:

HongKong's GDP per capita (ppp) is #7 according to IMF - ahead of Switzerland. If that's not sufficient reason to explain their ability to afford travel I don't know what is (and bear in mind that HKG's numbers are not skewed by natural resources like Qatar)

but i'm still surprised CX doesn't operate HKG-ZRH, considering both are major financial hubs - can't they even throw some A343 at it ?


User currently offline6thfreedom From Bermuda, joined Sep 2004, 3314 posts, RR: 20
Reply 21, posted (3 years 3 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3366 times:

Quoting huaiwei (Reply 10):
Quoting flyingalex (Reply 8):
However, the O&D demand between Hong Kong and London is huge.

Data?

2010 OD pax LHR-HKG two ways = 804148

2010 CX OD pax LHR-HKG two ways = 375523

CX 2010 capacity ~1,052,651

so....

CX has over 40% market share of OD pax on the sector, with about 35% seat utlisation by OD pax.

seems high to me!


User currently offlineLAX888 From Singapore, joined Oct 2010, 277 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 3 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3281 times:

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 20):
but i'm still surprised CX doesn't operate HKG-ZRH, considering both are major financial hubs - can't they even throw some A343 at it ?

The problem is that the A343 of CX only have 26 C class seats and LX the main competitor has 8 F class and 45 C Class seats. So I don't think CX can make that much money with the A343 on this route. Also CX has 257 Y seats on their A343, they probably would have to sell them at very cheap prices to fill them.

I really don't understand why they only put 26 C class seats in the A343. I can somewhat understand that they took out F class but then they should have increased the C class cabin like on the A333 which has 41 seats.

I think it would be great if they could use the 773ER with continuation to MAN. Something has to be done to break the monopoly of LX. Even during low season their cheapest Y class sells for 1300 USD and their C class for 5400 USD which is crazy considering you can get tickets for 700-800 USD in Y or 4'000 USD in C.


User currently offlineLX138 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2009, 386 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (3 years 3 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3067 times:

Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 21):
CX has over 40% market share of OD pax on the sector, with about 35% seat utlisation by OD pax.

seems high to me!

Yep, good stats.

I think it is safe to say that everyone is flying on the LX138/139 then!?

LX138



StarWorld Team - The ultimate airline alliance
User currently offline6thfreedom From Bermuda, joined Sep 2004, 3314 posts, RR: 20
Reply 24, posted (3 years 3 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2847 times:

Quoting LX138 (Reply 23):
I think it is safe to say that everyone is flying on the LX138/139 then!?

CY2010 HKG-ZRH OD pax = 58,583

CY2010 LX OD pax on HKG-ZRH = 36,000

LX has 62% OD market share


25 runway23 : What is the O&D to GVA and BSL?
26 mogandoCI : ChinaSouthern is decades and miles behind being a viable competitor to CX. Similarly SQ barely considers MH/KUL a threat. However your initial assess
27 6thfreedom : ex HKG?
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