cyxuk From Canada, joined Mar 2009, 109 posts, RR: 0 Posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 15908 times:
As asked in the question: the large companies that chose to portray their corporate logos in sometimes the oddest of places chose not to put it on their company corporate jets.
Would you agree with this statement? and if so what is the reason for this?
Each of these aircraft is nice, and represents their respective companies well, so why not take some of the money used to paint them in the "eurowhite" scheme, and give them their respective company logos?
jetblast From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 1201 posts, RR: 11 Reply 1, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 15900 times:
I agree with it completely. The people who fly in these aircraft usually want to be nondescript and private when they fly...plastering corporate logos all over the airplane looks unprofessional and would draw attention.
DashTrash From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1321 posts, RR: 4 Reply 2, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 15878 times:
BMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 14411 posts, RR: 26 Reply 3, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 15857 times:
I think it's a good idea. These people need to get where they are going safely, quickly, and in more than a few cases, secretly. You don't see company cars with the logo plastered all over them either.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
Quokka From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 4, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 15845 times:
Probably for the same reason that the chauffeur driven limo isn't plastered with logos - it simply looks crass and crass advertising is meant for the consumers, not the CEOs who already know who is footing the bill to fly.
PSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 6910 posts, RR: 29 Reply 5, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 15840 times:
One of the only industries that may have been more beat up more in the media in the past few years than the domestic auto industry may quite possibly be general aviation, specifically the business/corporate jet segment.
Despite the fact that business jets enhance productivity, can be more cost-effective than than flying commerically, and used for business purposes, they can be viewed as a perk and unnecessary.
Companies generally like to keep a low profile regarding their use of business jets. Some of it is for competitive reasons, some of it is for privacy. (e.g., you don't want everyone to know when executives from a company are in town looking for a location for a new plant/distribution facility, or who they might be meeting with).
KaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12043 posts, RR: 42 Reply 6, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 15853 times:
kanban From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2498 posts, RR: 21 Reply 7, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 15817 times:
they also want to be discreet when flying elected officials on lobbying junkets, however 80% if to preclude some dissatified employee shooting the boss.
BMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 14411 posts, RR: 26 Reply 8, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 15690 times:
Another reason is that fewer companies seem to be actually owning their planes, and often those that do have them managed by a third party. The rise of fractional ownership means that owning a plane doesn't make sense unless the company flies a lot, and NetJets, Marquis, etc. are going to keep their planes as generic as possible.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
blueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3160 posts, RR: 1 Reply 9, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 15494 times:
And pretty often it would be wasted money too. Many of the private plane owners are not companies that resonate to the public. What's the upside for Wing Financial or Level 3 to spend money branding their aircraft?
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 8): NetJets, Marquis, etc. are going to keep their planes as generic as possible.
Absolutely correct, but even some companies that do own their planes will charter them out when not in use. Usually, they go through brokers, so the customer doesn't know who owns the plane. It works both ways because Home Depot doesn't want to advertise that their plane is for rent (it sounds cheap) and Lowe's isn't going to use the same broker twice if they put them in a plane that said Home Depot in the tail!
rfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 6191 posts, RR: 25 Reply 10, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 15449 times:
The company I used to work for had three highly visible and frequently photographed corporate jets back in the 90s.
One issue they discovered was that their executives travel was tracked by the competition and some strange media reports occured. Such as after a trip to New York (HPN) - :XXX CEO Seeks Help from Wall Street Bankers" or "XXX President Visits Secret Test Market in YYY, New Product Fails Consumer Testing" and "XXX CFO Lobbies Governor for Labor Law Exemption"
There were also stories like "XXX CEO Takes Another Junket To Florida Coast" where we successfully tested a new product line. And "XXX Looks At Moving Financial Processing To Mexico" where we have a major joint venture franchisee.
The corporate logo paints disappeared about 10 years ago, and the company went to blocking public flight tracking in the mid-00s.
YYZRWY23 From Canada, joined Aug 2009, 561 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 15403 times:
Many times, in highly competitive industries, executives of Company A do not want Company B knowing what they are up to. If the aircraft is spotted flying into a key market (or future one), then the competition may catch wind and get in on it, ruining the advantage Company A had.
Another reason is security, as mentioned above. There are a lot of people still VERY disgruntled by what some of those hedge funds and corporate bankers did, and it can't be written off that they may do something to the aircraft (such as sabotage), or even trying to bring it down from the air.
And as in the post above me, can cause unnecessary press and annoyances. Keep the aircraft in a simple, elegant livery, and do your business.
YYZRWY23
If you don't stand behind our troops, feel free to stand in front of them.
apodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3652 posts, RR: 6 Reply 12, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 15357 times:
Quoting YYZRWY23 (Reply 11): Many times, in highly competitive industries, executives of Company A do not want Company B knowing what they are up to. If the aircraft is spotted flying into a key market (or future one), then the competition may catch wind and get in on it, ruining the advantage Company A had.
While I am not a big fan of trade secrets (A whole different debate) the other issue is if a certain companies plane is spotted in a certain location, and the implication is that there is something going on with either that company or a company they are doing business with, and there is stock owned in either company you can get an edge on this and change your position accordingly. It isn't really insider trading, but it is using info that isn't public knowledge and is generally frowned upon by the SEC, and no company wants to risk that.
That being said, sometimes corporate planes flying into a city is completely innocent and nothing noteworthy. Menard's maintains a fleet of both Jets, and Beech 1900s that they use to fly people from HQ in Eau Claire to various cities where their stores are actually located at. Nothing special here at all. I will say though, watching a Menards 1900 come in, drop the pax off, and depart in under a minute (I am not exaggerating either) is quite something to watch.
Cricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2943 posts, RR: 7 Reply 13, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 15331 times:
Some companies do, particularly in India do
India's largest Private company - Reliance Industries owner Mukesh Ambani's personal A319 has his company's logo
CO777DAL From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 480 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 15259 times:
Here is Dillard's Department Stores. They have an amazing fleet of planes for a company that is only in a few states and has seen sales decline almost every year from a high in 2000.
They have more, but these were in the database. One G5, one G450, and three Learjet 45. If they had Dillard's plastered across them, I'm sure they would be a lot of pissed off people and a lot of questions being asked. No name, and no one knows.
Nike has a swoosh (their logo) on their plane and the registration says N1KE.
sccutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 5103 posts, RR: 28 Reply 16, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 14936 times:
Also, many flight departments place their aircraft on charter certificates in order to defray some of the cost of ownership - during periods when the aircraft is not being used for company business, it can generate some revenue. In these circumstances, it is better not to have the aircraft branded.
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
rfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 6191 posts, RR: 25 Reply 17, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 14639 times:
Quoting Giancavia (Reply 15): Well you can sure tell which planes belong to pepsi :P
I've seen photos of N815PA called a British Airways and a Delta Airlines private jet.
N96FL and N97FL have very distinctive color schemes which look so much better in person at their hanger at ADS than the photos - but only insiders knew they belonged to Pepsi subsidary Frito-Lay after the Lays and Doritos logos have been removed from the tails. I haven't been over there in a couple years - don't know what they are flying now.
Once when riding jump seat on N45PH - I heard ATC refer to the aircraft as "5 Pizza Hut" (The aircraft is still registered as N45PH, but Pizza Hut sold it in 2004.)
SEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 6304 posts, RR: 39 Reply 19, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 14560 times:
Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 5): One of the only industries that may have been more beat up more in the media in the past few years than the domestic auto industry may quite possibly be general aviation, specifically the business/corporate jet segment.
Totally agree with your comments. On top of that, there is no upside and plenty of downside to advertising your name on private jets. While they can be very cost-effective to a company (but they also can be very expensive perks) it is very hard to justify this to the public (look at the tremendous black eye the auto executives got from using them) and it is much easier and safer to keep them as anonymous as possible. When I ran the local FBO I frequently had private jets stop in (a local ski area had a shindig once that attracted a whole fleet of them at once) NOT ONE had any identification of whose it was other than the N-number. At one time it might have been seen as a sign of a prosperous and successful company, but in today's climate it just too often is seen as excess.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
CitationJet From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2249 posts, RR: 3 Reply 20, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 14537 times:
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 3): You don't see company cars with the logo plastered all over them either.
Hertz and Avis don't put logos and advertise on their rental cars for the same reason. Security. Nothing would say "I am from out of town" more than an Avis sticker on your rental car door.
Companies like Walmart are not going to impress their customers by displaying the fact that their execs fly around in a Global Express.
txjim From United States of America, joined May 2008, 201 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 14490 times:
Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 5): Despite the fact that business jets enhance productivity, can be more cost-effective than than flying commerically, and used for business purposes, they can be viewed as a perk and unnecessary
People don't hear of the many stories where senior staff worked all night on their way to XXX to make a presentation, seal a deal or calm down an angry customer. What gets around are the rare occurrences where VP XXX took seats away from lower level employees to head toward a golf weekend or someone else who uses the company plane to shuttle daughter and friends to a big city for a birthday shopping spree (both of which happened in my company).
I totally agree that the corporate jet can be a productivity enhancement. It's the stories of excess that makes the public rounds.
Quoting CitationJet (Reply 20): Nothing would say "I am from out of town" more than an Avis sticker on your rental car door.
mogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 22, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 14469 times:
also it's a bit political
politicians love to pick on the easy targets - big oil, big pharma, banks.... you name it, and accusing a company of wasteful spending by using a corporate jet instead of flying commercial is definitely one of the easiest ways for populist politicians to round up mindless sheep to rally for him/her. (playing the victim card is another popular strategy)
i'm not pointing fingers towards any particular party / organization, but one of the saddest things of humanity is those parroting talking points from the national party without applying independent critical thought (which equally applies across the spectrum, irrespective of ideology)
SEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 6304 posts, RR: 39 Reply 23, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 14468 times:
Quoting CitationJet (Reply 20): Hertz and Avis don't put logos and advertise on their rental cars for the same reason. Security. Nothing would say "I am from out of town" more than an Avis sticker on your rental car door.
In fact there was a rash of carjackings in Florida a number of years ago that specifically targeted rental cars (this is what led the rental companies to remove all identification from their cars). While this received a great deal of publicity at the time, the reason (which numerous law enforcement offices got from arrested suspects) did not. It was very simple; rental cars were usually driven by people who had just gotten off of airliners, and the crooks were quite confident that they wouldn't be armed. Likewise corporate jets do not want to advertise their executives' presence in many places; it could easily make them a target for kidnapping.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
ckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 4684 posts, RR: 1 Reply 24, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 14414 times:
Some companies even go to the trouble of blocking their aircraft from tracking sites. My wife worked for a company that did a lot of flying employees on company jets. Management thought it was cost-effective, although some institutional shareholders disagreed.
Even though I had the N-number of the jet (a Falcon 20), I couldn't track the jet's whereabouts. The company claims it was for security, although a hedge fund involved in a hostile takeover claims that management blocked tracking, so the hedge fund couldn't track senior management flying to meet other large shareholders prior to the shareholders' meeting.
So, the last thing a company needs is a jet with the company name or logo on it.
Although you might be able to figure out the jet's owner based on the tail number. Just as airlines often have N-numbers with company abbreviations (American-AA, United-UA, Southwest-SW or WN), a company might put its ticker symbol into the N-number.
25 SEPilot: The owner of record is public information; although I suspect that a large number of them are hidden by shell corporations. I doubt that very many of
27 LondonCity: Cultural considerations play a role in certain countries. For example, in N America I am sure that corporate jets are looked upon as an effective busi
28 DLdiamondboy: Most CEO's and executives are seen as jet setting, cigar smoking corporate fat cats and do not want that image being enforced by their company logos p
29 YULWinterSkies: Of course you can, this is public. However, one needs to 1. get close enough from the aircraft and read the number (somewhat easy in small regional a
31 CitationJet: That is the reason why most private jets do not display the American flag. They don't won't that visibility for foreign trips. Most customers purchas
32 CitationJet: I meant to say: They don't want that visibility for foreign trips.
33 cschleic: Or when all those corporate jets show up for a golf tournament, or at some sunny locale with the big house for just the executives, especially if it'
34 CitationJet: There must have been over 50 business jets that came into Love Field for the Super Bowl, according to Flightaware. There were a string of jets leavin
35 Acey559: Deere & Company's corporate aircraft are pretty discreet as well, except for the green and yellow paint job. They also painted the wheel rims yell
36 Giancavia: Lol BA really? Luxair I could understand.. its nearly identical except the angle.
37 luv2fly: 29 states to be exact, that is over half. What do you consider a lot?
38 PagoFlyer: Many many years ago Southern Company/Georgia Power removed the PC (power company) from the tails of their planes.
39 CitationJet: Before and after the Doritos logo:
40 N6238P: I work at an FBO and I've noticed although blocked from any tracking software and void of any logo's, the tail number will more than likely reflect in
41 UAEflyer: He owns the company and the logo is so clear in all his personal belonging.
42 CitationJet: Example of personal initials in the tail number and a small logo (umbrella) by the forward door is Arnold Palmer's Citation X: View Large View Medium
43 F9Animal: BMW has a GV. The tail number is N13MW. IIRC, that is what it is.
44 Viscount724: But in most cases when you look up the owner in the FAA database you don't see the actual owner, only a bank acting as trustee. law office, or shell
45 CO777DAL: Dillard's has one G5, one G450 and 3 Learjet 45. 5 Aircraft. This is a company with only 309 stores which almost all is in the Southern US. Texas and
46 CitationJet: The 1 and 3 would look like a B, depending on the slant, spacing and font used. Therefore the registration would look like NBMW (N 13 M W). Clever.
47 OzarkD9S: In the case of my company, and this was before my time, the (regional/family owned) company was in contract negotiations. The company had a private ai
48 luv2fly: They stretch from coast to coast and Texas and Florida cover a whole lot of area.
49 VC10er: I actually designed the Gulfstream for KFC. When traveling to certain countries kidnapping was of primary concern. On a funny note the ex CEO insisted
50 learjet1969: Plain and simple its called a "Private Jet" for a reason!
51 Antoniemey: And don't forget the high likelihood of getting out of state plates on your rental car...
53 JETSTAR: A lot of companies use some sort of discrete way of identifying their airplanes, other’s don’t care and paint their logo so it can be seen very ea
54 okie: My first thought was the movie "Wall Street" Charlie Sheen follows the exec to the airport and asked where the private jet was going and reports back
55 rfields5421: N45PH was repainted in a white scheme seen in later photos in 2002. I've been able to ride the jump seat on that aircraft over 15 times. Very nice ti
56 soon7x7: His "big ego" will soon be flying in a bigger plane...a 757-200 w/ winglets. Many tip-offs to who owns high end corporate jets is the last two charac
57 DashTrash: Fractional aviation has fallen on it's ass. All of them except Avantair have pilots on the street, combined to the tune of around 800. Netjets accoun
60 KELPkid: In the 1990's, when I was a lineboy, they used to have a King Air C90, N89BD. They were nice folks, too. You don't want to know how many times that p
61 DocLightning: Not only that, but "Hey, the CEO of Wal-Mart is in this vehicle! You're a nutcase who thinks all corporations are evil, ESPECIALLY Wal-Mart! Take pot
62 Yflyer: Intel has a small fleet of ERJ-135s that they use as corporate shuttles, and they use some interesting tail numbers. One of them is N486TM. The meani
64 26point2: Cool stuff. Thanks. I didn't know that.
65 type-rated: Even though Wal-mart doesn't have their logo on their aircraft, when you see one of their pilots at the FBO, you'll know. The Wal-mart pilots wear a d
67 VC10er: I wont mention names, but when I designed the Giant Colonal Sanders face identity for the chain (buckets, signage, the works) it was owned by Pepsi.
68 rfields5421: He was President of PH when I started working at the company HQ. He's been doing a lot of good work in the city of Dallas on special projects for the
Sponsor Message: 
From Canada, joined Mar 2009, 109 posts, 
From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 1201 posts, 
From , joined Dec 1969, posts, 
From India, joined Aug 2005, 2943 posts, 
From Vatican City, joined Feb 2010, 1273 posts, 
From Cayman Islands, joined Apr 2008, 127 posts, 
Printer friendly format 
