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CX Need A380 Or Not  
User currently offlinecx828 From Hong Kong, joined May 2007, 161 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 15245 times:
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With HKG is still not decided whether to buid the third runway and is getting full and CX's 747 are average 20 years old. So what is the future plan for CX ?? Use A 380 or 747-8 to replace them?? Even CX order now, it needs five years for Airbus to deliver and the 747 will be average 25 years old then.

58 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8428 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 15216 times:
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Quoting cx828 (Thread starter):
With HKG is still not decided whether to buid the third runway and is getting full and CX's 747 are average 20 years old. So what is the future plan for CX ?? Use A 380 or 747-8 to replace them?? Even CX order now, it needs five years for Airbus to deliver and the 747 will be average 25 years old then.

Many 744 will be replaced by 777-300ER before then. Also those Cathay 744 have been remodeled often and are kept in pristine condition, a 20 year old Cathay plane is not your average 20 year old 747.


User currently onlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12519 posts, RR: 35
Reply 2, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 15145 times:

I've lost count of the number of times this subject has come up. Basically, CX's line is that it is not interested in the current A380-800, but may be interested in the -900 or an upgraded -800.

The CX 744s may be in excellent condition and may go another few years with the new CX service product soon to be rolled out, but the fact is, a 744 is still a 744 and as great an airplane as it is, it is pretty much "old hat" compared to the 77W and A380. I have no doubt that CX will order the A380, but it won't be this year and probably not next. Rest assured that Airbus has CX very much on its radar as a potential A380 customer, so it will happen ... just not imminently.


User currently offlinecx828 From Hong Kong, joined May 2007, 161 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 14792 times:
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CX has interest on A380-900 series but airbus still don;t have the schedule on it. How many years can 747 still last?? 773ER don;t have the capacity to handle 744. It takes five to six 773ER to handle same capacity of four flights a day 744 to LHR. Does LHR has so many slots for CX?? HKG is also start to get full.

User currently offlinedennys From France, joined May 2001, 894 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 14602 times:

I still thlnk that CX needs to choose within this current year .
Airbus does not speak about his A380-900 , maybe because not so many airlines seem to be concerned by this project
The 747-8i is now about to roll out . I bet on this new 747 for CX .


User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31115 posts, RR: 85
Reply 5, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 14478 times:
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Quoting cx828 (Reply 3):
It takes five to six 773ER to handle same capacity of four flights a day 744 to LHR. Does LHR has so many slots for CX?

But CX is not flying four 747-400s a day between HKG and LHR, are they? It looks like a daily 744 and A343 if I am reading the timetable correctly.


User currently onlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12519 posts, RR: 35
Reply 6, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 14442 times:

Quoting dennys (Reply 4):
Airbus does not speak about his A380-900 , maybe because not so many airlines seem to be concerned by this project

Maybe not publicly, but I would be very surprised if Airbus were not in discussions with a group of current major A380 operators (LH, VS, SQ) and prospective A380 operators (CX) about the A380-900.


User currently offlineAlasizon From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 289 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 14409 times:

Quoting kaitak (Reply 6):
current major A380 operators (LH, VS, SQ)

While I know LH and SQ operate the A380, do you know something we don't about VS?



Window seats may be over-rated, but I'll take a window seat on a DC9 anyday
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20738 posts, RR: 62
Reply 8, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 14388 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 5):
But CX is not flying four 747-400s a day between HKG and LHR, are they? It looks like a daily 744 and A343 if I am reading the timetable correctly.

Picking a couple of random days in February it looks like 3x 744, with the 4th LHR flight alternating between the A343 and the 77W.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently onlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12519 posts, RR: 35
Reply 9, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 14166 times:

Quoting Alasizon (Reply 7):
Quoting kaitak (Reply 6):
current major A380 operators (LH, VS, SQ)

While I know LH and SQ operate the A380, do you know something we don't about VS?

Sorry ... I meant to say "customers"!


User currently offlineAlasizon From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 289 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 14142 times:

Quoting kaitak (Reply 9):
Quoting Alasizon (Reply 7):
Quoting kaitak (Reply 6):
current major A380 operators (LH, VS, SQ)

While I know LH and SQ operate the A380, do you know something we don't about VS?

Sorry ... I meant to say "customers"!

I would definitely include EK and QF in there then



Window seats may be over-rated, but I'll take a window seat on a DC9 anyday
User currently offlineQFA787380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 14042 times:

As a frequency based carrier CX has little need for a 380 sized plane, with LHR being the possible exception. Would they buy a small number for one route? Maybe, but unlikely IMO. The 77W/330/359 combo seems quite ideal for them and I think they are pretty comfortable with their fleet choices.

User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12158 posts, RR: 51
Reply 12, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 13381 times:

Quoting kaitak (Reply 2):
Rest assured that Airbus has CX very much on its radar as a potential A380 customer, so it will happen ... just not imminently.

Well, the A-389 is not even launched. Airbus may have CX on its radar, but CX doesn't have the A-380 on theirs. It has to be on both radar sets to happen.

Even if Airbus decided to launch the A-380-900 this year, which they don't even have on their radar, any CX order, even a launch customer order, would take at least 5-6 years before the first delivery. So we are talking about 2016 as the earliest date that CX could get one.

Quoting dennys (Reply 4):
The 747-8i is now about to roll out . I bet on this new 747 for CX .

I would too. CX already has 10 B-747-8Fs on order and CX knows that if they were to order the B-747-8I, they could get the first one delivered in 3 years, or less.

CX was the launch customer for the B-777-300, and that aircraft has the most seats aboard of any CX aircraft with 398 seats, while there B-747-400s have 369 seats. CX was the Asian launch customer for the A-340-600.

However, CX has also delayed accepting delivery of some B-777-300ERs and A-330-300s they have on order. They also returned all of their leased A-340-600s (IIRC they only had 4-6 A-346s).

Recently, because of the worldwide economic situation, in addition to returning the A-346 to the leasor, they parked 4 A-340-300s and 2 B-747-400s at VCV, in addition to delaying deliveries for the B-77W and A-333. They also delayed or canceled their new freight center at HKG.

Currently CX has some 22 B-744s and some 11 A-343s and a few B-77Ws as their long haul fleet.

The average fleet age of CX aircraft is only 11 years, not including the KA aircraft


User currently offlinemanfredj From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1132 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 12555 times:

Can anyone calculate the cost savings of running a 777 on the same route as a 744 with the same passengers and cargo? When and where does the 747 become the better airplane for any given mission?

Quoting kaitak (Reply 2):
still a 744 and as great an airplane as it is, it is pretty much "old hat" compared to the 77W and A380.

Exactly how "old hat" is a 744 in terms of efficiency?



757: The last of the best
User currently offlinezvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 14, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 12165 times:

CX have on order another 18 777-300ERs in addition to the 18 777-300ERs already in service, plus 30 A350-900s to replace their 22 747-400s and 11 A340-300s. That's 48 long-haul aircraft to replace 33 older long-haul aircraft. The implicit idea of this thread that CX will cancel these recent orders for popular aircraft (from both Airbus and Boeing) and order unpopular aircraft (from either Airbus or Boeing) instead is amusing. The idea that CX will grow their long-haul fleet substantially faster than from 51 to 66 aircraft in the next decade is even more amusing. CX have already placed their long-haul orders for the decade. By the time CX need to start contemplating another long-haul order (probably between 2015 and 2020), both Airbus and Boeing will probably have new offerings not available today.

User currently offlineaa43e From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 68 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 11508 times:

Quoting cx828 (Reply 3):
How many years can 747 still last??

If you look at the US Air Force as an example of what kind of longevity a working airframe can expect then I'd say another 15-25 years easily with regular upgrades and maintenance. Will they stretch them that far? Probably not.


User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 5054 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 11284 times:

Quoting manfredj (Reply 13):
Can anyone calculate the cost savings of running a 777 on the same route as a 744 with the same passengers and cargo? When and where does the 747 become the better airplane for any given mission?

CX operate their 77W with 301 seats and the 744 with 379 seats so it is a bit of an apples and oranges comparison. IF they were to operate both types westbound HKG-LHR the ESAD is ~6163nm based on CX's sector time of 13hr 15min. The max payload of the 744 is about 49t and the 77W 48t. Both would have full passenger load and all available belly cargo space filled based on a density of 160kg.m^3. The fuel load of the 744 would be ~173t and the 77W ~ 138t. This does not answer your question in the way you phrased it but hopefully gives you a fairly close idea of how they stack up against each other.


User currently offlineQFA787380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 10828 times:

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 16):
CX operate their 77W with 301 seats and the 744 with 379 seats so it is a bit of an apples and oranges comparison. IF they were to operate both types westbound HKG-LHR the ESAD is ~6163nm based on CX's sector time of 13hr 15min. The max payload of the 744 is about 49t and the 77W 48t. Both would have full passenger load and all available belly cargo space filled based on a density of 160kg.m^3. The fuel load of the 744 would be ~173t and the 77W ~ 138t. This does not answer your question in the way you phrased it but hopefully gives you a fairly close idea of how they stack up against each other.

what are the premium cabin numbers like for 77W v 744 at CX? I thought the F/J seats were quite comparable b/w the 2 and the 744 had more low yielding Y seats.


User currently offlineCX Flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6616 posts, RR: 55
Reply 18, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 10689 times:

Quoting aa43e (Reply 15):
Quoting cx828 (Reply 3):
How many years can 747 still last??

If you look at the US Air Force as an example of what kind of longevity a working airframe can expect then I'd say another 15-25 years easily with regular upgrades and maintenance. Will they stretch them that far? Probably not.

Latest figure quoted internally is the last pax 744 to leave by 2017. However this date seems to change every few months. If another downturn happens then no doubt they will be retired more quickly. In 2009 during the latest downturn 2015 was quoted as the date.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 12):
Recently, because of the worldwide economic situation, in addition to returning the A-346 to the leasor, they parked 4 A-340-300s and 2 B-747-400s at VCV, in addition to delaying deliveries for the B-77W and A-333. They also delayed or canceled their new freight center at HKG.

The building of the freight terminal is now in full swing. There is only one 744 pax not in service now and that is B-HOO which is being scrapped. B-HUA has returned to service already. The four A343s will remain out of service and have been/will be returned to ILFC.


I have heard a rumour that one of the big leasing companies (GECAS? ILFC? - I can't remember) has a few A380s on order for delivery 2012 which have no assigned customer yet. Apparently CX are in talks to take some of these. Anyone able to tell me if it is true that there are A380s next year with no customers yet?


User currently offlineAsiaflyer From Singapore, joined May 2007, 1140 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 10532 times:

Quoting aa43e (Reply 15):
If you look at the US Air Force as an example of what kind of longevity a working airframe can expect then I'd say another 15-25 years easily with regular upgrades and maintenance. Will they stretch them that far? Probably not.

As US taxpayers pays the fule bill for USAF, it is not really a relevant comparison.

The 747 is a fuel guzzler comparing to 77W, 787, A350 and A380,
and as higher the oilprice goes, the worse the numbers for 747 looks.



SQ,MI,MH,CX,KA,CA,CZ,MU,KE,OZ,QF,NZ,FD,JQ,3K,5J,IT,AI,IC,QR,SK,LF,KL,AF,LH,LX,OS,SR,BA,SN,FR,WF,1I,5T,VZ,VX,AC,NW,UA,US,
User currently offlineLifelinerOne From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 1923 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 9920 times:

Quoting aa43e (Reply 15):
If you look at the US Air Force as an example of what kind of longevity a working airframe can expect then I'd say another 15-25 years easily with regular upgrades and maintenance. Will they stretch them that far? Probably not.



Well, the USAF Jumbo's aren't picking up the same amount of hours that the Cathay birds are doing, so comparing those two isn''t the best idea.

Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 18):

I have heard a rumour that one of the big leasing companies (GECAS? ILFC? - I can't remember) has a few A380s on order for delivery 2012 which have no assigned customer yet. Apparently CX are in talks to take some of these. Anyone able to tell me if it is true that there are A380s next year with no customers yet?



ILFC has an outstanding order for the A380. Originally the first five were to be delivered in 2013, but were deferred to 2014 now. According to Flight Global, they will get five in 2014, three in 2015 en two in 2016. They were able to cancel their order until 31 December 2010, but they didn't, so it looks like they see perspective for the plane. So, if Cathay is talking with ILFC it will still be 2014 before a plane can be delivered.

Cheers!   



Only Those Who Sleep Don't Make Mistakes
User currently offlinezeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9154 posts, RR: 76
Reply 21, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 9277 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 12):
Airbus may have CX on its radar, but CX doesn't have the A-380 on theirs.

Says who ? recent public comments from top managers in CX would not indicate that at all.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 12):
CX already has 10 B-747-8Fs on order

They have not turned out as expected, I am sure if they had their time over, 777F would have been ordered.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 12):
CX was the launch customer for the B-777-300, and that aircraft has the most seats aboard of any CX aircraft with 398

The 777-300 is a regional aircraft, with a regional configuration, it is not a long haul aircraft. It is also possible that additional second hand 777-300s may come into the fleet.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 12):
CX was the Asian launch customer for the A-340-600.

CX never ordered the A340-600, they were always leased.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 12):
CX has also delayed accepting delivery of some B-777-300ERs and A-330-300s they have on order.

During the GFC, all over now.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 12):
Recently, because of the worldwide economic situation, in addition to returning the A-346 to the leasor, they parked 4 A-340-300s and 2 B-747-400s at VCV, in addition to delaying deliveries for the B-77W and A-333. They also delayed or canceled their new freight center at HKG.

The A340-600s had nothing to do with the GFC, and the A340-300s have gone back/in the process of going back to their respective lease companies in line with fleet plans made public in annual reports for years now.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 12):
Currently CX has some 22 B-744s and some 11 A-343s and a few B-77Ws as their long haul fleet.

"few B-77Ws", interesting term considering the number in service.

Quoting zvezda (Reply 14):
CX have on order another 18 777-300ERs in addition to the 18 777-300ERs already in service, plus 30 A350-900s to replace their 22 747-400s and 11 A340-300s

The A350s are not necessarily -900s, and the 777s and A350s on order are not necessarily to replace the A340/744. There are 30 orders + 30 options for A350s in the system, and many will go onto current A330 routes where the A330 has become too small.

Quoting zvezda (Reply 14):
That's 48 long-haul aircraft to replace 33 older long-haul aircraft

Which is not enough, look at the passenger numbers published each month to see the trends.

Quoting zvezda (Reply 14):
The implicit idea of this thread that CX will cancel these recent orders for popular aircraft (from both Airbus and Boeing) and order unpopular aircraft (from either Airbus or Boeing) instead is amusing.

You are the only "person" saying that, no one else is talking about cancelling the existing orders.

Quoting zvezda (Reply 14):
The idea that CX will grow their long-haul fleet substantially faster than from 51 to 66 aircraft in the next decade is even more amusing.

CX has been doubling its fleet size every 10 years. Honk Kong Airlines another relatively new carrier in Hong Kong, already has orders/plans for around 100 aircraft which is a comparable size to the CX passenger fleet.

Quoting zvezda (Reply 14):
By the time CX need to start contemplating another long-haul order (probably between 2015 and 2020), both Airbus and Boeing will probably have new offerings not available today.

I think another order will be in the system within the next 24 months.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlinecloudyapple From Hong Kong, joined Jul 2005, 2454 posts, RR: 10
Reply 22, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 9090 times:

Quoting cx828 (Reply 3):
CX has interest on A380-900 series but airbus still don;t have the schedule on it. How many years can 747 still last?? 773ER don;t have the capacity to handle 744. It takes five to six 773ER to handle same capacity of four flights a day 744 to LHR. Does LHR has so many slots for CX?? HKG is also start to get full.

Not everything has to be made public for your consumption. Fact that you have not heard anything does not mean nothing has happened.

Capacity at HKG is not a big issue at the moment. Certainly not big enough to warrant an immediate order for bigger aircraft for delivery asap. If it was they would not have bought the B77W.

Quoting dennys (Reply 4):
The 747-8i is now about to roll out . I bet on this new 747 for CX .

I bet not. This is going to be a stray breed like the B764. Boeing will unlikely build any more than 35-40 of them. They will be worth next to nothing in the second hand market. With only a handful and an unsuitable airframe, there is unlikely to be any BCF programme, which will depress value further. Those who have chosen to take it will have to write off most of their value and sell them cheap when they are done with them. Unfortunately it's not you, the sofa CFO, but actual real world bean counters who are making the call.

Boeing is stuck in this chicken and egg situation with the -I. It's old technology, perceived or otherwise, and A380 competition are not helping sales, which this in its own self is a factor for the aircraft not selling. "I'm not buying one if no one else is buying any." It's the exact opposite to the B787 effect.

Quoting kaitak (Reply 6):
Maybe not publicly, but I would be very surprised if Airbus were not in discussions with a group of current major A380 operators

  

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 12):
Airbus may have CX on its radar, but CX doesn't have the A-380 on theirs. It has to be on both radar sets to happen.

When did they ever say categorically they didn't want the A380?

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 12):
CX already has 10 B-747-8Fs on order

This is an irrelevant issue. Emirates has also the -F on order and yet they slammed the door on the -I. The lack of any residual commercial value in the -I in any potential secondhand market is killing sales.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 12):
CX was the launch customer for the B-777-300, and that aircraft has the most seats aboard of any CX aircraft with 398 seats, while there B-747-400s have 369 seats. CX was the Asian launch customer for the A-340-600.

However, CX has also delayed accepting delivery of some B-777-300ERs and A-330-300s they have on order. They also returned all of their leased A-340-600s (IIRC they only had 4-6 A-346s).

Recently, because of the worldwide economic situation, in addition to returning the A-346 to the leasor, they parked 4 A-340-300s and 2 B-747-400s at VCV, in addition to delaying deliveries for the B-77W and A-333. They also delayed or canceled their new freight center at HKG.

Currently CX has some 22 B-744s and some 11 A-343s and a few B-77Ws as their long haul fleet.

The average fleet age of CX aircraft is only 11 years, not including the KA aircraft

A lot of this is factually wrong and is completely irrelevant to the thread.

Quoting aa43e (Reply 15):
If you look at the US Air Force as an example of what kind of longevity a working airframe can expect then I'd say another 15-25 years easily with regular upgrades and maintenance. Will they stretch them that far? Probably not.

Planes in the USAF do not fly back to back 14hour missions with 2 hour turnarounds 28 days a month.

So my take is that with capacity at HKG reaching its 2-runway limit in 2015, demand likely to catch up with capacity in 2017/18 or sooner and the third runway not being available until at least 2021 if they were to start building today which they aren't, a bigger plane will be required from 2015/16. There's still time to wait for the A389 and don't forget the B777 Adv which Boeing has been in discussion since 2009 with a select number of airlines execs including you know who.

Let's see when this sort of topic will pop up again. Not long I bet.



A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4401 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 8166 times:

Quoting cloudyapple (Reply 22):
Those who have chosen to take it will have to write off most of their value and sell them cheap when they are done with them. Unfortunately it's not you, the sofa CFO, but actual real world bean counters who are making the call.

"Those" mostly refers to one costumor who uses to fly its long range equipment for 25 years minimum, so does not bother about resale value a lot - and is eagerly waiting for this much needed capacity.


User currently offlinefrigatebird From Netherlands, joined Jun 2008, 1639 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 7669 times:

Quoting zeke (Reply 21):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 12):
CX already has 10 B-747-8Fs on order

They have not turned out as expected, I am sure if they had their time over, 777F would have been ordered.

You've claimed this a few times here, but so far I haven't heard many other credible rumors to support this. Do you have any evidence that the 747-8 is under-performing? There is still almost half a year before EIS, still time left to improve economics further, who knows.

But if the 747-8F will be below contractually guaranteed performance, and CX would rather have 77F's instead, why would Boeing refuse? It would be better than having to pay penalties.


Quoting cloudyapple (Reply 22):
Quoting dennys (Reply 4):
The 747-8i is now about to roll out . I bet on this new 747 for CX .

I bet not. This is going to be a stray breed like the B764. Boeing will unlikely build any more than 35-40 of them. They will be worth next to nothing in the second hand market. With only a handful and an unsuitable airframe, there is unlikely to be any BCF programme, which will depress value further. Those who have chosen to take it will have to write off most of their value and sell them cheap when they are done with them. Unfortunately it's not you, the sofa CFO, but actual real world bean counters who are making the call.

Boeing is stuck in this chicken and egg situation with the -I. It's old technology, perceived or otherwise, and A380 competition are not helping sales, which this in its own self is a factor for the aircraft not selling. "I'm not buying one if no one else is buying any." It's the exact opposite to the B787 effect.

That may very well be one of the reasons the 748i hasn't sold much yet, but is this really such an issue with CX? Unlike SQ, they prefer to fly their airplanes at least 20 years - not unlike LH.



146,318/19/20/21,AB6,332,343,345,388,722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9,742,74E,744,752,762,763,772,77E,773,77W,AT4/7,ATP,CRK,E90,F50/7
25 Post contains images ATLFlyer323 : Not to argue against you, but the 747-8i has a completely new wing, one of the most crucial aspects in aircraft design. So calling it completely "old
26 Post contains images travelavnut : I wouldn't call it "already have 33 on order" but rather "only have 33 on order", of which 25 will go to only 2 actual airlines. The -8F is a no-brai
27 KC135TopBoom : That is true for the VC-25As, but the E-4Bs fly a lot of hours and sorties per year. Still not what an airline flies with the B-747, but they do fly
28 zeke : You should be able to find information from Boeing where they originally claimed they could do HKG-ANC with full structural payload, that is no longe
29 manfredj : Thanks for this. There is also the effect an airplane has on doing much better than expected performance wise. This will be the single biggest factor
30 airbazar : I'm pretty sure it is. Given that, the fact that they haven't ordered it yet tells me they favor the A380 but are still working out the details.
31 Viscount724 : In an interview late last year, CX's outgoing CEO, Tony Tyler, was quoted as follows (referring to the A380): "I wouldn't rule out the airline becomi
32 YVRLTN : They could certainly fill it to YVR & LAX, probably YYZ too. Yields however I dont know, but I dont think CX are exactly in a JL situation with l
33 cpd : He's not the only one who thinks that way: I don't agree or disagree with Mr Dixon's comments - but it's some high profile support for the person abo
34 cloudyapple : For the record, I did not make any judgement on what technology the B748 has. I qualified it with "perceived or otherwise". Whether it is new or old
35 United Airline : YVR, FRA, CDG, LAX, SFO, NRT, LHR etc are all possible A380 routes
36 QFA787380 : Which of those are slot restricted apart from LHR?
37 trex8 : Isn't NRT?
38 jfk777 : Tokyo's Narita is definitely slot restricted. Haneda is also restricted.
39 CX Flyboy : CX already has a large number of flights to Tokyo if you include Haneda and Narita, and most of these flights do not use the largest aircraft in the
40 trex8 : But if traffic increases and not slots, you would have to upgauge.
41 jfk777 : Thanks, I am well aware of Cathay's route system and shedule on major routes. Can appreciate the difference between an 777-300 and a 777-300ER, at Ca
42 Lutfi : Yep, Cathay has 7 flights a day to Tokyo now. They've got more flights than JL/NH/UA/DL combined I think! I would expect another CX order soon, for gr
43 Post contains images zvezda : With the explosive growth of low-cost carriers in Asia, there is no way that legacy carriers like CX (or SQ, JL, KE, etc.) will double in capacity fr
44 trex8 : Sorta like the half dozen 742s they bought 30 years ago just for TPE-TYO, SIN and LHR right?
45 Lutfi : CX ended up with 20 or so B747-200, including the freighters. And TPE, TYO, SIN and LHR (I would add YVR and OSA into the list too) are more than one
46 CX Flyboy : Four years is a long time. Unless there is another downturn, I recokon there is a good chance for more planes to be ordered, especially if Boeing lau
47 PVG : Since CX has already ordered the A350 and seems unlikely to order more 777W, wouldn't make sense for Boeing to make them an offer they can't refuse to
48 Post contains images Asiaflyer : The old A.net myth against airlines buying A380s. SQ has proved that totally wrong, by flying A380 to ZRH, CDG and HKG.
49 jfk777 : SQ was always going to fly the A380 to Hong Kong for 2 reasons. First its 31/2 hours from SIN so it can be flown between flights to LHR or CDG. Secon
50 CXB77L : CX ordered the A350-900, which is not a direct competitor to the 777-300ER. You may be right, that CX might not order many more 77Ws but that will ha
51 jfk777 : The 777-300ER will be the backbone of Cathay's long haul fleet since they will have 36 of them. CX will probably have 15 748 or A380 too. The most int
52 kaitak : I have heard that two of the CX 772s are going to Biman, which has now returned its leased 772. (Of course, with BG, one has to treat rumours with so
53 wn700driver : Surely you jest! When I buy a car, I'm concerned about safety, reliability, efficiency, interior comfort/ergonomics, and how well it fits, overall, i
54 cx828 : Like Lufthansa, they use 748i to replace A346 and A380 to replace 744 and both have accounted for the growth, while CX only order 773ER and A359, both
55 cx828 : CX only have ordered the medium to large plane, total 36+30=66 but still no VLA. And they continuously transfer the A330 to KA so the quantity of A330
56 CX Flyboy : This is not happening. CX need more planes and the last thing they are going to do is get rid of the 772s. Biman will have to look elsewhere.
57 JerseyFlyer : I could see CX maybe using leased A388s for a few years then replacing with A389s when available. Recall that they used A342s for a while before orde
58 Westjet!Eh! : I know CX is only interested in frequency. But the problem is that CX hasn't got any more slot for LHR. It's likely that CX may a chance to buy some A
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