Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Profitability Of Hawaii Flights From US Mainland  
User currently offlineQANTAS747-438 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1923 posts, RR: 2
Posted (3 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 11990 times:

With all the talk of WN possibly staring up Hawaii ops in the near future, many people are saying that flying to Hawaii is a "bloodbath" and that nearly all major US airlines fly there. From an airline standpoint, what does it take to make a US-Hawaii route profitable? Are they profitable? What airline is doing the best financially on this route? Can a profit be made with all of the competition on the route? For what reason would an airline WANT to fly to Hawaii?


My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
77 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinebj87 From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 448 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 11938 times:

I can't help but think Hawaii is a bit of a prestige route. With all the airlines flying there I doubt it is very profitable. Then again people are willing to pay more to fly to sunny Hawaii than to smoggy Chicago so maybe the prices are higher than they need to be. (don't know really I have never flown there or looked around for tickets.

Maybe the marked is big enough for one more airline, maybe not, we will find out soon enough though.


User currently offlineHNLPointShoot From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 319 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 11926 times:

Quoting bj87 (Reply 1):
I can't help but think Hawaii is a bit of a prestige route. With all the airlines flying there I doubt it is very profitable.

HA seems to be doing well enough.  


User currently offlineHAL From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2558 posts, RR: 53
Reply 3, posted (3 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 11524 times:

Quoting bj87 (Reply 1):
With all the airlines flying there I doubt it is very profitable.

Two of the most profitable airlines in the US are HA (Hawaii based) and AS (rapid expansion into Hawaii over the past two years). If Hawaii flying wasn't profitable, it wouldn't be done.

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Thread starter):
From an airline standpoint, what does it take to make a US-Hawaii route profitable?

The same thing as any other airline - costs are less than revenue. Yes, going to Hawaii is expensive for the airlines compared to domestic flying because of the additional cost involved with ETOPS operations. But obviously the whole 'Hawaii is a money losing market' is hogwash. It's a huge tourist destination for people from all over the US and Canada. Literally millions of people a year pay a lot of money to take that vacation to Hawaii, and that means demand is high enough to support a majority of all US airlines operating into the state. Which really answers the question...

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Thread starter):
Can a profit be made with all of the competition on the route?

Yes, it can.

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Thread starter):
For what reason would an airline WANT to fly to Hawaii?

As I said above, millions of people each year want to go to Hawaii. The airlines can make a profit with all that demand, so they do it. End of story.

HAL



One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
User currently offlineKaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 2950 posts, RR: 28
Reply 4, posted (3 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 11484 times:

Quoting HAL (Reply 4):
It's a huge tourist destination for people from all over the US and Canada

Western Canada (B.C. and Alberta). The rest of Canada holidays in Mexico/Caribbean/Florida/Arizona. And it's so low yield that AC flies an all-Y 763.



Note à moi-même - il faut respecter les cons.
User currently offlineTWFirst From Vatican City, joined Apr 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 52
Reply 5, posted (3 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 11405 times:

Quoting bj87 (Reply 1):
smoggy Chicago

'Smoggy' Chicago?? Cold Chicago, yes. Smoggy Chicago, no.



An unexamined life isn't worth living.
User currently offlinehatbutton From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1500 posts, RR: 14
Reply 6, posted (3 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 11355 times:

Quoting HAL (Reply 4):
Two of the most profitable airlines in the US are HA (Hawaii based) and AS (rapid expansion into Hawaii over the past two years). If Hawaii flying wasn't profitable, it wouldn't be done.

  

Quoting bj87 (Reply 1):
I can't help but think Hawaii is a bit of a prestige route. With all the airlines flying there I doubt it is very profitable.

Since Hawaii is such a leisure destination, there is great opportunity to sell hotel and car packages compared to most routes in the lower 48. I also think because the flight from the mainland is as long as a transcon flight, people are more willing to pay for First Class because of the comfort it affords on a 5-6 hour ride. Getting people to pony up for First on SEA-SFO is much harder, and there isn't as big of a price gap between F and Y. I just think the ancillary opportunities are why Hawaii-mainland is desirable in addition to the popularity of visiting the islands period.


User currently onlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5351 posts, RR: 15
Reply 7, posted (3 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 11258 times:

A factor might also be that an airline that flys to Hawaii automatically offers a nice destination for frequent flyers to use mileage for. Not a major factor, but it's something that looks appealing in a mileage plan brochure!

bb


User currently offlineCO 757-300 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2001, 324 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 11176 times:

CO's EWR - HNL service is almost always full. although i am sure there are many on board paying for the trip with FF miles or AMEX points ect.. anyone know any better data?

User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8021 posts, RR: 26
Reply 9, posted (3 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 11047 times:

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 5):
Western Canada (B.C. and Alberta).

Nonsense, I've met Canadian tourists here from Halifax, Toronto, Quebec City, Edmonton, you name it. They literally come from all over.



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineridgid727 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1108 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 10953 times:

Contrary to what a lot of what is said out there, Hawaii service by carriers is "not for prestige routes", is not for frequent flyer programs, and is not for anything but profitability on balance sheets.

If it was for all presitage carriers wouldn't be tweeking it seasonally as they do. While Hawaii is a leisure destination, it is also a business destination.

The economic output of the state of Hawaii in 2009 was 66.5 billion dollars rating it at 38th in the nation, which is larger than the entire economic output of countries like Costa Rica, Bolivia, Jordan, Qatar and many others.

So,there are many business travelers frequenting the airlanes between the mainland and Hawaii at higher than discounted leisure fares, in addition to all the tourist traffic as well.

[Edited 2011-01-27 11:36:58]

User currently offlinemultimark From Canada, joined Jul 2006, 796 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (3 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 10938 times:

Quoting HAL (Reply 4):
Two of the most profitable airlines in the US are HA (Hawaii based) and AS (rapid expansion into Hawaii over the past two years). If Hawaii flying wasn't profitable, it wouldn't be done.

Haven't you said in the past that nobody makes money flying a 737 from the mainland to Hawai'i? If so, is AS just doing it for a/c utlization?

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 5):
Western Canada (B.C. and Alberta). The rest of Canada holidays in Mexico/Caribbean/Florida/Arizona. And it's so low yield that AC flies an all-Y 763.

Untrue, AC's 767's to HI have domestic business class. Lie-flats would be waste on this route.


User currently offlineKaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 2950 posts, RR: 28
Reply 12, posted (3 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 10853 times:

Quoting multimark (Reply 12):
Untrue, AC's 767's to HI have domestic business class.

This is what they use: http://www.aircanada.com/en/about/fleet/b767-300erxm.html?src=o
There are 3 aircraft in this configuration used only on low yield vacation routes. All other 763 routes (including domestic) are flown by the 27 aircraft with lie-flat J. That should tell you something about yields.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 10):
Nonsense, I've met Canadian tourists here from Halifax, Toronto, Quebec City, Edmonton, you name it. They literally come from all over.

Of course there are going to be some, but try looking here http://cansim2.statcan.gc.ca/cgi-win...ASUM&ARRAY_SUMM=1&ARRAYID=4010040. YYZ-HNL was a money loser for CP, even as a scissor hub, and AC abandoned it soon after acquiring CP.



Note à moi-même - il faut respecter les cons.
User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8021 posts, RR: 26
Reply 13, posted (3 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 10853 times:

Quoting ridgid727 (Reply 11):
So,there are many business travelers frequenting the airlanes between the mainland and Hawaii at higher than discounted leisure fares, in addition to all the tourist traffic as well.

True enough. My employer regularly flies various experts from places like SEA, SFO, and LAX out to the Big Island and elsewhere to perform investigations local expertise can't handle. The same is true of many other local businesses as well.



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineHAL From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2558 posts, RR: 53
Reply 14, posted (3 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 10840 times:

Quoting multimark (Reply 12):
Haven't you said in the past that nobody makes money flying a 737 from the mainland to Hawai'i? If so, is AS just doing it for a/c utlization?

In a perfect world with fares high enough, the 737 can (and does) make money for those flying it. If the economy takes a dive or competition drives fares downward they'll be in trouble as the cost per seat to Hawaii on the 737 will always be higher than on a larger plane like the 757, 767, or A330.

My biggest problem with the 737 to Hawaii has always been the technical end of it since it's not as efficient to fly a plane at the limit of its performance envelope day-in an day-out like the 737 does to the islands. I had a long talk with an AS Captain at the airport last month about their operations, and he and I agree on many points. He feels safe in the plane, and I agree. He also said that most of the flights are at max weight, max power, and that it's causing engines to be replaced at a faster rate than they wished. Occasionally out of SEA or PDX (and more often out of ANC) they have to reduce the loads or make a fuel stop in OAK in order to make it. It's not a simple matter of being unsafe, but it's just less economical than using planes designed for long-haul flying. And with that much wear-and-tear on the planes the margin of safety has been decreased. Again, he's talking about relative terms between aircraft. It's still safe, just slightly less safe than if using planes that aren't pushed to the limits every time they take off.

HAL



One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
User currently offlineKaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 2950 posts, RR: 28
Reply 15, posted (3 years 5 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 10686 times:

Quoting HAL (Reply 15):
He also said that most of the flights are at max weight, max power, and that it's causing engines to be replaced at a faster rate than they wished.

Which is the issue QF is (was?) apparently having out of LAX with the A380 and the 744.



Note à moi-même - il faut respecter les cons.
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19381 posts, RR: 58
Reply 16, posted (3 years 5 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 10283 times:

Quoting HAL (Reply 4):

Two of the most profitable airlines in the US are HA (Hawaii based) and AS (rapid expansion into Hawaii over the past two years). If Hawaii flying wasn't profitable, it wouldn't be done.

There are a few reasons:
1) There's plenty of demand and, believe me, even advance tickets on Travelocity/Orbitz/et al aren't that cheap. Just came back from LIH myself.

2) Customer loyalty. "Join our FF program and spend all your money on airline. In addition to all your favorite destinations, we also fly to Hawaii!"

3) Contrary to popular belief, not all Hawaii traffic is strictly leisure. Many professional organizations choose the various hotels in Honolulu for conferences. Although that doesn't contribute a bunch of F-class traffic, there is a fair amount of traffic on expense accounts. So while it is a huge leisure market, the business component is not to be ignored.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24803 posts, RR: 22
Reply 17, posted (3 years 5 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 10226 times:

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Thread starter):
For what reason would an airline WANT to fly to Hawaii?
Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 10):
Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 5):
Western Canada (B.C. and Alberta).

Nonsense, I've met Canadian tourists here from Halifax, Toronto, Quebec City, Edmonton, you name it. They literally come from all over.

Edmonton is in Alberta. In any case, I would guess that 90% of Canadian visitors to Hawaii are from western Canada. If there was a larger market to Hawaii there would be at least a few flights from the rest of Canada to Hawaii, as there is to Mexico and the Caribbean. Even a huge market like YYZ can't support direct service to Hawaii and it's been tried several times, always with unprofitable results. CP first operated twice-weekly YYZ-HNL nonstop service with DC-8s in 1966.


User currently offlineYULWinterSkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2176 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (3 years 5 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 10185 times:

Quoting CO 757-300 (Reply 9):
CO's EWR - HNL service is almost always full. although i am sure there are many on board paying for the trip with FF miles or AMEX points ect.. anyone know any better data?

Being the only airline flying between HNL and the US's largest city, metro area & business market certainly helps them make good money.
What equipment is used on this route btw? 777? 764?
Also, CO is generally strong on the Pacific with, for instance, a HNL-GUM flight, if I recall well, on a 764.



When I doubt... go running!
User currently offlineGoblin211 From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1209 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (3 years 5 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 9739 times:

Quoting HAL (Reply 4):

couldn't have put it better. except maybe airlines need to do it in addition to wanting to since there's such a high demand. I mean if you think about it the cliche for honeymooning is going to Hawaii so if airlines didn't fly there like they do they wouldn't be posting nearly as much profits each quarter. IMHO.



From the airport with love
User currently offlineKaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 2950 posts, RR: 28
Reply 20, posted (3 years 5 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 9654 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 18):
In any case, I would guess that 90% of Canadian visitors to Hawaii are from western Canada. If there was a larger market to Hawaii there would be at least a few flights from the rest of Canada to Hawaii,

   Good guess. According to StatsCan, 88%    Biggest destinations (according to StatsCan) for eastern Canada leisure trips are Cuba, Mexico, U.S. sunbelt (mainly Florida/Arizona). And there's zilch F/J traffic to HNL. When I used to fly it with CP en route to AKL, there were never more than 3 others in F - which is why AC uses the leisure-configured 763s in the fleet to operate YVR-HNL.



Note à moi-même - il faut respecter les cons.
User currently offline777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3552 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (3 years 5 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 9583 times:

Quoting HAL (Reply 4):
But obviously the whole 'Hawaii is a money losing market' is hogwash. It's a huge tourist destination for people from all over the US and Canada.

I disagree. That may be the case for HA, but it's certainly not the case for the mainland based airlines. Hawaii is a loss leader and it always has been. HA does what it does well, but it's also very much a niche airline, designed and built to operate in the Hawaiian economic climate. To compare it to the traditional legacies is slightly disingenious.

One airline I'm intimately familiar with only keeps its HA routes to satify its frequent flyer base. I have it on good authority from the people that would know that this same airline also isn't making any money on its Hawaiian routes. In fact, this airline tried to get rid of its Hawaiian routes a couple decades ago but stopped short once they witnessed the strong backlash from its most valuable customers.

Personally, I think this insinuation that Hawaiian routes print money is also hogwash.



PHX based
User currently offlineATA L1011 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1378 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (3 years 5 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 9513 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 18):
Edmonton is in Alberta. In any case, I would guess that 90% of Canadian visitors to Hawaii are from western Canada.

This is true for the US as well, most travelers from here that go to Hawaii are from the West Coast (Cali, Arizona etc). Alot of Midwest/East coasters tend do go to Florida, in paticuliar S.FL (Miami/Ft.Lauderdale area) for fun in the sun etc.



Treat others as you expect to be treated!
User currently offlineckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5169 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (3 years 5 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 9435 times:

Quoting bj87 (Reply 1):
smoggy Chicago

Los Angeles is smoggy. Even Atlanta is smoggy, since the hills and mountains to the northwest and north tend to keep the smog from clearing out.

Chicago just has constantly changing weather. If you don't like it, just wait 10 minutes. It will change.


User currently offlinehnl-jack From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 817 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (3 years 5 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 9257 times:

Quoting 777STL (Reply 22):
I disagree. That may be the case for HA, but it's certainly not the case for the mainland based airlines.

Perhaps you could provide some facts to base that statement on. It would be a revelation to most airlines on the route.

I just flew AS 859 from SEA to HNL last Saturday evening in First Class. Of the sixteen seats in F/C only one was an upgrade...the rest full fare. Coach was also full and while I don't have numbers the flight attendant said very few were on award tickets. It's true that it takes good yield management to make money on Hawaii flights, just as it takes on most leisure routes. Before I retired, it wasn't unusual for Hawaii yields to be better than some of eastern U.S. / Europe flights we operated. What lowers the yield in most leisure markets is the percentage of seats the airline pre-sells to tour wholesalers, which the major carriers serving Hawaii have lowered considerably. That market has been almost turned over to low fare operators such as ONA.

The increased competition we see in the mainland/Hawaii market today is due to increased demand not fare competition. If demand drops I would not expect the carriers to lower yields by dropping fares to protect market share. They'll simply cut back to meet demand levels. Market share isn't the driving force it once was. It's all about making money, even in Hawaii.



Grew up in the business and continued the family tradition.
25 777fan : Chicago, smoggy? Try HNL in the summer time with the Kona winds driving volcanic fumes your way. Better yet, try Los Angeles on 364 of 365 days a yea
26 PacificClipper : Another point to note is that the strong fare competition is on mainland US to HNL which sees the most service across a number of carriers. Fares from
27 slcdeltarumd11 : I think the reason people say this is all the people who redeem miles on the route. Hawaii is a place alot of people save their miles for years and ye
28 777fan : Assuming G4 runs LAS-HNL, its target demographic likely will be the local Hawaiian population seeking leisure flights to LAS, not necessarily the mai
29 tarantulalv : I would be very surprised if G4 runs LAS-HNL with 2 daily HA 332's in addition to a 763 two or three times weekly from OGG. Omni also operates this re
30 gigneil : American executives have said on numerous occasions that Hawaii is one of their profit centers. NS
31 koruman : There are a number of reasons why airlines fly to Hawaii. Firstly, the demographics of people vacationing there involve significantly higher disposabl
32 gigneil : All of those things and one more - it ain't real cheap, ever, to fly to Hawaii. They maintain a good fare premium. NS
33 intsim : Keep in mind airlines like Delta and United have connecting traffic that is currently paying $600-$800 round trip to HNL. Getting to KOA being more ex
34 Post contains links FATFlyer : Most of the hints out of Allegiant indicate they will not run to Hawaii from markets with current competition or from larger cities. Why battle it out
35 Post contains images qantasguy : Yes, we go there on business a few times each year and it is usually oversold, and full. They make good money from us It's a real pleasant flight out
36 slcdeltarumd11 : I think HA will be fine against Allegiant and Southwest. Its the legacies that will be in trouble on competing routes. The legacies are lucky right n
37 BMI727 : I just skimmed the thread so this may already have been touched on, but it should be noted that during the past decade two of the bigger players in th
38 HAL : For all these reasons and more, the 'Hawaii is low-yield' crowd needs to examine some actual facts. Yes, it's a vacation destination. But that does n
39 jgw787 : Well UA has a few 777 and 767 on the SFO-HNL and they are always full. But there are probably a lot of people using miles cause the fares are the same
40 lucky777 : Care to provide the people here with just one....? That statement is certainly news to me.
41 frmrCapCadet : If Frequent Flyer miles are appropriately awarded and priced it should not make any difference is EVERY person on a flight to Hawaii was a FF.
42 ASFlyer : The Flight Attendant would have no idea who is and who isn't on a frequent flyer ticket, nor would hey have any idea how many passengers were on freq
43 koruman : The number of award seats on Hawaii flights is grossly inflated on this forum. All credible airlines have complex yield management models which exist
44 PA515 : I thought the F/A's had a printout of the pax manifest with all sorts of individual pax information including fare type. The code for Frequent Flyer
45 LH506 : I am not sure about fare type, but at least on LH they certainly know who is LH Gold and LH HON, so that you generally get a personal chat with the p
46 bobnwa : I also would like to have that statement verified.
47 hatbutton : Originally, when AS started Hawaii service it was noted a few times by folks I talked to who were in the know that a lot of the first few months of s
48 bobnwa : The remarks in question were supposedly made by AA execs
49 ALoha73g : This is something people often don't consider with frequent flyer mileage redemption. The billions of frequent flyer miles issued & sold by airli
50 AeroWesty : That AA will maintain SFO-HNL as one of their very few non-hub-to-spoke routes left in the system should say volumes.
51 777fan : On that note, it should be interesting to see how WN handles the Hawaii flights; might we see a BOB option for what is likely to be one of, if not th
52 hnl-jack : Thank you...I believe you are correct.
53 ASFlyer : Speaking as a Flight Attendant, in particular one for AS, I can assure you that this is not the case for AS. We get "final paperwork". The only infor
54 gigneil : They certainly do not on United. They can see if a flyer is NRSA, 1P, 2P, 1K, or GS. They can most definitely not see fare code or award tickets. If
55 Kaiarahi : So this can't be true?
56 PA515 : Okay, so not a full pax manifest but enough for the F/A to know how many F class pax are on award tkts. But 'hnl-jack' was referring to award tkts in
57 ASFlyer : Nope, not quite. The prelim is often printed quite a bit before the FA's even show up and is rarely completely accurate. Additionally, the only ones
58 slcdeltarumd11 : Why not?
59 Kaiarahi : See post 57.
60 QANTAS747-438 : This thread has veered off topic, but it looks like there's actually some money to be made on the Hawaii flights. I think WN will actually do a good j
61 Post contains images UnitedTristar : I would say two things: First, if you cannot sell cargo to some of the most isolated islands on the planet, then you have no clue what your doing...
62 Post contains images HALFA : I've been flying for 26 years now and we are ALWAYS given a final passenger count from the agents before closing the boarding door. The pilots need t
63 N801NW : I have no idea if this relates to profitability or not but CO is going to "Meals for Sale" i.e. BOB on IAH-HNL and EWR-HNL as of March 1st. There is a
64 hnl-jack : It turned out that the flight attendant and I started at AS in the same year (a long...long time ago). During the course of the conversation reliving
65 Post contains images HAL : OMG. An 11 hour flight, and they don't give you anything to eat unless you buy it? Hey HALFA, here's an opportunity for us to take over the market to
66 Post contains images HALFA : That's unbelievable. They'll serve you two meals on a 6+ hour flight from EWR-LHR but they'll make you pay for food on an 10+ hour flight to HNL. Sou
67 koruman : Why are you surprised? Hawaiian is the last full-service carrier in the USA. Or, put differently, it is the only airline left in the country which ac
68 777fan : No doubt, which was my point back in reply 28 or so. I'm sure WN will do just fine but if there's a potential shortcoming as it pertains to their Isl
69 koruman : Hopefully American carriers will start to imitate the innovative Air New Zealand model for medium and short-haul travel, where there are four a la ca
70 hatbutton : Because if HA isn't the cheapest option, then people won't go for it. Especially when traveling to Hawaii where the hotels aren't that cheap either.
71 Viscount724 : American (and Canadian) passengers are never going to pay $30 more for a $5 (or less) and usually inedible meal. Air travel has become a commodity in
72 777fan : In some aspects, it seems headed that way although with the traditional hub and spoke system, requisite connections onto regional carriers (disparate
73 mrskyguy : Hawaiians (some, not all) have often referred to Las Vegas as the "next island." For the locals, at least, Vegas is a top stop for outbounds. So woul
74 777fan : I'm well aware of that (I lived in Honolulu for several years) but HNL-LAS service is well served by two HA dailies, an assortment of vacation charte
75 BMI727 : My opinion is that with the exception for the biggest destinations, HA will need a partner on the mainland to make many destinations east of the Rock
76 hnl-jack : I agree with you. However, many said that HA would not be able to compete effectively with legacy carriers from the west coast when it began service
77 Bluewave 707 : We refer to Las Vegas as the "9th island". The only way for HA to drop prices at LAS, is to have really good competition like G4, since X9 pretty muc
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Flights From US To Cuba, Iran Etc posted Fri Aug 26 2005 12:38:18 by Timmytour
Likelihood Of LCC Flights From RFD To Europe posted Tue May 11 2004 20:00:31 by Ushermittwoch
Feasibility Of European Flights From PVD? posted Sun Jan 25 2004 05:16:59 by John
Are There Widebody Flights From US To St Maarten? posted Sun Jun 23 2002 22:35:06 by Bobcat
Non-smoking Flights From US To Europe posted Fri Nov 17 2000 04:57:18 by KALB
Flights From US To HEL posted Fri Nov 3 2000 00:45:10 by Ahlfors
lack of direct flights from glasgow posted Sat Feb 13 1999 22:52:05 by airhead
Capacity Of JAL Flights To/from Hawaii? posted Thu May 24 2007 15:58:22 by Congaboy
Performance Of US's New N/s Flights From DCA posted Fri Mar 18 2005 21:20:55 by Meteorologist
Effects Of US Policy On Flights From Muslim States posted Thu Feb 26 2004 14:50:57 by KEno