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Pan Am Pieces - Where To?  
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6491 posts, RR: 3
Posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2693 times:

As best as I can ascertain, during Pan Am's steady decline, this is where all of the pieces went to:

Heathrow routes: UA
Pacific Division: UA
Atlantic Division: DL
East Coast Shuttle: DL
Pan Am Express: TW -> Outsourced
Latin America (West Coast): BN -> EA -> AA
Brazil: PB -> liquidation
Colombia: AV
Central America: XU & GU -> TA
Cuba: CU
Middle East: BA -> ME
Mexico: AM; MX -> liquidation
China: CA
Germany: LH

What am I missing here?

[Edited 2011-02-07 12:09:06]


When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
13 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSkyguy From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 486 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2653 times:

Quoting N328KF (Thread starter):
What am I missing here?

India went to UA. At least on liquidation, not during the steady decline when PA held on to the route throughout.

UA flew UA001 and UA002 mimicking PA's RTW flights PA001 and PA002. Only difference was that the HKG-DEL and HKG-LAX sectors were not flown by the same aircraft, there was a change of equipment whereby 747 was used on the HKG-LAX and vice-versa sectors, whereas 767 was used on the HKG-DEL and onwards. PA used the same 747 which went on to all stops on the route.

[Edited 2011-02-07 12:06:42]


"Those who talk, do not know, and those who know, do not talk."
User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 6132 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2607 times:

Quoting N328KF (Thread starter):
Latin America (West Coast): BN -> EA -> AA
Brazil: PB -> liquidation
Colombia: AV
Central America: XU & GU -> TA
Cuba: CU
Middle East: BA -> ME
Mexico: AM; MX -> liquidation

Except for JFK-MEX (which went to DL) all of PAs Latin American ops went to United.

Quoting N328KF (Thread starter):
China: CA

Went to UA with the Pacific Routes.

Quoting Skyguy (Reply 1):
India went to UA.

India went to DL actually which operated PAs former FRA-BOM/DEL routes for a number of years. UA launched LHR-DEL which was not a route PA operated (at least at the time of the JFK/LHR sales.)



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlinebohica From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2749 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2581 times:

Quoting Skyguy (Reply 1):
UA flew UA001 and UA002 mimicking PA's RTW flights PA001 and PA002. Only difference was that the HKG-DEL and HKG-LAX sectors were not flown by the same aircraft, there was a change of equipment whereby 747 was used on the HKG-LAX and vice-versa sectors, whereas 767 was used on the HKG-DEL and onwards. PA used the same 747 which went on to all stops on the route.

There was a time UA operated the 744 all the way around on flights 1 and 2. However they could only carry a certain number of passengers on the HKG-DEL segments due to whatever treaties were in effect at the time.


User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6491 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2581 times:

Quoting United1 (Reply 2):
Except for JFK-MEX (which went to DL) all of PAs Latin American ops went to United.
Quoting United1 (Reply 2):
Went to UA with the Pacific Routes.

Sorry, there I was referring to PA's in-country ops, which were either local carriers PA owned and divested, or local ops that were used as the basis to form new carriers.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 6132 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2540 times:

Quoting N328KF (Reply 4):
Sorry, there I was referring to PA's in-country ops, which were either local carriers PA owned and divested, or local ops that were used as the basis to form new carriers.

Understood....I assumed you were referring to PAs operations from the start of the breakup in 86' onward.

I had forgotten how instrumental PA was in establishing quite a few carriers operations around the world. Didn't they help get a few in Africa off the ground as well?



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineSkyguy From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 486 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2363 times:

Quoting United1 (Reply 2):
Quoting Skyguy (Reply 1):
India went to UA.

India went to DL actually which operated PAs former FRA-BOM/DEL routes for a number of years. UA launched LHR-DEL which was not a route PA operated (at least at the time of the JFK/LHR sales.)

Actually, you're right. DL did take over PA's Inda route. UA just mimicked the PA flights that PA flew at one time. Sorry, my bad.

[Edited 2011-02-07 14:15:21]


"Those who talk, do not know, and those who know, do not talk."
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 26005 posts, RR: 22
Reply 7, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2360 times:

Quoting N328KF (Thread starter):
Cuba: CU

PA had no Cuba service since the trade embargo was implemented in the early 1960s.


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8503 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2185 times:
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Quoting N328KF (Thread starter):
Colombia: AV

Pan Am was a shareholder in AV until the late 1960's, when the political winds in Latin America was " Gringo get out" of the airline business. PAN AM also did fly on its own from Miami to Barranquilla until 1977, which was the route authority Eastern took over as its first South American desination. After Eastern got teh Latin bug and Braniff went bust EA took over the whole BN system.


User currently offlinezrs70 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 3222 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1948 times:

I think that life members of the Clipper Club were honored by the Crown Room Club.


14 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2013
User currently offlineJetJeanes From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1434 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1587 times:

United bought these pacific routes before Pan am went under


i can see for 80 miles
User currently offlineVC10er From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 2986 posts, RR: 13
Reply 11, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1521 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

What was PB to Brazil? And how many frequencies


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User currently offlinePacificClipper From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 312 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1446 times:

Quoting VC10er (Reply 11):
What was PB to Brazil?

From Wikipedia...

Panair do Brasil began operations on October 22, 1929, as NYRBA do Brasil S.A., a Brazilian subsidiary of NYRBA, Inc. (New York, Rio, and Buenos Aires Line), forerunner of Pan American.

Shortly after the end of World War II, Panair seized the opportunity to grow further. On 1946, the majority of its shares - 52% - was in the hands of Brazilian nationals and thus satisfied one of the preconditions to operate abroad. The last lot of shares in the hands of Pan Am was sold in 1961.

Panair do Brasil was forced to cease operations abruptly on February 10, 1965, when the Brazilian military government, which seized power the year before, suspended its operational certification and allotted its international route concessions to Varig and domestic to Cruzeiro do Sul. In fact, that very night, the Douglas DC-8-33 scheduled to operate flight PB22, departing at 10:30 PM from Rio de Janeiro-Galeão to Recife, Lisbon, Paris-Orly and Frankfurt was immediately replaced by a Varig Boeing 707. There were no flight cancellations. The operation also involved the transfer of 3 of its Caravelles and 3 of its Catalinas to Cruzeiro do Sul, and 2 of its DC-8-33 to Varig.



Fly Beautiful :: 747
User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1413 times:

Quoting N328KF (Thread starter):
Mexico: AM; MX -> liquidation

Actually it was MX. AM had no connection to Pan Am.



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