jetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 3035 posts, RR: 36 Posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 9507 times:
Its beginning to look more and more like Jet will end up in SkyTeam. Nothing firm yet, but the government has now made it clear that it does not want both Jet and Air India in Star Alliance.
Quote: The aviation ministry does not want two major airlines in the same alliance, which would leave SkyTeam as Jet’s only option.
“OneWorld is already with (Kingfisher) so its has to be between Star and SkyTeam,” Jet Airways chairman Naresh Goyal said last week on the sidelines of a conference marking 100 years of flight in India. “But we are not in a hurry. Emirates has not joined any alliance, has it?”
Jet connects to 24 international cities, second only to Air India’s network, and has been stitching code-share agreements with international carriers to increase its reach.
While Goyal says Star is an option, the aviation ministry is opposed to that move, at least for now. “We can’t allow two carriers into an alliance. They will eat into each other’s market and cannibalize it,” said a ministry official who declined to be named.
Quote: “Jet is clearly joining SkyTeam since FCO (the Rome airport code) and AMS (Amsterdam) are Alitalia and KLM hubs. Jet can (fly to) Britain (excluding London) via AMS and other cities in southern Europe via FCO or MXP (Milan airport),” said a London-based analyst who tracks the airline closely, but declined to be named as he is not authorized to speak to the media. Jet already flies direct to London using Boeing 777s.
“They will also start flying to CDG (Paris airport and a large SkyTeam hub). I expect Jet will pull out of BRU (Brussels) soon and use MXP as their scissor hub,” he said.
bizmark03 From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 42 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 9023 times:
I would have liked 9W to join Star, but I agree there is no room for both AI and 9W in Star Alliance, but its frustrating to see AI getting nowhere in getting itself together so that they can formally be a part of Star. But with recent events i guess 9W is only negotiating the final terms before they make a formal announcement about joining skyteam.(i hope i'm wrong an they end up joining star alliance)
LAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5085 posts, RR: 48 Reply 10, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 8899 times:
Quoting blueflyer (Reply 2): Here's hoping Star will come to their senses and boot Air India.
I don't think that is likely to happen. I expect AI to start DEL-ORD/IAD/SFO/LAX over the next few years on 777s after it receives some 787s. These could replace some 777s on routes where the range or capacity of 777s is not needed. AI with its fleet and DEL hub is a better match for STAR than 9W for US-India traffic.
Jet is likely to pursue one-stop strategy for US-India traffic via MXP on its metal, and with SkyTeam alliance codeshares from AMS, CDG, and LHR if Virgin were to join SkyTeam.
You mean kind of like how Alaska Airlines cut all their ties with oneworld in order to join Skyteam because of their existing partnership with DL, AF, KL and KE....
On a serious note, what does Skyteam bring to Jet Airways that they can not get by having multiple partnerships with airlines across the board? I get what Skyteam gets out of Jet Airways joining, but what real benefits does Jet get in return for their monogamy?
alitalia610 From Italy, joined Aug 2005, 31 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 8223 times:
Jet Airways has already a code share in place with AZ on their new Delhi-MXP service.
As a matter of fact joining Sky Team and chosing MXP as their european hub for transatlantic services(or other european destinations) instead of BRU is a project that can only be set for success on my opinion,for some reasons:
1)The big advantage of having at MXP numerous AZ and AP connection flighs,both national and international,that can feed Jet Airways transatlantic services.
As we know beside of the usual flights to other Sky team hubs there's nothing like this at BRU.
2)MXP market is currently underserved by AZ(that correctly chose to concentrate on one hub only,FCO,considering its relatively small long haul fleet) and MXP is a strong business but also leisure destination,with a good increase rate per year.
If Jet Airways decides to create a long haul flights hub at MXP will be maybe the final solution to AZ long haul weakness(fortunately they are trying to fix this) and the risk of seeing MXP becoming a new LH hub will be averted.
It will be,after more than 10 years, a riedition of the former AZ-KLM alliance that was going to see MXP as a new KL long haul hub,but for a lot of reasons,both political and some problems about the airport,made it collapse.
I think you missed the opening statement, the press release from the Indian minister, whereas he says that they don't want two different Indian airlines in the same alliance. Since Air India has been trying to get into Star for the longest time now, and Kingfisher is in Oneworld, if Jet were to join an alliance, the only choice left for the time being is Sky.
Pnwtraveler From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 2148 posts, RR: 12 Reply 16, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 8109 times:
AC just signed a code share with Jet so either way has an ability to connect in YYZ or in BRU via YUL. I have been wondering about the profitablity of the service but this will only help. The only hope for Jet to join Star is if the dragged out AI situation is indicative of something insurmountable.
jetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 3035 posts, RR: 36 Reply 17, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 8023 times:
Quoting SR 103 (Reply 11): On a serious note, what does Skyteam bring to Jet Airways that they can not get by having multiple partnerships with airlines across the board? I get what Skyteam gets out of Jet Airways joining, but what real benefits does Jet get in return for their monogamy?
Well, as Kingfisher joins OW and Air India joins Star, those "multiple partnerships" will start drying up.
blueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3478 posts, RR: 1 Reply 20, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 7550 times:
Quoting alitalia610 (Reply 12): The big advantage of having at MXP numerous AZ and AP connection flighs,both national and international,that can feed Jet Airways transatlantic services.
Are you saying that Jet should join Sky and move to MXP because MXP has more connections on Skyteam carriers than BRU does? That's indubitably true, but it is equally true that BRU has more Star connections than MXP does, and there are more Star connections out BRU than Sky connections out of MXP. I see one *useful* Sky connection at MXP that BRU doesn't replicate with Star, that's MIA (NRT and ICN are irrelevant because no one in their right mind will fly from either destination to MXP to connect with Jet). On the other hand, I see plenty of Star connections at BRU not available through Skyteam at MXP (MAN, BCN, YUL, FRA, etc...).
If Jet joins Sky, moving to MXP makes sense, but it doesn't make sense to join Sky because of MXP...
In the end, I think/fear politics will have more to do with the final decision than which potential scissor hub has more to offer to Jet.
Quoting alitalia610 (Reply 12): If Jet Airways decides to create a long haul flights hub at MXP will be maybe the final solution to AZ long haul weakness
Unless they change their strategy, that wouldn't be the case. Jet has not put a lot of efforts into developing BRU as an O/D market. Their first priority is through flights using BRU as scissor hub, followed by India to elsewhere-in-Europe and finally BRU O/D. If they do move to MXP, don't expect much more than 4 or 5 check-in positions, for instance, which really isn't much for a carrier bringing in 6 A330s within a couple of hours.
Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 5): I would love to see that , but given the Indian Governments attitude I fear we are likely to see Jet having to settle for their Plan B ... Skyteam .
Quoting jfk777 (Reply 6): Jet should be in Star. Is Air India's deal for Star a done Deal ? AI isn't yet in Star do that could change.
I'm getting sick of this attitude a.netters have about Star Alliance. Aside from rabid fanboyism, is there an specific reason why so many people think that every non-aligned airline must join Star, and that if they choose Skyteam or Oneworld that there must be something wrong with them?
3 major Indian airlines for 3 major global alliances - seems to make sense to me.
Goblin211 From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1209 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 7416 times:
It needs to be in skyteam because i think they're lacking major airlines that star is gobbling up. OW is in the same boat but this is sky's opportunity. the only benefit i see w/ star is that UA flies to EWR and would make a good connection service.
delimit From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1480 posts, RR: 2 Reply 23, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 7385 times:
Quoting jsquared (Reply 21): I'm getting sick of this attitude a.netters have about Star Alliance.
People have favorite airlines. I would bet that 99.9% of those people who have a favorite airline also favor the alliance their fave is a member of. Star has a billion members (my one-eyed niece Sophie and her Tonka Turbo Hand Commander are applying) so you're going to have an inordinate number of people here who favor Star.
LAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5085 posts, RR: 48 Reply 24, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 7345 times:
Quoting ojas (Reply 19): Out of that ORD has started, SFO will start with some B787 variant only. IAD, LAX do not stand any chance.
LAX area probably has a larger Indian population than ORD area currently. I think the 2010 census will bear that out. I don't see how you come to the conclusion that LAX-DEL has no chance. SFO-DEL is more likely to come first on a 777 and it doesn't have to be on a 788 as it will not have the legs. There is no 789 on order.
Quoting jsquared (Reply 21): 3 major Indian airlines for 3 major global alliances - seems to make sense to me.
25 danfearn77: Totally agree. Literally just stepped off one of their 738's DEL-DXB and beside getting a complimentary upgrade, the aircraft interior was fabulous a
26 ojas: It does not, various agencies have done number crunching for 9W and AI and have concluded the same. If there is no B789 then there is no DEL - SFO. p
27 blueflyer: I'm getting sick of this attitude some a.netters have about views they don't share that they automatically assume are not based on rational factors!
28 delimit: I'm sure you'll love Air India. To be fair, when the first post says that an official in the Indian government says 1 airline per alliance, and that
29 LAXDESI: Do you have access to these reports? It defies logic that SFO and LAX have less O&D India potential than ORD given the larger Indian population b
30 ojas: How do you define O-D potential? Just tallying the total number of Indians and Indian Americans in California is not the appropriate path to describe
31 kiwiandrew: No , but there are 9 specific reasons why 9W should prefer Star over Sky - namely their existing frequent flyer relationships with NH BD SN LH OS LX
32 LAXDESI: That does have an impact along with the business connections which SFO has more than ORD. Have you looked at DOT data? Do you have any numbers on O&a
33 jetlanta: Do those trump the one big reason 9W shouldn't join Star? 1. The government is indicating they won't be allowed to. Frankly, codeshare agreements are
34 LAXDESI: Trade between India and korea has been growing, and Jet and Korean Air could both benefit if Jet were to join SkyTeam. I hope to see MAA-ICN in a few
35 ojas: For the debate about 9W's alliance, 9W's choices are: 1) To join SkyTeam 2) To remain without an alliance
36 jsquared: I never assumed the opinions in question weren't based on "rational" factors. The thing I don't understand is this aura of superiority that Star Alli
37 alitalia610: I was saying that IF Jet Airways joins Sky Team THEN it will be very logical to move all its transatlantic services from BRU to MXP. Maybe 6 A330 fli
38 LIPZ: Sorry, where are all those numerous AZ-AP connecting flights at MXP? There is not that much left, most flights depart from LIN instead. For example,
39 huaiwei: So does it make sense to you that two of China's big three airlines are in Skyteam?
40 delimit: I thought CZ and MU had signed a cooperation agreement? If so, then yes.
41 Atlwest1: Yes because 1. its a bigger market place 2. The carriers in each of the three alliances have far more scope then the indian counterparts 3. There are
42 peanuts: Option 2 is not an option. They'll get obliterated. Even "AS" style flying won't work in the long run. India is a different market with different mar
43 huaiwei: I do believe the main issue was about market share, which was also the same reason the Indian government would prefer their airlines distributed amon
44 LAXdude1023: First off, to clear the air, here is the latest data for Indian population by combined statiscial area (the top 10): New York: 555,788 San Francisco/
45 Atlwest1: LOL yes I do. Hopefully thats not a problem The Chinese carriers, have more size and scope then there Indian counterparts do. Meaning that even thoug
46 delimit: I had thought it was more extensive than that. The details would be telling. Given that CZ sponsored MU into SkyTeam, there's obviously something goi
47 LAXDESI: Thanks for sharing. What year is this data for and can you provide a link. Thanks.
48 LAXdude1023: Here you go: http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet...ADPGeoSearchByListServlet?_lang=en
49 alitalia610: Sorry, where are all those numerous AZ-AP connecting flights at MXP? There is not that much left, most flights depart from LIN instead. For example,
50 LAXDESI: The link doesn't work. In any event, my point was that if ORD-DEL-India is viable, then SFO-DEL-India should be equally viable due to the larger Indi
51 FLYYUL: I don't understand MXP as a scissor hub. Alitalia/Air One network out of MXP is fairly limited, especially compared to neighbor FCO.
52 peanuts: I think the whole Jet Airways scissor hub concept will be history fairly soon anyways. Once they are part of a major alliance and the integration goe
53 jr: Why MXP? Assuming they do join Skyteam, which may never happen, why would they pick MXP instead of AMS for example? Doesn't AF codeshare with AY on r
54 cslusarc: Although I think that MXP has decent O&D demand, it is in a awful location for scissors hub between the North America and India. That location in
55 OOSGB: In this debate about 9W joining *A or SkyTeam everybody seems to be taking for granted that 9W should leave BRU if it were to join SkyTeam, still to m
56 Nimish: Well - everyone seems to assume that 9W is all set to jump into an alliance, however the owner is often too proud/ stupid about accepting the terms of
57 VC10er: Which of the 2 is the "better" airlines in terms of product, service and route system? Do AI still have 747's and are they updated?