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AA Orders 2 77W; FY2010 $471 Million Loss  
User currently offlinerealsim From Spain, joined Apr 2010, 645 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 30692 times:

AA has announced the order of 2 new 777-300ERs and will become the first US customer of the model:

http://aa.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=3127

Besides, they have reported a full-year 2010 net loss of $471 Million, compared to loss of $1.5 billion for 2009.

I can't understand why the order is only for 2 aircraft...  

211 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinewashingtonian From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 30718 times:

Wow, I am very happy! Maybe they are ordering 2 from Boeing with a plan to acquire second-hand ones from JAL in the near future?

User currently offline797 From Venezuela, joined Aug 2005, 1892 posts, RR: 27
Reply 2, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 30549 times:

Yess!!!!!!!

I'm so happy. This will be one amazing bird dressed in its silver suit.

Rumors confirmed, then.

797



Flying isn't dangerous. Crashing is what's dangerous!
User currently offlinefrigatebird From Netherlands, joined Jun 2008, 1577 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 30553 times:

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 1):
a plan to acquire second-hand ones from JAL in the near future?

I missed that. How many does JAL want to get rid of? Are they cutting so many routes that they can't even sustain their 77W fleet?

Quoting realsim (Thread starter):
I can't understand why the order is only for 2 aircraft...

Free airplanes as compensation for 787 delays.....   



146,318/19/20/21,AB6,332,343,345,388,722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9,742,74E,744,752,762,763,772,77E,773,77W,AT4/7,ATP,CRK,E90,F50/7
User currently offlinegunsontheroof From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3502 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 30443 times:

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 1):
Maybe they are ordering 2 from Boeing with a plan to acquire second-hand ones from JAL in the near future?

I can't imagine that JL has any 77Ws to spare, especially considering the fact that the 744s are history. I suspect AA has bigger plans for the 77W, but are electing to start off slow. Of course, these are going to be great looking planes!  

Cue "Where Will AA Fly Their Two 77W?" thread...now.



Next Flight: 9/17 BFI-BFI
User currently offline797 From Venezuela, joined Aug 2005, 1892 posts, RR: 27
Reply 5, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 30384 times:

http://www.svzmspotters.net/new/noticiasFoto.php?id=318&tam=1

Personally, can't wait to see it flying!



Flying isn't dangerous. Crashing is what's dangerous!
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12360 posts, RR: 25
Reply 6, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 30316 times:

Quoting realsim (Thread starter):
AA has announced the order of 2 new 777-300ERs and will become the first US customer of the model


  

Can't wait to see them in their AA livery.

And of course two is just the start.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8291 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 30274 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

777-300ER for AA, hey, 2 is a start AA started slowly with the 777's and ended up with 47 so if history is a partern then AA will have many more. 25 would do just fine.

[Edited 2011-01-19 06:37:46]

[Edited 2011-01-19 06:38:48]

User currently offlinePlaneAdmirer From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 561 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 30216 times:

Nice purchase may be there be more coming. However, a company that consistently loses money rarely has the ability to make large scale capital expenditures. While honorable in not filing for bankruptcy, the cleansing effect of bankruptcy on/for AA would have made a huge difference.

User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5737 posts, RR: 48
Reply 9, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 30210 times:

I think they'll deploy them to either JFK-LHR or ORD-NRT.


That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineAA1818 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Feb 2006, 3429 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 30164 times:

Quoting 797 (Reply 2):
I'm so happy. This will be one amazing bird dressed in its silver suit.

So long as the current livery survives till 2012! hehe

Quoting 797 (Reply 2):
Rumors confirmed, then.

Yea- Good job to those who brought the rumour to the attention of A.Net and to those who defended their position and trusted their sources!

Quoting realsim (Thread starter):
the first US customer of the model:

AA may not be the most aggressive, but pioneering the model in the US could very well make them a trend-setter if UA and DL follow suit.

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 3):
How many does JAL want to get rid of? Are they cutting so many routes that they can't even sustain their 77W fleet?

Does JL have any on order that perhaps they would sell to AA. They may need what they have in their fleet now, but they may not need anymore if they have more 77W's on order.

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 3):
Free airplanes as compensation for 787 delays.....

Could very well be. Or could just be a sweetheart deal from Boeing, as I don't believe AA has paid anything for their 787s yet nor committed to a firm order. It's some hybrid special arrangement where they have options on delivery slots or something.


Anyways congrats to AA. I hope they return to a full year of profits in 2011.

AA1818



“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
User currently offlinealitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4746 posts, RR: 45
Reply 11, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 30161 times:

Quoting PlaneAdmirer (Reply 8):
Nice purchase may be there be more coming. However, a company that consistently loses money rarely has the ability to make large scale capital expenditures. While honorable in not filing for bankruptcy, the cleansing effect of bankruptcy on/for AA would have made a huge difference.

Exactly. While exciting from an order perspective (and the potential application of the aircraft), there is a bigger topic here than 2-77Ws. The continued loss both for Q42010 and FY2010.



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offline797 From Venezuela, joined Aug 2005, 1892 posts, RR: 27
Reply 12, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 30072 times:

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 10):
So long as the current livery survives till 2012! hehe

It would be cool to see a slight mod on their livery... nothing drastic though, AA has one of the coolest ones out there.

This beast coming out of the paint shop all polished... GEEZ!   



Flying isn't dangerous. Crashing is what's dangerous!
User currently offlineaa787 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 610 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 30036 times:

Quoting 797 (Reply 12):
This beast coming out of the paint shop all polished... GEEZ!

Especially since it will be AA's first 777 with GE engines.



ET In NYC
User currently offlineAmerican 767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3742 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 29908 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Doesn't AA still have a few more 200s on order? I am wondering if this order is meant to convert existing orders of the 200 model into 300 models, or if it is a totally new order.
Will Boeing continue to build the 77W only with GE power plant available?

Ben Soriano



Ben Soriano
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7513 posts, RR: 24
Reply 15, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 29914 times:

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 9):
I think they'll deploy them to either JFK-LHR or ORD-NRT.

DFW-NRT or MIA-EZE is a better canidate than either. JFK-LHR has so much frequency that the extra seats on one of the flights would hardly be noticed and if one NRT flight were upgraded, it would be DFW.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently onlineUnited_fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7458 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 29902 times:

Very cool! Will there be any problems with their wingspan at the gate ?


'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offlineSPREE34 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 2241 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 29728 times:

Quoting alitalia744 (Reply 11):
there is a bigger topic here than 2-77Ws. The continued loss both for Q42010 and FY2010.

Yep!         

"Ooh, OOhhh, shiney new airplanes"...."GE engines".... and all of the usual A.Net banter, and you were the first to notice the smell of smoke. I salute thee.

Losses, bonuses, union contracts in talks, fuel fluctuating, ..... Yes, 2 new airplanes may be a start, or, ONLY 2 new airplanes may be indicative of other issues.



I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
User currently offlinecloud4000 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 641 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 29526 times:

Great news indeed! Hopefully more follow on orders will be coming. I wouldn't be surprised if both DL and UA put in orders for the aircraft as well to replace their 744s.


Boston, USA
User currently offlinegoldenstate From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 566 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 29489 times:

For the quarter:
7.1% YOY unit revenue growth, compared to 8% for DAL.
6.5% YOY yield growth, compared to 9% for DAL.
Nice 1.8% YOY reduction in ex-fuel CASM.

For full year 2010, all-in mainline CASM 0.2% lower than 2009. 12.7% higher than DAL for full year.
Unit revenue and yield improvements trailing DAL and probably UAL as well.

Not great, not terrible. Essentially treading water. Some troubling trendlines relative to DAL from Q2 and Q3 are at least slowed down for now. I still expect that over the long term DAL and UAL will continue to outperform AMR in unit revenue growth. Let's see what UAL reports.

New widebodies in the middle of open contract negotiations, and with present contractual restrictions which prevent AA from flying them over 15 hours, and a structural cost disadvantage relative to competitors. That's a pretty big gamble. Not sure I would have taken it.

Perhaps there is something we don't know, such as APA and APFA having a come-to-Jesus moment and realizing that if AMR can at least partially close the labor cost gap, they will benefit from growth opportunities. If that is the case, then this should be a demonstration of good faith that will foretell some progress on the labor front.


User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3392 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 29487 times:

What about the half billion dollar loss???

The roof of the house is caving in and we're getting excited over new siding.

Glad to see a 777-300 with a US carrier none the less.


User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6588 posts, RR: 24
Reply 21, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 29330 times:

Quoting goldenstate (Reply 19):
Perhaps there is something we don't know, such as APA and APFA having a come-to-Jesus moment and realizing that if AMR can at least partially close the labor cost gap, they will benefit from growth opportunities. If that is the case, then this should be a demonstration of good faith that will foretell some progress on the labor front.

I think this is part of the point of ordering just 2 77W's. AA is going to dangle them in front of the unions like bait. Not sure the unions will actually bite, but I guess it's worth a try.


User currently offlinelhr380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 29226 times:

Congrats AA. The 773 is a fab looking aircraft  

Nice to see they have reduced their losses this year.


User currently offlineripcordd From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1149 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 29190 times:

My bet would be on ORD-BOM or ORD-DEL upgrade

User currently offlineflyfree727 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 658 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 29167 times:

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 17):
Yes, 2 new airplanes may be a start, or, ONLY 2 new airplanes may be indicative of other issues.

2 new airplanes??
AA has a firm order for an additional 35 737-800's to be delivered this year and next.
45 new 737-800s were delivered in 2010. Thats 80 NEW airplanes in 2 years.

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 9):
I think they'll deploy them to either JFK-LHR or ORD-NRT
Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 15):
DFW-NRT or MIA-EZE is a better canidate than either

In a letter to employees today, Arpey stated that the 777-300s would enable AA to offer non-stop service to destinations that we can't reach today, so it sounds as if, for now, these will perhaps be used for new destinations.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 20):
The roof of the house is caving in and we're getting excited over new siding.

Really? Wow so I guess the BILLION dollar improvement year over year from 2009, plus the 5 billion in cash is a short term crisis.

Quoting goldenstate (Reply 19):
Perhaps there is something we don't know, such as APA and APFA having a come-to-Jesus moment

The memberships stance at APFA has not changed. We will not sign a concessionary contract.

AA ORD


25 Post contains images epa001 : So finally a US customer for the highly successful B77W. A sign of more to come? .
26 commavia : Continuing to move - albeit slowly - in the right direction. The 777-300ER announcement is as was expected, although I doubt this is it - it is inconc
27 realsim : They have 7 more 777-200ER on order. Also to note, it is interesting that this is their "first aircraft growth since 2001". 787 and 738 are replaceme
28 FWAERJ : I agree with the APFA. The FAs got hit most by the concessions, moreso than the pilots and mechanics. AA should focus on at least a cost-neutral cont
29 hiflyer : Might consider MIANRT finally.....but AA wants a 4 man cockpit with 1 captain and 3 fo...APA wants it 2 and 2 so to make that many more Captain positi
30 commavia : Agreed. Ah, but there in lies the problem: AA has claimed that they would be happy with a cost-neutral contract, but of course that would require AA
31 Revelation : I'm not a shareholder, so I really don't care. First 77W in a US airline? Yes, I care. And yes, I think they will be around to accept delivery.
32 cloudyapple : We are so used to the likes of Emirates and Qatar buying them by the bucket load. 2 (two!) is such a large order in America it's making some a.netters
33 realsim : It's even more than that. 31 738s were delivered in 2009, 45 in 2010, and there are still 54 more to be delivered. So in two years AA has already rec
34 Post contains images travelavnut : Congrats to Boeing and AA! Hopefully AA will turn a profit soon and will order more of those hot birds! mmmhhhh... cant wait indeed!!!!
35 cloud4000 : Then again, AA and other US airlines are not making money hand over fist like EK and QR are that gives them the ability to buy aircraft by the bucket
36 Style : Seriously, I was thinking the same thing. Half a billion dollars loss while virtually all other US carriers are making money and the hot topic is 2 7
37 UAL747 : You know why it's a hot topic. My guess is DFW-NRT gets upgraded, and maybe some of the South American routes, though neither really pushes the range
38 ripcordd : ORD-SYD can it make it?
39 LAXdude1023 : Too far and the AA pilots would never go for it for any reasonable price. If ORD-SYD ever happens, it will come in the form of a QF 787 (one of the m
40 AT : But the range of a 77W is only very slightly more than a 772, isn't it? What destination is too far for a 772 but yet within the reach of a 77W?
41 delimit : Please provide some evidence that either EK or QR are making a profit. We'd all be dying to see it. To echo, finally a US customer, and yeah, these b
42 SXDFC : Will these Boeing 777-323ERs ( I like the sound of that! ) feature a new First Class product as well as a new economy product as well?
43 windian425 : Didn't see this coming but good news none the less.. Strange that its only for 2 birds! I guess we will see follow on orders at some stage.. Compensat
44 yellowtail : My bet for these are not S. america as that would "waste" the aircraft as they sit during the day. Would be relatively ineffecient use of 2 aircraft..
45 Post contains links United787 : Two years after announcing they will be ordering the 787, they haven't yet ordered it so I can't imagine they would be compensated for delays for som
46 aacun : AA has never been known for keeping a sub fleet (specially a fleet of 2 airplanes) for a long period of time.......... This order is for 2 but I agree
47 BlueSky1976 : Great news! Congratulations to American for buying THE best looking widebody aircraft, pun to the 747 fanatics fully intended!!! Makes me wanna say: c
48 Post contains links cloud4000 : For Emirates, here's an article from WSJ.com:
49 Post contains images Rising : Perhaps you will prefer signing an unemployment check? Very exciting news from AA. Fingers are crossed for Hong Kong.
50 tistpaa727 : Congrats! Great to see the 77W ordered by a US carrier. Regardless of the loss, AA will be around to accept delivery. Is this an intent to acquire or
51 cloud4000 : For Emirates, here's an article from WSJ.com dated November 1, 2010: An excerpt: DUBAI—Emirates Airline on Monday reported a more than four-fold in
52 MCOflyer : My bet is that AA has something up their sleeve. They would not order two as they only be deployed on one route at a rate 1.5 aircraft per route. My g
53 delimit : Where can I find detailed financials? Saying they made a profit is great, but I have no context for it. What are their expenses like? How much debt a
54 SPREE34 : Old news. I was posting in reference to the 773ER specifically, as that is the subject of the thread. Context.
55 Post contains links realsim : It isn't a firm order yet, but there is a Purchase Agreement between AMR and Boeing, you can see it here: http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/da...6201
56 catdaddy63 : IMHO, the carrot to dangle would be 100+100 C-Series operated by mainline. For all we know, this, or something similar, may already be on the table.
57 Post contains images fxramper : They'll use the a/c on MIA-TLV-DXB. I've been saying this for sometime.
58 CHRISBA777ER : This is a wonderful day - I'm absolutely delighted. Fingers crossed they buy a few more!!!
59 FSDan : Hmmm. Can a 77W make it from DFW to DXB or from MIA to DXB? Those are really the only new possibilities I can think of that they can't already reach w
60 Post contains links cloud4000 : Emirates' financials are available through their web site: http://www.emirates.com/us/english/a..._relations/investor_relations.aspx Qatar's, on the
61 UAL777UK : Never mind the AA loss, I am at a loss as to understand why they only ordered 2 77W. Surely there has to be more to this than meets the eye? Anyway, g
62 cloudyapple : If you are skeptical, you should be doing your own research to find out. Have you even tried? emirates.com for a start? I can get to all of their ann
63 Post contains links realsim : According to this, it should be able to do it with full passenger payload: http://www.boeing.com/commercial/777family/pf/777_range_dubai.pdf However,
64 FlyNWA727 : Wow! The speculations turned out to be true. I am really excited. Most the recent 77W orders have been sort of "ho-hum" to me. Mostly orders from exis
65 Caribb : Nice news from AA! Nice also to finally see an American carrier flying the "W"
66 Ychocky : Bring on the AA incarnation of the One World livery on these beauties.
67 Rising : Do you all think the the 773s will have the same seats and entertainment systems as on the current 772s?
68 TOMMY767 : Only 2? Com'on AA what kind of tease operation are you planning to pull off with only 2 77W??
69 IrishAyes : CX has HKG covered. If they hadn't announced the new ORD route, I might believe it, but not so much anymore. That could potentially mean that current
70 jfk777 : South Africa would be great from Miami, either by 772 or 77W. MIA-JNB-CPT-MIA would be my route since any 777 can fly from CPT to MIA. A 77W could do
71 fxramper : Horton said it'll give AA the ability to serve new international long-haul markets. I'd look to the Middle East or Asia for this sub-fleet utilization
72 kiwiandrew : Compensation for delays in an aircraft which AA still haven't officially ordered yet ? . Like a lot of posters I am puzzled at an airline the size of
73 ebbuk : From the flightglobal.com quote from AA ".....AMR president Tom Horton adds: "The seating capability of the aircraft will give us growth flexibility i
74 LAXintl : Well beyond the 777 news, here are some notes from the earning call. 4Q stuff: o 4Q loss - $97mil net o 4Q revenue grew 7.1% on 3.1% capacity growth.
75 einsteinboricua : Overall, a loss is a loss, but one modest loss this year compared to three times that the previous year...to me it's a sign that AA is starting to ge
76 mogandoCI : if AA is as conservative as they portray, it's hard to believe they'll use a plane larger than anything in their existing fleet to launch a new desti
77 LAXtoATL : Does this mean that they do not expect to reach agreements with pilots or flight attendants this year? Were the progress (or lack thereof) of the con
78 MAH4546 : Pure speculation on my part, but two 77Ws just isn't enough. Some long-haul routes even essentially require that an airline have three of the type to
79 United787 : Boeing's press release states that this is an exercised option...I would expect that it was converted from a 772ER option...
80 BMI727 : I'm not holding my breath. As far as QF/AA service from Australia to points east of the Rockies, I think it is an either ORD or DFW but probably not
81 Flighty : I think the union tease theory has some quality to it. AA could never get enough 77W secondhand to make this work. AA's true desire would be 25 frame
82 BMI727 : If they were used, I could understand it, much like the 747SPs they used in the early 90s while waiting for MD-11s. But buying only two brand new 77W
83 LAXintl : Yes the talks were briefly mentioned that the company continues to want to reach deals with its employees. However much of the timing now is in NMBs
84 jfklganyc : "2 new airplanes?? AA has a firm order for an additional 35 737-800's to be delivered this year and next. 45 new 737-800s were delivered in 2010. That
85 SESGDL : That would be far too much capacity, amounting to a double digit increase in ASMs. That would decimate yields on longhaul routes. I think these will
86 LAXintl : An analyst made a comment that is was unlikely for AA to turn a profit in 2011. I believe he mentioned they needed a 17% revenue bump for the year to
87 SESGDL : With fuel on the rise now, as well, AA will be hit especially hard, given that other carriers at least saw moderate profits this year. Jeremy
88 LAXdude1023 : Given that QF announced DFW-SYD, ORD-SYD is probably not likely. MIA-NRT: AA would never use a 77W for it. Way too much capacity and AA is way to con
89 LAXintl : I just read the employee letter Arpey sent out today. Note the specific reference made about 77W range. Sounds to me like these aircraft have a specif
90 BMI727 : Exactly. That ship sailed. I don't expect Arpey to try and explain the finer points of payload range performance in an employee newsletter. I'm not s
91 goldenstate : The other question is, does he have an agreement in his pocket from APA that will enable new 15+ hour flying?
92 LAXdude1023 : Youre probably right. I hope it involves Africa, but Im not holding my breath.
93 Post contains links and images N776AU : Aviation-Designs.Net:Design © Joe PerezTemplate © Gabe Pfeiffer
94 LAXtoATL : I wouldn't read to much into his statement in that newsletter. It sounds to me like he is just informing the employees of the capabilities of the 77W
95 elmothehobo : Expect to see the rest of the 777-300/ERs from one of several sources: 1. GECAS. After American finalized a deal last year that brought GE engines on
96 IrishAyes : LOVE THAT PIC! very good looking plane
97 MAH4546 : Hate to bring facts to your usual anti-AA rhetoric, but it is 5 738s added for every 3 MD80s parked, so its growth.
98 delimit : That's a whole lot of seats to put into a new market. I'm guessing with the JAL JV we'll see them flying into NRT, personaly.
99 MAH4546 : But in the case of flying to South Africa, it's an ample amount of seats for the market. The 77W is not too large.
100 Post contains images realsim : 76 new 738s delivered from MAR09, 48 S80s retired. And with the announced plans of an increase of 1% on domestic capacity and 7% on international cap
101 EMB170 : What about DFW-HKG? Would the 77W not be perfect for an important oneworld hub route that currently has no service?
102 OA412 : Like others, I am surprised by the fact that AA has chosen to order just 2 77W's. I think we can all agree that AA is highly unlikely to operate a sub
103 Post contains images DocLightning : We're aviation enthusaists! That's what we do! Who cares if they go BK as long as we get our shiny 77W in AA livery! A few weeks ago, I wrote a threa
104 EMB170 : Reason I suggest this is because of the global hub at DFW and the connecting opportunities it can offer not only AA but CX who would likely be codesh
105 Post contains images delimit : Possible I guess, but we're talking practically 744 capacity here. That's a whole lot of seats for a new market, although if it's included in the BA
106 LAXdude1023 : Its not a small local market, but I dont think thats what these planes are for.
107 goldenstate : Not even remotely close to being true. I hope their fleet people did their due diligence on what it will cost to support a GE90-110 fleet, especially
108 MAH4546 : But let's assume AA is interested in South Africa - who knows when the 787s are coming? Meanwhile, there are only 14 unavailable U.S.-South Africa fr
109 delimit : I don't think anyone honestly believes AA plans on operating a fleet of 2 77Ws. We're going to have to agree to disagree, and really I should bow to
110 aacun : That is exactly what is being said here..... This is probably the first of a much bigger order yet to come. I think AA is actually a very smart compa
111 TOMMY767 : It's still S80 heaven down in DFW. I'm also surprised by the delivery slowdown. They still have a ton of old S80s!
112 SEPilot : While I am delighted to see an American carrier finally order the 77W, and I respect AA for not having gone bankrupt, I do wonder about their fiscal s
113 Post contains images LAXdude1023 : I also think AA is too conservative. I dont see AA going to Africa when there are more seats to be thrown into LHR and NRT. It is getting better. Mar
114 OA412 : Like others have mentioned, I seriously doubt that the 77W fleet will remain at 2 aircraft. That said, I doubt it's really going to be an issue since
115 AA777223 : I think this makes really good sense too... just sayin'. Firstly, the 77W flies with GE90-11[b]5[b/]s. And I have a feeling that AA has a few people,
116 Post contains links and images speedbird380 : This is fantastic news! Good to finally see a US operator of the impressive 77W. She will definitely look stunning for sure: Aviation-Designs.Net:Desi
117 commavia : Assuming Cathay remains in oneworld long-term, and It is only a matter of time, and especially if AA and Cathay eventually do an ATI/JV (which of cou
118 jbmitt : Does AA still maintain DLs 772 Rolls engines? Perhaps DL will handle the GE 115 mx work for AA until the build a fleet of scale to handle on their own
119 American 767 : And it will be so for another five years or more, till at least 2015. ORD also is S80 heaven although not as much as DFW is. Some of them are not so
120 CFBFrame : Then how do you ever expect the airline to be profitable? CO is far more profitable, DL has been making moves in the right direction, and UA will be
121 goldenstate : Because I know about doing business with GEAE. While I agree that AA will have to enlarge the fleet to bring unit maintenance costs down to a palatab
122 LAXdude1023 : Chapter 11.
123 SonomaFlyer : The AA loss is inconsistent with the industry trends. It looks like they are doing what they can in the CASM category with the retirement of S80's and
124 hiflyer : Not sure this hasn't thrown more fuel on the APA fire. Agreed 2 frames does not a fleet make. Think there is a lot more to that 'they became avail and
125 PVG : I recently flew with AA on international C class for the first time in many years. I can certainly understand why they lose money. Their service stan
126 elmothehobo : I'd gander that it's quite close to the truth. If you remember way back in 2000, American made quite a big stink about Boeing choosing General Electr
127 LAXdude1023 : Of course it took DL to go though Chapter 11 and a management overhaul. AA could use both.
128 1337Delta764 : DL doesn't do their own engine maintenance for their 77Ls; part of the 77L/77W purchase agreement is for GE to provide the maintenance on the engines
129 futureuscapt : For 2011, maybe. Certainly not for 2010 though. Even if that is the case for 2011, I think it would be much more appropriate fitting to say that the
130 MAH4546 : I wasn't using it for 2011, nor 2010. There have been 76 737-800s delivered and 47 S80s parked since the renewal started. So, again, 3 S80s added for
131 futureuscapt : When did the renewal start and what other mainline fleet types may have been eliminated/reduced since? The reason I ask is because mainline ASMs were
132 Post contains images realsim : Here you have: That means that the maximum scheduled duty time is 16 hours when flying with 4 pilots. You have to include 1:00 hour of reporting time
133 ckfred : Assuming that AA will get more than 2 777-300ERs, what routes out of ORD might AA eventually schedule the 77W?
134 MAH4546 : April 2009. A300 parkings.
135 Post contains images jfklganyc : "Hate to bring facts to your usual anti-AA rhetoric, but it is 5 738s added for every 3 MD80s parked, so its growth." Dude, I am not anti AA, but some
136 MAH4546 : The poster makes an accurate points. S80s retirements have been nowhere near 1:1. In 2011, AA forecasts growth of 1% domestic and 7% international. L
137 SPREE34 : "Power by the hour" See above. They managed with a small fleet of PW powered 757s.
138 ripcordd : I wonder if they will order the 772LR I was assuming they never did cause of GE but with a 773 order that goes out the window. Now the diff in range b
139 futureuscapt : Sorry, but that was exactly my point - there's no way that is the case. Seeing as the last AA A300 was retired in fall 2009, you can't tell me that A
140 realsim : Well, since the beginning we were talking (at least I was) about the 738 / S80 replacement. But here are the other numbers: AA retired 28 S80s in 200
141 JDAirCEO : Unless I missed it, what are the speculations on the number of seats? Lets assume it will be a three cabin aircraft. Maybe AA will look at moving the
142 MSPNWA : I have to agree that only 2 77Ws is a little different, but good to see nonetheless. It will probably lead to more, and that's an aircraft that AA cou
143 Post contains images Aaron747 : JAL will continue shrinking for the forseeable future. Their domestic consumer confidence is shot, they cannot compete in the regional marketplace, t
144 AA767400 : I wonder the same thing. It has to be better than the current product. Will a new product in all classes be introduced on the 77W, before the 787? Wo
145 SPREE34 : ?? And, your point would be....?
146 DTWAGENT : Well, if they are looking at Dubai and Tel Avie. Then they would be using the new birds on these route. I would allow them to move more pass. and carg
147 CFBFrame : GE will need to do something because DL, UA/CO, and now AA will be operating GE-90 engines. GE does like to control manitenance of their engines, and
148 goldenstate : So are you suggesting that as a result of the pre-existing business agreement between AA and GE, GE now decided to agree to engine/parts support term
149 Aaron747 : You can't compare the two - particularly in reference to any agreements reached for PW powerplants on 757s. See reply 148.
150 LipeGIG : Thanks for sharing. Interesting to see that Latin America continues to lead in yields. It depends on how AA will configure them but we, in general, ex
151 sxf24 : You can count frames whatever way you like, but the reality is that AA has seen little to no growth in the domestic market where narrowbody aircraft
152 MAH4546 : Fail to see what is so "LOL" about O'Hare-Bombay. Unless you think AA's ORD-DEL route is also "LOL." Domestic, no, real growth is not planned - just
153 centrair : This is exciting! With only two aircraft, wouldn't they basically be using it on one route? ...something that needs capacity and range. Maybe DFW-JFK
154 lucky777 : I wish it were true as well...but i just don't see it happening any time soon. With the 16 747's getting nose-to-tail AVOD and the new lie-flat busin
155 Pellegrine : 2?! 777-300ERs? Why Bother? Also, AA's conservative strategy dictate that they won't use a 77W to open up a new route... Especially to TLV or DXB. Som
156 AeroWesty : Missed by a number of posters. It was explained during the earnings call: Perhaps another airline was selling the planes/production positions at a pr
157 ojas : Wouldn't a B77W on ORD - BOM be several constrained?
158 LipeGIG : May be replacing 3 B772 in a current route with 80% LF with 2 B77W... which in my view is smart use of the 77W.
159 Pellegrine : I didn't miss anything. Blah blah, a lot of conference calls are SEC formalities and a lot of blah blah blah. **They have ample flexibility with Boei
160 SEPilot : It is my observation and experience that unions are a tremendous drag on any business-it is not so much the wages as the work rules which make the co
161 tom355uk : If only unions around the world would realise that, everybody would be better off. They are going to crucify us in the UK this year, and nobody seems
162 LAXtoATL : Spot on analysis.
163 crosswinds21 : Makes sense to me. Like you said, unions want to have contracts that pay them the most while also letting them do as little work as possible. The log
164 TOMMY767 : Routes like DFW-EWR/BWI/IAD/PHL etc are still slaves to the S80!
165 LAXdude1023 : Give it a couple of years, that wont be the case.
166 1337Delta764 : My guess is that it will probably be the Panasonic eX2 system. AA has Panasonic IFE systems installed on a few aircraft, such as on the international
167 CHRISBA777ER : 77W - I'm chuffed to bits. I can see it working excellently for AA. As others have said i dont see them doing JFK-LHR as these are likely to be the fi
168 AirNZ : Could you please clarify that you are saying that doesn't apply to anyone on this planet? I just want to be sure here between reality and fantasy. Ag
169 ckfred : Can you blame the unions for how things are today? No, except for the pilots nixing the DFW-China route. Management proposed pay scales that would ke
170 crosswinds21 : Yes, I'd be happy to. I'm actually surprised that a pro-union person such as yourself needs a clarification. The larger that unions are in size, the
171 Post contains images Acey559 : They better be careful and make sure not to tailstrike their brand new, extra long jets! All joking aside, it's nice to see the first US order for thi
172 CFBFrame : Are you sure the word "evolve" is correct? What you've described is the market as it has been for many years. Not sure we've seen many widebodies bei
173 CHRISBA777ER : Wonder if the JAL 77W rumour has anything to it then - given than this turned out to be true. Perhaps AA are taking a few more from JL to bolster the
174 SEPilot : By no means am I saying that it is exclusive to unions. It is, as you say, human nature. The problem is that unions have acquired far too much power,
175 goldenstate : Please reread. Continue to evolve is what I wrote. I made reference to the US market as a whole, not US domestic. There aren't many places left where
176 CFBFrame : So are you in the engine management business? If you explain how GE was brought to the table on the cfm56-7 program, which has the same business mode
177 SEPilot : What this ignores is the fact that GE may not be as shortsighted as you and others seem to think. Yes, GE has a monopoly on engines for the 77L/77W,
178 LipeGIG : It depends Chris. AA can, together with BA, just impose a little higher period of time between JFK-LHR flights and replace 3 B772 flights with just 2
179 goldenstate : I'm in the making money business. I didn't learn this stuff by playing Flight Simulator. I don't agree that the CFM56-7 and GE90-110/115 "have the sa
180 LAXtoATL : Possibly, but highly unlikely. First of all these 2 won't join the fleet until the end of next year so additional frames are not likely to join this
181 CFBFrame : In all of your posts. Where you're going with your theory indicates that only the large fleet operators get the best deals, and the only reason that
182 klkla : I remember a quote from an AA executive a couple years ago saying that they have an agreement with Boeing that they can get guaranteed delivery of an
183 MAH4546 : People seem to forget that AA has 772s set for delivery in the first quarter of 2013. I think it's pretty obvious that those won't be 772s when they a
184 LipeGIG : There's no doubt for me that we will see more frames. I believe AA, up to the next quarters results, and when they improve it, will invest more in 77
185 LAXtoATL : This is more likely than not, but you originally said you believe they would get more frames this year. AA won't even see these two frames this year,
186 MAH4546 : Airlines don't order planes for "evaluation purposes." AA has seven 772s coming starting January 2013. As I've said, I truly doubt they will be 772s
187 goldenstate : Where specifically did I say they are out to screw people. No giveaways is not the same as screwing. GE provides a unique product of exceptionally hi
188 realsim : I think that's pretty clear: AA always makes announcements of this sort during earning calls to distract the main attention from the results. It's ju
189 N62NA : Didn't Eastern Airlines start out with just 4 A300 to "evaluate" them?
190 FlyAA757 : Yes, in 1978. Things are very different now...
191 N62NA : Of course things are different now... and similar too. I don't believe AA ordered the 77Ws purely to "evaluate" them, however MAH4546's comment Airli
192 alitalia744 : Are we, anywhere in this thread, going to talk the financial results, or are we fixated on the fact that they ordered 2 77Ws and the corresponding con
193 jfk777 : AA for some reason has a history of ordering an initial first few planes when ordering a new type and then getting many more. When they ordered few M
194 Delimit : Yes. Airlines are even more hesitant about making large capital expenditures that don't make financial sense. I think the chances that more 77Ws won'
195 DFWEagle : Fantastic news for AA. The Boeing 777-300ER is an excellent aircraft, which is very capable and economical, and will give AA new opportunities for int
196 jfk777 : AA may take a direction that surprises us all with the 777-300ER. Not the Middle East, South Africa, Europe, South America or Asia. What about Austral
197 gigneil : Only in one direction. Going back to the US from Sydney they'd probably be restricted. NS
198 BOACCunard : Why would AA do that when QF has just announced the route?
199 jfk777 : Because the QF 744 stops in Brisbane going there and AA doesn't fly any of its own planes to Australia. This would be a way for AA to fly to Sydney.
200 Post contains images Flighty : Long time no see. Welcome welcome.
201 AABB777 : This is not going to happen. AA will use the two birds on routes that have yet to be announced, but DFWSYD isn't going to be one of them. With that s
202 Post contains links LAXintl : AA is asking the pilots union for relief in work-rules to allow it to operate the 77W fleet on longer missions than currently allowed by contract. In
203 OA412 : Not surprising. In fact, I believe I replied to this thread suggesting that ordering only 2 77W's was going to be used as a carrot to dangle in front
204 DFWEagle : Now is a very good time to address this issue. Relations with management have been improving since the new leadership was elected at APA, and contrac
205 Post contains links aaway : I know I felt at the time of the announcement (October '10) that the AA-Jetstar codeshare/interline agreement was an 'out of left field' play, but IM
206 LAXtoATL : Seems like you nailed that one. I doubt that the pilot's union would actually agree to any exceptions considering they are in ongoing negotiations on
207 MileHighOffice : Makes perfect sense for AA to add additional capacity to existing heavy traffic routes into slot-constrained airports. They have plenty of solid route
208 Post contains images gigneil : Howdy. Good to be back. You are indeed correct. Despite any deficiencies in fuel burn or structure weight, an A340-600 can get off the ground with mo
209 WestWing : A point of note. The Boeing Orders and Deliveries site was updated for January and still shows the unfilled seven 77Es that AA had on order. So none o
210 Post contains images deltal1011man : No, that is AA's point. They know everyone will look at the two airplanes vs the no so great numbers. I wish Delta would do that....think of all the
211 Post contains links DFWEagle : I’m pretty sure that the initial announcement was for two only and this article says the same thing: http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...us-laun
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