New Airliners Going To Defunct Airlines? — Civil Aviation Forum

Sponsor Message:


My Starred Topics \| Profile \| New Topic \| Forum Index \| Help \| Search

New Airliners Going To Defunct Airlines?

c5load From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 917 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 5323 times:

Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I read on a separate thread that TW was the launch customer for the A318. When they merged with AA, the order went to Frontier. It made me wonder though, what other now defunct (through tanking or merger) airlines were launch or big order customers for new airliners, causing the order to go to someone else? Was EA on the edge of getting something brand new? What about Pan Am?

"But this airplane has 4 engines, it's an entirely different kind of flying! Altogether"

23 replies: All unread, jump to last

srbmod From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 16888 posts, RR: 51
Reply 1, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 5277 times:

The TW A318 order didn't go to F9. F9 placed their A318 order in 1999 while TWA was still in business and their A318 order was still on the books. When AA canceled the TW A318 order, Frontier became one of the launch customers as a result.

Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21460 posts, RR: 24
Reply 2, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 5269 times:

Skybus, one of the more short-lived US carriers (less than 11 months in 2007-08) had ordered 65 A319s but had only taken delivery of about 13 when they suspended service.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jason Whitebird

srbmod From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 16888 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 5219 times:

In 1988, Braniff ordered 50 A320s with an option for 50 more. A few did end up in Braniff colors before the airline went belly up in December 1989.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © AirNikon Collection-Pima Air and Space Museum

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Sunbird Photos by Don Boyd

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Frank C. Duarte Jr.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © AirNikon Collection-Pima Air and Space Museum

PPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8492 posts, RR: 43
Reply 4, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 5180 times:

Crossair was the launch customer for the E-jets.

"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat

LV From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 1808 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4950 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 2):
Skybus, one of the more short-lived US carriers (less than 11 months in 2007-08) had ordered 65 A319s but had only taken delivery of about 13 when they suspended service.

What ever happened to the Skybus birds? I was thinking at some point there was a deal for VX to get them but maybe I'm confusing that with something else.

srbmod From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 16888 posts, RR: 51
Reply 6, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4877 times:

Quoting LV (Reply 5):

What ever happened to the Skybus birds? I was thinking at some point there was a deal for VX to get them but maybe I'm confusing that with something else.

When Skybus was just starting off, Virgin America leased out two A320s they had already taken delivery of to them while VX was awaiting gov't approval to start operations.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Royal S King

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jason Whitebird

BMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 14315 posts, RR: 26
Reply 7, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4792 times:

Quoting c5load (Thread starter):
It made me wonder though, what other now defunct (through tanking or merger) airlines were launch or big order customers for new airliners, causing the order to go to someone else?

Remember that quite a few such planes were probably leased, so it becomes the lessor's problem.

Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?

FlyCaledonian From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 1965 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4359 times:

Weren't the Braniff planes originally ordered by Pan Am, or did Pan Am plan on taking them on after Braniff folded? I know those birds eventually ended up with America West.

British Caledonian was to be a launch customer for the A320 and MD-11. At least one A320-111 made test flights in BCal colours, but was delivered in BA Landor colours because BA had bought BR out. The MD-11s weren't taken up by BA, and the first couple of aircraft that should have gone to BCal I believe ended up with AA.

Let's Go British Caledonian!

srbmod From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 16888 posts, RR: 51
Reply 9, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4306 times:

Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 8):
Weren't the Braniff planes originally ordered by Pan Am, or did Pan Am plan on taking them on after Braniff folded? I know those birds eventually ended up with America West.

Pan Am's financial troubles in the late 80s (that eventually put them out of business in the early 90s) lead to the order being transferred to Braniff mk.2, who also placed an order for some Fokker F100s to replace the BAC 1-11s that they inherited when they picked up Florida Express, but ended up taking the A320s because of the backlog for F100s. PA had ordered the A320s to replace their 727s and 732s in their fleet. Those A320s would have looked nice in the PA livery.

http://www.aviation-designs.net/?id=1893

jlbmedia From United States of America, joined Jun 2002, 603 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4276 times:

How about Valuejet ordering the MD-95 later turned 717, then re-emerginng....as Airtran. Does that count?

JLB54061

srbmod From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 16888 posts, RR: 51
Reply 11, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4251 times:

Quoting jlbmedia (Reply 10):
How about Valuejet ordering the MD-95 later turned 717, then re-emerginng....as Airtran. Does that count?

The Valujet MD-95 order is in a bit of a gray area, as while the airline changed names, Valujet was the acquiring carrier. In addition, the renaming of the MD-95 to the 717 happened prior Valujet announcing their merger with AirTran.

STT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16250 posts, RR: 52
Reply 12, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4193 times:

The Texas Air Corp had a large order of 737-300s that they intended to split between CO and EA, Eastern were going to get the 733s to replace their DC-9s. The 733s never were delivered to Eastern, they were put into trusteeship and later went under. Those 733s were later delivered straight to CO.

Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757

Northwest727 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 491 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4171 times:

I think DH (Independence Air) had a large order for A319's when its debts caught up to it and it failed in 2006

AirFrance744 From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 76 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3923 times:

Well NW was the launch customer of the Americas for the 787, of course, now they will be going to DL.

Flown over 115,000 miles and I'm only 18!

srbmod From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 16888 posts, RR: 51
Reply 15, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3792 times:

Quoting AirFrance744 (Reply 14):
Well NW was the launch customer of the Americas for the 787, of course, now they will be going to DL.

Not exactly. The first US carrier to "order" 787s was Primaris Airlines, who later canceled the "order" and eventually shuttered their charter ops without ever going into scheduled operations.

Quoting Northwest727 (Reply 13):
I think DH (Independence Air) had a large order for A319's when its debts caught up to it and it failed in 2006

The only order info I can find was for 10 A319s and 5 A320s in addition to leasing 10 A319s. At the time they ceased operations, they had 12 A319s in their fleet.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/06/bu...coast-agree-to-a-split.html?src=pm

BMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 14315 posts, RR: 26
Reply 16, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3627 times:

Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 8):
The MD-11s weren't taken up by BA, and the first couple of aircraft that should have gone to BCal I believe ended up with AA.

Kind of. BA cancelled the MD-11 order and Air Europe went out of business as well in the early 90s the Rolls Royce powered variant ordered by B Cal was delayed and then cancelled.

Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?

Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21460 posts, RR: 24
Reply 17, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2443 times:

Quoting LV (Reply 5):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 2):
Skybus, one of the more short-lived US carriers (less than 11 months in 2007-08) had ordered 65 A319s but had only taken delivery of about 13 when they suspended service.

What ever happened to the Skybus birds? I was thinking at some point there was a deal for VX to get them but maybe I'm confusing that with something else.

I believe VX has 2 ex-Skybus A319s. At least one is with AC. It was an original AC aircraft and was returned to the lessor and then went to Skybus. Now it's back with AC. A few other Skybus A319s were original AC aircraft and went back to AC after Skybus shut down but I believe only the one below is currently operating with AC. Ironically, it's now part of the AC Jetz charter fleet that carries sports teams etc., with a 58-seat all business class configuration -- quite a difference from the high-density Skybus seating.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

srbmod From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 16888 posts, RR: 51
Reply 18, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2135 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 17):
I believe VX has 2 ex-Skybus A319s. At least one is with AC. It was an original AC aircraft and was returned to the lessor and then went to Skybus. Now it's back with AC. A few other Skybus A319s were original AC aircraft and went back to AC after Skybus shut down but I believe only the one below is currently operating with AC. Ironically, it's now part of the AC Jetz charter fleet that carries sports teams etc., with a 58-seat all business class configuration -- quite a difference from the high-density Skybus seating.

Here's the story about the two VX A320s that Skybus operated:

Quoting srbmod (Reply 6):
When Skybus was just starting off, Virgin America leased out two A320s they had already taken delivery of to them while VX was awaiting gov't approval to start operations.

Here's the one with AC Jetz:

http://www.airfleets.net/ficheapp/plane-a319-1853.htm

The other one that went back to AC is now listed with Aerodynamics:

http://www.airfleets.net/ficheapp/plane-a319-1963.htm

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

bmibaby737 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1635 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2072 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 17):
I believe VX has 2 ex-Skybus A319s. At least one is with AC. It was an original AC aircraft and was returned to the lessor and then went to Skybus.

Believe they were subleased, and were not returned to their lessors.

airman99o From Canada, joined Aug 1999, 969 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1494 times:

Skybus had leased two 319's from Skyservice when they first started to fly. I remember them coming back to the fleet after the shutdown. painted with the bright tails.

Safety is Everyones Responsibility.

FX1816 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1400 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1367 times:

Quoting srbmod (Reply 18):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 17):
I believe VX has 2 ex-Skybus A319s. At least one is with AC. It was an original AC aircraft and was returned to the lessor and then went to Skybus. Now it's back with AC. A few other Skybus A319s were original AC aircraft and went back to AC after Skybus shut down but I believe only the one below is currently operating with AC. Ironically, it's now part of the AC Jetz charter fleet that carries sports teams etc., with a 58-seat all business class configuration -- quite a difference from the high-density Skybus seating.

Here's the story about the two VX A320s that Skybus operated:

Not to be too nit picky but they were VRD A319s not A320s.

FX1816

Northwest727 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 491 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1081 times:

Quoting srbmod (Reply 15):
The only order info I can find was for 10 A319s and 5 A320s in addition to leasing 10 A319s. At the time they ceased operations, they had 12 A319s in their fleet.

I thought it was near 50 frames that they had intended to order, before some of their fleet got repossessed and the airline folded. My memory is foggy about the exact numbers; I do remember seeing the Airliners Magazine article about them after they shut their doors. I don't have the magazine in front of me unfortunately...it is 600 miles away.

FlyCaledonian From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 1965 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1003 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 16):
Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 8):
The MD-11s weren't taken up by BA, and the first couple of aircraft that should have gone to BCal I believe ended up with AA.

Kind of. BA cancelled the MD-11 order and Air Europe went out of business as well in the early 90s the Rolls Royce powered variant ordered by B Cal was delayed and then cancelled.

BCal ordered the MD-11 with GE engines, hence why I believe when BA cancelled the order the first few were picked up by AA. As far as I'm aware Air Europe was the only carrier to order the MD-11 with RR Trents. That would have been some quite impressive bird.

Let's Go British Caledonian!

Top Of Page

Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics: