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Virgin Atlantic Plans To Join A Global Alliance  
User currently offlinemattdell From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 134 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 3 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 14607 times:

Seems this is the result of VS hiring Deutsche Bank: http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...embership-for-virgin-atlantic.html

Branson says he wants to join a global alliance within a year. Star Alliance seems the natural choice and OneWorld is out of the question. Any chance of SkyTeam?

54 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAtlwest1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1046 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (3 years 3 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 14588 times:

Quoting mattdell (Thread starter):
Branson says he wants to join a global alliance within a year. Star Alliance seems the natural choice and OneWorld is out of the question. Any chance of SkyTeam?

I dont know if they would be allowed to be in an alliance with a carrier that holds a ton of slots IE BMI, I bet Skyteam will pull out all the stops for this one. This would balance out LHR between all 3 major alliances.



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co. or Airt
User currently offlinenzdsgnr From New Zealand, joined Jul 2008, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 3 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 14499 times:

might be a done deal according to a US F/A  US F/A Mentions VS As *A Member In Onboard Mssg (by planeguy727 Jan 16 2011 in Civil Aviation)

User currently offlineBrianDromey From Ireland, joined Dec 2006, 3901 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (3 years 3 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 14479 times:

I wonder if we will see the return of some

"Virgin seeks travelling partner(s)"

titles to VS aircraft?

oneworld is clearly out of the question.
My guess would be *A. They work closely(ish) with CO and BD, two star members. They are part-owned by SQ, a Star partner. They work with SQ and NZ (another * member) to offer "The Great Escepade" RTW product. STAR would give them limited feed at LHR/LGW/MAN, if this was of interest.
London is very much an O&D market for SkyTeam and AF/KL feeds a lot of traffic into AMS, in particular from UK regions, but has no domestic UK network to speak of. BD might not be much, but it is (slightly) better than nothing.



Next flights: MAN-ORK-LHR(EI)-MAN(BD); MAN-LHR(BD)-ORK (EI); DUB-ZRH-LAX (LX) LAX-YYZ (AC) YYZ-YHZ-LHR(AC)-DUB(BD)
User currently offlineByrdluvs747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2313 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (3 years 3 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 14168 times:

I pray that they don't choose Skytease. That would devalue my large pool of VS miles. Since OW is out of contention with this, I would hope that SRB chose *A . However, I'd like to see LH forced to sell BMI before andy ATI/JV is allowed between VS and LH/UA/CO.


The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
User currently offlinefcogafa From United Kingdom, joined May 2008, 738 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 3 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 14077 times:

Quoting Atlwest1 (Reply 1):
I dont know if they would be allowed to be in an alliance with a carrier that holds a ton of slots IE BMI, I bet Skyteam will pull out all the stops for this one. This would balance out LHR between all 3 major alliances.

Although the number of slots would still be nowhere near the Oneworld total at LHR, so it may not be a problem. The new Heathrow terminal could be pretty packed when it opens if they add ACA, Continental, Virgin etc etc!

It must be a given - how could a company half owned by SIA be in a different alliance to them?!

[Edited 2011-01-18 14:12:10]

User currently offlineUAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (3 years 3 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 13824 times:

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 5):
It must be a given - how could a company half owned by SIA be in a different alliance to them?!

Perhaps as mentioned in another thread DL or AF/KLM bought SQ's stake a lot could change.

Would UA really want to see VS join Star and compete against them, JV or not?


User currently offlinenyc2theworld From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 662 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 3 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 13787 times:

Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 6):
Would UA really want to see VS join Star and compete against them, JV or not?

If they are in a JV then they aren't competing.



Always wonderers if this "last and final boarding call" is in fact THE last and final boarding call.
User currently offlineUAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (3 years 3 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 13703 times:

Quoting nyc2theworld (Reply 7):
If they are in a JV then they aren't competing.

Of course but from UA's point of view what does VS bring to the table for them. Nothing from what I can see unless they drop all the routes that UA currently operate on and VS concentrates on say JFK, BOS, LAS and MIA in the US. I am of course referring to routes from LHR here by the way. Otherwise there is one hell of a lot of overlap TATL wise.

I personally see Skyteam going after them in a big way.


User currently offlinekl911 From Ireland, joined Jul 2003, 5087 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (3 years 3 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 13702 times:

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 4):
I pray that they don't choose Skytease. That would devalue my large pool of VS miles. Since OW is out of contention with this, I would hope that SRB chose *A . However, I'd like to see LH forced to sell BMI before andy ATI/JV is allowed between VS and LH/UA/CO.

Why is that? What is the last time you flew KL, AF or SU ? I prefer all of them over LH and CO. And transfering in AMS is 10x easier and faster then LHR and FRA.



Next trip : DUB-AUH-CGK-DPS-KUL-AUH-CDG-ORK :-)
User currently offlineFlyCaledonian From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2050 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (3 years 3 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 13480 times:

Although it has links with Star, it wouldn't be the first time an airline has jumped alliance. It depends what VS wants from any link-up, and it will be down to Star or Skyteam.

With Star VS adds frequency on a number of routes. Some feed from bmi at LHR would be firmed up, but not really much opportunity to build new feed as that goes through other Star hubs in the main already. LHR-IAH would be a new route for VS; LHR-BOS/JFK/IAD/MIA for UA/CO.

With Skyteam VS would have an opportunity to link with the weakest alliance at LHR, thus allowing it to proclaim it was still taking on the big boys (Star and oneworld). A JV with DL would allow DL and VS to beef up LHR-USA traffic. Frequencies would be added on LHR-BOS/JFK/MIA. VS would gain access to ATL/DTW/MSP through DL; DL would gain access to LHR-EWR/IAD/ORD/LAX/SFO through VS. Add in LGW-MCO/LAS and DL/VS would have a good LHR-North America network to rival AA/BA and UA/CO/AC.

I think Skyteam will go all out to woo VS, as LHR is an important market. AMS/CDG might be the European hubs but VS can bring them a lot of important point-to-point markets from LHR. Star offers a lot of existing codeshares, but with a lot of route duplication it presents BA with an opportunity to say that VS has done a major u-turn after it's opposition to BA's ATI deal to link up with next biggest competitor.

Interesting times.



Let's Go British Caledonian!
User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8494 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (3 years 3 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 13368 times:
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Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 10):
Star offers a lot of existing codeshares, but with a lot of route duplication

There is some route duplication ( I count around 10 duplicate routes and many of those have existing/planned codeshare/frequent flyer arrangements between VS and the *A carrier suggesting that they are quite happy to co-operate ) on most of these routes VS offer additional daily frequency and as we know business travellers love frequency .

On the other hand routes which VS would bring to *A which are currently unserved by any *A partner to the best of my knowledge are some quite high profile routes such as LHR-JFK/BOS/MIA/NBO/LOS/PVG/DXB and SYD-HKG .

I see more pros than cons to *A/VS if VS ends up in *A .



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineBlueman87 From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 535 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 3 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 13323 times:

Skyteam I thinking because og Delta's Interest


B6 T5 JFK DL T2/3 JFK
User currently offlinetristarcrazy From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 318 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 3 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 13239 times:

There is an article in Aviation Week this week about this. The magazine was leaning towards DL (DL had a agreement with VS several years ago) but stated anything was possible. AW mentioned that SQ is interested in selling their share and noted VS slots at LHR were worth 1.5 billion....


717,722,732,733,737.738,739,742,744.752,763,764,772,L10,L15,DC3,DC6,DC8,DC9,DC10,MD11,MD80,MD90,CV880,A310,A319,A320.A33
User currently offlinejetblue777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 1443 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (3 years 3 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 13108 times:

I'm hoping they would join Star Alliance, 49% of VS is owned by SQ, They have codeshare agreements BMI, SA)">CO, CA, NH, SA and partnerships with NZ, NH, US and SK all of which are star carriers.

Though Skyteam is a possibility but since I'm a Star Member, I'm hoping for Star Alliance 


I would love to see either Skyteam's or Star Alliance's special livery on VS's metal!



My worst nightmare is not getting a window seat!
User currently offlinecloudboy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 796 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (3 years 3 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 12970 times:

Not sure I but into them joining any alliance at this point.

With all the consolidations that have happened in the past year and a half or so, rising fuel costs, weather delays, etc. - I think anything even hinting at alliances or mergers is going to be tough sell to the regulators. The only way I can see anything happening is if they start a new alliance, which to be honest I could see happening.



"Six becoming three doesn't create more Americans that want to fly." -Adam Pilarski
User currently offlineGlobalCabotage From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 602 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 3 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 12793 times:

Star seems to make the most sense. Give them ATI with UA and EWR, IAD, ORD, SFO, and LAX and AA/BA will have some serious competition. Also, could bring MAN-ORD back (rumor mill in Chicago has killed me lately, but this makes sense).

User currently offlinejr From United States of America, joined May 1999, 967 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (3 years 3 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 12780 times:

Not sure how the VAUS DL tie up plays into this or if it plays into this at all. With Virgin trying to streamline frequent flier programs across their global brands, it would make sense that they try to have a uniform alliance plan as well. VAUS and Virgin America certainly seem to fit better with the DL network than with Star. I think when it is all said and done, they'll end up in Skyteam.


I've flown on 9V-SPK.
User currently offlinerampboy77 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 64 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (3 years 3 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 12568 times:

People were scratching their head when DL signed up for LHR - BOS and LHR - MIA. An alliance bid with Virgin would have this make more sense. European hubs in LHR, AMS, CDG and FCO would be fantastic for Skyteam.

User currently offlineVS11 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1063 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (3 years 3 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 12391 times:

Quoting jr (Reply 17):
VAUS and Virgin America certainly seem to fit better with the DL network than with Star. I think when it is all said and done, they'll end up in Skyteam.

I would agree with you. Even though from a purely Virgin Atlantic point of view, Star Alliance is a better fit, when you account for the position of the other Virgin airlines, DL makes more sense especially as Branson's co-investors in VX would want to cash out at some point and DL could be a well-positioned prospective buyer. Remember old DL had launched Song to counter jetBlue at the time, and with VX they may end up having a subsidiary with a great product and comparatively lower cost to compete in premium markets...that of course would be well into the future....


User currently offlineCXfirst From Norway, joined Jan 2007, 2930 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (3 years 3 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 12361 times:

How much influence do you think airlines such as Virgin America and Virgin Blue will have? I've heard that Virgin Blue is very interested in joining an alliance, but I cannot see them joining a different alliance from Virgin Atlantic.

So really, I think the alliance the secures Virgin Atlantic, will get Virgin Blue as well, and possibly Virgin America (don't know how interested they are in an alliance).

I personally hope Star Alliance get them. I do most of my travel with *A, and have a * Gold membership. I do not fly enough to secure premium membership with Skyteam as well, and I do fly quite a lot with Virgin Blue.

-CXfirst



From Norway, live in Australia
User currently offlinejoelyboy911 From New Zealand, joined Oct 2009, 244 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (3 years 3 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 12130 times:

A quick scan of Virgin Atlantic's website reveals relationships with:

8x Star Alliance members ( NZ, BD, NH, SK, SQ, SA, US and CO)
3x Virgin Brands ( VX, DJ, VA)
5x Unaligned airlines ( JM, GF, 9W, HA, MH)
1x Future Skyteam member ( CI)

These are listed as Frequent Flyer partners, some are also codeshare partners.

With many slating Virgin Blue as a potential Star Alliance member, due to the comprehensive relationship beginning with Air New Zealand, it would seem as though the Stars are pointing towards Virgin as a member of that alliance.

If SQ does indeed sell it's stake in VS, it's natural to expect that could affect any alliance decision, but I don't think the change of ownership of the non-controlling stake would cause VS to ditch it's relationships with the other Star members.



Flown: NZ, NY, SJ, QF, UA, AC, EI, BE, TP, AF
User currently onlinerj777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1753 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (3 years 3 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 12114 times:
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I'm surprised Virgin waited this long to join an alliance to begin with.

User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 11156 posts, RR: 62
Reply 23, posted (3 years 3 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 12075 times:

It was an obvious foregone conclusion.

Virgin was never a true global competitor to BA, nor would it ever be nor aim to be, but now with AA-BA, the BA-Iberia merger, etc., Virgin is even less competitive than they ever were.

Integrating into either Star or SkyTeam is a natural progression and frankly always would have been for an airline in Virgin's shoes with so many precious, valuable Heathrow slots. Of Star and SkyTeam, I think the pre-existing links certainly weigh in favor of Star, but the ability for most dynamic network/revenue contribution is a toss-up between the two.

And as for Branson's claim that he will maintain control, while I think it is nice of SRB to say that for now, I still believe that Virgin will not be able to remain independent forever. Eventually, I believe they will have to be integrated into some larger grouping - not just an alliance, but actually a larger airline company (perhaps Lufthansa).


User currently offlinejgw787 From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 206 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (3 years 3 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 11952 times:

I can see Vs going into star with BMI having no long haul international flights...

25 travelR : I didn't see VS joining any alliance because Richard wanted control of what VS did instead of pandering to other airlines/alliances however the way ev
26 CHRISBA777ER : From a personal point of view I'll be chuffed to bits if they go Star as it will mean a BIG consolidation of miles for me - good news all round. Going
27 joelyboy911 : I guess we need to be careful about lumping the Virgin Airlines together, especially VX, which SRB doesn't own a controlling stake in. DJ's transpaci
28 davescj : I would hope VS goes goes to Skyteam. Not only for the LHR slots, but the connections beyond that VS could bring to ST. I am thinking Africa and India
29 CYatUK : Possibly not exactly on topic but why don't any of the ticket booking sites never show any results for Virgin? Is their own website the only place to
30 jetfuel : For Virgin to work as a global brand Virgin Australia (DJ), America and Atlantic must be the same alliance. The one that fits the best is obviously St
31 gemuser : For VS you are probably right, for VA I disagree. IMHO DL (& ST) would work much better for them. AS neither VS nor SRB own a controlling or even
32 AirNZ : I don't quite understand how you come to that conclusion......whose 'official permission' do they need to join an alliance regarding slot allocation,
33 vgnatl747 : Exactly, all VS does is make UA's product that much more dated and inferior. I've been a long time far of VS, and flew them exclusively back in the l
34 SKAirbus : I think Lufthansa will be keen for VS to join star as it could help beef up some of the feeder traffic provided by BD. There could even be scope for L
35 globalflyer : I would hope that Skyteam does all posible to gain VS. If DL and DJ can get their partnership approved by the US and VS were to join maybe we would se
36 txkf2010 : I tend to agree with globalflyer. I mean the Virgin group has 4 airlines on it's own and we know how Branson is, so why couldn't we see a "Virgin All
37 UAL777UK : Are we not forgetting that UA is already at the table and VS wants to maybe get a seat? Does UA therefore have to offer anything. Who would be the sp
38 kiwiandrew : 4 ? Who is the 4th airline ?
39 motorhussy : Personally, I think something along these lines have been the master plan all along but SRB has now found his empire over-extended and at risk so has
40 burnsie28 : Question is really what does VS bring to any of the alliances? For skyteam nothing really as they don't do intra-europe flying, star already has a mor
41 anstar : capable and BMI in the same sentence! Haven;t heard that for a while! BMI are a basket case - given they are reducing man-lhr to 4 Embraer flights an
42 mattdell : Virgin Atlantic Virgin Blue V Australia Virgin America
43 goldenstate : For either Skyteam or Star, Virgin Atlantic is very attractive as a potential participant in either of the two major transatlantic joint ventures. Wi
44 panamair : For Skyteam, a more robust presence in one of the largest business markets in the world - LHR All of VS's beyond-LHR destinations in Africa/India/Mid
45 Kleiner : Could VS form its own alliance with VX, DJ and Emirates or Etihad?
46 kiwiandrew : My mistake , I misread your post and thought that you were referring to Virgin branded airlines - if we are going to include non "Virgin" branded air
47 anstar : Well technically V Australia/Virgin Blue/Virgin Atlantic/Virgin America already have reciprocal FF agreements so are already aligned.
48 jr : To say a market the size of London and access to slots at an airport like LHR is not desirable to any alliance is tough to grasp. Non stop options fr
49 cloudboy : If they were to do that, I wonder if they would be able to get US to join? They are a bit of the odd duck out now, DL being the major player in SkyTe
50 Post contains links AusA380 : Interesting additional dimension in the last couple of hours. NZ is building a stake up to 15% in DJ. This is on the back of a recent commercial agree
51 DTWLAX : What connections to India does VS offer? They fly only to DEL in India... BOM service was stopped a couple of years ago.
52 Post contains links hiflyer : Just to add fuel didn't BMI just announce a reduction in LHR flying??? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...-domestic-flights-at-Heathrow.html
53 777ER : NZ and VS have just announced further code sharing on RAR, HKG routes and AKL, WLG and CHC routes from Australia and now NZ and purchased an upto 15%
54 Bongodog1964 : The one thing that both DL & UA lack is feed into their transatlantic routes as LHR. BMI can provide this, VS can't as they only operate long hau
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