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N185UA (Boeing 747-400) Now Being Scrapped  
User currently offlinen471wn From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1537 posts, RR: 2
Posted (3 years 8 months 5 hours ago) and read 26282 times:
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Sadly it appears that after numerous attempts to place this proud bird have failed, she will be scrapped at MZJ with just 44,000 hours on her frame and just over 5500 cycles.......what a pity as she was flown from VCV to Pusan and then to MZJ----tells a story that her parts are worth more than her whole but still a shame as she would have been an excellent freighter conversion candidate.

62 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBA174 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 760 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 8 months 5 hours ago) and read 26143 times:

Isn't this the one that was stored since post 9/11? Not a huge surprise.

User currently offlinen471wn From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1537 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (3 years 8 months 5 hours ago) and read 26031 times:
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Quoting BA174 (Reply 1):

Isn't this the one that was stored since post 9/11? Not a huge surprise.

Yes but it did fly several times as I said in my note and was properly stored but my point is while not a huge surprise still a shame. It simply could not find a viable buyer and was even painted in a new livery for a failed attempt.


User currently offlineMSPNWA From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1944 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (3 years 8 months 5 hours ago) and read 25941 times:

That's a shame that such a youthful airplane never found a new, successful operator.

User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8565 posts, RR: 13
Reply 4, posted (3 years 8 months 5 hours ago) and read 25882 times:
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Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 3):
That's a shame that such a youthful airplane never found a new, successful operator.

I guess that 18 years isn't ancient for a 747 , but I am not sure that I would describe it as "youthful" either .



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlinecloud4000 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 641 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 8 months 5 hours ago) and read 25832 times:

The question to ask is: why such a young aircraft could not find an operator? Is there low demand for 744s, either in passenger or freighter configuration? Price too steep? Needed a D-check and nobody wanted to pay for it?

Seems like more questions than answers.



Boston, USA
User currently offlineMSPNWA From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1944 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (3 years 8 months 5 hours ago) and read 25807 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 4):
I guess that 18 years isn't ancient for a 747 , but I am not sure that I would describe it as "youthful" either .

I'm thinking along the lines of about 9 years of age and 44K hours of use when it saw its last revenue service.


User currently offlinedesediez From Germany, joined Oct 2006, 79 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 8 months 4 hours ago) and read 25654 times:

unbeliveable! only 44k hours. This is nearly next to new...

User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8372 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (3 years 8 months 4 hours ago) and read 25634 times:
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What a shame, DL could certainly use an extra P&W powered 744. This plane has 10 yaers left.

User currently offlineBirdwatching From Germany, joined Sep 2003, 3822 posts, RR: 51
Reply 9, posted (3 years 8 months 4 hours ago) and read 25391 times:

If you divide the purchase price by 5500 cycles, is there even a remote chance that this aircraft was ever profitable? Or if you divide the purchase price by 44K hours? Can somebody do the math here?

Soren   



All the things you probably hate about travelling are warm reminders that I'm home
User currently offlinepoz2brs From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (3 years 8 months 3 hours ago) and read 25147 times:

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 9):
If you divide the purchase price by 5500 cycles, is there even a remote chance that this aircraft was ever profitable? Or if you divide the purchase price by 44K hours? Can somebody do the math here?

Not sure what the historical prices for the 744 were, but say $200M is a sensible ballpark figure, that would equate to purchase costs alone in excess of $4500 per hour of flight. I'm not optimistic that N185UA ever made a profit as a single frame, though I'm sure UA's 744 fleet as a whole has served them well.


User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 6907 posts, RR: 46
Reply 11, posted (3 years 8 months 3 hours ago) and read 25019 times:

Does this plane have any damage history, or anything like that? I would think it would have found a home as a freighter unless there was something particularly unattractive about that particular airplane.


The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlineAdmiralRitt From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 25 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 8 months 3 hours ago) and read 24973 times:

C'mon DC9-50 fans, I know you are just itching to post that

table comparing cycle limits of the DC-9-50 versus this 744

and post that total number of service years of the oldest DC9-50 as well.


User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (3 years 8 months 2 hours ago) and read 24815 times:

The answer is easy.. it all comes down to cost. If you can lease one of several planes for say $30,000 a month and this one is $50,000 a month which one are you going to choose..? I'm sure the lease rate was way above the current market.


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineBirdwatching From Germany, joined Sep 2003, 3822 posts, RR: 51
Reply 14, posted (3 years 8 months 2 hours ago) and read 24815 times:

But then again, scrapped does not mean given away, I assume the engines alone are worth a lot and are probably finding new owners?

Soren   



All the things you probably hate about travelling are warm reminders that I'm home
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25357 posts, RR: 49
Reply 15, posted (3 years 8 months 2 hours ago) and read 24233 times:

Come on guys. The 744 is yesterdays plane.

Aircraft live and die based on their economics.
The 744 simply is not a compelling enough case for many these days.

Time moves forward, so lets embrace progress.

[Edited 2011-01-20 15:01:21]


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineBA174 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 760 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 8 months 2 hours ago) and read 24165 times:

Quoting poz2brs (Reply 10):
I'm not optimistic that N185UA ever made a profit as a single frame, though I'm sure UA's 744 fleet as a whole has served them well.

It was only ever a leased bird and not UA owned so depending on the leasing costs it may have made a profit as a single frame.


User currently offlineRonaldo747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 8 months 2 hours ago) and read 24091 times:

Isn't that the frame with the fire in the APU section (while in storage at VCV)? It's a shame, though.

User currently offlineindcwby From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 135 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 years 8 months 2 hours ago) and read 24039 times:

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Unite...d=d4e520e4fe9aabb0498917443c2f266c

I didn't look at the flight history since 2004, but the last flight was 7/22/09. Based off the photo in a.net photo archives, she had some work done to fly her again.

Aircraft Boeing 747-400 (quad-jet) (H/B744)
Origin Kona Intl At Keahole (PHKO / KOA)
Destination Pinal Airpark (KMZJ)
Route MYNAH V11 UPP DEREC R578 FITES R578 FICKY C1177 MALIT C1156 MZB J2 GBN V94 TOTEC
Date Wednesday, July 22 2009
Duration 5 hours 11 minutes


User currently offlinemav75 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 228 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (3 years 8 months 1 hour ago) and read 23373 times:

Does anyone know if this is the first 744 to be scrapped?

User currently offlineUATulipfan From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 159 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (3 years 8 months 1 hour ago) and read 22977 times:

Quoting mav75 (Reply 19):

It's not. The first I believe was an NZ 744 and a couple QF are due to be scrapped. This is the first UA 744 to be scrapped, though.



Long live the Tulip! The logo of the REAL United Airlines.
User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10733 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (3 years 8 months 1 hour ago) and read 22823 times:

Quoting mav75 (Reply 19):
Does anyone know if this is the first 744 to be scrapped?

No, the first 744 scrapped was Air NZs first one which was broken up earlier last year. Currently there are also 3 ex-AF 744s and the JAL-744Ds which are in various stages of dismantling or destined for it.
If N185UA will be broken up indeed, its by far the youngest in flight hours though and will likely keep that dubious record for long. Any 747 being dismantled before it has passed 100.000 Hrs dies too young.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 15):
Come on guys. The 744 is yesterdays plane.

And still today´s for a long time to come.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 15):
Aircraft live and die based on their economics.

Thats why even the first 777s are facing the torch.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 15):
Time moves forward, so lets embrace progress.

Sure, welcome to the 748I and A380.


User currently offlinetrintocan From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2000, 3238 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (3 years 8 months 1 hour ago) and read 22569 times:

It's sad to see the slow decline of the 747-400. If one spots at LHR now and compares the scene with say 5 years ago the decline of the 744 is painfully obvious. Many airlines have turned over to the 777-300ER (in particular), A380 or other models from the Jumbo and, while BA's jets still soldier on, relatively few come around in other liveries. A real shame as it is still a solid performer but alas, time marches on.

Expect to see more 747-400s go down in the next few years. Sadly, this plane with a history of 10 years of storage would have been an unlikely candidate to return to any service - what with newer models being stood down and placed for sale. Even if its cycle age were low, its chronological age is still high and that still has a part to play.

Trintocan.



Hop to it, fly for life!
User currently offlineBennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7605 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (3 years 8 months 1 hour ago) and read 22524 times:

Why did it not return to service years ago?.

User currently onlineav8ajet From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1348 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (3 years 8 months ago) and read 22282 times:

Quoting mav75 (Reply 19):
Does anyone know if this is the first 744 to be scrapped?

What about the China Airlines or was it Air China in Hong Kong that slipped into the water.



"To fly or not to fly there is no question!"
25 CX Flyboy : There is also a CX one, B-HOO beng scrapped in VCV as we speak.
26 bthebest : Yeah but i think we're talking about airworthy examples.
27 na : As much as I heard B-HOO, one of the very first 744s built in 1989, will be scrapped by the end of 2011.
28 CX Flyboy : There is a photo of it already missing all 4 engines and some other parts so the process has begun.
29 Post contains images Aaron747 : They never even asked me if I wanted it
30 QF744ER : The odd thing about N185UA is some websites list it as being owned by Orient Thai along with fellow stored B744 N187UA. Also with regards to the QF B7
31 UATulipfan : N187UA is still owned by United. It was the last of the 6 to be retired before N194UA was brought back until recently.
32 andrewuber : N185UA is probably among the least photographed 747's in this database, with only seven pics. While it is sad to see, there are quite a few 747-400's
33 Post contains images NWAROOSTER : N185UA was or is still owned by Wells Fargo Bank of Salt Lake, UT. They are a leasing company and storing an unused aircraft for years costs money and
34 Bottie : And not a single picture in the Blue Sky c/s
35 FX1816 : If so they are doing it very slowly but as of Wednesday afternoon there is still no 744's in the scrapping area at VCV. Besides just missing the engi
36 Post contains links LAXintl : Voila... http://members.airliners.be/albums/u...pics/normal_N185UA-KMZJ-051209.jpg
37 AndrewUber : Nice looking c/s! What is "Blue Sky"? Yet another startup that didn't quite start up? I did a quick search and didn't come up with much. Nice pic, yo
38 n471wn : But this a/c had over 100,000 hours!! Because the leasing company failed to do what it should have done and leased it out at a reasonable price----it
39 BA174 : Don't forget that G-BNLC at CWL defiantly looks like a tin can candidate with missing winglets, forward doors and no engines. I think it's being eaten
40 DUSdude : WF is not a leasing company. They act as trust administrator for leases that are structured such that the legal owner of the aircraft is a trust. The
41 n471wn : Well in this case they took a beating....
42 LAXintl : Not so sure about that. Many of these aircraft are very efficient tax reduction vehicles for their owners. Did you know Disney, Verizon and all types
43 Bottie : Was used as a donor for 2 other ex-UA 744's and it was a 1st generation 744 ... She's already standing on wood iso own landing-gear ... will be goon s
44 n471wn : Thanks and you remind me of what I had forgotten--so not a lot of motivation to place her either way it appears please the visual is too painful
45 Post contains images Bottie : It isn't a pretty sight
46 CharlieNoble : Andrew - apparently they are an Armenian Charter operation working on behalf of Mahan in Iran. At least that is what I've been able to scrounge from
47 n471wn : Any pictures you can share?
48 cslusarc : In addition to N185UA, there are 6 other Boeing 747-422s stored according to planespotters.net. Does anyone know more about the current ownership sta
49 ltbewr : I would suggest that the parts value of this a/c could make it worth more scrapped now than return to flight. While this a/c is a -400, it is an earli
50 UATulipfan : Those 6 are owned by UA and were up for sale at one point, but there are rumors that they may be coming back to the fleet. N194UA was recently flying
51 CX Flyboy : Is this for the Sonair contract?...or to be converted to a freighter?
52 UATulipfan : It's not being converted to freighter since it's only being leased.
53 747classic : The age and the total hours/cycles flown are not the only the decisive figures, on a secondhand aircraft survey. In fact there are many older aircraft
54 Post contains images kl911 : How much would a totally stripped down 747 frame cost? I would like one in my garden. ( Well, I have to ask the neighbours if I can use part of their
55 lotsamiles : Transitioning a UA aircraft to another operator outside the US (N-reg) can be very costly. UA's recordkeeping policy is bare minimum to meet the FAR's
56 scorpy : would you mind expanding a little here? For example what DER repairs are, PMA parts, AMOCs etc? thanks!
57 lotsamiles : DER = Designated Engineering Representative, and engineer qualified by the FAA to approve data. Basically, rather then use the OEM (Original Equipment
58 SEPilot : I take it from your post that you know this from firsthand knowledge; you do not state your occupation but by inference I assume that it involves air
59 lotsamiles : Yes, I am knowledgeable in this subject. Let me be clear - I make no claim that UA is not meeting the requirements of the FAR's - they are. However,
60 SEPilot : In that case, I would think that the lessors would require minimum paperwork and maintenance standards, or increase their lease rates. And I do under
61 lotsamiles : The lessors are getting smarter in this area and these points are a negotiation in every lease agreement. One problem with many of the UA leases (and
62 scorpy : Thanks... that was really helpful. So essentially It means that UA are able to do get some alternative ways of repairing the aircraft agreed to by th
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