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LH To Cease Flying MIA-MUC.  
User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1012 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 5 months 6 days ago) and read 11559 times:

I just checked the LH schedule and noticed that LH is pulling out the MIA-muc flight this April. I'm guessing poor loads, expensive landing taxes and the oversaturization of the MIA-European market is responsible for this flights demise.

Correction, the last date of this flight is May 7.

[Edited 2011-02-07 16:55:54 by srbmod]

52 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8255 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (3 years 5 months 6 days ago) and read 11486 times:
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Quoting miaintl (Reply 1):
Correction, the last date of this flight is May 7.

Probably a seasonal flight to resume in November. For obvious reasons more Germans go to Miami in the cold months.


User currently offlineRAGAZZO777 From Uruguay, joined Jul 2010, 579 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (3 years 5 months 6 days ago) and read 11486 times:

Too bad! How long did the MUC-MIA-MUC route last ? IIRC, it was launched last year, right ?!


JESÚS, TE AMO !!
User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1012 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 5 months 6 days ago) and read 11468 times:

Its not coming back in the winter either. Its gone for good the flight was only launched last March and I was on the flight and it was packed to the gills. I wonder if the new KL and TP flights will end up failing as well?

[Edited 2011-02-07 17:06:00]

User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1012 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 5 months 6 days ago) and read 11313 times:

Apparently the flight might come back in October, from what I've heard.

User currently offlinetim171080 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 86 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 5 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 10988 times:

I am pretty sure they will upgrade FRA to A380 by summer.

User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1012 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 5 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 10978 times:

I dont know but i heard them pulling out had something to do with the departure taxes in Germany and the downturn in the cruise ship industry.

User currently offlinesmoot4208 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1286 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (3 years 5 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 10900 times:

I'm sure if AA had been in star alliance, the route would've worked. But with all this increased TATL capacity into MIA this year it's not surprising to see a cut on a route like this. I'm just surprised DUS will out last MUC.

User currently offlineluv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12090 posts, RR: 49
Reply 8, posted (3 years 5 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 10877 times:

I thought flying into Miami from Europe was a sure thing for any carrier, like printing money.


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1012 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (3 years 5 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 10857 times:

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 8):

Apparently only for some places in Europe. The Miami-DUS market is far larger than the Miami- Munich market. This is similar to when LH announced MUC-DEN but dropped out after only a few months, and DEN is a star hub mind you.

[Edited 2011-02-07 19:30:00]

User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3292 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (3 years 5 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 10674 times:

Quoting miaintl (Reply 4):
Apparently the flight might come back in October, from what I've heard.

So is this a seasonal reduction or not?


User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1012 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (3 years 5 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 10643 times:

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 10):

I dont know but it may be gone for good because i just contacted some LH personal and they just told me that. I still dont know why this flight was pulled after so short a time.


User currently offlineAndie007 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 860 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 5 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 9759 times:

On the other hand, DUS-MIA on LH metal will remain as seasonal service.

User currently offlinechootie From Germany, joined May 2007, 286 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 5 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 9709 times:

Hi!!

According to AMADEUS booking the flights are still bookable throughout the year... any reliable sources from LH??



chootie
User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8162 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (3 years 5 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 9698 times:

Quoting miaintl (Reply 9):
Apparently only for some places in Europe. The Miami-DUS market is far larger than the Miami- Munich market. This is similar to when LH announced MUC-DEN but dropped out after only a few months, and DEN is a star hub mind you.

You have to understand that the beach resorts of the Mediterranean and Adriatic are a relatively short drive from Munich so most people won't bother with the flight to Miami in the Summer? In addition, MUC has far more flights to other tourist destinations than DUS. Likewise for DEN. Munich is at the foot of the Alps and LH already serves seemingly every other *A hub in the US.


User currently offlinefrat From Germany, joined Sep 2003, 1102 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (3 years 5 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 9577 times:

Quoting chootie (Reply 13):
According to AMADEUS booking the flights are still bookable throughout the year... any reliable sources from LH??

It should be published tomorrow.


User currently offlineZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5566 posts, RR: 36
Reply 16, posted (3 years 5 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 9031 times:

Quoting airbazar (Reply 14):
Munich is at the foot of the Alps

Yes, but don't forget that also ZRH with its daily flight is rather close.


User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7087 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (3 years 5 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 8753 times:

Quoting tim171080 (Reply 5):
I am pretty sure they will upgrade FRA to A380 by summer.

This could have something to do with it, with an increased capacity.

Quoting miaintl (Reply 4):
Apparently the flight might come back in October,

Can we confirmation from LH soon about something about this. I do not trust LU.com booking for information like this.

Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 7):
I'm just surprised DUS will out last MUC.

DUS has always been a larger market from MIA with LTU/Air Berlin flying it for a long time. Air Berlin is also starting TXL-MIA. DUS of course is also a much larger metro area.



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1012 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 years 5 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 7978 times:

What i really want to know is why the flight is being axed, the loads were great when i flew it last June.

User currently offlineYULWinterSkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2176 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (3 years 5 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 7322 times:

Quoting miaintl (Thread starter):
expensive landing taxes

These will just be the same as what other airlines pay. You have to put US "expensive" taxes in perspective with European airport taxes (those in Germany are all but cheap), and, for intl airlines, "taxes" are necessary to be paid to be granted access to markets in certain highly corrupted countries such as some African oil powers.

Quoting miaintl (Reply 19):
What i really want to know is why the flight is being axed, the loads were great when i flew it last June.

Why don't you just ask LH? We've all flown full flights once in a while that ended up being axed at some point. Full with bottom-low fares = money-loser. Not too full but with good fares = money-maker.

Open skies + JVs across the pond have led to significant drops in fares, and it is my expectation that we'll see more and more routes being axed, but also more and more new routes being tried for a year or two until they either become successful or are axed again at the benefit of yet another new route.

Corporate contracts sometimes play an important role in guaranteeing a flight; maybe a contract between a MUC or MIA firm and LH has not been renewed and average fares + J seating demand will drop as a result. LH will obviously not disclose much of this, if that's the case.

Or LH just found a better use for the aircraft somewhere else where they think it could be more profitable.

Quoting miaintl (Reply 6):
I dont know but i heard them pulling out had something to do with the departure taxes in Germany

Well, it's not like Germany specifically taxes flights to MIA more than those to other destinations.

Quoting miaintl (Reply 6):
and the downturn in the cruise ship industry.

Now, that is more plausible...



When I doubt... go running!
User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1012 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (3 years 5 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 6482 times:

Well it was a short lived flight, lets just hope KL and TP dont end up the same way. Maybe this is testimony that the Miami-Europe market is not as big as many people make it out to be.



[Edited 2011-02-08 12:42:50]

User currently offlinefrat From Germany, joined Sep 2003, 1102 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (3 years 5 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 6004 times:

Quoting tim171080 (Reply 5):
I am pretty sure they will upgrade FRA to A380 by summer.

And I'm pretty sure they won't. At least not for the summer. JFK will get the A380 in a couple of weeks and SFO will get a daily A380 with the summer sched.

3 flighs in winter or 2 in the summer were too much.


User currently offlineluganopirate From Switzerland, joined Apr 2010, 54 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 5 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5542 times:
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LH only fly FRA - CPT in the European winter months and I believe also stop flying sometime in March, so it could be a seasonal flight.

User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1012 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (3 years 5 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5502 times:

Quoting luganopirate (Reply 24):

This route is not being replaced by some other route, so why its axed is still a mystery. They still fly to non-star airports like Boston out of MUC, so what is the size of the Boston Market compared to Miami? Interestingly this flight has been tried many times in the past 20 years and it always ended up in failure and were always short lived. I guess even with all the connections to Southern and Eastern Europe that MUC offers was not enough to save this flight.

[Edited 2011-02-08 14:06:46]

User currently offlineflyyul From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4969 posts, RR: 51
Reply 24, posted (3 years 5 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5395 times:

MIA-MUC is a small local market, its the LH MUC beyond network that makes that pushes the mass.

Look MIA has had amazing increases in capacity, it's not sustainable to believe that all this capacity would be filled at the yields required. KL/SS/IB BCN/AA 2x MAD/AZ to MXP - it's pretty incredible, unfortunately this flight looks like it was at the cost of massive increase in capacity.


25 miaintl : All the flights you mentioned offer nothing to what MUC offers, including AMS. The KL flight is poorely timed for connections and is offered only 4x
26 miaintl : Does anyone have anyone here have any info on OS and its N. American expansion palns and if it has something to do with this route being cut?
27 flyyul : There's too much market growth in capacity - LH would not withdraw MUCMIA if it wasn't; a.) the poorest performing Munich intercontinental route b.)
28 miaintl : How do you know its the poorest preforming intercontinental route, last summer the loads and yields were great?
29 flyyul : No they were not, the yields were quite low despite strong loads. Part of the reason was the late loading of the sked (only decided in late April 201
30 miaintl : Do you think TP and KL will have the same problem as LH MUC did in Miami? If the flight was a certain failure then why the LH even bother to go ahead
31 flyyul : I think LH miscalculated premium demand. LH used an A340 with 56 premium seats, with only a total capacity of 221. TP/KL aircraft configurations have
32 miaintl : LHR and FRA are strong premium markets out of MIA so it would be unfair to say that all European flights are low yield. Plus dont forget the Southern
33 flyyul : MIAINTL - read below Everywhere to LHR is high-yield. Miami is a very strong volume market, there;s a lot of traffic potential, especially on a leisu
34 miaintl : Whats your opinion on TP's potential sucess, we know Southern Europe is high yield to MIA because of historical and cultural ties.
35 flyyul : Southern Europe is low-yield high volume. If TAP has the appropriate cost structure then they will be fine.
36 miaintl : AZ's flights to MIA are always high yield, especially the MXP flights (when they had the hub there). PLus , what do you think about TK coming to MIA
37 miaintl : Its official, LH MIA-MUC has officially been removed from the LH system today.
38 smoot4208 : I'm surprised MAH hasn't commented on this thread yet
39 miaintl : He has been sending me messages instead assuring me that its only a seasonal cut. Will wait and see then.
40 flyyul : Its a year-round cut
41 smoot4208 : Seems like if it was only going to be a seasonal cut it would have stayed in the system. I bet they will reevaluate the MIA-MUC market this summer and
42 miaintl : So what makes DUS a bigger success out of MIA than MUC? Mark also mentions that the cut is due to the downturn in the cruiseship industry and about a
43 flyyul : LH uses a 247 seater A340 to DUS and a 221 seater to MUC. The extra 26 seats for MIA = more $$. LH 247 seaters all based in DUS
44 CoachClass : First, I think LH likes to go head to head with airberlin and in a comparison with their long haul products, I think LH easily wins. Second, the loca
45 miaintl : MIA-DUS has been flown on a 330 for almost a year now. I think if MIA-MUC would of have been flown on a 330 it might have been successful. Some say th
46 Post contains images Severnaya : Does someone know where this frame will be operated instead? What'll be LH l/h growth out of MUC this summer season? This user is banned I doubt if LH
47 flymia : DUS is purely just a larger market. Much bigger metro area and Germans love to visit and have second homes in South Florida. Air Berlin and LU fly MI
48 miaintl : Do you know how large the Miami-Amsterdam markets is in relation to Miami-Munich?
49 slz396 : When's the last flight? And what's this discontinuation going to mean for the loads up to that date?
50 Post contains links Burkhard : Cruise ship industry is exploding, growth 10% in Germany last year, same expected this year. I expect the normal seasonal reduction for summer and ca
51 Severnaya : May 7th departing MUC, also departing MIA on May 7th, arriving back at MUC on May 8th.
52 laca773 : What this comes down to, MIA is mainly a leisure market. Sure, LH does very well from FRA in regards to yields but from secondary destinations such a
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