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TK Eyes New Services to IAH, MIA, DTW and BOS  
User currently offlinethomasphoto60 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3923 posts, RR: 23
Posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 11830 times:

Saw this at Houston Spotters....

http://www.tourismandaviation.com/ne..._Houston_Miami_Boston_and_Detroit_

Thomas

[Edited 2011-02-09 15:01:07]

[Edited 2011-02-09 15:01:42]


"Show me the Braniffs"
86 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineflyingalex From Germany, joined Jul 2010, 1016 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 11768 times:

Detroit makes sense for the large Middle Eastern populations living there (Jordanians, Palestinians, Lebanese, some others). I guess Houston makes sense to tap into oil traffic heading towards the Gulf and for the Pakistani expatriate community there.

So what about BOS and MIA, what are they about?



Public service announcement: "It's" = "it is". To indicate posession, write "its." Looks wrong, but it's correct grammar
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24870 posts, RR: 46
Reply 2, posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 11766 times:

If you know anything about THY, Dr. Kotil and the way the airline works this is not an announcement.

The carrier regularly throws out names of destinations they have an eye on, but does not mean service has or will commence. (for example Australia which they have mentioned for years, or even other countries where they have received new bilateral rights, but no service yet.)

So until you see an actual press release, and loaded in GDS don't get too excited.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinethomasphoto60 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3923 posts, RR: 23
Reply 3, posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 11740 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2):

The carrier regularly throws out names of destinations they have an eye on, but does not mean service has or will commence. (for example Australia which they have mentioned for years, or even other countries where they have received new bilateral rights, but no service yet.)

So until you see an actual press release, and loaded in GDS don't get too excited.

Agreed, I'll believe when I see it.

Thomas



"Show me the Braniffs"
User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1020 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 11714 times:

Quoting flyingalex (Reply 1):

MIA is rumoured to be announced by the end of the year. The flight was somehow finalized at routes in Vancuever last October.


User currently offlineacidradio From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 1874 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 11650 times:
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Quoting thomasphoto60 (Reply 3):
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2):

The carrier regularly throws out names of destinations they have an eye on, but does not mean service has or will commence. (for example Australia which they have mentioned for years, or even other countries where they have received new bilateral rights, but no service yet.)

So until you see an actual press release, and loaded in GDS don't get too excited.

Agreed, I'll believe when I see it.

Thomas

Reflecting that information I changed the thread title to "TK eyes new svc to IAH, MIA, DTW and BOS". Thanks!



Ich haben zwei Platzspielen und ein Microphone
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17355 posts, RR: 46
Reply 6, posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 11596 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2):
So until you see an actual press release, and loaded in GDS don't get too excited.

I'm excited about the flight to ATL they're going to start last November 



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineaznmadsci From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 3659 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 11536 times:

While not confirmation and the mere desire for IAH to be on a "possible destination" list, I wonder if TK had a discussion with PK for TK to start IAH-IST and then funnel Pakistan-bound passengers onto PK flights in IST.


The journey of life is not based on the accomplishments, but the experience.
User currently offlineBOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1989 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 11489 times:

I've been told that BOS is the fifth largest US market from IST, but I wonder why that would be. But it would be cool to see if it did happen.


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User currently offlinejetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 3252 posts, RR: 35
Reply 9, posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 11451 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 6):
I'm excited about the flight to ATL they're going to start last November

I almost pissed myself Mav!  

Yeah, what happened to that one?

For the record, I think DTW is a much better option for TK. The Arab/Middle Eastern population in Metro Detroit is huge, but very diverse. IST is ideally located to serve the entire region. SkyTeam will still fight hard, but TK is much better off taking on DTW than it is ATL.


User currently offlinestylo777 From Germany, joined Feb 2006, 2952 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 11378 times:

Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 8):

I've been told that BOS is the fifth largest US market from IST, but I wonder why that would be. But it would be cool to see if it did happen.

I've heard somewhere that Boston comes right after NYC, L.A. and Chicago in terms of Turkish population in the US. Also there is a significant growth in educational travelling; Boston and also MA universities are becoming more and more popular among Turkish students.
Compared with Detroit the demographics in Boston don't really fit for connection traffic beyond Istanbul. There are more Western-European communities in Boston whereas in Detroit more Middleeastern people are living.


User currently offlineChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4085 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 11115 times:

It would be hard for me to stifle a chuckle if Boston got nonstop service to Istanbul before it got anything to Asia.

User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7124 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 11039 times:

Quoting flyingalex (Reply 1):
So what about BOS and MIA, what are they about?

Do not know much about BOS but TK flew MIA-IST 3 weekly for a bit in the 90s and early 2000's. Miami has a decent sized Turkish population and now with TK trying to start making IST a true world hub there are plenty of places to connect.



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4393 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 10946 times:

Few more excerpts from that speech;
-"TK wants to be a 5star airline in 2011, TK is 4.5 stars as of now" he says.
-"At least 25 Atlantic crossing flights a day is the goal to be recognized as LH or BA or AF"

"Houston we have a problem", I would say.
-TK to be a 5 star airline... I always say it, I would be happy if it was the best 3 star airline in the world, period. It is OK to put high goals, I admire them for that, but let's do one thing at a time.
-With IST busting at seams, SAW growing like crazy, talks about a 3rd airport for Istanbul but nothing decided... is a huge problem. TK is receiving another 6 333s, 5 77Ws, 6 319s, 14 321s, 2 332s, 10 738s and 10 739s in the next two years bringing the fleet total to around 200. IST capacity will make this expansion plans very difficult.
-On top, TK will have to acquire more LH capacity to start these routes to the US, including ATL!!! More 332s??
-25 daily Atlantic crossings= 2xJFK, ORD, maybe eventually YYZ. That is only 8 a day. Even if 4 x weekly IAD, LAX, GRU, IAH, MIA, DTW, BOS were to be all daily, don't add up to be 25. That is a lot of flights. To make it 25 TK might need ATL, YUL, YVR, EZE, MEX and maybe LIM.
-TK has 11% foreign flight crews. Eventually there will be need for all types of people, from FAs to mechanics...

On the other hand, TK carried around 30mil pax last year, a third of them transfer pax. Also, TK now flies to over 170 destinations, will be over 185 at the end of 2011. SO, DO NOT try to limit the TK pax as mainly Middle Eastern people trying to go the "OLD COUNTRY".
And one last thing in TKs favor. 50% of income coming from domestic operations where TK is the top dog and will be for the foreseeable future.
It has been a wild ride and more to come. Let's wait and see.


User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4393 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 10889 times:

Quoting flymia (Reply 12):
Do not know much about BOS but TK flew MIA-IST 3 weekly for a bit in the 90s and early 2000's. Miami has a decent sized Turkish population and now with TK trying to start making IST a true world hub there are plenty of places to connect.

That is the point.
It is still hard for people to recognize what is TK doing in BOS or MIA? How many Turks living in BOS or MIA? Those days are over. TK wants to carry Finns to Kenya and Brasilians to Tbilisi, Spaniards to Almaty...and already doing it.
Last month the CEO said TKs African destinations will go from 17 to 35 in two years. It is hard to believe that but it is still hard to believe TK flies to 17 destinations in Africa today.


User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1020 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 10762 times:

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 11):

Same can be said about Miami, especially if TK beats EK coming here.


User currently offlinebehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4755 posts, RR: 43
Reply 16, posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 10285 times:

MIA has HUGE traffic bound to Africa and there is decent volume to Middle East, BOM, DEL, Levant and Southern Europe that TK can take advantage of with a 4 weekly A 332 nonstop service.

IAH can also survive on a 4 weekly basis initially with an A 343 as with CO's hub there, good amount of onward interline opportunity exists. Plus from IAH, decent amount of high yielding oil traffic bound to Central Asia, Middle East and Africa and of course the massive VFR traffic to KHI, BOM, DAC and DEL. If J class loads pick up here, I would expect the B 77W to be put on this sector at the earliest.

DTW for TK is purely low yielding VFR traffic bound to BEY/IKA/AMM/CAI/DAM. The volume to/from DTW does not justify TK operating even 3 weekly A 332s into this market.


User currently offlineNorthstar80 From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 214 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 10127 times:

Quoting TK787 (Reply 13):
TK is receiving another 6 333s, 5 77Ws, 6 319s, 14 321s, 2 332s, 10 738s and 10 739s in the next two years

I did not know they have 332s on order, do they?



You have to have your heart in the business and the business in your heart. -Thomas J Watson
User currently offlineTurkish350XWB From Switzerland, joined Jan 2009, 476 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks ago) and read 9965 times:

Quoting Northstar80 (Reply 17):

One passenger aircraft A332 and one freighter A332F, both with RR engines


User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8218 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 9190 times:

Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 8):
I've been told that BOS is the fifth largest US market from IST, but I wonder why that would be. But it would be cool to see if it did happen.

Do you live in Boston propper? You would know if you did  
Other than the turkish population there's also a sizable amount of New England-ME, New England-S.Asia, and New England-Eastern Europe traffic. TK would be another carrier competing for these passengers with the likes of LH/AF/BA/DL.


User currently offlinepilotaydin From Turkey, joined Sep 2004, 2539 posts, RR: 51
Reply 20, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 9135 times:

The reason why ATL did not happen until now is because we do not have the required number of a/c yet. The reason that Australia hasn't started from my sources in the company are the agreements between turkey and aussie authorities...
as far as BOS goes, it's not as easy to get slots and agreements going as people may think.
Turkish has shifted priority over these past few years, we are not so much into flying the Turks around the world as we are keen to get the transfer market. Connecting people through IST is our biggest money maker!



The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
User currently offlinebehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4755 posts, RR: 43
Reply 21, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 9045 times:

Quoting pilotaydin (Reply 20):
Turkish has shifted priority over these past few years, we are not so much into flying the Turks around the world as we are keen to get the transfer market. Connecting people through IST is our biggest money maker!

Very smart strategy that fully exploits the excellent geographical location of the positioning of the IST hub on the world hub!


User currently offlinelaca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4002 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 9017 times:
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Quoting aznmadsci (Reply 7):
While not confirmation and the mere desire for IAH to be on a "possible destination" list, I wonder if TK had a discussion with PK for TK to start IAH-IST and then funnel Pakistan-bound passengers onto PK flights in IST.

IAH seems like a very logical choice for TK with UA-Star Alliance having a very large hub there.


A bit off topic, does anyone know how advanced bookings are looking for TK on their new LAX-IST flight starting in March?


User currently offlineSQ773 From Spain, joined Apr 2005, 197 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 8946 times:

Quoting behramjee (Reply 21):
Very smart strategy that fully exploits the excellent geographical location of the positioning of the IST hub on the world hub!

Isn´t TK expanding a little bit too fast ? I mean, ok, you want to be a big player and that is absolutely ok, but at what cost ? As far as I know, no oil so far in Turkey and no Palm Island projected in IST so far...


User currently offlineHirnie From Germany, joined May 2004, 593 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 8780 times:

Quoting SQ773 (Reply 23):
Isn´t TK expanding a little bit too fast ?

That's exactly what I'm thinking. It is no heathy growth if it is too fast.


25 stylo777 : not exactly the number, but they've got almost half of the LAX (true destination) market, only followed LH, BA and DL. the same goes for IAD; here 60
26 styles9002 : Isn't IST partially in Europe and partially in Asia?
27 Post contains images TK1244 : The city, YES. The airport, NO! IST is in Europe, SAW is in Asia
28 Post contains links flyingalex : And why would that be? BOS-IST is less than 4900 miles long, BOS-NRT is over 6700 miles, and BOS-HKG is almost 8000 miles! http://www.gcmap.com/mapui
29 thegivenone : Completely agreed. BOS is in need of a Middle Eastern carrier that can provide strong connections to the ME, Asia and, of course Africa. There has be
30 Post contains links airbazar : BOS is not slot restricted, not even during peak TATL hours. In fact Massport has a ongoing incentives program for new carriers wanting to server new
31 Post contains images MaverickM11 : I find that hard to believe since it was supposed to be a tag using free time at IAD
32 kaitak : Will that be the only passenger A332 with RR engines? I know the new 333s have RR engines, but is it going to cause problems if that aircraft has an
33 LAXintl : BOS seems to get a fair amount of demand these days. I suspect due to the number of Turks attending and working in higher education in the area, and
34 DLDTW1962 : I agree with MaverickM11. DTW is much better for THY then ATL. DTW has 3 very large communities of Arab/Middle Eastern populations. And these areas ar
35 kaitak : I know this, but aren't the other six or seven 332s in the fleet GE powered, so the one -243 aircraft will be an "odd one out"? What is TK planning t
36 LAXintl : I don't really see it as much of an odd man out. Airline simply decided to take RR engines after a certain MSN. Same with how some airlines have gone
37 pilotaydin : Well more often than not, we react with emotions on such issues, but the numbers are showing good profits and growth...if you get the feeling that it
38 SQ773 : I understand your point and somehow I agree with you. BUT, I just wonder where all the money comes from all of a sudden. I mean, in 3 years the expan
39 pilotaydin : That's a great question and no offence taken whatsoever. The plan for TK to grow may seem recent, but it's been in the works since Cem Kozlu's time w
40 SkyPriorityDTW : While DTW is better than ATL in terms of city choice, DL wouldn't really bring in any connecting passengers for TK. Passengers who book through Orbit
41 pilotaydin : You seem to have misunderstood, BOS airport per say is not the issue, the number of slots for TC registered aircraft into the USA, we have recently u
42 pilotaydin : Open skies is not as open as it may come across...there are still many hurdles and procedures involved to open routes, as i get involved a lot with t
43 LAXintl : The point of open-skies is there is no commercial regulatory barrier which blocks route entry, frequency allocation, or seat capacity. TK could start
44 Post contains images pilotaydin : Like I said, on paper it's as you say, in real life oyle olmuo iste.. Ive been in the meetings shgm isn't the brightest in the world, there is still
45 Post contains images LAXintl : Well the US bilateral can't do much with the famous Turkish bureaucracy. Funny thing -- a US airline can overfly Iran easier than Turkey. No joke. Th
46 ETinCaribe : I really hope to see TK down here in MIA very soon, would love to fly them to beautiful Istanbul. I seem to recall that there is lots of MIA-IST deman
47 miaintl : But is MIA-IST a high yield market, does TK have any high density planes?
48 Hirnie : I didn't mean safety. For sure you have to be very careful about safety when growing so fast. But what I was talking about is: You all ready answered
49 ricardofg : I can see YUL being a much more profitable route for TK then BOS. Like DTW, YUL has a very large ME community. BOS just doesnt make sense to me. But t
50 flyingalex : Because TK is willing to play within the established process whereas the UAE carriers demanded the moon on a stick AND and oompa-loompa NOW!
51 DTWLAX : TK starting service to DTW can affect DL and maybe LH as well to some extent. Right now the middle-east and Indian subcontinent passengers connect thr
52 DLDTW1962 : I have been on both LH and DL. The last time I was on the DL flights to LHR. There was alot of Middle Eastern people on the flights both going and com
53 ptugarin : We could use more one stop connections to Asia here in BOS.
54 OP3000 : Not just O/D but also connections on both ends. TK can offer the best connections to the Middle East and competitive options farther afield in Asia.
55 miaintl : Is the market low yield or high yield?
56 OP3000 : There is a high yield component - both business to/from the Middle East/Asia and also a VFR/leisure component that while smaller is higher yielding t
57 miaintl : What kind of long-haul planes does TK have, do they have any low-premium plane to suit the Miami market?
58 kaitak : TK operates A340-300s (which are now around 16y old), A330-300s and 777-300ERs (brand new) and A330-200s, which are about 5-6y old (although there are
59 miaintl : What is the size of the Miami-Istanbul market in relation to Miami-Munich, which is a route that just got cut, also what was the reason for TK's failu
60 OP3000 : Its grown since 2001. According to MIA's routes department O/D is now at 25,000 per year between MIA and IST. It is a different environment now betwe
61 miaintl : The IST hub was not as well developed as it is now, according to my understandings right?
62 OP3000 : That too, and the fact that MIA is yet to have a Gulf carrier gives TK that near-east hub niche. TK's reputation (reliability and service) has gone a
63 miaintl : Why do you think the MIA-MUC flight did not work out?
64 SCL767 : LH is not dropping MUC-MIA; daily service resumes on November 6, 2011 utilizing the A343.
65 miaintl : Is this then just a seasonal cut? Will this be upgraded to the GDS system soon?[Edited 2011-02-14 15:24:23]
66 BOStonsox : Nope, though I went to school in Dorchester. There are Middle-Easterners here for sure, but does VFR traffic make this route profitable? There might
67 OP3000 : They are cutting it because they can garner higher yields and more market share elsewhere - as I mentioned before MIA-MUC largely competes with other
68 miaintl : But its apparently now just a seasonal cut according to SCL.[Edited 2011-02-14 15:55:12]
69 OP3000 : I don't know enough about the BOS O/D to say. But there is also a large amount of traffic relating to higher education going there from the Middle Ea
70 SCL767 : It is not a seasonal cut, this year many carriers are suffering from a shortage of long-haul a/c including AF and LH. According to LH's timetable: LH
71 miaintl : So LH is not flying MIA-MUC this summer because a lack of aircraft? Also Lh's website and the Gds system show MIA-MUC as being canceled are you getti
72 SCL767 : LH has not finalized its Winter, 2011 Schedule as yet, however if you check their online timetable for November, 2011, LH460/LH461 is published. LH w
73 miaintl : But how do you know this is because of a lack of aircraft and has nothing to do with seasonal demand?
74 Pbb152 : miaintl--this is not a thread about LH's MIA-MUC flight. Start a new thread if you want to talk about that. Jeez.
75 OB1504 : He already did, and his question was answered there. Getting back on topic, I'm eager to see the first TK aircraft, be it an A330, A340, or 777, touc
76 miaintl : My question was not answered there because now im getting new information that the flight is apparently not cut.
77 OP3000 : Not that it would be deployed to MIA, but there's talk that TK could be the next customer of the 748.
78 flyyul : LH has closed all inventory and all sales for this flight. It is effectively a cancelled route, the performance has been pitiful for a lack of a bett
79 miaintl : Well what do you think about MIA-IST with TK, do you think that has a shot or will it end in failure?
80 Northstar80 : OP3000, I am really interested in the possible 748/380 order for TK. Can you tell me where you heard about it?
81 Post contains links TK787 : Sorry to jump in but here; http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...47-8-sales-in-middle-east-and.html
82 OP3000 : That was my source also.
83 miaintl : What kind of airline was TK back in 00-01? I know they had codeshares with American Airlines and were on the verge of being a one-world carrier.
84 OP3000 : It was run a lot more like a state airline - a bit more like RJ is managed today. In the mid-2000s part of TK was privatized, and they raised a coupl
85 miaintl : Why did the TK MIA-IST flight fail back then, i mean they even had an AA codeshare.
86 OP3000 : A bunch of reasons have already been mentioned by me and others on this thread as to why it could work now more than before. Aside from those 9/11 pu
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