apodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3652 posts, RR: 6 Posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 1866 times:
I was looking around yesterday and even though just about every airline suspending ORD ops entirely due to the winter storm yesterday, I noticed NK still ran a full and complete ORD operation yesterday. Are they nuts? Why do this with the weather the way it was?
flyorski From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 978 posts, RR: 1 Reply 2, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1747 times:
Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 1): If you can fly, then do it. Other countries cope with this kind of weather and keep going.
The reason the U.S. no longer copes well with any weather of any kind is because of the dumb law that got passed fining the airlines A LOT of money if pax get stranded on an aircraft for too long. The fact is the infrastructure is in place to fly, however airlines are scared of facing mighty large fines and ground themselves. Looks like NK realized that with everyone else grounded they could get flights out without fear of delays over 3 hrs on the ground. The U.S. is on average much better prepared than say LHR for heavy snow weather, with all due respect to our British mates.
"None are more hopelessly enslaved, than those who falsly believe they are free" -Goethe
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21289 posts, RR: 19 Reply 3, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1745 times:
Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 1): Other countries cope with this kind of weather and keep going.
Which other hubs the size of ORD "keep going" after 20 inches of snow?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
PlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11253 posts, RR: 63 Reply 4, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1711 times:
Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 3): Which other hubs the size of ORD "keep going" after 20 inches of snow?
It was a general comment inferring that it's not nuts just to keep flying when you have heavy snow. If all the flights of one airline ran though, I'm presuming ORD itself kept going?
Quoting flyorski (Reply 2): The reason the U.S. no longer copes well with any weather of any kind is because of the dumb law that got passed fining the airlines A LOT of money if pax get stranded on an aircraft for too long.
That is indeed pretty counter-productive if it's what caused problems.
airbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 6953 posts, RR: 7 Reply 5, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1689 times:
Quoting flyorski (Reply 2): The reason the U.S. no longer copes well with any weather of any kind is because of the dumb law that got passed fining the airlines A LOT of money if pax get stranded on an aircraft for too long.
That's not the only reason. A major reason is to prevent aircraft and crew being stranded away from base which would cause a much bigger issue. I'm going to guess that ORD is not a NK base and that their operation there is tiny by comparison. Better to bring the aircraft and crew back to their hub is at all possible than risk it being stuck at ORD for who knows how long.
apodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3652 posts, RR: 6 Reply 6, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1682 times:
Quoting flyorski (Reply 2):
The reason the U.S. no longer copes well with any weather of any kind is because of the dumb law that got passed fining the airlines A LOT of money if pax get stranded on an aircraft for too long.
I am going to raise the BS flag on this one. Airlines have cancelled flights for winter ops for many years, long before this law went into place. The only time that the LOB situation ever comes into play is during thunderstorm season when NY Center cant or won't reroute planes around thunderstorms, thus they just hold everyone on the ground, and then give the airlines false information about when they can takeoff.
Truthfully, since this law was put into place, I haven't seen that many more cancels than before the law was put into place. And I work in the industry, so I think I am qualified to say something on this.
ckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 4684 posts, RR: 1 Reply 7, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1669 times:
The reason that UA and AA had such large numbers of cancellations is that ORD is a hub. If flights get out of whack and people miss connections, then you wind up sending people to hotels or sleeping in the airport. Considering the strength of the storm, trying to get to an from ORD would have been almost dangerous.
You figure that yesterday, at 3, 4, or 5 am, there would have been little traffic and easy to get NK crews from their hotel to ORD. So, operate the flights, even if they are empty due to passengers being unable to get to the airport.
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21289 posts, RR: 19 Reply 8, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1646 times:
Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 4): If all the flights of one airline ran though, I'm presuming ORD itself kept going?
Sure - but NK's handful of flights is a much different cup of tea from UA's 600.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
csturdiv From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1354 posts, RR: 3 Reply 9, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1627 times:
Quoting apodino (Thread starter): I was looking around yesterday and even though just about every airline suspending ORD ops entirely due to the winter storm yesterday, I noticed NK still ran a full and complete ORD operation yesterday. Are they nuts? Why do this with the weather the way it was?
Several years ago I flew NK from ORD-FLL-ORD for a cruise. The day I was flying ORD-FLL a major snowstorm hit Chicago, nothing like the blizzard, but it was bad. The flight was not cancelled, but delayed over 7 hours and we got into FLL very, very early in the morning. As they boarded us, they were urging people to get in and get their seats so we can take off before the weather got worse. It took about 5 times over the PA to get the slow people into their seats. They pushed us back, deiced us and then we pushed back to the gate as there were two people on who were sick and wanted off. We had to wait for those slow people to get off, then deice us again and we finally got away. I am glad we got away, despite the short sleep I had, I was on the cruise ship later in the morning heading towards the Caymans.
wncrew From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1322 posts, RR: 9 Reply 11, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1266 times:
Quoting apodino (Reply 6): I am going to raise the BS flag on this one. Airlines have cancelled flights for winter ops for many years, long before this law went into place.
Well you'd be wrong. Sure airlines have cancelled flights in the past but it is 100% true that after the laws were passed the airlines started preemptively canceling MUCH MUCH more than they did before. That's a fact.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
flyorski From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 978 posts, RR: 1 Reply 12, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1227 times:
Quoting wncrew (Reply 11): Well you'd be wrong. Sure airlines have cancelled flights in the past but it is 100% true that after the laws were passed the airlines started preemptively canceling MUCH MUCH more than they did before. That's a fact.
If I remember correctly the CEO of AA went so far as to make a statement that they are canceling based mostly on this law.
"None are more hopelessly enslaved, than those who falsly believe they are free" -Goethe
apodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3652 posts, RR: 6 Reply 13, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1214 times:
Quoting wncrew (Reply 11): Well you'd be wrong. Sure airlines have cancelled flights in the past but it is 100% true that after the laws were passed the airlines started preemptively canceling MUCH MUCH more than they did before. That's a fact.
I work in the industry and the rate of cancels has not increased that much since the law went into place, at least not at my carrier.
s4popo From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 225 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1032 times:
Quoting apodino (Reply 13): I work in the industry and the rate of cancels has not increased that much since the law went into place, at least not at my carrier.
rfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 6191 posts, RR: 25 Reply 15, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1016 times:
Quoting ckfred (Reply 7): The reason that UA and AA had such large numbers of cancellations is that ORD is a hub.
Another factor is that many of the hub and spoke flights are to/ from small airports - many of which have little to no ice clearance capabity. Many to most can handle a couple inches of snow with sweepers - but have no capacity to clear ice from the runway.
We have seen a lot of this with flights in the region around DFW this week. Long haul flights to major airports are running find. Short haul regional flights to smaller airports are not moving.
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