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OAG Changes 1/28/2011:AA/AS/F9/FL/UA/US/V2/VX  
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 6996 posts, RR: 13
Posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 8424 times:

This compares what is for sale THIS WEEK for the stated period versus what was for sale LAST WEEK...It does NOT compare to last year or now.

How to read:
Flights are daily except as noted "/wk" which means per week.
ABE-MDT 2>10/WK means a reduction from 2 daily flights to 10 flights per week which is about 1.5 flights
ABE-MDT 3>2 APR ONLY means a reduction in one roundtrip from 3 to 2 for April only
ABE-MDT 3.8>2.7 APR-JUN This is the raw format of the data which sometimes I'm too lazy to retype. It means that over a month they were averaging a little less than 4 trips per day and now it's a little less than 3 per day. So, basically they cancelled 8 flights per week or so. Airlines are doing A LOT of non-daily ops now, so these fractions are pervasive.
ABE-MDT 4>6 MAY- means an increase from 4 to 6 roundtrips starting in May and continuing
ABE-MDT 4>6 MAY-JUN, 5>6 JUL means the change is only for the stated period May to June and then a different change for July in the same route


AA
DFW-CRP 5>6 JUN-
DFW-SDF 5>4 JUN-
MIA-ATL 5>6 JUN- (DL RESPONSE)
MIA-BOG 2>3 JUN-
MIA-BOS 6>7 JUN-
MIA-MCO 7>8 JUN- (DL RESPONSE)
MIA-PLS 3>2 JUN-
MIA-TPA 5>6 JUN-
ORD-CLT 5>6 APR-
ORD-EWR 9>8 APR-
ORD-OKC 5>6 JUN-
ORD-RST 6>5 APR-
LAX-SAN 12>11 APR-
SJU-SDQ 3>4 APR- (?)

AS
ANC-HNL 3/WK>1 JUN-
ANC-ORD 2>1 JUN-
OAK-SEA 4>5 JUN-
OGG-SEA 2>1 MAY-

CO
EWR-PAP 0>1 JUN-
LAX-GDL 0>1 MAY-

F9
DEN-ASE 0>1 MAY ONLY, 0>4 JUN-
DEN-OMA 4>5 APR-
MKE-BOS 3>4 MAY-
MKE-FLL 0>1 APR-MAY
MKE-LGA 3>4 APR-

FL
ATL-PUJ 2/WK>1 MAY-JUL
ATL-TPA 9>8 MAY-JUL
AVL-TPA 0>4/WK MAY-
BWI-SFO 0>1 MAY-

HA
HNL-KOA 16>18 MAR-

UA
DEN-ASE 10>11 JUN-
DEN-BHM 1>2 JUN-
DEN-COD 1>2 JUN-
DEN-COS 11>12 JUN-
DEN-CVG 1>2 APR-JUN
DEN-DRO 7>8 JUN-
DEN-DTW 3>2 JUN-
DEN-ELP 3>4 JUN-
DEN-EUG 2>3 JUN-
DEN-FAT 3>4 APR-
DEN-FCA 2>3 JUN-
DEN-GRR 2>1 MAR-APR
DEN-GUC 1>2 JUN-
DEN-LAS 6>5 JUN-
DEN-MCI 6>7 APR-JUN
DEN-MFR 1>3 JUN-
DEN-MSO 4>5 JUN-
DEN-MTJ 4>5 JUN-
DEN-PHX 6>5 JUN-
DEN-RAP 6>7 APR-JUN
DEN-YWG 4>3 JUN-
IAD-DFW 2>3 JUN-
ORD-ATL 7>9 MAY-
ORD-DTW 6>7 APR-
ORD-GRB 5>6 JUN-
ORD-MSP 12>13 MAY-
SFO-AUS 2>3 JUN-
SFO-MSO 0>1 JUN-
SFO-SAT 1>2 JUN-

US
CLT-LAX 4>5 AUG-
CLT-MCO 9>8 JUL-
CLT-PBI 6>4 JUL-
CLT-RSW 6>4 JUL-
CLT-SAN 1>2 AUG-
CLT-SEA 2>3 AUG-
CLT-SFO 4>5 AUG-
DCA-FLL 4>3 JUL-
DCA-PBI 3>2 JUL-
DCA-PIT 6>7 APR-
PHL-DEN 2>3 AUG-
PHL-LAX 5>6 AUG-
PHL-MCO 8>7 MAY-JUN
PHL-PDX 0>1 AUG-
PHL-RSW 3>2 JUN-
PHL-SAN 2>3 AUG-
PHL-SEA 2>3 AUG-
PHL-SFO 4>5 AUG-
PHL-SMF 0>1 AUG-
PHX-PIT 2>3 MAY-
PHX-TPA 3>2 AUG-
PIT-STL 15/WK>19/WK MAY-

V2
VPS-ATL 0>4/WK MAR-
VPS-AVL 0>2/WK APR-
VPS-BHM 0>3/WK MAR-
VPS-BTR 0>3/WK MAR-
VPS-CAE 0>2/WK APR-
VPS-CHA 0>2/WK APR-
VPS-GSP 0>3/WK MAR-
VPS-HSV 0>2/WK MAR-
VPS-IAG 2/WK>0 MAY-
VPS-LIT 0>3/WK MAR-
VPS-MCN 0>2/WK MAR-
VPS-MIA 2/WK>0 MAY-
VPS-PGD 0>2/WK MAR-
VPS-PIE 0>4/WK MAR-
VPS-SAV 0>3/WK MAR-
VPS-SDF 0>4/WK MAR-
VPS-SFB 0>4/WK APR-
VPS-SHV 0>2/WK APR-
VPS-TYS 0>3/WK MAR-

VX
LAX-DFW 2>3 APR-
SFO-DFW 2>3 APR-
SFO-IAD 3>4 APR-
SFO-LAS 5>6 APR-
SFO-SAN 3>4 APR-

ZK
FEB-
BIL-GDV 0.0>1.7
BIL-HVR 0.1>0.0
BIL-LWT 0.7>1.7
BIL-SDY 1.7>0.7
DEN-GDV 0.7>0.0
DEN-ISN 0.0>1.0
DEN-RIW 3.9>2.9
DEN-SHR 3.9>2.9
GCC-DEN 2.5>1.7
GCC-GDV 1.0>0.0
GCC-ISN 0.3>1.0
GCC-MLS 0.7>1.7
GDV-BIL 0.0>1.0
GDV-GCC 1.0>0.0
GDV-ISN 0.7>0.0
GDV-SDY 0.0>1.7
HVR-BIL 0.1>0.0
HVR-LWT 0.0>1.7
HVR-RIW 1.7>0.0
ISN-DEN 1.0>2.0
ISN-SHR 1.0>0.0
LWT-BIL 0.7>1.7
LWT-HVR 0.0>1.7
LWT-RIW 1.0>0.0
MLS-GCC 0.7>1.7
MLS-SHR 1.0>0.0
RIW-DEN 3.9>2.9
RIW-HVR 1.7>0.0
RIW-LWT 1.0>0.0
SDY-BIL 1.7>1.5
SDY-GDV 0.0>1.0
SDY-SHR 1.0>0.0
SHR-DEN 3.9>2.9
SHR-ISN 1.0>0.0
SHR-MLS 1.0>0.0
SHR-SDY 1.0>0.0

65 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineck8msp From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 72 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 8377 times:

No DL changes this week?

User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 6996 posts, RR: 13
Reply 2, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 8380 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
UA
DEN-ASE 10>11 JUN-
DEN-BHM 1>2 JUN-
DEN-COD 1>2 JUN-
DEN-COS 11>12 JUN-
DEN-CVG 1>2 APR-JUN
DEN-DRO 7>8 JUN-
DEN-DTW 3>2 JUN-
DEN-ELP 3>4 JUN-
DEN-EUG 2>3 JUN-
DEN-FAT 3>4 APR-
DEN-FCA 2>3 JUN-
DEN-GRR 2>1 MAR-APR
DEN-GUC 1>2 JUN-
DEN-LAS 6>5 JUN-
DEN-MCI 6>7 APR-JUN
DEN-MFR 1>3 JUN-
DEN-MSO 4>5 JUN-
DEN-MTJ 4>5 JUN-
DEN-PHX 6>5 JUN-
DEN-RAP 6>7 APR-JUN
DEN-YWG 4>3 JUN-

Something like +12 for DEN which is surprising after last week, but all the net additions are 150 days out so we will have to see if they stick or will eventually wash out.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
V2
VPS-ATL 0>4/WK MAR- 737
VPS-AVL 0>2/WK APR- 737
VPS-BHM 0>3/WK MAR- D38
VPS-BTR 0>3/WK MAR- D38
VPS-CAE 0>2/WK APR- 737
VPS-CHA 0>2/WK APR- 737
VPS-GSP 0>3/WK MAR- 737
VPS-HSV 0>2/WK MAR- D38
VPS-IAG 2/WK>0 MAY- 737
VPS-LIT 0>3/WK MAR- 737
VPS-MCN 0>2/WK MAR- D38
VPS-MIA 2/WK>0 MAY- 737
VPS-PGD 0>2/WK MAR- D38
VPS-PIE 0>4/WK MAR- D38
VPS-SAV 0>3/WK MAR- D38
VPS-SDF 0>4/WK MAR- 737
VPS-SFB 0>4/WK APR- 737
VPS-SHV 0>2/WK APR- 737
VPS-TYS 0>3/WK MAR- 737

This is a mix of Dornier and 737 equipment. See detail above. It appears they selected the A/C type via random draw. BHM D38 and SHV 737??? Hard to get that logic. There are more to argue with than that. Is this an Allegiant model or is some entity in VPS funding this?


User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 6996 posts, RR: 13
Reply 3, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 8352 times:

Quoting ck8msp (Reply 1):
No DL changes this week?

Not 1. Weird, huh?


User currently offlinerl757pvd From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4643 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 8326 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 2):
BHM D38 and SHV 737???

BHM-VPS is so close that most people would drive, esp given the limited frequency.



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17278 posts, RR: 46
Reply 5, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 8255 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
ZK
FEB-
BIL-GDV 0.0>1.7
BIL-HVR 0.1>0.0
BIL-LWT 0.7>1.7
BIL-SDY 1.7>0.7

BIL mini-hub!  



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlinekeagkid101 From Portugal, joined Mar 2010, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 8202 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
BWI-SFO 0>1 MAY-

It's about time another BWI-SFO flight was added!


User currently offlineDFWEagle From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1071 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 8157 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
LAX-SAN 12>11 APR-
AA also re-timed many Eagle flights so that they can still provide good connections to the new LAX-PVG route (which was re-timed later than planned because of PVG slot problems) and the AA/JL LAX-NRT flights, which were also re-timed in the schedule optimisation.

The last LAX-SFO and LAX-LAS mainline flights of the day should also be re-timed in the next few weeks so that connections from PVG can be made.

LAX-IAH now has a red-eye flight on an Eagle CR7.... ouch!

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
MIA-ATL 5>6 JUN- (DL RESPONSE)
MIA-MCO 7>8 JUN- (DL RESPONSE)

Definitely a response to DL, as is the MIA-TPA increase. An increase in MIA-JAX was also reported in one of your threads a few weeks ago, so it looks like AA responded by increasing capacity in all three of DL's new intra-Florida routes from Miami, plus MIA-ATL for good measure.

[Edited 2011-01-25 13:35:38]


Ryan / HKG
User currently offlinejcavinato From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 520 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 8032 times:

BWI-SFO used to be a high-class United flight using a DC-8 that was advertised as part of its Ocean-to-Ocean service. Extra meal amenities in both first and coach. The last time I took it, it was a 5:30pm (approx) departure from BWI that had only three or four of us in first. That flight lasted until about 1980-81.

Now, that route is just a commodity like most of what has evolved in the industry.


User currently onlineas739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6077 posts, RR: 24
Reply 9, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 7876 times:

Quoting keagkid101 (Reply 6):

This flight has turned seasonal, though not announced that way. It operated last summer as well.

Schedule is starting to show the usual summer growth at SFO. I think it will be interesting to see if at some point UA puts a 737/A32X type back on AUS and SAT. These route even in the off season are very full. 3 daily SFO-AUS is impressive.



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 7732 times:

Whatever the guys at Vision Airlines are smoking, I want some of that. Sure, they are trying to copy the Allegiant model, but seriously, Allegiant has its two main operations in Las Vegas and Orlando, two of the most tourist-heavy destinations in the country. Now, Fort Walton Beach,outside of Spring Break for a couple weeks a year, what else is there? And even if their VPS operation is aimed at connections, with weekly frequencies varying so much, it doesn't really look like a business model with a future.

User currently offlineFL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1536 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 7541 times:

Quoting as739x (Reply 9):
Quoting keagkid101 (Reply 6):


This flight has turned seasonal, though not announced that way. It operated last summer as well.

  This is a new route for FL. Nothing has ever been announced as far I know.



717,72S,732/3/4/5/G/8/9,744,752/3,763/4,772/3,D9S/5,M8/90,D10,319/20/21,332/3,388,CR2/7/9,EM2,ER4,E70/75/90,SF3,AR8
User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6691 posts, RR: 32
Reply 12, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 7273 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 2):
Something like +12 for DEN which is surprising after last week, but all the net additions are 150 days out so we will have to see if they stick or will eventually wash out.
LAS seems to stay even as well, since there's a CO flight added on this route. What's interesting to me, though, is that the broad majority of (if not all) service additions from DEN for the June schedule onwards are in RJ/prop-only markets with relatively limited competition; even in the case of ASE, the scheduling decision was almost certainly made before Republic/Frontier announced it would retain the Q400's for the time being. As far as I can tell, the net effect is a decrease of one mainline round-trip and increase of thirteen Express round-trips.

And again, this seems to follow the strategy of moving the DEN traffic flows upmarket and away from WN & F9. Even though ELP and BHM are Southwest cities, WN doesn't offer non-stop service to/from DEN. PHX and DTW (both losing a flight) have WN, F9, and a network carrier with a hub at the far end. So it will be interesting to see how the strategy works out.

[Edited 2011-01-25 15:42:19]

User currently offlineFL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1536 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 7153 times:

Quoting ScottB (Reply 12):
So it will be interesting to see how the strategy works out.

Well if F9 ends up removing the E70s and Q400s from their fleet and only keeps a handful of ER4s for MKE it could work out well. 99 seats is a lot for many markets.



717,72S,732/3/4/5/G/8/9,744,752/3,763/4,772/3,D9S/5,M8/90,D10,319/20/21,332/3,388,CR2/7/9,EM2,ER4,E70/75/90,SF3,AR8
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 6996 posts, RR: 13
Reply 14, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 6877 times:

Quoting rl757pvd (Reply 4):
BHM-VPS is so close that most people would drive, esp given the limited frequency.

That's a good point, but why then fly it at all. Shreveport is pretty easy driving too and a tiny market for a 737.

Quoting DFWEagle (Reply 7):
Definitely a response to DL, as is the MIA-TPA increase. An increase in MIA-JAX was also reported in one of your threads a few weeks ago, so it looks like AA responded by increasing capacity in all three of DL's new intra-Florida routes from Miami, plus MIA-ATL for good measure.

Agreed, but a pretty tepid response.

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 10):
Whatever the guys at Vision Airlines are smoking, I want some of that. Sure, they are trying to copy the Allegiant model, but seriously, Allegiant has its two main operations in Las Vegas and Orlando, two of the most tourist-heavy destinations in the country. Now, Fort Walton Beach,outside of Spring Break for a couple weeks a year, what else is there? And even if their VPS operation is aimed at connections, with weekly frequencies varying so much, it doesn't really look like a business model with a future.

They are smoking something. Again, I wonder if VPS is paying for this somehow. Maybe a hotel association subsidy or something?

Quoting ScottB (Reply 12):
And again, this seems to follow the strategy of moving the DEN traffic flows upmarket and away from WN & F9
Quoting ScottB (Reply 12):
LAS seems to stay even as well, since there's a CO flight added on this route. What's interesting to me, though, is that the broad majority of (if not all) service additions from DEN for the June schedule onwards are in RJ/prop-only markets with relatively limited competition

Ahh, well I wonder if they will take a page from Delta and manage these changes more politically than economically. I mean this week's adds may be meant to soothe nerves at DIA/DEN, but may be followed by slow and less noticeable reductions. I did note that the equipment is basically regional. It does appear they are desperately searching for yield and running from WN.

Quoting FL787 (Reply 13):
Well if F9 ends up removing the E70s and Q400s from their fleet and only keeps a handful of ER4s for MKE it could work out well. 99 seats is a lot for many markets.

Are they getting rid of all the E170s? That will push them in the opposite direction from last year's strategy of moving into UA's high yield regional markets. Anything that can support 99 seats is probably either trashed or within 100 miles of another trashed airport.


User currently offlineFL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1536 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 6748 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 14):
Are they getting rid of all the E170s? That will push them in the opposite direction from last year's strategy of moving into UA's high yield regional markets. Anything that can support 99 seats is probably either trashed or within 100 miles of another trashed airport.

Mariner would know better than me but I know they've already dumped one and they are getting rid of at least 3 more this year. Bedford has said he would prefer 190s because the operating costs are not much higher than the 170. It's also been proven that the 170 just doesn't make any money operating for LCCs. F9 has already dropped the 170 before and I read that Virgin Blue is getting rid of their fleet. Add the fact that Mariner has said a legacy carrier is looking for more 170/175s and it's easy to see how F9's smallest plane out of DEN could soon be the E90.



717,72S,732/3/4/5/G/8/9,744,752/3,763/4,772/3,D9S/5,M8/90,D10,319/20/21,332/3,388,CR2/7/9,EM2,ER4,E70/75/90,SF3,AR8
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6572 posts, RR: 24
Reply 16, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 6738 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
BWI-SFO 0>1 MAY-

Interesting to see FL add a new route like this. I guess it does support WN, but still surprising.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
VPS-IAG 2/WK>0 MAY-

Interesting to see them chop this route. I know it was probably only meant to be seasonal, but really the high season for VPS is spring/summer.

Quoting enilria (Reply 14):
Again, I wonder if VPS is paying for this somehow. Maybe a hotel association subsidy or something?

There are no direct subsidies from VPS other than the standard waiver of landing fees/marketing costs. However, almost every small airport offers that for any new route. Vision did say they were working with some local resorts/hotels to try and offer vacation packages. They claimed in their recent press release that they sold 12,000 tickets in the first days after tickets went on sale. Of couse, those are almost all the $49 fares, so not necessarily making any money.

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 10):
Now, Fort Walton Beach,outside of Spring Break for a couple weeks a year, what else is there?

To be fair, Fort Walton/Destin is more than just Spring break. They actually see a significant number of their tourists come in the summer months (May - August).

Now, I do share your skepticism about many of these routes lasting. But then again, many said Allegiant would never last flying from places like Grand Island, Nebraska and Casper, Wyoming. While Fort Walton is not nearly the destination that MCO or LAS are, the origin cities that V2 is picking are bigger than many of the Allegiant markets....many of these V2 origin markets have metropolitan populations of 500k to 1 million.


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3702 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 6726 times:

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 10):
Sure, they are trying to copy the Allegiant model, but seriously, Allegiant has its two main operations in Las Vegas and Orlando, two of the most tourist-heavy destinations in the country.

IWA, G4's 3rd-largest base, is also tourist-heavy, as are FLL, PIE, MYR, PGD. LAX is the exception to the G4 rule, with a strong split between business and leisure traffic.

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 10):
even if their VPS operation is aimed at connections, with weekly frequencies varying so much, it doesn't really look like a business model with a future.

Branson AirExpress (3E) did the same thing with some success, and they had higher weekly frequencies than V2. 2x/week frequencies plus allowing for connections won't work. The brillance of the G4 model is in its framework: less than daily service, small cities to vacation destinations, no connections, and vacation packages. V2 has only two parts of the G4 framework (less than daily, small cities to vacation destinations).

I wish V2 well, but I don't think that their current business model will work. Then again, G4 started as a business airline out of FAT. G4 went into Chapter 11, but that didn't stop them. G4 then moved their base to LAS, got some fresh talent, and reworked their business plan to leisure travelers. And it's worked great ever since.



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3702 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 6711 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 16):
I guess it does support WN, but still surprising

WN doesn't fly to SFO (or anywhere in Northern California) from BWI nonstop.



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlinecbphoto From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1550 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 6622 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 5):
BIL mini-hub!

Desperately trying to hold onto the contract before the DOT can vote on gulfstream! Too little, too late imo!



ETOPS: Engines Turning or Passengers Swimming
User currently offlineAVLAirlineFreq From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 1009 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 6541 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 14):
Quoting rl757pvd (Reply 4):
BHM-VPS is so close that most people would drive, esp given the limited frequency.

That's a good point, but why then fly it at all. Shreveport is pretty easy driving too and a tiny market for a 737.

SHV is about a 9 hour drive from the Redneck Riviera. It's one of a few markets on V2's initial startup list that has traditionally strong ties to that area as a vacation destination in the spring and summer. Same with LIT (10+ hours to Fort Walton Beach and Destin).

Frankly, I think they would have been better off targeting more markets like LIT and SHV which are relatively distant in driving distance and which have traditional ties to that area as a beach destination, or which are not in relatively close driving distance to other beach destinations. Some of the V2 expansion markets are either a relatively easy drive to VPS (BHM, HSV, BTR, MCN, etc.) or have traditional ties to other closer beach destinations (the Carolina markets).


User currently offlineWhatUsaid From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 657 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 6451 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 17):
I wish V2 well, but I don't think that their current business model will work. Then again, G4 started as a business airline out of FAT.

G4 wasn't a business airline when it started up. A single FAT-LAS is all that flew for months. Even when TVL, RNO, PDX, and LGB were added, it was a single flight a day...always targeting the budget passenger.


User currently offlinewwtraveler99 From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 293 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 6321 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 16):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
BWI-SFO 0>1 MAY-

Interesting to see FL add a new route like this. I guess it does support WN, but still surprising.

Looking at the FL web site it appears that this flight will be a red-eye. This is something that WN does not currently do.


User currently offlineFL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1536 posts, RR: 12
Reply 23, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 6244 times:

Quoting wwtraveler99 (Reply 22):
Looking at the FL web site it appears that this flight will be a red-eye. This is something that WN does not currently do.

True. During the earnings call last week Jamie Baker asked Gary Kelly if they would consider keeping red-eyes after the merger and he did not rule it out completely. FWIW, the FL routes with red-eyes this summer are SEA/SFO/LAX-ATL/MKE/BWI, LAS-ATL/MKE, and PHX-ATL.



717,72S,732/3/4/5/G/8/9,744,752/3,763/4,772/3,D9S/5,M8/90,D10,319/20/21,332/3,388,CR2/7/9,EM2,ER4,E70/75/90,SF3,AR8
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22680 posts, RR: 20
Reply 24, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 6186 times:

Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 20):
Frankly, I think they would have been better off targeting more markets like LIT and SHV which are relatively distant in driving distance and which have traditional ties to that area as a beach destination, or which are not in relatively close driving distance to other beach destinations.

Yup. That would have probably led them to some larger markets, too (STL comes to mind - when I lived there, it shocked me how many people went to Destin).



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
25 United787 : Looks like a direct attack on DL!
26 as739x : Your correct. I was looking at the UA and answered not reading its FL. On a side note. It will be interesting what FL does here at SFO when CO moves
27 FWAERJ : If the WN/FL merger closes by then, it will almost certainly be WN.
28 Post contains links and images enilria : I'm not sure the E170 makes any money for anybody in terms of a stand-alone operation, but it definitely contributes high yield connecting revenue to
29 sw733 : Wow, there is a hell! Even in first class, that sounds...awful.
30 enilria : I wonder if that is the first CR7 red-eye? ...and the last, hopefully.
31 Post contains images flyinryan99 : I wonder if they are going through and finalizing their spring/summer schedules and will just do one massive release either next week or the followin
32 Atlwest1 : It is possible to offer Redeye flying on the pilots side with out it being a full on redeye. It is in the FA contract to do it its just that its not
33 FlyPNS1 : It's a big country and SHV is no where near the Panhandle of Florida. Louisiana has no meaningful beaches...most of their coastline is swamp. Texas h
34 ScottB : Might be, but I'm pretty sure America West/US Airways ran some CR9's eastbound at night from the LAS hub. As it is today, they have CR9 departures fr
35 apodino : It seems like US is taking some flying out of FL and shifting it to the west coast markets. Judging by the timing, this seems to be a routine seasona
36 wwtraveler99 : In my first response I was reffering to the red-eye, not just SFO. Also as far as I know there is no restriction with either the pilots or f/as worki
37 Drerx7 : At night is when WN does their routine mx as well. Do they still send birds to - where was it - Costa Rica for heavy mx?
38 ScottB : That's an at-risk Trans States route, and part of its purpose is to rotate aircraft/crews to and from their base at STL.
39 ckfred : AA's ORD-EWR change must be some kind of correction. Currently, AA is flying ORD-EWR 7 times daily (3 mainline, 4 Eagle CRJ). The 8th roundtrip is mai
40 apodino : That makes perfect sense then.
41 atrude777 : El Salvador is the location (unless that is part of Costa Rica, don't know my geography LOL) Alex
42 SANFan : It is nice to (finally) see something positive from VX for the first time in their 3 year history of service here! It ain't much (considering they us
43 Post contains images yellowtail : We got enough land disagreements down here...GUA&MEX, BZE&GUA, MGA&SJO.....please don't start another one by saying SAL is part of SJO
44 Post contains images enilria : I don't know the reasons, but typically they have a massive change after missing a week. ))) No idea what route you are talking unless its TOL-MSP. I
45 SANFan : Oh, you're right. But, as the discussions have been pointing out with VX and DFW, if VX plans on remaining in the SAN-SFO market and up against WN (w
46 Post contains images enilria : You are welcome. It looks like to me that with YYZ being longer than DFW they just had the available time to slide it in. So basically you beat out a
47 ScottB : The dilemma that, in my opinion, VX faces in short-haul routes like SFO-SAN/LAX/LAS lies in their value proposition. TV, in-seat ordering, a plush fi
48 Atlwest1 : Once again its very easy to get around that in a contract. A red-eye in nature crew wise is a turn meaning ATL-PHX-ATL for example. Now under the FL
49 enilria : Agreed Does anybody have the exact language? I had the impression that it specifically bans "scheduled" flying from 2-5am, but I don't know that for
50 SANFan : Hey Scott. Well, I can tell you that some of us in SAN haven't exactly been quiet about the lack of any VX long-hauls from Lindbergh Field. Even ONE
51 enilria : As I understand it, since right after Cush came from AA there has been an edict to ONLY add routes from LAX and SFO without any more exceptions like
52 ScottB : I don't think the additional service would be enough to build brand loyalty/recognition and ridership; a concerted marketing effort would also be nec
53 wwtraveler99 : I agree, we need the language for this debate. I have spoke with several WN pilots and F/As, from what they are telling me is red-eyes are allowed by
54 steeler83 : PHL-SMF also surprises me, especially with the additional frequency to SFO. What is the PIT-STL routeing like, 3x mon-fri and 2x sat/sun? I thought U
55 phllax : It may be. Remember that CO operated a red-eye on BOI-IAH with an ERJ-145 long range and it didn't last long.
56 enilria : I'm sure it is prorate flying that is just using the US code. Just from looking at the frequencies I'm guessing it has several mid-week cancellations
57 MSYtristar : Since BOI-IAH is around 1500 miles it'd be scheduled for around 3h30m block time or so...leaving BOI at 0130 would give you an arrival time in IAH ar
58 ScottB : The press release announcing that service doesn't have a red-eye in the schedule, although that does not mean they did not try it.
59 enilria : Yick that's awful. You don't see departures after 0100 very often.
60 beryllium : Just wanted to add a couple more... LAXRNO 2>0 MAY- (the route is being cancelled) SEAMCO 2>1 JUN-AUG (frequency reduction for summer)
61 BoeingGuy : AA has two red-eyes LAX-DFW and that is shorter. SEA-MSP is a short red-eye too and NW sometimes had two flights. When I flew it there was one 753 an
62 commavia : Wow - interesting. I'm very surprised by that - I never would have thought that AA/Eagle could have outlasted AS/QX since QX was running lower-cost Q
63 beryllium : BOI-IAH for the most part operated during normal hours. But, in summer '06 there were a few instances, when CO had 2 flights on BOI-IAH, and one of t
64 beryllium : It's certainly not a high-yielding route. With AA, AS, UA, and WN all present on the route, LAXRNO is a bloodbath. Someone had to blink first... AA i
65 WhatUsaid : Noticed that in the April MQ/AA adjustment at LAX, there's two 1-stops, FAT-SAN, and timed for business. MQ isn't known for running any direct flights
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