Atlwest1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1046 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 14995 times:
Quoting mattdell (Thread starter): Branson says he wants to join a global alliance within a year. Star Alliance seems the natural choice and OneWorld is out of the question. Any chance of SkyTeam?
I dont know if they would be allowed to be in an alliance with a carrier that holds a ton of slots IE BMI, I bet Skyteam will pull out all the stops for this one. This would balance out LHR between all 3 major alliances.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co. or Airt
BrianDromey From Ireland, joined Dec 2006, 4046 posts, RR: 10
Reply 3, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 14886 times:
I wonder if we will see the return of some
"Virgin seeks travelling partner(s)"
titles to VS aircraft?
oneworld is clearly out of the question.
My guess would be *A. They work closely(ish) with CO and BD, two star members. They are part-owned by SQ, a Star partner. They work with SQ and NZ (another * member) to offer "The Great Escepade" RTW product. STAR would give them limited feed at LHR/LGW/MAN, if this was of interest.
London is very much an O&D market for SkyTeam and AF/KL feeds a lot of traffic into AMS, in particular from UK regions, but has no domestic UK network to speak of. BD might not be much, but it is (slightly) better than nothing.
Next flights: MAN-ORK-LHR(EI)-MAN(BD); MAN-LHR(BD)-ORK (EI); DUB-ZRH-LAX (LX) LAX-YYZ (AC) YYZ-YHZ-LHR(AC)-DUB(BD)
Byrdluvs747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2758 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 14575 times:
I pray that they don't choose Skytease. That would devalue my large pool of VS miles. Since OW is out of contention with this, I would hope that SRB chose *A . However, I'd like to see LH forced to sell BMI before andy ATI/JV is allowed between VS and LH/UA/CO.
The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
fcogafa From United Kingdom, joined May 2008, 1001 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 14484 times:
Quoting Atlwest1 (Reply 1): I dont know if they would be allowed to be in an alliance with a carrier that holds a ton of slots IE BMI, I bet Skyteam will pull out all the stops for this one. This would balance out LHR between all 3 major alliances.
Although the number of slots would still be nowhere near the Oneworld total at LHR, so it may not be a problem. The new Heathrow terminal could be pretty packed when it opens if they add ACA, Continental, Virgin etc etc!
It must be a given - how could a company half owned by SIA be in a different alliance to them?!
Of course but from UA's point of view what does VS bring to the table for them. Nothing from what I can see unless they drop all the routes that UA currently operate on and VS concentrates on say JFK, BOS, LAS and MIA in the US. I am of course referring to routes from LHR here by the way. Otherwise there is one hell of a lot of overlap TATL wise.
I personally see Skyteam going after them in a big way.
kl911 From Netherlands, joined Jul 2003, 5482 posts, RR: 16
Reply 9, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 14109 times:
Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 4): I pray that they don't choose Skytease. That would devalue my large pool of VS miles. Since OW is out of contention with this, I would hope that SRB chose *A . However, I'd like to see LH forced to sell BMI before andy ATI/JV is allowed between VS and LH/UA/CO.
Why is that? What is the last time you flew KL, AF or SU ? I prefer all of them over LH and CO. And transfering in AMS is 10x easier and faster then LHR and FRA.
FlyCaledonian From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2169 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 13887 times:
Although it has links with Star, it wouldn't be the first time an airline has jumped alliance. It depends what VS wants from any link-up, and it will be down to Star or Skyteam.
With Star VS adds frequency on a number of routes. Some feed from bmi at LHR would be firmed up, but not really much opportunity to build new feed as that goes through other Star hubs in the main already. LHR-IAH would be a new route for VS; LHR-BOS/JFK/IAD/MIA for UA/CO.
With Skyteam VS would have an opportunity to link with the weakest alliance at LHR, thus allowing it to proclaim it was still taking on the big boys (Star and oneworld). A JV with DL would allow DL and VS to beef up LHR-USA traffic. Frequencies would be added on LHR-BOS/JFK/MIA. VS would gain access to ATL/DTW/MSP through DL; DL would gain access to LHR-EWR/IAD/ORD/LAX/SFO through VS. Add in LGW-MCO/LAS and DL/VS would have a good LHR-North America network to rival AA/BA and UA/CO/AC.
I think Skyteam will go all out to woo VS, as LHR is an important market. AMS/CDG might be the European hubs but VS can bring them a lot of important point-to-point markets from LHR. Star offers a lot of existing codeshares, but with a lot of route duplication it presents BA with an opportunity to say that VS has done a major u-turn after it's opposition to BA's ATI deal to link up with next biggest competitor.
kiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8764 posts, RR: 13
Reply 11, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 13775 times:
Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 10): Star offers a lot of existing codeshares, but with a lot of route duplication
There is some route duplication ( I count around 10 duplicate routes and many of those have existing/planned codeshare/frequent flyer arrangements between VS and the *A carrier suggesting that they are quite happy to co-operate ) on most of these routes VS offer additional daily frequency and as we know business travellers love frequency .
On the other hand routes which VS would bring to *A which are currently unserved by any *A partner to the best of my knowledge are some quite high profile routes such as LHR-JFK/BOS/MIA/NBO/LOS/PVG/DXB and SYD-HKG .
I see more pros than cons to *A/VS if VS ends up in *A .
Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
tristarcrazy From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 337 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 13646 times:
There is an article in Aviation Week this week about this. The magazine was leaning towards DL (DL had a agreement with VS several years ago) but stated anything was possible. AW mentioned that SQ is interested in selling their share and noted VS slots at LHR were worth 1.5 billion....
cloudboy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 999 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 13377 times:
Not sure I but into them joining any alliance at this point.
With all the consolidations that have happened in the past year and a half or so, rising fuel costs, weather delays, etc. - I think anything even hinting at alliances or mergers is going to be tough sell to the regulators. The only way I can see anything happening is if they start a new alliance, which to be honest I could see happening.
"Six becoming three doesn't create more Americans that want to fly." -Adam Pilarski
GlobalCabotage From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 638 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 13200 times:
Star seems to make the most sense. Give them ATI with UA and EWR, IAD, ORD, SFO, and LAX and AA/BA will have some serious competition. Also, could bring MAN-ORD back (rumor mill in Chicago has killed me lately, but this makes sense).
jr From United States of America, joined May 1999, 972 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 13187 times:
Not sure how the VAUS DL tie up plays into this or if it plays into this at all. With Virgin trying to streamline frequent flier programs across their global brands, it would make sense that they try to have a uniform alliance plan as well. VAUS and Virgin America certainly seem to fit better with the DL network than with Star. I think when it is all said and done, they'll end up in Skyteam.
rampboy77 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 64 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 12975 times:
People were scratching their head when DL signed up for LHR - BOS and LHR - MIA. An alliance bid with Virgin would have this make more sense. European hubs in LHR, AMS, CDG and FCO would be fantastic for Skyteam.
VS11 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1163 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 12798 times:
Quoting jr (Reply 17): VAUS and Virgin America certainly seem to fit better with the DL network than with Star. I think when it is all said and done, they'll end up in Skyteam.
I would agree with you. Even though from a purely Virgin Atlantic point of view, Star Alliance is a better fit, when you account for the position of the other Virgin airlines, DL makes more sense especially as Branson's co-investors in VX would want to cash out at some point and DL could be a well-positioned prospective buyer. Remember old DL had launched Song to counter jetBlue at the time, and with VX they may end up having a subsidiary with a great product and comparatively lower cost to compete in premium markets...that of course would be well into the future....
CXfirst From Norway, joined Jan 2007, 3209 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 12768 times:
How much influence do you think airlines such as Virgin America and Virgin Blue will have? I've heard that Virgin Blue is very interested in joining an alliance, but I cannot see them joining a different alliance from Virgin Atlantic.
So really, I think the alliance the secures Virgin Atlantic, will get Virgin Blue as well, and possibly Virgin America (don't know how interested they are in an alliance).
I personally hope Star Alliance get them. I do most of my travel with *A, and have a * Gold membership. I do not fly enough to secure premium membership with Skyteam as well, and I do fly quite a lot with Virgin Blue.
joelyboy911 From New Zealand, joined Oct 2009, 244 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 12537 times:
A quick scan of Virgin Atlantic's website reveals relationships with:
8x Star Alliance members ( NZ, BD, NH, SK, SQ, SA, US and CO)
3x Virgin Brands ( VX, DJ, VA)
5x Unaligned airlines ( JM, GF, 9W, HA, MH)
1x Future Skyteam member ( CI)
These are listed as Frequent Flyer partners, some are also codeshare partners.
With many slating Virgin Blue as a potential Star Alliance member, due to the comprehensive relationship beginning with Air New Zealand, it would seem as though the Stars are pointing towards Virgin as a member of that alliance.
If SQ does indeed sell it's stake in VS, it's natural to expect that could affect any alliance decision, but I don't think the change of ownership of the non-controlling stake would cause VS to ditch it's relationships with the other Star members.
commavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 12756 posts, RR: 61
Reply 23, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 12482 times:
It was an obvious foregone conclusion.
Virgin was never a true global competitor to BA, nor would it ever be nor aim to be, but now with AA-BA, the BA-Iberia merger, etc., Virgin is even less competitive than they ever were.
Integrating into either Star or SkyTeam is a natural progression and frankly always would have been for an airline in Virgin's shoes with so many precious, valuable Heathrow slots. Of Star and SkyTeam, I think the pre-existing links certainly weigh in favor of Star, but the ability for most dynamic network/revenue contribution is a toss-up between the two.
And as for Branson's claim that he will maintain control, while I think it is nice of SRB to say that for now, I still believe that Virgin will not be able to remain independent forever. Eventually, I believe they will have to be integrated into some larger grouping - not just an alliance, but actually a larger airline company (perhaps Lufthansa).