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Gotta LUV It! Southwest/AirTran Merger  
User currently offlineSurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2862 posts, RR: 30
Posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 18743 times:

We have the ever-popular dedicated merger threads to F9/YX and UA/CO, so why not start one for what could likely be the biggest LCC tie-up in the history of global aviation?

As it stands today (February 1st, 2011) the U.S. regulatory authorities are investigating the merger proposal between these two carriers. Given that the gov't gave UA and CO the green light, I can't see them turning this one down. Neither carrier really has any vast quantity of scarce slots or foreign route authorities, so I imagine those typical U.S. mega-(airline) merger issues won't arise. The only sticking point I can think of would be AirTran's special DCA slots that are tied specifically to small/mid-size markets. Like the old YX slots F9 intended to get, they can't be transferred to the acquiring airline. Otherwise, what else of any competitive value would WN/FLhave to give up? Gate space at MDW, to prevent further consolidation at the landlocked facility?

Now, we already know that this is not a merger of equals (a la UA and CO), but rather a WN takeover of FL. That means that FL's F cabin, assigned seating, and - correct me if I'm wrong - XM radio will all go away. The 717s, however, will stay, and WN has said it will keep (or grow) the major ATL hub and international flying.

So now let's take a look at some of the winners, losers, and questions about the merger.

Winners:

ATL - supposedly will become the biggest station in the entire system. They will almost certainly get links to established WN stations like SDF, LIT, OKC, TUL, JAN, BDL, and maybe even PDX. Could also see quite a bit of new int'l service!

BWI - both of the airlines have made this airport what it is today, and I can see this being the main gateway between the Northeast (BOS, PVD, BDL, LGA, EWR, etc.) and the burgeoning Caribbean network. Any new int'l service is good news for this airport!

MDW - should WN keep some of the smaller FL stations going, I would bet most of them will get a link to this key hub. I also expect MDW to get quite a bit of int'l service - GCM, PUJ, CUN, MBJ, AUA, and SJU (not int'l but you get the idea) that TZ served not long ago.

I think WN could also try to expand from the larger FL markets that it inherits, like ROC, MEM, and CLT - linking them to MDW, for example.

I also think that MCO, TPA, and/or FLL stand to gain quite a bit of int'l service when it's all said and done. If I had to guess I'd say MCO, but FLL has a better O&D market and has seen more WN growth in recent times..

Losers:

DFW - loses a very important eastbound LCC service. All those ATL connections to places like BOS, LGA, DCA, etc. kept AA somewhat honest. But now...

IND - once a fairly sizable connection point in the WN network, it is now vastly overshadowed by the likes of MDW and STL. FL tried to build it up, but WN won't.

AVL, CRW, MLI, ABE, UTM, other small AirTran markets - worked for FL, but just can't support WN service. They will probably be dropped just like the smaller Morris Air stations were. DSM, ICT, DAY, etc. might be able to survive.

Questions:

MKE - FL has invested a lot in it, and WN doesn't necessarily want to throw it all down the drain. They need to reallocate the LGA and DCA slots used for MKE routes, though, which will severely diminish the attractiveness of the hub overall. They have hinted it might grow, but how?

CAK/CLE
PHF/ORF
FNT/DTW

Your thoughts??


Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
78 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline737tdi From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 810 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 18593 times:
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I have to say this.....This is not a merger. Southwest is buying AirTran. Don't mean to nit pick but there is a huge difference. Mainly the outpouring of cash to AirTran's stockholders. When the sale is complete the AirTran name will disappear except for maybe an aircraft to memorialize the airline, just like Morris Air, there is still one aircraft with her name on it.

User currently offlineusflyer msp From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2122 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 18567 times:

I think BNA is going to be a huge loser with this merger. WN has already been cutting service and with ATL being so close I suspect much of its connecting traffic will be shifted to flow over ATL instead.

User currently offlinekeagkid101 From Portugal, joined Mar 2010, 306 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 18445 times:

I think we can also see MHT/PVD-ATL and give some competition to DL. With MKE being so close to MDW, I don't see it growing anymore after the acquisition is complete.

User currently online1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6470 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 18334 times:

I wonder though if ABQ will be a gainer or loser. After all, ABQ is a mini-focus city for WN, however, I have heard that the reason for WN's many ABQ flights is due to Wright Amendment restrictions at DAL. However, with the Wright Amendment soon expiring, WN could bypass ABQ from DAL. Still, there are many loyal WN customers at ABQ who refuse to fly any other airline.


The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2747 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 18179 times:

In terms of numbers of non-stops that are current or will soon be from WN/FL cities, (and just assuming that all things stay equal) it looks like Orlando will have the most, followed by Baltimore.

Below is my best effort for a top 10 list of most non-stops. FL overlaps with WN were omitted. Feel free to offer any corrections.


1) Orlando total: 64 yearly + 2 seasonal

WN - 36
Albany, Albuquerque, Austin, Baltimore, Birmingham (AL), Buffalo, Chicago-Midway, Cleveland, Columbus (OH), Detroit, Denver, Ft Lauderdale, Ft Myers, Greenville/Spartanburg, Hartford, Houston-Hobby, Indianapolis, Jackson, Kansas City, Las Vegas, Long Island/Islip, Louisville, Manchester (NH), Milwaukee, Nashville, New Orleans, Norfolk/Virginia Beach, Omaha, Panama City (FL), Philadelphia, Phoenix, Pittsburgh, Providence, Raleigh/Durham, St. Louis, San Antonio

FL - 28 + 2 seasonal
Akron/Canton, Allentown, Aruba, Asheville, Atlanta, Bloomington/Normal, Branson (MO), Charleston (WV), Charlotte, Dayton, Des Moines, Flint, Grand Rapids, Harrisburg, Huntsville, Key West, Knoxville, Lexington, Moline/Quad Cities, Montego Bay, New York-LaGuardia, Newport News/Williamsburg, Portland (ME), Richmond, Rochester (NY), San Juan, Washington-National, White Plains
Seasonal: Boston, Minneapolis/St. Wichita


2) Baltimore total: 58 yearly + 3 seasonal

WN - 46 + 1 seasonal
Albany (NY), Albuquerque, Austin, Birmingham (AL), Boston, Buffalo, Charleston (SC), Chicago-Midway, Cleveland, Columbus (OH), Denver, Detroit, Fort Lauderdale, Fort Myers, Greenville/Spartanburg, Hartford, Houston-Hobby, Indianapolis, Jackson, Jacksonville, Kansas City, Las Vegas, Little Rock, Long Island/Islip, Los Angeles, Louisville, Manchester (NH), Milwaukee, Nashville, New Orleans, New York–LaGuardia, Newark, Norfolk, Oklahoma City, Orlando, Panama City (FL), Phoenix, Pittsburgh, Providence, Raleigh/Durham, St. Louis, Salt Lake City, San Antonio, San Diego, Tampa, West Palm Beach
Seasonal: Seattle/Tacoma

FL - 12 + 2 Seasonal
Atlanta, Cancún, Charlotte, Dayton, Grand Rapids, Huntsville, Montego Bay, Nassau, Portland (ME), Rochester (NY), San Juan, Sarasota,
Seasonal: Bermuda, San Francisco


3) Chicago Midway total: 57 yearly

WN - 55
Albany, Albuquerque, Austin, Baltimore, Birmingham (AL), Boston, Buffalo, Charleston (SC), Cleveland, Columbus (OH), Denver, Detroit, Fort Lauderdale, Fort Myers, Greenville/Spartanburg, Hartford/Springfield, Houston-Hobby, Indianapolis, Jackson, Kansas City, Las Vegas, Little Rock, Long Island/Islip, Los Angeles, Louisville, Manchester (NH), Minneapolis/St. Paul, Nashville, New Orleans, New York-LaGuardia, Newark, Norfolk, Oakland, Omaha, Ontario, Orlando, Philadelphia, Phoenix, Pittsburgh, Portland (OR), Providence, Raleigh/Durham, Reno/Tahoe, Sacramento, St. Louis, Salt Lake City, San Antonio, San Diego, San Francisco, San Jose (CA), Santa Ana/Orange County, Seattle/Tacoma, Tampa, Tucson, Washington-Dulles

FL - 2
Atlanta, Sarasota/Bradenton


4) Las Vegas total: 55 yearly + 1seasonal

WN - 54 + 1 seasonal
Albany, Albuquerque, Amarillo, Austin, Baltimore, Birmingham (AL), Boise, Buffalo, Burbank, Chicago-Midway, Cleveland, Columbus (OH), Denver, El Paso, Fort Lauderdale, Hartford, Houston-Hobby, Indianapolis, Jacksonville (FL), Kansas City, Little Rock, Los Angeles, Louisville, Lubbock, Manchester (NH), Midland/Odessa, Milwaukee, Nashville, New Orleans, Oakland, Oklahoma City, Omaha, Ontario, Orange County, Orlando, Philadelphia, Phoenix, Pittsburgh, Portland (OR), Providence, Raleigh/Durham, Reno/Tahoe, Sacramento, St. Louis, Salt Lake City, San Antonio, San Diego, San Francisco, San Jose (CA), Seattle/Tacoma, Spokane, Tampa, Tucson, Tulsa
Seasonal: Norfolk/Virginia Beach

FL - 1
Atlanta


5) Atlanta total: 54 yearly

FL
Akron/Canton, Aruba, Atlantic City, Baltimore, Bloomington/Normal, Boston, Branson, Buffalo, Cancún, Charlotte, Chicago-Midway, Columbus (OH), Dayton, Denver, Detroit, Flint, Fort Lauderdale, Fort Myers, Gulfport/Biloxi, Houston-Hobby, Indianapolis, Jacksonville (FL), Kansas City, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Memphis, Milwaukee, Minneapolis/St. Paul, Montego Bay, Nassau, New Orleans, New York-LaGuardia, Newport News, Orlando, Pensacola, Philadelphia, Phoenix, Pittsburgh, Punta Cana, Raleigh/Durham, Richmond, Rochester (NY), St. Louis, San Antonio, San Francisco, San Juan, Sarasota/Bradenton, Seattle/Tacoma, Tampa, Tunica, Washington-Dulles, Washington-National, West Palm Beach, White Plains, Wichita


6) Phoenix total: 51 yearly

WN - 50
Albuquerque, Austin, Baltimore, Birmingham (AL), Boise, Boston, Buffalo, Burbank, Chicago-Midway, Columbus (OH), Denver, Detroit, El Paso, Fort Lauderdale, Houston-Hobby, Indianapolis, Kansas City, Las Vegas, Little Rock, Los Angeles, Louisville, Manchester (NH), Milwaukee, Minneapolis/St. Paul, Nashville, New Orleans, Newark, Oakland, Oklahoma City, Omaha, Ontario, Orange County, Orlando, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Portland (OR), Providence, Raleigh/Durham, Reno/Tahoe, Sacramento, St. Louis, Salt Lake City, San Antonio, San Diego, San Francisco, San Jose (CA), Seattle/Tacoma, Spokane Tampa, Tulsa

FL - 1
Atlanta



7) Denver total: 49 yearly

WN - 47
Albuquerque, Amarillo, Austin, Baltimore, Boise, Boston, Chicago-Midway, Columbus (OH), Detroit, El Paso, Fort Lauderdale, Hartford, Houston-Hobby, Indianapolis, Jacksonville, Kansas City, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Minneapolis/St. Paul, Nashville, New Orleans, Newark, Oakland, Oklahoma City, Omaha, Ontario, Orange County, Orlando, Philadelphia, Phoenix, Pittsburgh, Portland (OR), Raleigh/Durham, Reno/Tahoe, Sacramento, St. Louis, Salt Lake City, San Antonio, San Diego, San Francisco, San Jose (CA), Seattle/Tacoma, Spokane, Tampa, Tucson, Tulsa, Washington-Dulles

FL - 2
Atlanta, Milwaukee


8) Tampa total: 39 yearly + 3 seasonal

WN - 29
Albany, Austin, Baltimore, Birmingham (AL), Buffalo, Chicago-Midway, Columbus (OH), Denver, Fort Lauderdale, Hartford, Houston-Hobby, Indianapolis, Jacksonville, Kansas City, Las Vegas, Long Island/Islip, Louisville, Manchester (NH), Nashville, New Orleans, Norfolk, Philadelphia, Phoenix, Pittsburgh, Providence, Raleigh/Durham, St. Louis, San Antonio, West Palm Beach

FL - 10 + 3 seasonal
Akron/Canton, Atlanta, Baltimore, Dayton, Grand Rapids, Key West [begins March 10], Milwaukee, Rochester (NY), San Juan
Seasonal: Asheville, Flint, Pittsburgh


9) Houston Hobby total: 34 yearly

WN - 33
Albuquerque, Austin, Baltimore, Birmingham (AL), Charleston (SC), Chicago-Midway, Corpus Christi, Dallas-Love, Denver, El Paso, Fort Lauderdale, Greenville/Spartanburg, Harlingen, Jackson (MS), Jacksonville, Las Vegas, Little Rock, Los Angeles, Midland/Odessa, Nashville, New Orleans, Newark ,Oakland, Oklahoma City, Orlando, Panama City (FL), Philadelphia, Phoenix, San Antonio, San Diego, St. Louis, Tampa, Tulsa

FL - 1
Atlanta


10a) Fort Lauderdale total: 31yearly

WN - 22
Albany, Austin, Baltimore, Buffalo, Chicago-Midway, Denver, Hartford, Houston-Hobby, Jacksonville, Kansas City , Las Vegas, Long Island/Islip, Manchester (NH), Nashville, New Orleans, Orlando, Philadelphia, Phoenix [7], Providence, Raleigh/Durham, St. Louis, Tampa

FL - 9
Allentown/Bethlehem, Atlanta, Baltimore, Columbus (OH), Harrisburg, Indianapolis, Lexington (KY), Milwaukee, Pittsburgh


10b) Nashville total: 29 + 3 seasonal

WN - 29 + 3 seasonal
Austin, Baltimore, Birmingham (AL), Charleston (SC), Chicago-Midway, Cleveland, Columbus (OH), Denver, Detroit, Ft Lauderdale, Ft Myers, Greenville-Spartanburg, Hartford/Springfield, Houston-Hobby, Jacksonville, Kansas City, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, New Orleans, Norfolk, Orlando, Panama City (FL), Philadelphia, Phoenix, Raleigh/Durham, San Antonio, San Diego, St. Louis, Tampa
Seasonal: Oakland, Seattle/Tacoma, Providence


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22847 posts, RR: 20
Reply 6, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 18106 times:

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 2):
WN has already been cutting service

To where? I live in Nashville, and WN has added some flights and cut others, but we haven't seen wholesale cuts with no corresponding adds in some time.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlinecatiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 3029 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 18064 times:

Quoting SurfandSnow (Thread starter):
Given that the gov't gave UA and CO the green light, I can't see them turning this one down.

And yet the regulators have come back twice now under Hart-Scott-Rodino to ask for more information. It's taking a very long time. If they were my clients that would be a cause for concern.


User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11517 posts, RR: 61
Reply 8, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 18045 times:

Quoting SurfandSnow (Thread starter):
DFW - loses a very important eastbound LCC service. All those ATL connections to places like BOS, LGA, DCA, etc. kept AA somewhat honest. But now...

Come 2014, Southwest unrestricted over at Love is going to provide plenty of pricing discipline for AA and other DFW carriers.


User currently offlineelbandgeek From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 753 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 18011 times:

If MCO sees significant interntional expansion would they move FL back to Airside 2 and consolidate there. That would require doing what B6 did previously did, dealing with connections between airsides or would they be able to work out a swap with DL who only needs FIS for their seasonal CUN route. They currently have 20 gates between the two of them, however the 70 and 90 wings together only have 16 total. Cutting some of the overlap they could probably make it work but I'm not sure. It's possible the DL gates could be reconfigured for more jetways since they wouldn't need widebody spacing but that would still complicate the whole process.

User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22847 posts, RR: 20
Reply 10, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 18011 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 8):
Come 2014, Southwest unrestricted over at Love is going to provide plenty of pricing discipline
for AA and other DFW carriers.

  

While I haven't taken a comprehensive look, there seems to be some pricing discipline on account of WN already. The cheapest available fare for DFW-LAX tomorrow on AA is $408, and on WN it's $414.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineairstatdfw From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 374 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 17895 times:

I am wondering what will WN do with DFW-ATL, that will be a lot market share to give back to DL and AA. I think FL has 6 or 7 flights a day between the two cities. Last year DFW-ATL was in the top 10 destinations out of DFW. Could WN have Skywest do some RJ flying between DAL-ATL to try and keep some of the passengers with WN/FL. I could see them doing like a shuttle service until they can fly there with B737 in 2014.

User currently offlineelbandgeek From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 753 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 17844 times:

Quoting airstatdfw (Reply 11):

I am wondering what will WN do with DFW-ATL, that will be a lot market share to give back to DL and AA. I think FL has 6 or 7 flights a day between the two cities. Last year DFW-ATL was in the top 10 destinations out of DFW. Could WN have Skywest do some RJ flying between DAL-ATL to try and keep some of the passengers with WN/FL. I could see them doing like a shuttle service until they can fly there with B737 in 2014.

I doubt RJs are in the cards. I'm sure they'll just have multiple daily one-stops through BHM, HOU, and MSY


User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11517 posts, RR: 61
Reply 13, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 17711 times:

Quoting airstatdfw (Reply 11):
I am wondering what will WN do with DFW-ATL, that will be a lot market share to give back to DL and AA.

True, but it's only temporary. Come 2014, they'll no doubt add multiple daily DAL-ATL flights.

Quoting airstatdfw (Reply 11):
Could WN have Skywest do some RJ flying between DAL-ATL to try and keep some of the passengers with WN/FL.

Doubtful. RJs would not be competitive up against near-hourly mainline schedules on AA, and near that on DL.

Quoting airstatdfw (Reply 11):
I could see them doing like a shuttle service until they can fly there with B737 in 2014.

Better to just skip the sub-par and non-competitive offering and just wait for three years.


User currently offlinecatdaddy63 From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 300 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 17653 times:
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Quoting elbandgeek (Reply 12):
I am wondering what will WN do with DFW-ATL, that will be a lot market share to give back to DL and AA. I think FL has 6 or 7 flights a day between the two cities. Last year DFW-ATL was in the top 10 destinations out of DFW. Could WN have Skywest do some RJ flying between DAL-ATL to try and keep some of the passengers with WN/FL. I could see them doing like a shuttle service until they can fly there with B737 in 2014.

Until WN can fly nonstop to ATL in 2014, TUL, OKC, LIT, MCI and possibly STL and will be the intermediate stops. Just as they are now for north and east destinations. WN has many loyal flyers in those cities that will jump at the chance to not fly a DL Connection CR7 or CR9. And save some $$ at the same time. The current North Texas customers will mostly continue to fly DL or AA nonstop to ATL.


User currently offlineATLFlyer323 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 614 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 17624 times:

I wonder what Southwest will do with AirTran's CAK operations. I'm hoping they will not shift flights up to CLE, but is having 2 stations so close to each other profitable? I think it would be as CAK is more convenient for people in the Akron/Canton area than driving up to CLE. AirTran has made what CAK is today, and I hope Southwest keeps service. Just my   .

-Brandon



Everyday, the fluffy temptation of wheat!
User currently offlineBDABOY From Bermuda, joined Nov 2004, 110 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 17501 times:

I'm quietly excited here in Bermuda thinking of the possibility in the future of connecting to the WN network directly. Never flown with FL but I've always had good experiences with WN. Unfortunately, flying with them has been a rare occurrence as there has previously been no way to connect to them directly out of BDA. Can someone remind me of where FL had announced there were flying to BDA from? I think it was 2 cities- BWI and ATL maybe. Let's hope these planned new routes come to fruition!!

User currently offlineluv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12090 posts, RR: 49
Reply 17, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 17324 times:

Quoting ATLFlyer323 (Reply 15):
I wonder what Southwest will do with AirTran's CAK operations. I'm hoping they will not shift flights up to CLE, but is having 2 stations so close to each other profitable? I think it would be as CAK is more convenient for people in the Akron/Canton area than driving up to CLE. AirTran has made what CAK is today, and I hope Southwest keeps service. Just my .

-Brandon

With PIT, CLE and CMH all in the back yard of CAK I think its days are numbered. Though I would like to be wrong.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineAWACSooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1894 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 17243 times:

Add the DAY/CMH proximity to the list of whether both will stay...the loser will be DAY if one goes.

User currently offlineKcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3804 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 17053 times:

Quoting SurfandSnow (Thread starter):
AVL, CRW, MLI, ABE, UTM, other small AirTran markets - worked for FL, but just can't support WN service. They will probably be dropped just like the smaller Morris Air stations were. DSM, ICT, DAY, etc. might be able to survive.

What ICT pays FL isnt enough to keep WN. DSM has less AirTran presence than MLI and ABE, and the same as CRW and AVL.

Everyone seems to think all of these cities, in addition to TYS and LEX are goners, I'd love for WN to keep a few and see them do well.. just to prove everyone wrong (always a good time). We don't know how the flying and ground handling contracts are going to end up. If post merger WN can make stations with 4-7 flights work and be content with them, we're going to be watching a completely new ballgame.


User currently onlineLV From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 2002 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 17015 times:

Quoting point2point (Reply 5):
4) Las Vegas total: 55 yearly + 1seasonal

WN - 54 + 1 seasonal
Albany, Albuquerque, Amarillo, Austin, Baltimore, Birmingham (AL), Boise, Buffalo, Burbank, Chicago-Midway, Cleveland, Columbus (OH), Denver, El Paso, Fort Lauderdale, Hartford, Houston-Hobby, Indianapolis, Jacksonville (FL), Kansas City, Little Rock, Los Angeles, Louisville, Lubbock, Manchester (NH), Midland/Odessa, Milwaukee, Nashville, New Orleans, Oakland, Oklahoma City, Omaha, Ontario, Orange County, Orlando, Philadelphia, Phoenix, Pittsburgh, Portland (OR), Providence, Raleigh/Durham, Reno/Tahoe, Sacramento, St. Louis, Salt Lake City, San Antonio, San Diego, San Francisco, San Jose (CA), Seattle/Tacoma, Spokane, Tampa, Tucson, Tulsa
Seasonal: Norfolk/Virginia Beach

FL - 1
Atlanta

FL also flies to MKE from LAS


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22847 posts, RR: 20
Reply 21, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 17019 times:

Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 19):
Everyone seems to think all of these cities, in addition to TYS and LEX are goners, I'd love for WN to keep a few and see them do well.. just to prove everyone wrong (always a good time).

I see no reason why TYS can't work if GSP can. TYS is a bit smaller but with the University and not much service at CHA or TRI, I bet it would see just as much traffic.

[Edited 2011-02-01 20:29:22]


I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently onlineFL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1540 posts, RR: 12
Reply 22, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 16980 times:

Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 19):
Everyone seems to think all of these cities, in addition to TYS and LEX are goners, I'd love for WN to keep a few and see them do well.. just to prove everyone wrong (always a good time). We don't know how the flying and ground handling contracts are going to end up. If post merger WN can make stations with 4-7 flights work and be content with them, we're going to be watching a completely new ballgame.

I think the WN labor unions will decide what happens to these stations. I could be wrong but doesn't every WN station have WN workers above and below the wing? If WN unions allow pre-merger FL stations to remain completely outsourced then the stations may stay as long as they make money. I definitely don't see any way that these stations become all WN.



717,72S,732/3/4/5/G/8/9,744,752/3,763/4,772/3,D9S/5,M8/90,D10,319/20/21,332/3,388,CR2/7/9,EM2,ER4,E70/75/90,SF3,AR8
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22847 posts, RR: 20
Reply 23, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 16859 times:

Quoting FL787 (Reply 22):
I definitely don't see any way that these stations become all WN.

Not with sub-daily flights to a single destination, but that's not what WN would do with those stations. One of the problems with FL's network is that it's limited in what it can do in small-ish stations in the southeast where there's not a lot of local traffic to ATL. That leaves just a couple of options: MCO and BWI, and that's pretty thin. Depending on where exactly the stations are, WN can offer a menu of something like MCO, BWI, MDW, and one of BNA or ATL (whichever has the healthier local market). That helps spread the costs out quite a bit more.

[Edited 2011-02-01 20:37:16]


I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently onlineFL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1540 posts, RR: 12
Reply 24, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 16786 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 23):
Not with sub-daily flights to a single destination, but that's not what WN would do with those stations. One of the problems with FL's network is that it's limited in what it can do in small-ish stations in the southeast where there's not a lot of local traffic to ATL. That leaves just a couple of options: MCO and BWI, and that's pretty thin. Depending on where exactly the stations are, WN can offer a menu of something like MCO, BWI, MDW, and one of BNA or ATL (whichever has the healthier local market). That helps spread the costs out quite a bit more.

I agree with everything you said but I'm only talking about the really small stations where Florida is probably the only place to make money. I just don't see AVL, LEX, or CRW being able to support flights to your menu of destinations besides MCO. For many other FL stations though you're spot on.



717,72S,732/3/4/5/G/8/9,744,752/3,763/4,772/3,D9S/5,M8/90,D10,319/20/21,332/3,388,CR2/7/9,EM2,ER4,E70/75/90,SF3,AR8
25 point2point : ooops... 4) Las Vegas total: 56 yearly + 1seasonal
26 type-rated : Even though WN may be buying FL out they are calling it a merger because there are specific tax benefits you get by having a merger vs a buyout. Exxon
27 blueflyer : If Southwest is so worried about competition at DFW, they could just keep their gates there and not wait until 2014. But that would mean giving up ga
28 msypi7185 : FL to MKE was not listed as it is already listed under WN who flies to MKE, thus a duplicate market. Thus 55 + 1 seasonal would be correct.
29 Post contains images FilAmAirlines : What will happen to FNT service on FL? If WN remains in FNT, then MBS and (to a WAY lower extent) LAN will see either limited opportunities in growth.
30 AA43E : My question is this: What kind of service can we see here in MEM? WN would be a wonderful alternative to AA and DL and I gotta tell ya it would be gre
31 Atlwest1 : It was totally planned and expected for a second request, its not the first time a second request has been asked by merging entities. Make no mistake
32 bjorn14 : With the Wright Amendment expiring I don't see it as a panacea for WN because they are reducing DAL gates to 20 from 35. I believe 3 of those gates w
33 Post contains links rangercarp : I think ICT stays. Sedgwick County and the city of Wichita will pony up more cash if they need to. I would not be surprised if they drop ICT-ATL in f
34 rj777 : Anybody know what will be happening to the SkyWest flying? Like OMA-MKE for example?
35 AVLAirlineFreq : This is an interesting line of thought. I'm actually of the opinion that none of these medium-sized markets will lose service due to proximity. I thi
36 GSPSPOT : I know WN probably covets FL's presence at ATL and the ATL market itself, but would they REALLY want to tie up that many assets in a known cauldron o
37 bjorn14 : Well according to WN's pilot contract this is a big no-no, so unless its ammended OO goes bye-bye.
38 Cubsrule : The "tomorrow" is now different, but VX is $404 tomorrow and US is $233. Looks like the pricing pressure on AA is from either AA or VX. Agreed - but
39 FlyPNS1 : I agree. I think ICT can stay and WN can even serve it without subsidy. However, I too wouldn't be surprised to see ATL-ICT get dumped in favor of IC
40 Cubsrule : Is it a fair comparison, though? DAL-BDL is at least 2 stops on WN.
41 wwtraveler99 : Yes, DFW does lose the LCC, but DAL will gain. This balances out the DFW loses and keeps the service for the metro area from 2014 abd beyond when wri
42 AirRyan : Get to MEM already, I wanna go see Elvis.
43 VictorKilo : I'm wondering if the US-DL DCA and LGA slot swaps coming back to life isn't somehow tied to the WN-FL merger, with a solution for these DCA slots als
44 stlAV8R : Just curious about their Wi-Fi. With FL fully equipped with Go-Go and WN getting equipped with Row44, how will that pan out? I don't see WN dismantlin
45 exFATboy : Well, it is and it isn't...Southwest is acquiring AirTran Holdings, the parent company of AirTran Airways. AirTran Airways will then be merged into S
46 Flytravel : DAY can attract those from Cincinnati area that have no nearby WN service. Also, FL has been able to operate DAY-BWI, in addition to DAY-ATL.
47 wwtraveler99 : WN will stay with Row 44. The Go-Go will continue until they are fazed out during the transition period. I have heard rumor that XM will be staying bu
48 MaverickM11 : What about merging the mainline FL and WN pilots; how is that going to work?
49 wwtraveler99 : The 2 pilot unions will have discussions on intergration. If they unable to come to an agreement then it will be decided by an arbitrator. Hopefully
50 stlAV8R : Is this a for sure thing? I would think it would be the other way considering you want to pull all the stops in taking customers away from other airl
51 PWMRamper : FL's PWM-ATL flight is a seasonal one, as is PWM-MCO.
52 exFATboy : I think the decision on business class has already been taken and we should take WN at its word that it'll be dropped. It isn't that difficult from a
53 acjflyer : Many people, including a lot of WN employees aren't aware that the union contract for ground operations states that any city that WN serves with unde
54 Cubsrule : Within the assigned Business Select boarding pass range, the order is determined by checkin time. Early Bird and A List reserve a spot in the checkin
55 FlyPNS1 : You're missing the point. You claimed that AA is being disciplined with pricing because of WN on DFW-LAX. It's not because of WN, it's because of Vir
56 swa4life : Southwest will retain ALL of AirTran's cities except for DFW. Most of them will be worked by contractors. This is not speculation.
57 luv2fly : I don't really see DAY going away. The catchment area is larger and attracts the CVG crowd.
58 Atlwest1 : This is true, except for UTM and GPT.
59 PHLBOS : I think a bigger question will be HOW LONG will WN retain some other FL cities post-merger. IMHO, once the dust settles; I think we'll see some addit
60 wwtraveler99 : Yes this is true for a start. But this does not mean they will all be kept forever. Remember there will be a transition period. During this period WN
61 goblin211 : I think TPA is going to gain a lot of flights and put a smile on WN's face since they'll have sooooooo many routes. does this upgrade TPA's hub status
62 Cubsrule : I said no such thing. I said there is SOME evidence of SOME discipline outside of the perimeter. If you'd like an example without VX, take a look at
63 goldenstate : Let's wait and see how the integration shakes out and what the combined entity looks like after that process. SWA is acquiring an operator with about
64 airstatdfw : Can't really use that one either, b/c I am seeing all kinds of banners for VX DFW-SEA with a stop in LAX for only 129 each way. Plus you have AS also
65 Cubsrule : And AA isn't charging $129, are they?
66 FlyPNS1 : You said: No, but they don't have to exactly match VX to be competitive, since they offer a n/s. Also, F9 flies DFW-DEN-SEA, so there's pressure ther
67 Cubsrule : How about a market like BNA? WN's two walkups - on one-stop flights with no plane change are $284 and $299; AA's is $297. Who is providing the discip
68 WROORD : I am hoping for some int't connections as the current prices to CUN or PVR are rediculus over $500 plus bag fee. For the family of four it is getting
69 Kcrwflyer : I believe you but can you source that? That would make sense because flexibility to go into smaller cities is probably one of the reasons WN bought F
70 Indy : When was IND a sizable connection point for WN? As long as I can remember the flights here for WN have been limited to approximately 20 or less. Have
71 chrisair : They will end DFW as soon as the merger closes. WN is restricted from operating at DFW as per the 2006 WA settlement.[Edited 2011-02-02 14:02:53]
72 Post contains images nkops : Southwest doesn't have hubs... Man, I hope not... don't want NK to be the only game in town
73 Atlwest1 : Potato Potato Tomato tomato LOL
74 cjpark : Remind me of what we are supposed to be so happy with concerning this merger/aquisition. Less competition? Anything else we gain from losing Air Tran
75 RobertS975 : Be careful what you wish for! Rather than compete, sometimes DL chooses to leave the market.
76 wwtraveler99 : We gain the same thing that has come from just about every other merger. We has one less carrier. This will not be the last merger. The airlines will
77 Cubsrule : None - no publicly-held company could legally put together a merger (solely) to benefit the consumer. But mergers like FL/J7 or HP/US were probably n
78 rangercarp : You hit the nail on the head with that one! Air Tran typically dictates the prices on the routes I fly most often, and AA and DL match price within a
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