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Kingfisher Drops The A380 And A350?  
User currently offlineGarpd From UK - Scotland, joined Aug 2005, 2659 posts, RR: 4
Posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 20910 times:

I bet a few of us here didn't see this coming.

Fair use excerpt:

Quote:

Vijay Mallya’s Kingfisher Airlines has decided to change its earlier fleet acquisition plan. Though it aims to more than double the size from 66 to 137 aircraft by 2015-16, it does not now plan to induct Airbus 380s. The airline also does not plan to add Airbus 350s.
http://www.business-standard.com/ind...eworks-plane-purchase-plan/424141/



So, where are all the planes going to come from? Will they expand purely with second hand aircraft or has Boeing been busy?

[Edited 2011-02-04 16:06:05]


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39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11655 posts, RR: 60
Reply 1, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 20879 times:

Interestingly this source doesn't actually seem to state anything other than Kingfisher didn't return a comment. So because they didn't talk are they assuming the A380 (and A350) is not being taken? That seems like more than a leap of faith to me unless bizarrely they haven't published other information...

Quote:
When asked about the new delivery schedule of A380s, an airline spokesperson refused to talk on the issue. An email to the airline did not elicit any response.

Dan  

[Edited 2011-02-04 16:07:52]


...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineGarpd From UK - Scotland, joined Aug 2005, 2659 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 20754 times:

That quote merely states Kingfisher refused to comment on the issue. That doesn't mean the reporter made this up.
When an airline refuses to comment on the price paid for an order, does it mean the order is not real?

Perhaps a leaked memo?
Or some tactic to get some free PR?

[Edited 2011-02-04 16:14:46]


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User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11655 posts, RR: 60
Reply 3, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 20535 times:

Quoting Garpd (Reply 2):
When an airline refuses to comment on the price paid for an order, does it mean the order is not real?

Apples and oranges. As a business publication you stumble across a leaked memo stating an A380 order is going to be cancelled, and you release it as a few unsubstantiated lines in amongst further fleet speculation. Now that would be a strange decision...


Dan  

[Edited 2011-02-04 16:58:50]


...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlinecomorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4896 posts, RR: 16
Reply 4, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 20393 times:

As an armchair mystic, I'd guess that this is a tipping point for IT. They had a bold initial vision, but were stymied by a recession, high fuel prices and low fares. At $100 oil, things are not letting up for them. Their balance sheet must have taken a beating, and you do need a big balance sheet like EK to nurture routes and build market share. Their revised fleet needs will be based on a new and drastically reduced identity, a high end regional player.

Thanks Kingfisher for setting new standards inflight, and even if you go back to selling beer, it was a valiant effort. You were ahead of your time, and the GOI should and could have helped you a lot more if they weren't competing with you at the same time with AI. Or look at QF, even they have had to rethink their long term plans, as discussed elsewhere on Civ Av.


User currently offlineYVRLTN From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 2469 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 20291 times:

Quoting Garpd (Thread starter):
I bet a few of us here didn't see this coming.

Au contraire, I bet half of this board never expected them to take A380's. The A350's however....

So I guess more A330's and probably A32SNEO's to say sorry to Airbus and keep them sweet.



Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11655 posts, RR: 60
Reply 6, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 20246 times:

Quoting Garpd (Reply 4):
Time will tell I suppose. But my point was that an airline not commenting does not mean it's not true.

An airline spokesman not commenting on a delivery schedule is apparently being presented as the sole evidence for the carrier cancelling the type, making it pretty likely that the journalist is clutching at straws I'm afraid. This would be far bigger news on it's own otherwise.


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineGarpd From UK - Scotland, joined Aug 2005, 2659 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 20213 times:

I think you need to re-read the article. The author clearly means the airline will not comment on the delivery schedule in the light of this new information.


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User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11655 posts, RR: 60
Reply 8, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 20139 times:

Quoting Garpd (Reply 8):

I think you need to re-read the article. The author clearly means the airline will not comment on the delivery schedule in the light of this new information.

No, I really don't. It just sounds like more of the speculative fodder which gets churned out every day; lose assumptions, no formal source or even mention of one. I say, maybe it is true, but this article is not presenting it in a way which that is believable or trustworthy.


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30992 posts, RR: 86
Reply 9, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 20087 times:
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IF IT has decided to cancel their order for the A380 and A350, it would be prudent of the airline to not confirm such a decision until the actual cancellation paperwork has been completed.

What will be interesting is if indeed IT wants to cancel, will Airbus let them? After all, they didn't allow TG to cancel their six A380-800s (as in TG would have forfeited their deposits) or convert those orders to other Airbus models.


User currently offlinetrex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 4768 posts, RR: 14
Reply 10, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 19747 times:
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Quoting Stitch (Reply 10):
What will be interesting is if indeed IT wants to cancel, will Airbus let them? After all, they didn't allow TG to cancel their six A380-800s (as in TG would have forfeited their deposits) or convert those orders to other Airbus models.

I suspect that IT would be bankrupt if they had to take the new planes and wouldn't be able to even pay and take delivery of them at all, TG would have been poorer but not bankrupt and would still have been able to use them though they may have had better ideas of what to spend the money on and A knows this. JL keeps saying he could sell more A380s if earlier delivery positions were available, well, the IT positions just opened up!


User currently offlineeraugrad02 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1227 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 19522 times:

could th reason why boeing is going to Indian airshow this month give us any pause?

Desmond in ILM,



Desmond MacRae in ILM
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6658 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 19380 times:

I'm not convinced the articles proves anything, but at least the reason given (which is the one everybody was speculating about here) is that they don't need the planes, so they won't need 777 or 748 either !


New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21531 posts, RR: 59
Reply 13, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 19273 times:

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 6):
Au contraire, I bet half of this board never expected them to take A380's. The A350's however....

And we were called haters and anti-Airbus for daring to suggest that IT had no actual use for the A380 and would never take them.

Now are we still haters for doubting VS will ever take theirs?



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6171 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 19029 times:

while the 788 IMHO would be ideal....I seriously doubt that would happen. If this story is true at all...I would say 320/1s and 332s


When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21531 posts, RR: 59
Reply 15, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 18242 times:

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 15):
I would say 320/1s and 332s

A sound business plan that has suited many airlines around the world well enough.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlinetrex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 4768 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 18109 times:
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Quoting ikramerica (Reply 14):
Now are we still haters for doubting VS will ever take theirs?

Except Branson keeps traveling the world saying VS will take them- heard it myself on c span last year when he was addressing some meeting in the US, maybe he's smoking something but he still owns or at least runs the outfit doesn't he?.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15744 posts, RR: 27
Reply 17, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 17659 times:

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 1):

Interestingly this source doesn't actually seem to state anything other than Kingfisher didn't return a comment. So because they didn't talk are they assuming the A380 (and A350) is not being taken?

Well, you would expect something like "We are eagerly awaiting delivery of our A380s..." but I think people are probably reading too much into this.

Quoting eraugrad02 (Reply 12):

could th reason why boeing is going to Indian airshow this month give us any pause?

I think that it isn't that Kingfisher doesn't want them, it's that they can't really afford them.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinebehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4784 posts, RR: 43
Reply 18, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 17311 times:

I think Kingfisher should actually keep the A 380s and A 350s in its order books because they can sell it off at a size able profit. Remember they bought these aircraft at comparatively cheap prices in 2006 and when it comes to taking actual delivery of them, it should not be a problem selling these birds to interested parties at a decent profit level especially the A 350s!!!

Remember, two years ago they sold their A 345s and made approximately 10-12% profit in doing so in addition to benefiting from the Indian Rupee exchange rate.

Yes they dont need to operate the A 380 on any route but one aircraft which they really need more of I feel is an A 321 (with 1 additional fuel tank) to operate on high density routes within a 5 hour flying radius of India as these market segments are growing rapidly which would make the A 320 a bit too small to use on these flights within 2 years.


User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5582 posts, RR: 28
Reply 19, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 17069 times:

Bummer if true. The Kingfisher A380 was actually one of the ones I was looking forward to! But the vast orders for all these newer frames for A and B will obviously be pared somewhat over time. It's like one's eye's being bigger than one's stomache.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineVIDP From India, joined Feb 2010, 161 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 16517 times:

Quoting comorin (Reply 4):
Their balance sheet must have taken a beating,

I have been following up Kingfisher,s development for awhile now. On the contrary IT,s Balance sheet seems to be improving quater by quater. They have successfully replanned their Debt through SBI capital and would be the first indian private carrier to join an alliance which it would ultimately help them prop up their yields further.

Primarily we all have been critical of Kingfisher Airlines not because of the service ( which i feel is far superior than competiton) but because of flamboyant gossip/ talk which the chairman (VJM) often does. But i think the guy has become more sensible over period of time and understands that running an airline is not a cake walk probably more tougher than running a brewery and selling liquor.

Yes the current international plans more or less rest upon their trustworthy A332,s . Non stops can wait but i am sure they can always look to launch their one stop services to US/Australia.


User currently offlinehawkercamm From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2007, 405 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 15810 times:

Perhaps they are waiting for the A380R to be able to operate direct to JFK and LAX from BLR and DEL?

[Edited 2011-02-05 00:09:27]

[Edited 2011-02-05 00:10:45]

User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12146 posts, RR: 51
Reply 22, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 15004 times:

Somehow I doubt that if Kingfisher cancels the A-350 and/or A-380 orders it will mean the total downfall of EADS/Airbus. IIRC, Kingfisher only has 5 A-350s and 5 A-380s on order.

Didn't Kingfisher at one time have 10 A-340-500s on order and ended up canceling 5 of them and converting the other 5 to the A-330-200? In the A-332 deal, IIRC, Kingfisher claimed the got 'the best A-330 ever built'. So maybe they will just convert the 5 A-350s and 5 A-380s to more A-330s, and get an even better built A-330?         


User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11655 posts, RR: 60
Reply 23, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 14452 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 17):
Well, you would expect something like "We are eagerly awaiting delivery of our A380s..."

It would be the obvious comeback, but to some extent it depends who the spokesman they asked was and if his position allowed for comment.


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineGiancavia From Vatican City, joined Feb 2010, 1366 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 14174 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 12):
I'm not convinced the articles proves anything, but at least the reason given (which is the one everybody was speculating about here) is that they don't need the planes, so they won't need 777 or 748 either !

^ what he said.


25 Sankaps : KF's order for the A380 was just the owner's ego wanting the biggest and the newest, nevermind whether there is a need or business case or not. I thi
26 Post contains images solnabo : I don´t see IT flying the big beer cans in near (and far) future, the A332 n 32X´s will do the work My
27 thediplomat : The kingfisher A380 order, just like the VS A380 order, was a folly, and nothing else. IT should stick to A330 flying.
28 shankly : The analogy is perfect Ikra. IT is the Indian VS. Bigger than life owners who have created bigger than life airlines, when in fact both are at best m
29 Sankaps : Yes, IT tried to emulate VS in many ways, especially in terms of image and marketing. But VS is professionally run, that is the big difference. Both
30 Burkhard : I would miss that livery. But let us wait for the official word first... If Kingfisher wants to stay in the long range buisiness, and even grow that,
31 Stitch : I was just looking over IT's A320/A332/A345/A358 MoU contract with Airbus and IT only had to make a 1% pre-delivery payment for each frames and it ap
32 Post contains images comorin : As they say, owning an airline is how Billionaires become Millionaires! That's good to know and I hope they succeed - I want my JFK-BLR nonstop! How
33 ordjoe : Does not surprise me at all IT is definitly the VS of India, throughly 3string. With fuel prices as they are and the likes of EY, EK and the sort I do
34 ikramerica : It just seems that VS is much better off with A330s/787s and A340s (or gasp, 777s) than with 747s and A380s. The only reason at all to have the a380
35 trex8 : Weren't the A330s taken in place of the A346s?
36 QFA787380 : Possible 1st A380 pax cancellation. Oh dear!
37 Burkhard : I would be really surprised if they cancel the A380. Shifting them to 5 years after Delta gets its 787 is not unlikely, but a complete cancellation I
38 HAWK21M : Looks like IT would want to get their Grounded A320s flying first & settling their pending dues,before expanding further.
39 Burkhard : Yes. They definitively are hit hard by Wall Street crisis, and 3-4 years behind their plans. Hope they can fully recover and receive their first A380
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