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Biman Returns Leased B777  
User currently offlinepsimpson From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 317 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 17686 times:

Bangladesh Biman has returned leased B777-200ER CS-TFM to Euro Atlantic after lease.
As a result the airline is not offering a nonstop DAC-LHR-DAC but will operate the LHR route via DXB with A310-300s as a temporary measure.
Biman is in negotiating with a Chinese based leasing company in acquiring 2 B777-200s from Cathy Pacific on a 3 year lease with delivery planned April 2011 to restore the nonstop DAC-LHR-DAC service. Proposed routes for the B777-200s operations are below.

DAC-MAN-NYC-MAN-DAC
DAC-LHR-DAC
DAC-JED-DAC
DAC-CGP-JED-CGP-DAC
DAC-RUH-DAC
DAC-DXB-DAC
DAC-AUH-DAC
DAC-KUL-DAC
DAC-FCO-DAC

39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2966 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 17618 times:

Quoting psimpson (Thread starter):
DAC-MAN-NYC-MAN-DAC
DAC-LHR-DAC
DAC-JED-DAC
DAC-CGP-JED-CGP-DAC
DAC-RUH-DAC
DAC-DXB-DAC
DAC-AUH-DAC
DAC-KUL-DAC
DAC-FCO-DAC

That is a lot of routes for just two planes to run even if they operate flights 2 days per week on some sectors



A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
User currently offlineThe777Man From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 6492 posts, RR: 55
Reply 2, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 17590 times:

It was posted a few months ago that Biman will have their first two direct ordered 77Ws from Boieng soon, probably in the next 6-9 months.

I wonder who EuroAtlantic will lease the 777 to ?

The777Man



Need a Boeing 777 Firing Order....Further to fly....CI, MU, LX and LH 777s
User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10638 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 17302 times:

I guess Euro Atlantic will be quite pissed that they get those planes back after just a few months. That Biman is taking two of those aging CX 772"A"s is a sign that the lease rates of the Euro A.-777s are above market level, or, that the lease rates of older 777s are on the way down. CX were trying to get rid of these planes already two years ago, finally someone is interested. But are those 77As able to fly DAC-UK nonstop?

User currently offlineKFlyer From Sri Lanka, joined Mar 2007, 1226 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 17059 times:

Quoting na (Reply 3):
But are those 77As able to fly DAC-UK nonstop?

I doubt a 772A can make it without a considerable penalty



The opinions above are solely my own and do not express those of my employers or clients.
User currently offlineCarmelo From Hungary, joined Sep 2005, 123 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 16582 times:

When will GMG get their B772s and start flights to Europe?


Carmelo
User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9712 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 15222 times:

Quoting The777Man (Reply 2):
It was posted a few months ago that Biman will have their first two direct ordered 77Ws from Boieng soon, probably in the next 6-9 months.

It wouldn't surprise me that this 77W deal eventually didn't go through either. Why would Biman lease secondhand 777's for 3 years while receiving brandnew 77W's too...?

A388


User currently offlinecloud4000 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 641 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 14926 times:

Quoting A388 (Reply 6):

It wouldn't surprise me that this 77W deal eventually didn't go through either. Why would Biman lease secondhand 777's for 3 years while receiving brandnew 77W's too...?

This is Biman Bangladesh we are talking about here. What they do or don't do is always a head scratcher.

They've returned the 747 and now the 777, leaving them with 3 a313s, 4 D10s and 2 738s for their route network.

They will be receiving 2 77As from CX and 2 77Ws new. Still looks like they are cutting capacity instead of increasing.

What's the future of the D10s? Are they out the door? I can see the 777s replacing them one for one. The 77As plying routes to the Middle East and the 77Ws to Europe and the US.



Boston, USA
User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8195 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 14042 times:

Quoting na (Reply 3):
I guess Euro Atlantic will be quite pissed that they get those planes back after just a few months.

First off it's 1 airplane. It is being returned at the end of the lease period. I'm going to guess this did not come as total surprise to Euro Atlantic and I'm sure they have plans for it.


User currently offlineASA From Bangladesh, joined Dec 2010, 721 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 13427 times:

Quoting cloud4000 (Reply 7):
This is Biman Bangladesh we are talking about here. What they do or don't do is always a head scratcher.

LOL - you know this airline well ... well, as well as it can be known.

Quoting psimpson (Thread starter):
DAC-MAN-NYC-MAN-DAC
DAC-LHR-DAC
DAC-JED-DAC
DAC-CGP-JED-CGP-DAC
DAC-RUH-DAC
DAC-DXB-DAC
DAC-AUH-DAC
DAC-KUL-DAC
DAC-FCO-DAC

Biman is notorious for making these 1 or 2 weekly frequencies to distant places with poor coordination or planning. Makes no business sense ... but as the other poster mentions, it's Biman. They were never known for their business sense  


User currently offlinefrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3734 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 13275 times:

Those 77As would be a good fit to replace the DC-10s, though with a slightly shorter range. They would be payload limited if they wanted to reach LHR direct from DAC. On the plus side, they would be dirt cheap to acquire.


Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlineAA777223 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1232 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 13059 times:

Quoting francoflier (Reply 10):
On the plus side, they would be dirt cheap to acquire.

And a hell of a lot nicer inside. I've heard the interiors of those DC-10s are literally falling apart.



Sic 'em bears
User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11611 posts, RR: 60
Reply 12, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 11634 times:

Quoting ASA (Reply 9):
it's Biman. They were never known for their business sense

You're not wrong there. I tried booking a ticket on them once, at the official Biman ticket office in London. However, I was told that Biman's own ticket office wasn't authorised to sell tickets on Biman, and that I would have to phone some go between instead.

The fail is outstanding   


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineATLFlyer323 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 614 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 10689 times:

Quoting KFlyer (Reply 4):
I doubt a 772A can make it without a considerable penalty

How were their loads from LHR to begin with? If their plane never left over a certain % full, than I doubt they will care about the penalty.  

-Brandon



Everyday, the fluffy temptation of wheat!
User currently offlineammunition From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2002, 1065 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 10084 times:

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 12):
You're not wrong there. I tried booking a ticket on them once, at the official Biman ticket office in London. However, I was told that Biman's own ticket office wasn't authorised to sell tickets on Biman, and that I would have to phone some go between instead.

I have experienced that before, although some airlines advise that consolidated fares available through travel agents will be cheaper than what they can offer. Not great, considering the aim for any business is to maximise revenue and if a potential customer is enquiring about a flight, you tell them what it is according to the set fare!!! and not redirect them which would result in a lower yield and a potential fee payable to travel agent. The mind does boggle!

The other airline, Uzbekistan Airways advised that cheaper deals could be found through independent travel agents around the city but I think that was after the initial quote which was fair game I guess.



Saint Augustine- 'The world is a book and those who do not travel, read only 1 page'
User currently offlinecloud4000 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 641 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 10052 times:

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 12):
You're not wrong there. I tried booking a ticket on them once, at the official Biman ticket office in London. However, I was told that Biman's own ticket office wasn't authorised to sell tickets on Biman, and that I would have to phone some go between instead.

The fail is outstanding

Why would anyone fly to DAC on BG? Not even Bangladeshi choose to fly on BG. They prefer to fly the Middle East airlines instead. Of course, they pine for the return of BA LHR-DAC non-stop, but the yield are just not there.

Quoting ATLFlyer323 (Reply 13):

How were their loads from LHR to begin with? If their plane never left over a certain % full, than I doubt they will care about the penalty.

See above. It's not like they had competition on the route. BG is the only one flying LHR-DAC non-stop after BA left the market, so I presume the loads were decent but the yields terrible. This all assumes the flights are on time and don't go technical. I believe BAA threatened to cancel BG LHR slots because they were consistently arriving and leaving late.

Personally, I wouldn't fly BG if I got tickets for free.



Boston, USA
User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11611 posts, RR: 60
Reply 16, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 10001 times:

Quoting cloud4000 (Reply 15):
Why would anyone fly to DAC on BG? Not even Bangladeshi choose to fly on BG. They prefer to fly the Middle East airlines instead. Of course, they pine for the return of BA LHR-DAC non-stop, but the yield are just not there.

Simple, LHR used to be a DC-10 route, and they operate several short internal flights with the DC-10 which I wanted to fly. Plus Biman is much cheaper than the Gulf carriers.


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12128 posts, RR: 52
Reply 17, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 9805 times:

Quoting KFlyer (Reply 4):
Quoting na (Reply 3):
But are those 77As able to fly DAC-UK nonstop?

I doubt a 772A can make it without a considerable penalty

DAC-LHR is only 4335 nm.

DAC-LHR&RANGE=&PATH-COLOR=&PATH-UNITS=nm&PATH-MINIMUM=&SPEED-GROUND=450&SPEED-UNITS=kts&RANGE-STYLE=best&RANGE-COLOR=&MAP-STYLE=&ETOPS=180" target="_blank">http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=D...&RANGE-COLOR=&MAP-STYLE=&ETOPS=180

The B-77A has a max range of 5240 nm and a MTOW of 545,000 lbs.

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/777family/pf/pf_200product.html

The B-777-200 should be able to fly this mission without many restrictions. What kind of load factors does BG have on this route? What cargo do they carry on this route, if any? If they don't want restrictions, they could fly the B-777-200s DAC-DXB-LHR, just like their A-310-300s do, but with more seats and more cargo.

The B-777-300ER can do this route easily, but isn't that a little over capacity? Can the regularly fill a B-77W with pax and cargo?


User currently offlineASA From Bangladesh, joined Dec 2010, 721 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 9454 times:

Regarding the London route, I think the non-stop LHR-DAC would do quite well. If the planes are moderately newer (compared to the prehistoric DC-10-30s ) if there are regular flights and if the flights are on time, this route can do up to 7x a week I think. 772s are enough, 77Ws even better but timing and timely performance is the the main problem. With EK, OR, and EY offering daily to double daily operations out of Dhaka ... Biman has to provide regular freqs and timely performance. There is a lot of traffic on this route and Bangladeshis will be happy to take Biman if the minimum demand and expectations are fulfilled.

I just flew in one of Biman's A310-300 on the DAC-SIN route ... will go back in 2 days (SIN-DAC). The planes are OLD ... really OLD. I think, given their age, the interiors are not shabby (they were better than I had expected). But you can tell that it needs major improvement - from the seats, to the AC, to the trays, to the galleys. But in today's world, especially with the praid airlines growth from Middle East - these planes simply wouldn't do the job.

But, to be fair, the flights were SURPRISINGLY on time! 


User currently offlineCXB77L From Australia, joined Feb 2009, 2596 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 8404 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CHAT OPERATOR

Does anyone know which two of CX's 772s will be going to them?


Boeing 777 fanboy
User currently offlinemoek2000 From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 128 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 7960 times:

Quoting ASA (Reply 18):
I just flew in one of Biman's A310-300

I did too! Went to flew DAC-KTM-DAC on BG A310 in Jan...Got upgraded to F on my way to KTM for free (without even asking!) and my flight arrived in KTM about 20 minutes early! Plus the food was amazing for about a 1 hour flight!


User currently offlineAAIL86 From Finland, joined Feb 2011, 408 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 7535 times:

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 12):
You're not wrong there. I tried booking a ticket on them once, at the official Biman ticket office in London. However, I was told that Biman's own ticket office wasn't authorised to sell tickets on Biman, and that I would have to phone some go between instead.

now that is utterly amazing....



Next
User currently offlinePellegrine From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2349 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 7381 times:

Quoting KFlyer (Reply 4):
I doubt a 772A can make it without a considerable penalty

Umm. 777-200s should be able to fly this route no problems unless they're one of the low TOW versions.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 17):
DAC-LHR is only 4335 nm.

DAC-LHR&RANGE=&PATH-COLOR=&PATH-UNITS=nm&PATH-MINIMUM=&SPEED-GROUND=450&SPEED-UNITS=kts&RANGE-STYLE=best&RANGE-COLOR=&MAP-STYLE=&ETOPS=180" target="_blank">http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=D...&RANGE-COLOR=&MAP-STYLE=&ETOPS=180

The B-77A has a max range of 5240 nm and a MTOW of 545,000 lbs.

Word. Following the high altitude airways it's a little longer, but still... Unless they're one of the 515klb MTOW versions, it should be fine.



oh boy!!!
User currently offlinepsimpson From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 317 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 6633 times:

This Biman B777 business is rather complicated. From what i gather the deal with EuroAtlantic was for the B777-200ER CS-TFM to be leased to Biman under a 12 months ACMI - Aircraft, Crew, Maintenance & Insurance which was then to be converted automatically to a 24 months dry lease. During the initial 12 months ACMI, Biman had the option to train its own captains and cabin crew for B777 operations but this was not taken up.The originally contract with EuroAtlantic was for Biman to lease a second B777-200ER under the same terms but this was cancelled probably due to Biman not reinstating the JFK service.
Biman Bangladesh Airlines has signed a LOI with pacific aviation and lease managment for 2 Boeing 777-200 A-Market for 36 months lease. First 12 month ACMI then 24 month dry lease, with delivery planned April 2011. These 2 B777-200s will be coming from the Cathy Pacific fleet.
Biman are also looking for 2 B777-200ER for 36 months lease,and if unable to find suitable 777-200ER it will consider a offer already on the table for 2 Airbus long range aircraft for LHR and JFK flights.
Biman will also receive 2 brand new B777-300ER during October 2011 MSN40122 S2-AFO & MSN40123 S2-AFP.
By the end of 2011 Biman are planning to operate 6 Boeing 777s
2 777-200, 2 777-200ER and 2 777-300ER


User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8195 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 6590 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 17):
The B-777-200 should be able to fly this mission without many restrictions. What kind of load factors does BG have on this route?

I flew this route more than a few times on their DC-10's and the term "everything but the kitchen sink" never felt so right. Than and I don't think there was ever a time when passengers were not left behind.

Quoting psimpson (Reply 23):
The originally contract with EuroAtlantic was for Biman to lease a second B777-200ER under the same terms but this was cancelled probably due to Biman not reinstating the JFK service.

Strange because Euro Atlantic only has 1 772ER so how could they have signed a contract to lease a second one?


25 cloud4000 : ...and a broken clock is right twice a day. Unfortunately, for BG it's inconsistency that's the problem; and it's consistently inconsistent. .
26 Aesma : That, and I wouldn't mind trying the baby A300 either !
27 klwright69 : Last summer I was in LHR. The only cancelled flight on the board was Bimans LHR-DXB-DAC. A neighbor (a Bangledeshi with limited English) postponed hi
28 Post contains links mymorningsong : Didn't see this posted and found this online... http://biman-airlines.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/senior-Loan.pdf
29 oa260 : +1 I was directed to a company called ''Jumbo Travel'' . They used to offer cheap consol fares to DXB. Never got round to it. The BG DC-10 was always
30 CX Flyboy : Can I ask where you got this info from? I can see that Biman has signed an agreement for two 777s but how do you know they are from CX? I have not he
31 Post contains links psimpson : The below link was where i got the info from. http://theindependentbd.com/business...n-flight-to-london-from-today.html I have since heard that the L
32 CX Flyboy : Thanks for the info. Apparently 2-3 years ago an agreement was signed for the lease of 772s from CX but as soon as they asked for money up front, the
33 cloud4000 : Perhaps the kickbacks weren't lucrative enough. BG is known for overpaying on leases for aircraft they don't need. For example, a few years back, the
34 psimpson : Latest info is that Biman recent tender for the lease of 2 B777-200ER received offer from 10 bidders. Ironically the lowest bidder was Lisbon based Eu
35 kaitak : So, is this one of the current MS 772s?
36 Post contains images ASA : I really hope that the D10s are aggressively retired. They are old, loud, dirty, and costly. Like other spotters, I shall be sad to see them go, but
37 CX Flyboy : There is also a tender out at the moment for the financing of the 777-300ERs.
38 LJ : It's not their age. The DC10s also went regulary tech when they flew to AMS (and this is years ago when the DC10s were young). Somehow they'll probab
39 Post contains links thediplomat : Ah yes, the elephant in the room: http://theindependentbd.com/paper-ed...n-officials-face-fraud-charge.html Ten former Biman officials face fraud cha
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