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GRU Busiest In Latin America  
User currently offlineRafabozzolla From Brazil, joined Apr 2000, 1235 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 9 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4990 times:

According to wikipedia (I must confess I didn't go to the trouble of checking individual airports websites), GRU handled 26,774,546 pax in 2010 and MEX handled 24,130,535 pax.

If the numbers are correct, GRU has become Latin America's busiest airport. Impressive, especially considering that there are two airports serving São Paulo (Congonhas - CGH, handled 15, 481, 370, making a total of 42.255.916 for São Paulo).

Also interesting to notice that airports ranked 5th (SDU), 6th (SSA) and 7th (CNF) in Brazil are pretty close together having been responsible for 7.8M, 7.5M and 7.3M pax each.

30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinesampa737 From Brazil, joined May 2005, 637 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (3 years 9 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4995 times:

There are 3. Don't forget Viracopos (Campinas) which is hub to Azul. Plus there's been talk of a 4th airport. Garulhos is growing so fast, it can't keep up. It is overcrowded, very drab. I THINK Congonhas was busiest until the TAM crash a few years back.

User currently offlineRafabozzolla From Brazil, joined Apr 2000, 1235 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 9 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4966 times:

Quoting sampa737 (Reply 1):
There are 3. Don't forget Viracopos (Campinas) which is hub to Azul.

I personally don't agree that VCP serves the city of São Paulo. If so I would have had to consider Toluca's numbers for Mexico City. But that discussion is up for grabs.

Quoting sampa737 (Reply 1):
I THINK Congonhas was busiest until the TAM crash a few years back.

Not really. CGH was at one point, the busiest in Brazil, but the lead for Latin America had (until 2010), belonged to MEX


User currently offlinesampa737 From Brazil, joined May 2005, 637 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (3 years 9 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4709 times:

Azul busses people from Sao Paulo to VCP and relies heavily on the city for business. This comes from someone who simply reads the news, not an expert. I just remember reading in the Folha some time back how the city has 3 airports with commercial flights. I've lived in Sao Paulo 9 years and have never been to this particular airport. Isn't it more of a cargo airport?

User currently offlinenetjetsintl From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 593 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 9 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 4629 times:

Even though the information on wikipedia is not 100% accurate, this would not surprime me at all.... With Mexicana's shaninagans and the Brazilian economy booming, this is bound to happen if it hasn't already.... Less than half of Mexicana's flying has been replaced... perfect opportunity for GRU to pass MEX, not that it means a whole lot

User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3711 posts, RR: 19
Reply 5, posted (3 years 9 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4342 times:

Quoting netjetsintl (Reply 4):
Even though the information on wikipedia is not 100% accurate, this would not surprime me at all.... With Mexicana's shaninagans and the Brazilian economy booming, this is bound to happen if it hasn't already.... Less than half of Mexicana's flying has been replaced... perfect opportunity for GRU to pass MEX, not that it means a whole lot

That was already expected even with MX intact, since GRU grew 23,23% in 2010.

[Edited 2011-01-23 11:07:04]

User currently offlinedc10srule From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 172 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 9 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3970 times:

Quoting Rafabozzolla (Reply 2):
I personally don't agree that VCP serves the city of São Paulo. If so I would have had to consider Toluca's numbers for Mexico City. But that discussion is up for grabs.

As many of you probably know, before GRU was built, VCP was THE international gateway into the SAO PAULO area.
(I remember flying Braniff 747 service from JFK to VCP in the mid 70s.)
Later on when GIG was built (but still pre GRU), many airlines served RIO and then SAO PAULO passengers just connected on one of many flights to CGH. (I remember flying AR 747 from JFK to GIG and connecting to a VASP A300 to CGH - sweet.)

Also, If I'm not mistaken, didn't the Guiness Book list VCP as the "farthest" airport serving a particular city citing the 60+ KM distance from Sao Paulo to Campinas? Ironically, I think CGH was the "closest" airport serving a city so SAO PAULO had the distinction of having both the closest and farthest airports serving its customers.

Any plans to add a new pier at GRU - sure looks like there is enough room. Also, any aircraft movement totals available.
Just want to compare to my home airport (YYZ) where we moved almost 500,000 flights last year (490K+).

Take Care!



Giggity-Giggity..!
User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (3 years 9 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3912 times:

Quoting dc10srule (Reply 6):
Also, If I'm not mistaken, didn't the Guiness Book list VCP as the "farthest" airport serving a particular city citing the 60+ KM distance from Sao Paulo to Campinas? Ironically, I think CGH was the "closest" airport serving a city so SAO PAULO had the distinction of having both the closest and farthest airports serving its customers.

VCP is further away from city center than NRT to Tokyo ? It takes 1:20 on the narita express train (with a single stop at downtown Tokyo) just to get from the airport to Shinjuku

there are airports even further, but only in Ryanair's definition that the airport actually serves the city


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3711 posts, RR: 19
Reply 8, posted (3 years 9 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3868 times:

Quoting dc10srule (Reply 6):

Well, GIG is older than VCP and was the sole Brazilian primary gateway until the early '90s. Back then, VCP only received a handful of international flights per week, and many were routed through GIG. VCP is located 99 km from São Paulo, but CGH cannot be considered the nearest airport, since SDU is located in Rio's city centre, so its distance can be considered 0 km. It's located right next to the city's foundation site.


User currently offlineRafabozzolla From Brazil, joined Apr 2000, 1235 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (3 years 9 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3824 times:

I'd say Azul is pushing it calling Viracopos a São Paulo airport since, until it set foot there (with the exception of the odd int'l flight pre GRU), VCP survived on its own catchment area around Campinas and the heavy industrial business in the area.

User currently offlinedc10srule From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 172 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 9 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3798 times:

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 8):
Well, GIG is older than VCP and was the sole Brazilian primary gateway until the early '90s. Back then, VCP only received a handful of international flights per week, and many were routed through GIG. VCP is located 99 km from São Paulo, but CGH cannot be considered the nearest airport, since SDU is located in Rio's city centre, so its distance can be considered 0 km. It's located right next to the city's foundation site.

Apologies for my inaccuracy - did not research the dates these airports opened - only related them to the routing I took as a 7 year old flying home to see Grandma  

I guess GIG was primary but not the "sole" gateway - if I understand your point correctly as I remember KLM operating at VCP into the 80s (IIRC they did not stop in Rio.) What year did GIG & VCP each begin receiving international flights?

With respect to whether SDU or CGH is closer to the city centre, SAO PAULO is so large (as is RIO) what are they using to define the "core" of the city? I'm not familiar with RIo at all but I have been to SP many times - I would guess Praca da Se would be a symbolic centre?? In that case CGH is several KMs from there.

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 7):
VCP is further away from city center than NRT to Tokyo ?

According to Wikipedia (yes I know) - Narita is approximately 60KM from Tokyo which is less than the Sao Paulo - VCP distance. Must be a slow express train.



Giggity-Giggity..!
User currently offlineincitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4030 posts, RR: 13
Reply 11, posted (3 years 9 months 3 days ago) and read 3644 times:

Quoting Rafabozzolla (Reply 2):
I personally don't agree that VCP serves the city of São Paulo. If so I would have had to consider Toluca's numbers for Mexico City. But that discussion is up for grabs.

My suggestion is that you approach this question not with a YES/NO answer, but as a matter of degree.

There are no hard boundaries for airport catchment areas. From down below Morumbi/Pinheiros many people head up the Marginal towards the Tiete river. Once the access to Bandeirantes is reached, going to VCP is not that much more time compared to heading on Marginal Tiete to GRU. On bad Marginal times, VCP is reached faster. I frequently ask my SP friends about VCP, and the ones who live/work in the area I mentioned tend to be evenly split GRU/VCP preference.

Besides serving SP capital, VCP is becoming more and more the airport of choice for the area within the quadrangle Piracicaba/Jundiai/Sorocaba/Atibaia. This area is wealthy and generates a lot of traffic. Before Azul, a lot of this traffic used CGH/GRU.

Quoting dc10srule (Reply 6):
As many of you probably know, before GRU was built, VCP was THE international gateway into the SAO PAULO area.

However, before GRU, VCP had been emptied somewhat as the preferred access to SP was through quick connections between GIG and CGH with customs performed at CGH.

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 8):
Well, GIG is older than VCP and was the sole Brazilian primary gateway until the early '90s. Back then, VCP only received a handful of international flights per week, and many were routed through GIG.

In the heydays of VCP PanAm had nonstops there.

I have a list of everything in VCP in 1980 and the airport had 61 international movements per week, not a handful. I know, some think Rio is the greatest! Yes, in some things I agree, especially beach-side! As I see it, in 1980 VCP was past its prime.



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User currently offlineAF022 From France, joined Dec 2003, 2162 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (3 years 9 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3539 times:

What is the status of slots at GRU? Is there a website that shows what hours are closed?

User currently offlineRodRB From Brazil, joined Feb 2010, 125 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 9 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3503 times:

Quoting AF022 (Reply 12):

What is the status of slots at GRU? Is there a website that shows what hours are closed?

Try this one: http://www.anac.gov.br/HOTRAN/pesquisa_slot.asp?sg_aerodromo=SBGR


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3711 posts, RR: 19
Reply 14, posted (3 years 9 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3407 times:

Quoting dc10srule (Reply 10):
I guess GIG was primary but not the "sole" gateway

It was the sole primary. All others were secondary. Today, both GIG and GRU are primary gateways.

Quoting dc10srule (Reply 10):
What year did GIG & VCP each begin receiving international flights?

For GIG, it's difficult to say, since the transition from SDU is not really well documented, but it was sometime after WWII. I wouldn't know about VCP besides the fact that it was after 1960, when the airport began to have its runway extended.

Quoting dc10srule (Reply 10):
I would guess Praca da Se would be a symbolic centre??

Yes, exactly.

Quoting dc10srule (Reply 10):
if I understand your point correctly as I remember KLM operating at VCP into the 80s (IIRC they did not stop in Rio.)
Quoting incitatus (Reply 11):
In the heydays of VCP PanAm had nonstops there.

I said many, not all of them.

Quoting incitatus (Reply 11):
I have a list of everything in VCP in 1980 and the airport had 61 international movements per week, not a handful.

Please, enlighten us.


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3711 posts, RR: 19
Reply 15, posted (3 years 9 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3399 times:

Quoting dc10srule (Reply 6):
Also, any aircraft movement totals available.
Just want to compare to my home airport (YYZ) where we moved almost 500,000 flights last year (490K+).

GRU had a total of 250.492 aircraft movements last year.

Source: http://www.infraero.gov.br/images/stories/Estatistica/2010/Dez.pdf


User currently offlineincitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4030 posts, RR: 13
Reply 16, posted (3 years 9 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3197 times:

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 14):
Please, enlighten us.

Actually it was 60 movements a week because my list double-counted JAL which spent an overnight. JAL at the time did not serve GIG, so it was VCP-SJU-JFK-ANC-NRT.

International movements per week 1980:
RG 8
LH 8
UC 7
SR 6
BR 6
IB 4
BN 4
AF 3
AZ 3
PL 3
SK 2
KL 2
TP 2
AT 1
JL 1

Like I said, at this time VCP was past its prime. PA used to be a big user of the airport and had already left. Most of the European airlines had that routing GIG-VCP-EZE-SCL or something similar. RG used the airport for GIG-VCP-SCL. Braniff and Ladeco also had reversed tags with GIG being the end of the line.

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 14):
For GIG, it's difficult to say, since the transition from SDU is not really well documented, but it was sometime after WWII. I wouldn't know about VCP besides the fact that it was after 1960, when the airport began to have its runway extended.

I believe that what triggered the use of GIG, at the time an air force base, was Panair receiving the Constellation in 1946. In 1943 PanAm was at SDU. In 1947 it was at GIG.

It is worth mentioning that GIG's original runway was not adequate for the 707. When Varig got it, the first route to NY had to end in BSB until the runway was upgraded.

Look here:
http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/complete/rg60/rg60-04.jpg

This is truly historic because it shows the switch into the 707 on July 04, 1960 (the blue columns), with the southbound JFK-BSB nonstop and then change of equipment.



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User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3711 posts, RR: 19
Reply 17, posted (3 years 9 months 2 days ago) and read 3085 times:

Quoting incitatus (Reply 16):
International movements per week 1980:
RG 8
LH 8
UC 7
SR 6
BR 6
IB 4
BN 4
AF 3
AZ 3
PL 3
SK 2
KL 2
TP 2
AT 1
JL 1

Well, I meant intercontinental flights when saying international. That list does not show the routings. It was only a handful of flights that flew nonstop to Europe or North America.


User currently offlineincitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4030 posts, RR: 13
Reply 18, posted (3 years 9 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3053 times:

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 17):
Well, I meant intercontinental flights when saying international. That list does not show the routings. It was only a handful of flights that flew nonstop to Europe or North America.

I think none flew nonstop to Europe. I have not heard of VCP-Europe nonstop. I don't know if it was just a question of demand, or if the 707/DC8s had take-off weight limitations due to the altitude at VCP. VCP was another link in the chain that came down from GIG to SCL. And at around 1980 it was when GIG to Europe nonstop was becoming the rule. Swissair still stopped in DKR in 1980, and prior to that many airlines stopped in Africa as well. But a few years later, if I remember right, AF and BR (British Caledonian) had added REC as a stop in a few of their frequencies.

VCP-JFK was flown nonstop in the 70s.



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User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3711 posts, RR: 19
Reply 19, posted (3 years 9 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3009 times:

Quoting incitatus (Reply 18):
I think none flew nonstop to Europe. I have not heard of VCP-Europe nonstop. I don't know if it was just a question of demand, or if the 707/DC8s had take-off weight limitations due to the altitude at VCP. VCP was another link in the chain that came down from GIG to SCL. And at around 1980 it was when GIG to Europe nonstop was becoming the rule. Swissair still stopped in DKR in 1980, and prior to that many airlines stopped in Africa as well. But a few years later, if I remember right, AF and BR (British Caledonian) had added REC as a stop in a few of their frequencies.

VCP-JFK was flown nonstop in the 70s.

Well, stops in the Northeast and in Africa were all more fuel stops than service stops. VCP's problem back than was the lack of feeder services. That's why it was served primarily as tag, since it depended only on local traffic.


User currently offlineCoronado From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1182 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (3 years 9 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2983 times:
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Quoting incitatus (Reply 16):
This is truly historic because it shows the switch into the 707 on July 04, 1960 (the blue columns), with the southbound JFK-BSB nonstop and then change of equipment.

Fantastic 1960 schedule! In 1958 we boarded the Real Constellation from Cumbica with numerous stops to Chicago Midway. At that time Cumbica was just a Brazilian airforce base, but Real was running its Constellations out of there because of runway limitations at CGH.
In 1965 got my first jet flight on the RG CV990 to Miami, do you have any RG Brazil - USA schedules for 1st week of July 1965? We were supposed to be on Caravelle from CGH to GIG but that went mechanical and I think we were put on a DC6B-I just remember being disappointed!

[Edited 2011-01-25 14:31:36]


The Original Coronado: First CV jet flights RG CV 990 July 1965; DL CV 880 July 1965; Spantax CV990 Feb 1973
User currently offlineincitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4030 posts, RR: 13
Reply 21, posted (3 years 9 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2784 times:

Quoting Coronado (Reply 20):
In 1965 got my first jet flight on the RG CV990 to Miami, do you have any RG Brazil - USA schedules for 1st week of July 1965? We were supposed to be on Caravelle from CGH to GIG but that went mechanical and I think we were put on a DC6B-I just remember being disappointed!

The same website has a 1968 schedule with 3 weekly CV990 services to MIA:

http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/complete/rg68/rg68-07.jpg

It is possible that the schedule in 1965 was similar: Monday morning GIG-BSB-MAO-CCS-MIA, Tuesday night GIG-BEL-CCS-MIA and Friday night GIG-CCS-MIA.



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User currently offlineghost77 From Mexico, joined Mar 2000, 5224 posts, RR: 51
Reply 22, posted (3 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2589 times:

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 15):
GRU had a total of 250.492 aircraft movements last year.

Congrats GRU!!!

MEX airport had 350.000 movements.

BOG had 18.5M pax last year with a growing rate of 37%. If this rate continues... MEX by 2011 will be 3rd in LATAM.

What's GRU's total capacity?

MEX total capacity I'm sure is something near to 40M.

But we in MEX with Aeromar and Connect we have so many operations with very few seats.

g77



Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
User currently offlineCoronado From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1182 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (3 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2545 times:
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Quoting incitatus (Reply 21):
The same website has a 1968 schedule with 3 weekly CV990 services to MIA:

http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/complete/rg68/rg68-07.jpg

It is possible that the schedule in 1965 was similar: Monday morning GIG-BSB-MAO-CCS-MIA, Tuesday night GIG-BEL-CCS-MIA and Friday night GIG-CCS-MIA.

Thank you, Muito obrigado, Incitatus



The Original Coronado: First CV jet flights RG CV 990 July 1965; DL CV 880 July 1965; Spantax CV990 Feb 1973
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3711 posts, RR: 19
Reply 24, posted (3 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2477 times:

Quoting ghost77 (Reply 22):
What's GRU's total capacity?

MEX total capacity I'm sure is something near to 40M.

Terminal capacity? Originally, it was 16M, but Infraero argues now that the capacity is 22M, but there has been no construction to justify that. The only change made was the reduction of commercial and lounge areas to allow the expansion of the emigration and X-ray/security areas.

[Edited 2011-01-28 00:44:51]

25 incitatus : I don't know if that added capacity, but weren't the terminal tips reconstructed and bulked up? Sometimes the place is pretty terrible. Once I was go
26 ghost77 : So C010T3, safe to say GRU has reached or it's near being in it's full capacity? g77
27 Post contains links C010T3 : They were, but that was years ago and the additional capacity was already added, summing up to 16M. No, not all, it's worst than that. GRU is way bey
28 Post contains links thenoflyzone : I don't know where you got your 2010 numbers, but they are wrong. First of all, GTAA hasn't posted Dec 2010 numbers yet, but until Nov, YYZ handled 3
29 ghost77 : Thanks for sharing. I did understood pretty well the article. So GRU's got a problem in federal and airlines staffing. Does GRU has space for a new t
30 C010T3 : Yes, GRU's T3 will start being built in a few months, but the construction will take years.
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