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Iberia 343 Are Getting Old.  
User currently offlineabibus From Mexico, joined Dec 2010, 128 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 10001 times:

Iberias fleet of 343 are getting old and even if Iberia knows very well to hae an old fleet remeber all the dc-9, dc-10, a-300 they have to buy something new and place an order soon, also because delivery dates are years away.
So would you guys think is Iberia going to order and when?

31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4264 posts, RR: 34
Reply 1, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 9967 times:

A-343s are fine, just Iberia's interior with puke coloured seats and no IFE makes them look 1970s. They can at least go on for another 15 years.
But on the other hand I expect they will fly A-350s and a few A-380s before the end of the decade.



nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
User currently offlinebthebest From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2008, 493 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 9895 times:

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...ower-arrives-as-iag-takes-off.html

Flight Global suggest that with the combined buying power of BA and Iberia, an order is pretty likely in the near future to replace older a340s and 744s - and at a good rate too.


User currently offlineabibus From Mexico, joined Dec 2010, 128 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 9819 times:

But now with BA merger what is Ib going to order? Airbus or Boeing???

User currently offlineSumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2520 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 9774 times:

I understand that IB's A343s will be fitted with a new cabin configuration, that also involves having new seats and maybe even PTVs. They will certainly have EMpower ports, including USB.

The new configuration means removing some BusinessPlus seats, whilst having more in tourist class. It looks like it will be 24J, 276Y for a total of 291 seats. (Currently 36J, 218Y =254)

Installation should commence in the next 3 months.


User currently offlineosteogenesis From Germany, joined May 2003, 647 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 9761 times:

Quoting abibus (Reply 3):
But now with BA merger what is Ib going to order? Airbus or Boeing???

They will order the best aircraft for the job. Regardless if it is a Boeing or an Airbus. I believe that for IB 787 or A350 + some A380 is the best choice.


User currently offlineseabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5084 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 9712 times:

Quoting abibus (Reply 3):
But now with BA merger what is Ib going to order? Airbus or Boeing???

They will evaluate the finances and decide accordingly.

The 787-9 is a direct, drop-in A343 replacement with light weight and (we hope) relatively low operating costs. IB will buy 789s if they just want a straight A343 replacement.

The A358 is the 789's direct competitor, but is slightly heavier with less cargo capacity. It looks much stronger against the 789 when paired with the bigger A350s. IB will buy A350s if it wants to grow capacity with A359s and/or if it wants to also replace its A346 fleet (sooner or later) with A350-1000s.



Most gorgeous aircraft: Tu-204-300, 757-200, A330-200, 777-200LR, 787-8
User currently offlineJBirdAV8r From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 4482 posts, RR: 22
Reply 7, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 9666 times:

Quoting osteogenesis (Reply 5):
They will order the best aircraft for the job. Regardless if it is a Boeing or an Airbus.

Absolutely agree.

Quoting osteogenesis (Reply 5):
I believe that for IB 787 or A350 + some A380 is the best choice.

I think a mixture of B787 and A350 would suit them very well. I'm not sure I personally see a place for the A380 in their fleet, though.



I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
User currently offlineabibus From Mexico, joined Dec 2010, 128 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 9581 times:

of course they will buy the best plane for them, but we all now that sometimes both airbus and boeing give a similar product and the final decicion sometimes includes relationships, politics and others. So before BA pretty sure IB would order Airbus and the 350 and 380 will both be perfect in Iberias fleet but now with BA perhaps a total switch like AirCanada did is possible.

User currently offlineosteogenesis From Germany, joined May 2003, 647 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 9518 times:

Quoting abibus (Reply 8):
of course they will buy the best plane for them, but we all now that sometimes both airbus and boeing give a similar product and the final decicion sometimes includes relationships, politics and others. So before BA pretty sure IB would order Airbus and the 350 and 380 will both be perfect in Iberias fleet but now with BA perhaps a total switch like AirCanada did is possible.

As far as I can see BA in the past bought from both of them so I do not believe BA will have a negative impact against Airbus products. And by the way. Saludos a mi querido México que extraño tanto.  


User currently offlinerakoon From Spain, joined Jan 2009, 41 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 9428 times:

As Summa767 said IB is going to renovate the cabin of its A343 in a short time.

About the renovation fo the fleet, there is a lot of speculations, even more from the merger with BA. BA Boeing preferent client, IB Airbus preferent client so... who knows. I think that in some routes to South America the A380 would be a good option, and hope see some of them in IB colours, but the rest of the routes its more complicate, IB use its frames with a lot of payload, so this is a point to count, and if they want operate A350, B787 or even B777 they need the ETOPS.


User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 5940 posts, RR: 30
Reply 11, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 9403 times:
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Quoting osteogenesis (Reply 5):
some A380 is the best choice.
Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 7):
I'm not sure I personally see a place for the A380 in their fleet, though.

For IB, the only routes where the A380 would work is the MAD-EZE-MAD and MAD-MEX-MAD Tha´s a sub-fleet of 4 aircraft. It´s questionable wether MEX is ready or cares to be ready for an A380 and I don´t know about EZE. SO there the number goes down from 4 to 2. Thus, I seriously doubt IB will order A380s soon.

One way or the other I don´t care. My expriences with IB have been constantly horrible in terms of service and in Europe they are nothing but a glorified LCC. Let´s hope IB changes and not BA.



MGGS
User currently offlinerealsim From Spain, joined Apr 2010, 625 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 9212 times:

Quoting AR385 (Reply 11):
For IB, the only routes where the A380 would work is the MAD-EZE-MAD and MAD-MEX-MAD Tha´s a sub-fleet of 4 aircraft. It´s questionable wether MEX is ready or cares to be ready for an A380 and I don´t know about EZE. SO there the number goes down from 4 to 2. Thus, I seriously doubt IB will order A380s soon.

  

That has recently been said by an Iberia's Director: A380s for IB only fit in two routes and it won't be ordered in a near future. "Sobre la posibilidad de contar con el A380, Iberia cree que se trata de un avión demasiado grande lo que le vincula a mercados concretos. Esta peculiaridad le encajaría a la aerolínea en dos rutas, que no citó, pero que "no ve a corto plazo"."

IB doesn't need a larger aircraft than the A346. What they need is a smaller one than the A343.


User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11572 posts, RR: 61
Reply 13, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 9091 times:

Quoting AR385 (Reply 11):
For IB, the only routes where the A380 would work is the MAD-EZE-MAD and MAD-MEX-MAD Tha´s a sub-fleet of 4 aircraft. It´s questionable wether MEX is ready or cares to be ready for an A380 and I don´t know about EZE. SO there the number goes down from 4 to 2. Thus, I seriously doubt IB will order A380s soon.

The readiness of airports in Latin America on a reasonable scale is the only problem, demand is not. By the earliest time IB could conceivably get A380s you will have traffic between MAD and EZE hitting a million passengers a year, with GRU, LIM, MEX and NYC pushing towards three quarters of a million each. It's prime A380 territory, and only a matter of time before they purchase them.


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineseabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5084 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 8605 times:

Quoting rakoon (Reply 10):
BA Boeing preferent client, IB Airbus preferent client so... who knows.

  

BA has one of the largest A32s fleets in the world and is an A380 and very likely A350 customer.

IB used to operate 747s, and 757s were important in its short-haul fleet for many years.

Both airlines did and will continue to buy from whichever manufacturer suits their needs best.

Edit: Oops, jumped the gun a bit on a BA A350 order...

[Edited 2011-01-26 15:39:25]


Most gorgeous aircraft: Tu-204-300, 757-200, A330-200, 777-200LR, 787-8
User currently offlinerobso2 From Switzerland, joined Jun 2010, 217 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 7366 times:

Quoting AR385 (Reply 11):
One way or the other I don´t care. My expriences with IB have been constantly horrible in terms of service and in Europe they are nothing but a glorified LCC. Let´s hope IB changes and not BA.

Couldn't have said it better myself. I reckon we will see an order of A350's, assuming this meets their cargo demand and suits market type, to stick with an all airbus fleet.



733/4/5/6/7/8/9, 319/20/21, 752, 744, 772, 332/3, 343/6, E70/90, AT43, AR85/1, D38, D10, M82
User currently offlineAirbusA6 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2004 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 7030 times:

There's no reason why IB couldn't order both 787 and A350, BA will be operating 787s anyway, I and presume the 2 airlines will be sharing maintenance.

As someone who'll be flying with them in a couple of weeks, I'm more worried about what's INSIDE the plane!



it's the bus to stansted (now renamed national express a4 to ruin my username)
User currently offlinedowntown273 From Spain, joined Aug 2005, 291 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 6989 times:

Quoting AR385 (Reply 11):
My expriences with IB have been constantly horrible in terms of service and in Europe they are nothing but a glorified LCC. Let´s hope IB changes and not BA.

Agree 100%.

The fact that AA/BA/IB have decided to launch MAD-LAX on IB metal (A343) concerns me. While the current A346 and A343s do the job for the Spain - LatAm market, I'm very much doubtful people will be willing to fly IB for a 13 hour flight in such a competitive market as Europe - USA. Except the LH B744's, I believe all European carriers flying to LAX have PTVs and offer a pretty good service. I think it would've made more sense for AA to put a B772 on the LAX-MAD route.

Would it be better for IB if they let AA operate their US flights on AA metal (MAD-JFK/MIA/ORD/LAX/BOS) and use the freed up planes for further expansion in South America, or start flying to the long overdue Far East? Plus, their flight times for the US services just couldn't be worse.


User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4360 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 6950 times:

With new interiors, the A343 can do it another 10 years. So I only see orders for growth, not for replacement.

The market in and to South America is changing drastically, and IB risks to run in over capacities or missing capacities depending on decisions far out of their hands, the allicance future of TAMLAT one of the major question marks. In such a situtation, one keeps the aircraft one has and if needed makes small low risk investements. A333 anybody?


User currently offlineSumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2520 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 6863 times:

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 4):
The new configuration means removing some BusinessPlus seats, whilst having more in tourist class. It looks like it will be 24J, 276Y for a total of 291 seats. (Currently 36J, 218Y =254)

I mistyped: The number of seats in tourist class in the reconfigured a/c will be 267 seats (not 276)


User currently offlinerealsim From Spain, joined Apr 2010, 625 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5204 times:

Quoting downtown273 (Reply 17):
Would it be better for IB if they let AA operate their US flights on AA metal (MAD-JFK/MIA/ORD/LAX/BOS) and use the freed up planes for further expansion in South America, or start flying to the long overdue Far East? Plus, their flight times for the US services just couldn't be worse.

Sure AA would like to, but they have no available planes, so it's impossible right now (and in the recent / medium future).

And most of you seem to forget that traffic is different depending on the markets. BA's traffic to the USA is much more premium than IB's traffic to a lot of Latam cities, so the service doesn't need to be that premium. Of course, I would like to see PTV's and excellent soft and hard products on IB's fleet, but they don't need it so much for now. However, as competition increases in Europe-Latam (AV, LA, AF, KL, LH), IB will be forced to upgrade their service, and I'm sure BA will know how to do it.


User currently offlineseabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5084 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5189 times:

Quoting realsim (Reply 20):
Sure AA would like to, but they have no available planes, so it's impossible right now (and in the recent / medium future).

This is only true for a limited period of time. AA will begin to have more flexibility, first as its 77Ws (and you can bet there will be more than two) start arriving, and then as it begins to receive its 787-9s.



Most gorgeous aircraft: Tu-204-300, 757-200, A330-200, 777-200LR, 787-8
User currently offlineparapente From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 1509 posts, RR: 10
Reply 22, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5041 times:

The beauty and indeed one of the purposes of these giant mergers is to gain better aircraft flexability. Iberia on it's own would not buy the 380 I believe.But BA have bought it plus a load of options too.With single source servicing it would be very possible to "move" a couple across to IB for their top density routes to S.A. Not saying it will happen only that, post merger ,it could.

As for "the rest" it's hard to say I feel. My personal view is that it may all hang on the BA 77w - A351 decision. If the former then I see Boeing scooping the pot with 787 8,s -9,s-and 10,s.If they go the other way then it would most likley be the 350 family. Just my $ worth.


User currently offliner2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2497 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5040 times:

Quoting abibus (Reply 3):
But now with BA merger what is Ib going to order? Airbus or Boeing???

Probably both, like is suspected to happen with all the other merged airlines. A combined 787 & A350 fleet makes a lot of sense.

Quoting bthebest (Reply 2):
Flight Global suggest that with the combined buying power of BA and Iberia, an order is pretty likely in the near future to replace older a340s and 744s - and at a good rate too.

... but at the speed at which IB & BA are known to make strategic decisions, I expect them to just go directly for the A360 and 797   

Quoting AR385 (Reply 11):

For IB, the only routes where the A380 would work is the MAD-EZE-MAD and MAD-MEX-MAD Tha´s a sub-fleet of 4 aircraft.

Today, yes. In the future, JFK and GRU could be added to that list. A subfleet of 4 a/c makes more sense if you consider a total fleet of 16 (with BA), plus very likely follow-up orders. Couldn't IB "lease" A380 flight crews from BA and provide their own cabin crews on these a/c? Maintenance would be common accross this hypothetical IB-BA A380 fleet, of course.

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 4):
I understand that IB's A343s will be fitted with a new cabin configuration, that also involves having new seats and maybe even PTVs. They will certainly have EMpower ports, including USB.

So if they are installing a new cabin it means they intend to keep the A343's around for a while. They'll have to, because if you order A350's or 787's today you'll have to get into the back of a veeery long queue...
On the other hand, IB handed over 2 A343's last year to SAA, according to airfleets.net. So their A343 strategy is not very clear. IB has 7 pre-2000 A343's in service, which would be the first candidates for a potential replacement. Will all 18 current A343's be retrofitted or will we see some more retirements? In particular, there are 4 A343's delivered between 1996-1997 that may not be worth upgrading.


User currently offlineCarls From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 522 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4920 times:

Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 7):
Quoting osteogenesis (Reply 5):
I believe that for IB 787 or A350 + some A380 is the best choice.

I think a mixture of B787 and A350 would suit them very well. I'm not sure I personally see a place for the A380 in their fleet, though.

My bet is for an A333 as a A343 replacement, the A333 can cover any of the current destination their A343 are doing at the moment just more efficently, my only doubt is Bogota.
On the higher end I would go with the A359 and A351 as A346 replacement, and I am talking about 2019/20 to start replacing the A346. Maybe a fleet of 6 or 8 A380 for high density routes such Buenos Aires, Mexico, Miami.


25 robso2 : Does anyone know exactly when this will take place and what kind of new cabin configuration will be installed?? Or have a source for that matter...
26 SCL767 : It will be interesting to see how IB deals with with LAN's new B787s that will eventually be deployed to MAD and other European destinations during t
27 Bogota : If AV 332 barely make it to Europe from BOG, I would highly doubt that an A333 would make it. On the other hand most if not all of the 12 weekly flig
28 DCAJet : Why would a LAN 787 threaten IB? They are on the same alliance and 95% of passengers could not tell apart a 340 from a 787 once inside. When and if I
29 YULWinterSkies : May the fact that they never operated twins on long-haul operations hurt them in terms of being granted ETOPS? On the other hand, none of their route
30 abibus : I flew Iberia many times to Mexico City with 343, 346 in Business and economy also on europe routes, and i really like Iberia, the business class is m
31 BA174 : Exactly with the AF/KL merger even though AF were the majority partner it appears that they have lowered their product to the standards of KL- in my
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