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US Cities With Only West Service  
User currently offlinejadedchameleon From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 29 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 6452 times:

I typically fly as a UA but occasionally fly other Star airlines from my home airport (OMA). Especially during the winter months, I've been flying US through PHX when going west, as I've had bad luck with DEN during the winter. Also in the past I've flown through IAH on CO.

I have an few upcoming trips in the Southeastern US, and was wondering why US has no service to CLT from OMA or from several other midwest markets. I can fly through IAH to avoid ORD in the winter, but what's the story with US not offering any east service? I seem to recall that US used to have service to Kansas City some years ago.

Is this a result of East and West having to operate separate crews/aircraft? If they ever fully consolidate, is there any chance of East service? It seems odd to me there is no viable option to fly US going eastbound from the middle of the United States without massive backtracking or codesharing with UA.

36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinejmc1975 From Israel, joined Sep 2000, 3267 posts, RR: 15
Reply 1, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 6382 times:

Quoting jadedchameleon (Thread starter):

Is this a result of East and West having to operate separate crews/aircraft?

That may be a factor. However on the the Express side, it's the inability to have the flexibility to optimize utilization due to the exclusivity clause of having Mesa being the sole Express operator from PHX for many years.



.......
User currently offlineapodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4263 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 6375 times:

US still serves MCI to the east. To my knowlege, US never served Omaha until the merger, as pre merger it was an HP station, and that is likely why it has stayed as such. There are two issues with OMA not having east service. One being that US does not have a big presence in the midwest. Secondly, because of this and the size of the OMA market, you probably could not fill a mainline plane to either CLT or PHL, so it would have to be something smaller. OMA would be beyond the range of a CRJ-200. The best plane to do it would probably be a YV 900, but with so few of these in the US system, US can deploy them more profitably in other markets.

One other thing. With the star alliance, US can easily codeshare to get you where you need to go. But two stops is a PITA.


User currently offlinejadedchameleon From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 29 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 6327 times:

Not that it was great service, but there was definitely service to OMA-MCI when it was a US hub. See:
http://www.airliners.net/photo/US-Ai...d=fb321e776fc8dba50b5625d2155b80f5

I guess I'm surprised that US can't build up some service going east. We still get US 733s (in addition to Mesa CR9s) to PHX. We've gotten 319/320s in the past. Back in the early 2000s HP actually had quite a few mainline flights here. I guess if there aren't enough CR9s to go around, maybe that is the answer, because that would be the logical aircraft to try a CLT route as you mention.


User currently offlineAVLAirlineFreq From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 1039 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6069 times:

US has always been weak with routes from CLT to a number of decent-sized cities west of the Mississippi River, going back well before the merger. US has not offered or only recently offered service (sometimes seasonal) from CLT to places like PDX, SLC, SJC, TUS, SMF, YVR, DSM, ABQ and ICT. For many years, US didn't fly CLT-SAT or CLT-AUS.

Obviously, PHX serves some of the far western markets with one-stop service to many destinations on the East Coast, and two-connection service is available through CLT and PHX, but as another poster said, it's a PITA. DL offers nonstop service to most if not all of these cities from ATL.


User currently offlinefloridaflyboy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2010 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5711 times:

Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 4):
US has not offered or only recently offered service (sometimes seasonal) from CLT to places like PDX, SLC, SJC, TUS, SMF, YVR, DSM, ABQ and ICT. For many years, US didn't fly CLT-SAT or CLT-AUS.

SLC is a notable point that is still tied into the west network only, while other western cities like PDX have been tied into the east network. That has always interested me.



Good goes around!
User currently offlinejadedchameleon From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 29 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5697 times:

DSM has CLT service? I didn't see it on US's route map.

I agree about DL, and that is kind of my point. OMA-ATL is 5x CR7/CR9, mixed in with M88 service. There is pretty solid Star service from here to every region of the US except the Southeast (Southwest: PHX, Mountain West: DEN, South: IAH, Midwest: ORD, Northeast: EWR). Maybe I'm wrong, it seems like US could somehow make 2x Regional Jet service to CLT work. They'd have to go against DL in ATL and there's some nonstop seasonal WN service to Florida, but OMA-PHX is head to head against WN--that seems way more competitive than CLT would be.


User currently offlineABQopsHP From United States of America, joined May 2006, 849 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5638 times:

US (east) pulled out of ABQ in the late 90s or 2000 IIRC. Their service was to PIT 2x daily, and was always full. When they did pull out it was a bit of a surprise. After the merger, and while I was still working for the company, I was hopefull that something eastbound would come back. Perhaps to PHL instead of CLT. Alas here we are roughly 5 years later and still no east bound for ABQ nor SLC, and a few other stations for that matter. I can understand why it would not be practical for a mainline a/c, or at least a full size mainline. But would the E190 work in these markets? Or would ABQ-PHL and SLC-CLT/PHL be too long a leg for the 190? From ABQ there is a market east bound for Star pax, since UA has the N/S from ABQ to ORD/IAD and CO to IAH, but pax who want to fly US have to fly to PHX and double back over ABQ to their dest. back east.
JD CRPXE/EV



A line is evidence that other people exist.
User currently offlineapodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4263 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5603 times:

Quoting ABQopsHP (Reply 7):
US (east) pulled out of ABQ in the late 90s or 2000 IIRC. Their service was to PIT 2x daily, and was always full. When they did pull out it was a bit of a surprise. After the merger, and while I was still working for the company, I was hopefull that something eastbound would come back. Perhaps to PHL instead of CLT. Alas here we are roughly 5 years later and still no east bound for ABQ nor SLC, and a few other stations for that matter. I can understand why it would not be practical for a mainline a/c, or at least a full size mainline. But would the E190 work in these markets? Or would ABQ-PHL and SLC-CLT/PHL be too long a leg for the 190? From ABQ there is a market east bound for Star pax, since UA has the N/S from ABQ to ORD/IAD and CO to IAH, but pax who want to fly US have to fly to PHX and double back over ABQ to their dest. back east.
JD CRPXE/EV

Not that this has anything to do with it, but remember that US and the State of New Mexico were in a battle over serving alcohol on US flights over NM, and the Federal Courts got involved. That probably left a bitter taste in US mouth.


User currently offlineAVLAirlineFreq From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 1039 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5539 times:

Quoting jadedchameleon (Reply 6):
DSM has CLT service? I didn't see it on US's route map.

I agree about DL, and that is kind of my point. OMA-ATL is 5x CR7/CR9, mixed in with M88 service. There is pretty solid Star service from here to every region of the US except the Southeast (Southwest: PHX, Mountain West: DEN, South: IAH, Midwest: ORD, Northeast: EWR). Maybe I'm wrong, it seems like US could somehow make 2x Regional Jet service to CLT work. They'd have to go against DL in ATL and there's some nonstop seasonal WN service to Florida, but OMA-PHX is head to head against WN--that seems way more competitive than CLT would be.

No, no service to DSM from CLT. I was trying to say that DSM is one of the medium-sized and larger cities west of the Mississippi that is either not served from CLT, or only served seasonally (or just very recently).

I think this lack of connectivity has probably cost US market share in both the west and the southeast. It's just too easy to use DL for those flights, and DL has little competition in many of those market segments. It's probably not a huge revenue loss, given that the larger markets in the west do have service on US to CLT, but I will admit that I chose DL as my carrier of choice several years ago and the lack of westbound flow through CLT was a factor.

[Edited 2011-02-10 10:04:37]

User currently offlineDesertJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7776 posts, RR: 16
Reply 10, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5495 times:

Quoting ABQopsHP (Reply 7):
US (east) pulled out of ABQ in the late 90s or 2000 IIRC. Their service was to PIT 2x daily, and was always full. When they did pull out it was a bit of a surprise.

If UA can make a 1x daily ABQ-IAD work I see no reason why ABQ-CLT 1 or 2x daily couldn't work. It seems like a pretty logical A319 route if done just once a day and it would give a lot more connectivity within the US network -- especially international service to the Caribbean and Europe.

I am w/ the OP in being somewhat confused that US hasn't done more to connect the dots in between. Though perhaps with more express operators coming into PHX along with a hopefully strengthening economy things may change.



Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
User currently offlineplaneguy727 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1247 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5352 times:

In my simple opinion I believe some markets, where the brand is unknown and would take a while to build, airlines will elect to codeshare. This allows the dot to be on the map, but not require the investment of planes, crews, etc.

I have traveled to cities in the midwest on US issued tickets flying UA metal that accomplish this purpose. And I believe other airlines around the world do it as well. After all, that's one of the benefits of codeshares (and alliances).



I want to live in an old and converted 727...
User currently offlinedavidlc3 From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 341 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5167 times:

Quoting DesertJets (Reply 10):
If UA can make a 1x daily ABQ-IAD work I see no reason why ABQ-CLT 1 or 2x daily couldn't work. It seems like a pretty logical A319 route if done just once a day and it would give a lot more connectivity within the US network -- especially international service to the Caribbean and Europe.

Back in "the day" (c. 1995) we did offer 737-400 n/s PIT ABQ and IIRC we had something out of CLT to ABQ..but PIT was a definite.


User currently onlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6750 posts, RR: 32
Reply 13, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5156 times:

Quoting DesertJets (Reply 10):
If UA can make a 1x daily ABQ-IAD work I see no reason why ABQ-CLT 1 or 2x daily couldn't work.

The local Albuquerque-Washington market is about 4 times larger than the local Albuquerque-Charlotte market. United is also a more relevant carrier to passengers in Albuquerque, given non-stop service to all five pre-merger UA hubs as well as the CO hub at IAH. CLT doesn't really bring much to the ABQ market that would be unique, given the existing non-stops to DFW, IAH, ATL, and ORD.

Quoting jadedchameleon (Thread starter):
I have an few upcoming trips in the Southeastern US, and was wondering why US has no service to CLT from OMA or from several other midwest markets.

US Airways briefly offered PIT-OMA on an ERJ (three times daily) with the service starting on 9/9/2001. They did have US Airways Express service for many years on Air Midwest (ZV) to MCI -- a relic of the US Airways hub attempt at MCI.

This isn't to say that markets like CLT-OMA or CLT-ABQ couldn't work; they probably could, given enough time. But CLT-OMA would be particularly difficult as it would be a long, thin RJ market in an environment of very high fuel costs. The presence of low-fare competition by way of WN and F9 in these markets also adds to the potential challenge.


User currently offlinedsuairptman From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 898 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5105 times:

CLT-OMA is doable saying US schedules the 900 flight as a transition between CLT and PHX systems.

PHX-DSM only is 2 flights a day. One a 200 the other on a 900. I doubt US sees the demand for CLT N/S and that could become an uncomfrotable flight on a 900.

All in all this thread represents US not flying a lot of places that they should. Remember a point in the merger was to better connect points on both sides of the country with N/S and 1 stop service. This thread also represents another issue in that of US generally making a lot of moves that don't make sense, IMO.



GEAUX SAINTS!
User currently offlinepsa1011 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 295 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5043 times:
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Quoting dsuairptman (Reply 14):
All in all this thread represents US not flying a lot of places that they should.

On a somewhat related note, does anyone remember which routes US added to the former PSA network after ~1990? RNO-SAN was one example, per the 1991 route map. And when did US abandon the entire PSA network ultimately?


User currently onlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6371 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5015 times:

Quoting ABQopsHP (Reply 7):
US (east) pulled out of ABQ in the late 90s or 2000 IIRC.

The running joke (from when US Airways was still around) is that US aircraft did a 180 west of MCI and ran home like a homesick angel   I can't believe they let their western US market die like they did, especially after acquiring PSA.

ELP is, and has always been, HP country. I don't think US in any guise ever had aspirations of serving ELP. You'd think with the growth at Ft. Bliss recently, there'd be demand now for some nonstop east coast flights. Not sure PHL is the right place, though...



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineCactus742 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 237 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4644 times:

The dearth of east service to some of these markets is also magnified by the LAS de-hubbing. Some of these cities had flights to both LAS and PHX but with LAS serving so few places now, it really makes their service feel lackluster. TUS is one of those cities that lost LAS service.

However, there was one daily CLT-TUS roundtrip for a little while; I took it in 2008 and it was packed. I would love to see that come back.



Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive.
User currently offlinegoblin211 From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1209 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4250 times:

i think the new saab might be good for OMA-CLT or OMA-PHL. Don't other airlines use their saabs for similar routes?


From the airport with love
User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3057 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2959 times:

Quoting Cactus742 (Reply 17):
However, there was one daily CLT-TUS roundtrip for a little while; I took it in 2008 and it was packed. I would love to see that come back.

Yeah they yanked that fast. Loads were good but I heard the yield wasn't that great. IIRC, CO had a similar problem with TUS-EWR.

Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 4):
PDX, SLC, SJC, TUS, SMF, YVR, DSM, ABQ and ICT

Of the cities you listed, PDX and SMF currently have seasonal service. See above for TUS.

Here are the daily passengers from CLT for some "west only cities"

SLC-163
SJC-64
TUS-57
ABQ-86
DSM-53
OMA-63
ICT-49
SNA-132
ONT-95
COS-67

SLC has the most, followed by SNA. I think if US started SLC, DL may fire back and restart service, forcing US off the route, and then cancel the route themselves.

SNA would be a great canidate if they still flew 737s to the West.

ABQ is another canidate, but I doubt it.

ONT has more pax than I expect, but its not gonna happen.

COS would make sense for the winter, and I think could be done with an E-Jet.

ABQ could be done with a E-Jet in the winter too, I think.



E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets87 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2764 times:

Quoting goblin211 (Reply 18):
i think the new saab might be good for OMA-CLT or OMA-PHL. Don't other airlines use their saabs for similar routes?

With CLT-OMA At 913 miles, I doubt many people would be lining up for a Saab just to fly US through CLT. 913 miles is just barely within range of the Saab 340 (DL's website says 1076 miles), but with a cruising speed of under 300 mph, you're looking at close to a 4 hour block gate-to-gate, and possibly even severe payload restrictions. Just how many people are going to go for that option when OMA has a many other decent options to choose from?


User currently onlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6750 posts, RR: 32
Reply 21, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2630 times:

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 19):
COS would make sense for the winter, and I think could be done with an E-Jet.
Quoting USAirALB (Reply 19):
ICT-49

US doesn't serve COS anymore. They don't serve ICT, either.


User currently offlineapodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4263 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2552 times:

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 19):

SNA would be a great canidate if they still flew 737s to the West.

Once daily on an A 319 would be ideal with that pax count. Only issue would be weight restrictions coming back to CLT since SNA has a short runway.


User currently offlinejadedchameleon From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 29 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2264 times:

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 20):
SLC-163
SJC-64
TUS-57
ABQ-86
DSM-53
OMA-63
ICT-49
SNA-132
ONT-95
COS-67

Are these numbers just passengers who originate from CLT to one of the above cities?

It seems to me the potential here is larger than this... CLT gives another one stop option to many Carribean markets which have limited one-stop options, and another one stop option to Europe (ATL, ORD and EWR being the only substantial other options). I'm sure ATL is a larger market than CLT, but it seems to me that the reason why we have 5x daily service there is more about the many connecting opportunities there.


User currently offlinevctony From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 455 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2150 times:

Interestingly enough. DL does fairly well on ATL-ABQ and ATL-TUS. You'd think US would be able to pull ABQ and TUS off from CLT.

25 uncGSO : I flew US GSO-PIT-DSM in the mid-90s....service into DSM was on a F100. Left DSM to MCI on a Beech 1900D. Was my first trip on either of these plane t
26 point2point : CLT, by way of US, only serves 7 cities, Denver and westward yearly, and they are DEN, PHX, LAS, LAX, SAN, SFO, SEA, and then PDX seasonally. The same
27 SANFan : Please note, these numbers are TOTAL pax (both directions). The more important number is PDEW (O&D Pax per Day in Each Direction) which is HALF t
28 SurfandSnow : US, like all airlines, is stronger in some geographic areas than others. The Great Plains region just so happens to be very weak for them. They recent
29 InnocuousFox : Always remember the rest of the equation, folks. If you add something in one place, you are removing it from another. This is referred to as the "s-cu
30 DesertJets : Your point and ScottBs further up the thread is certainly valid. But at the same time a lot of these cities (I am thinking ABQ and TUS in particular)
31 TUSAA : AA has the TUS-East Coast traffic pretty much locked up. AA has a ton of FF's and Elites in the TUS area, and most of the military and Raytheon contr
32 phllax : US served DSM, OMA, ICT all from PIT at one point in time. By the December 9, 1992 timetable only PIT-OMA remained and the MCI USX B1900 operation was
33 InnocuousFox : In a multiple hub system, there are a few layers of connectivity. Obviously, there are direct flights which bypass hubs altogether. In UA, this would
34 PHLwok : US East flew PIT-SNA and later PHL-SNA as recently as maybe 4-5 years ago before pulling the flight. It would be interesting to see if there were any
35 FlyDeltaJets87 : What isn't attractive on DL metal though is often code-shared with AS, and DL serves quite a few western cities out of LAX, albeit, not to the same e
36 InnocuousFox : According to their route map, the only western cities they serve out of LAX are SFO, SMF, PHX, LAS, and SAN. Certainly, they still cover quite a bit
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