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Boeing Delays 787 Delivery Until At Least July  
User currently offlineblrsea From India, joined May 2005, 1426 posts, RR: 3
Posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 15927 times:

Boeing has announced that the first deliveries of 787 will be in third quarter of 2011. Detailed info would be provided during the Jan 26th earnings report.

Boeing delays 787 delivery until at least July

Quote:
...
Boeing said it expects to deliver the plane during the third quarter, which would be between July and the end of September. The new schedule has been padded in the event that anything else goes wrong, the company said.
...
...
The company said it will provide more information on its financial forecast and deliveries during its earnings conference call on Jan. 26. The revised delivery date is not expected to have a material impact on Boeing's financial results for 2010, the company said
...


49 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineStabilator From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 720 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 15901 times:

I can't say I'm surprised...


So we beat on against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.
User currently offlineBoeingVista From Australia, joined Jan 2009, 1584 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 15855 times:

6-9 Month delay, about what they were expected to announce.

So EIS Q4 2011 is the earliest realistic estimate.



BV
User currently offlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12808 posts, RR: 46
Reply 3, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 15621 times:
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Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 3):
So EIS Q4 2011 is the earliest realistic estimate.

Well, Boeing says Q3 with some contingency added back in. So, if it does slip past Q3 they'll have some tough questions to answer.



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana! #44cHAMpion
User currently offlinereadytotaxi From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 3338 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 15532 times:

This from the BBC News

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12217975



you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
User currently offlineBoeingVista From Australia, joined Jan 2009, 1584 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 15501 times:

Quoting scbriml (Reply 4):

Well, Boeing says Q3 with some contingency added back in. So, if it does slip past Q3 they'll have some tough questions to answer.

In 2009 they said 12 months flight test / certification schedule with a contingency built in, that 12 months has now been streched to 21 months. Boeing are never asked tough questions about the 787 timeline slippage and I dont exoect them to be asked tough questions about this slip either, nor do I expect it to be the last one.

EIS Q1 2012 if we are lucky



BV
User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 15474 times:

Quoting scbriml (Reply 4):
Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 3):
So EIS Q4 2011 is the earliest realistic estimate.

Well, Boeing says Q3 with some contingency added back in. So, if it does slip past Q3 they'll have some tough questions to answer.

How much time might pass between delivery and EIS? The A380 had ten days with SQ in October 2007 IIRC.


User currently offlineTommyBP251b From Germany, joined Apr 2006, 460 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 15288 times:

Can somebody update us regarding the recent problems. I see lots of nearly ready 787 on pictures resting in Everett. Does it still have something to do with the fire?

Regards

Tom



Tom from Cologne
User currently offlinepar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7503 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 15179 times:

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 6):
Boeing are never asked tough questions about the 787 timeline slippage and I dont exoect them to be asked tough questions about this slip either, nor do I expect it to be the last one.

Well the airlines who signed contracts and are receiving compensation due to the delays probably don't care whether those questions are asked in the public domain, we do but then we cannot demand compensation for our delay in seeing the a/c entry into service or being able to book a flight.
Bummer  

The a/c are flying and other than the last "catastrophic failure" - my opinon of the fire - no issues have been reported in relation to flight, unlike the 748 which has an inboard wing "flutter" issue, so unless there is another major equipment failure they should be able to finally meet a delayed deadline.

I do not have any more fingers, eyes or limbs to cross, so...........


User currently offlinedelimit From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1513 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 14756 times:

Quoting TommyBP251b (Reply 8):
Can somebody update us regarding the recent problems. I see lots of nearly ready 787 on pictures resting in Everett. Does it still have something to do with the fire?

Entirely. After the fire Boeing never released an updated schedule. This is that update.


User currently offlineBennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7762 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 14485 times:

For anyone with A300/A339/B767 available for lease, or a stock of spares for them, more good news.

For anyone who had expected to replace these types with shiny new B787, (especially if the new schedule means hitting a D Check) more bad news.


User currently offlineebbuk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 14075 times:

So potentially they could deliver the first plane on 07/08/11 exactly 4years after the initial rollout?

I take it they have sorted the condensation issues of the carbon fibre tube?

You know if I wrote a script about the 787 based soley on the facts as we know them, no one would believe it, in fact they'd call it mean spirited.

Just get the plane out this time. No padding Boeing, pls? And Airbus, you're on watch too!

[Edited 2011-01-18 14:49:03]

User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4864 posts, RR: 40
Reply 12, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 13631 times:
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Quoting readytotaxi (Reply 5):
This from the BBC News

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-1...17975


Out of this news message the following quote from independent airline analyst Saj Ahmad is quite remarkable:

Quote:

"The three years of delays have proved costly as they have embarrassment for the company, but with most of the flight test program under their belt, this is probably the first time since the 787s first flight that Boeing can say with confidence that it can make this new revised delivery schedule."



Now let's hope he is right and Boeing can finally starting delivering this plane to the customers.  .


User currently offlinecloud4000 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 641 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 13128 times:

[quote=ebbuk,reply=14]So potentially they could deliver the first plane on 07/08/11 exactly 4years after the initial rollout?

I take it they have sorted the condensation issues of the carbon fibre tube?

You know if I wrote a script about the 787 based soley on the facts as we know them, no one would believe it, in fact they'd call it mean spirited.

Just get the plane out this time. No padding Boeing, pls? And Airbus, you're on watch too![/quote

Yes, the delays due suck, but hopefully there will be a better aircraft at the end. Airlines can forgive a lot, late deliveries and all, but not an aircraft that does not live up to expectations. Quality is always better than speed.



Boston, USA
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31259 posts, RR: 85
Reply 14, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 13099 times:
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With the way "unknown unknowns" crop up with this program, I have   .

User currently offlinetrex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 4840 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 12996 times:
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Quoting cloud4000 (Reply 16):
Quality is always better than speed.

Unless you are bleeding millions of $ from these delays!


User currently offlinecloud4000 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 641 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 12888 times:

Quoting trex8 (Reply 18):
Unless you are bleeding millions of $ from these delays!

True. No doubt Boeing underestimated the complexity of the aircraft (wouldn't be the first time!), but even they know it is better to forgo short-term benefits for, hopefully, a much longer periods of profit. And those airline who foolishly canceled their orders will either return, or other customers will come take their place in line. As the order book clearly reflects, Boeing has a winner on its hands with the 787.

[Edited 2011-01-18 16:42:41]


Boston, USA
User currently offlineBlueman87 From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 535 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 11151 times:

I guess Delta Did the right thing to delay it a dacade


B6 T5 JFK DL T2/3 JFK
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5478 posts, RR: 30
Reply 18, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 9796 times:

Quoting Blueman87 (Reply 17):
I guess Delta Did the right thing to delay it a dacade

Delta may end up delaying everything a decade. All they are saying is they are looking at replacement options. They are also saying they are trying to reduce aircraft debt. It's difficult to do both.



What the...?
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20247 posts, RR: 59
Reply 19, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 9611 times:

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 5):
Boeing are never asked tough questions

What good do "tough questions" do? The answer is the same: "We screwed up royally."

Quoting trex8 (Reply 15):

Unless you are bleeding millions of $ from these delays!

You will bleed a lot more than $$$ if your plane starts to fall out of the sky once it goes into service because you overlooked some "minor" detail.

A few high-profile DC-10 crashes didn't do McD any good. Nor do the number of MD-11's that seem to have wound up lying on their backs. That QF engine that decided to go all firecracker didn't work out so well for RR.

It is better to be a decade late in this business than to make a "Big Mistake."


User currently offlinepacksonflight From Iceland, joined Jan 2010, 388 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 9137 times:

Boeing is obviously sticking to its policy of announcing 787 delays in 6 Months intervals.

User currently offlineazncsa4qf744er From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 695 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 8878 times:

  

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 19):
A few high-profile DC-10 crashes didn't do McD any good. Nor do the number of MD-11's that seem to have wound up lying on their backs. That QF engine that decided to go all firecracker didn't work out so well for RR.



     


User currently offlineGarpd From UK - Scotland, joined Aug 2005, 2697 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 8754 times:

Isn't this just a confirmation of the new schedule following identification of the cause of the inflight fire and the corrective action required? Therefore not an additional delay.


arpdesign.wordpress.com
User currently onlineflyglobal From Germany, joined Mar 2008, 596 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 7611 times:

Still I would be interested about the changes done. Seems to be that the cause of the fire required some more changes then just minor adjustments around the rear Center electrics.

All other changes causing a delay had some proper explanation so far (wings, festerners missing, delamination etc.). This time not much detalis have been around. Probably I may have missed them though.

Just curious as an engineer - not to blame anyone. Its so quite around the details, so that I as an engineer would assume some major design issue.

Anyhow I wish Boeing a good and succesfull further flight test phase.

regards

Flyglobal


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31259 posts, RR: 85
Reply 24, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 5065 times:
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Quoting Garpd (Reply 22):
Isn't this just a confirmation of the new schedule following identification of the cause of the inflight fire and the corrective action required? Therefore not an additional delay.

Well it is a new delay in that before this announcement, NH was officially expecting their first delivery next month, even if everyone knew that would not happen within days of ZA002 making her emergency landing back in November.

Now NH is officially expecting their first delivery in July.


25 Post contains links blrsea : One more article in today's Seattle Times claims that the FAA is asking Boeing for additional testing for certifying ETOPS above one hour. FAA could s
26 Post contains images 328JET : I think that is rather good than bad news, as a lot of people expected 2012 already! If it is really july, or more likely september, remains to be see
27 Stitch : Since NH and JL won't be able to perform long-distance ETOPS missions for a year, anyway, if the 787 is certified with only ETOPS-60 at initial deliv
28 Post contains images Hamlet69 : Like everyone else, I'm certainly not going to be popping any champagne bottles until NH pilots actually fly the first one off the PAE runway, headed
29 ikramerica : Wasn't Boeing talking about ETOPS-240 or higher out of the box? Anyway, the FAA is very likely uneasy about the Trent1000 due to the A380 problems as
30 Stitch : I'd be surprised if the 787, even if everything had gone perfectly, would have been granted ETOPS-240 out of the box. Zeke has provided a pretty soli
31 YVRLTN : I think so. The 'outside' knew over a month ago what needed to be done and how long it would take to fix, so its good to hear a timeline from Boeing,
32 Post contains images Acey559 : Kind of reminds me of the MD-11. There was a lot of hope, but it just didn't turn out that great for the early operators. Hopefully (and I'm sure the
33 CHRISBA777ER : Question for you all then - Would you have any reservations about flying on a 787 when it EIS with NH? Personally, I would, but I'd be lying if i said
34 JBirdAV8r : Doesn't have to be "very cold weather" for you to ice up, but that's an irrational fear anyway. Do you similarly fear an uncontained engine failure w
35 travelavnut : Although I agree the nervousness of Chris is a bit unjustified, the A380 has proven to be able to handle an uncontained engine failure.
36 CHRISBA777ER : Agreed re the very cold weather - it is an irrational fear, but then I'm terrified of house spiders as well. Re the RR A380 - not been on one since t
37 flybulldog : Does Boeing deliver all the ANA 787's at once or stager them? It seems like there's a back-log of these planes ready to go.
38 Dano1977 : I think its a fair comment. You will always read bad press about plane crashes or for example food poisoning on a cruise ship, and if your on either,
39 AirNZ : Is this something you have definitive reason to suspect of the FAA, or a source to indicate that it has basis.......or is it merely just opinion?
40 Post contains images tarheelwings : No, IMO you're not being ridiculous, rather, I think you're being honest. At the end of the day, we have to rely on our regulatory agencies (in this
41 Post contains images Stitch : Not from a safety or design stand-point, no. If anything, all the crap that's happened to these birds and they're still in the air has probably made
42 Bongodog1964 : I'd have been a lot more worried if the EIS hadn't been delayed to the extent it has. As it stands we are now 3 1/2 years down the road from the roll
43 delimit : Honestly the more of these problems that crop up during testing, the more comfortable with the plane I become. If there were repeated issues with a si
44 tdscanuck : None whatsoever. They should follow in relatively close order, but most airlines can't accept a giant whack of planes all at once anyway so ANA may n
45 YVRLTN : I dont think it is due to the A380 incident directly (which we all know was a 900 though basically the same core), but RR's own 1000 blew up on the t
46 JoeCanuck : Actually, you are less likely to get icing in very cold weather. I don't worry even a little bit. Every type of airliner I have ever been on has suff
47 ikramerica : Cumulative concerns, obviously. Trent 1000 blows up. Trent 900 blows up a few months later. Similar engines, both uncontained failures. Why would the
48 KarlB737 : With all of this talk of delivery I still have to ask the same question as TommyBP251b is asking. Are the problems that have cropped up along this jo
49 Stitch : Yes.
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