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Egyptair Near An A380 Order?  
User currently offlineFCKC From France, joined Nov 2004, 2348 posts, RR: 4
Posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 16914 times:

According to the last issue of Air&Cosmos , Egyptair is negotiating a wide body order with Airbus , including A380.
On other forum they are said to get the first A380 in 2019.
With the second Kingfisher delay for the A380 , delay with Virgin , and uncertain future for the ILFC order , can't MS get their first before 2019 ?
The A380 purchase will help Egypt to have a massive tourism growth.

On the other way , what other WB type (s) MS is negotiating ? More A330 , including freighter ? A350XWB ?


Of course , probably all will depend of the new political situation emerging in Egypt......

58 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9511 posts, RR: 52
Reply 1, posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 16894 times:

It would be interesting to have them make an order now since I am assuming their credit rating has gone far down which makes leasing companies and finance companies a little worried. While the crisis will pass, Egyptair will have lost a significant amount of money during it and in the near future as tourism to Egypt falls. With lower credit ratings, they will have to pay significantly more. I'd be surprised to see an order for new airplanes now.


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlinetravelavnut From Netherlands, joined May 2010, 1595 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 16869 times:

Quoting FCKC (Thread starter):
Egyptair is negotiating a wide body order with Airbus , including A380.
On other forum they are said to get the first A380 in 2019.

That would be great news, but...

Quoting FCKC (Thread starter):
The A380 purchase will help Egypt to have a massive tourism growth.

..I think that depends on what will happen the following weeks and months.



Live From Amsterdam!
User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5737 posts, RR: 48
Reply 3, posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 16760 times:

Yeah I don't think EgyptAir should start counting its chickens with regards to tourism just yet. There's way too much going on. Heck, I don't even know if they're even going to pick up the brand new 77W waiting for them at Everett.


That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineFAEDC3 From Ecuador, joined Jun 2007, 154 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 16289 times:

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 3):
Yeah I don't think EgyptAir should start counting its chickens with regards to tourism just yet. There's way too much going on.

Egypt has been a top tourist destination for decades, despite all the turmoil and happenings in the region and the country itself. Since tourism is a major contributor to the country's economy, I'd bet that whoever takes over the government now that Mubarak is gone, will try to boost income related to the industry.

I'm sure that the delivery of the new 77W will not be delayed for long, everything will try to get back in "business-as-usual" mode ASAP.

My 0,02


User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 16230 times:

Quoting FCKC (Thread starter):
According to the last issue of Air&Cosmos , Egyptair is negotiating a wide body order with Airbus , including A380.
On other forum they are said to get the first A380 in 2019.
With the second Kingfisher delay for the A380 , delay with Virgin , and uncertain future for the ILFC order , can't MS get their first before 2019 ?

It should be possible to get a first one in 2015 or 2016, no doubt.

Quoting FCKC (Thread starter):
The A380 purchase will help Egypt to have a massive tourism growth.

Egypt already has many tourists. I think with the current development, there will be more travels from "exile"-Egyptians to Egypt and there might be more people in Egypt gaining some wealth, giving them the possibility to travel abroad more often.

Therefore I think the A380 is realistic in the medium term, especially with a population of 80+ millions growing and growing.


User currently offlinebehramjee From Canada, joined exactly 11 years ago today! , 4756 posts, RR: 43
Reply 6, posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 16127 times:

I dont think so MS require an A 380 on any route for the next 5-7 years. At the very most, summer service to Saudi Arabia, DXB and KWI only. They should rather order more B 773ERs and configure some in a high density 2 class layout with 440 seats etc.

User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8290 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 15940 times:
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WHY would Egyptair need an A380. Their 777-300ER are 49J/ ?Y and have to seat nearly 400 people. Egyptair is not going to have a huge connecting complex like Emirates and Qatar Air do. Where does Egypt air need to fly 500 people to in one plane ?

User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 15780 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 7):
Where does Egypt air need to fly 500 people to in one plane ?

New York, London, Hong Kong, Beijing, Johannesburg.


User currently offlinemilesrich From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1994 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 15705 times:

Quoting Thorben (Reply 8):
Quoting jfk777 (Reply 7):
Where does Egypt air need to fly 500 people to in one plane ?

New York, London, Hong Kong, Beijing, Johannesburg.

You have got to be kidding. It will be a long time before tourism in Egypt will demand a 500 passenger airplane. Perhaps they can use the A-380 for pilgramage trips to Mecca!


User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11617 posts, RR: 60
Reply 10, posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 15676 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 7):
Egyptair is not going to have a huge connecting complex like Emirates and Qatar Air do.

Maybe not EK and DXB, but CAI already exceeds the passenger numbers of DOH and MS is not far behind QR, although the latter is growing at a quicker rate. A small fleet of A380s is by no means improbable looking five years down the line to when they could receive them.


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 15615 times:

Quoting milesrich (Reply 9):
You have got to be kidding. It will be a long time before tourism in Egypt will demand a 500 passenger airplane. Perhaps they can use the A-380 for pilgramage trips to Mecca!

 

It will not only be for tourists. However, is Egypt a major tourist destination or not?

Besides, they have 77Ws with 346 seats. An A380 with 500 seats isn't that much of a step further.


User currently offlinekl911 From Ireland, joined Jul 2003, 5120 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 15430 times:

It would be nice, but I dont believe that an airline will order A380¨s for tourism only, no yield. Otherwise KLM would have ordered A380's for PMB and the Dutch Caribian islands long time ago.

Egypt is getting to hot for tourisme anyway, temperatures above 45 degrees celcius, so just the red sea resorts will get some business. And as we all know, its getting warmer and warmer.... pff, time for a cold beer now..  



Next trip : DUB-AUH-CGK-DPS-KUL-AUH-CDG-ORK :-)
User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4705 posts, RR: 38
Reply 13, posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 15400 times:
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Quoting kl911 (Reply 12):
It would be nice


It would sure be nice, but as with so many speculative threads out here I will believe it when I see it. Until then it is speculation only.  .


User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11617 posts, RR: 60
Reply 14, posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 15354 times:

Quoting kl911 (Reply 12):
It would be nice, but I dont believe that an airline will order A380¨s for tourism only, no yield.

I don't believe Egypt Air would order for these reasons either, but it's worth remembering that Air Austral already has ordered two A380s for precisely that purpose, because the CASM is so good.

http://www.airbus.com/events/dubai20...er-for-two-single-class-a380s.html


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlinegoblin211 From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1209 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 14586 times:

While i hope to see the bird in Egyptair livery one day, i don't think it'll be anytime soon. right now they have more important things to do...like finding a new leader.


From the airport with love
User currently onlinetrex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 4700 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 14480 times:
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Quoting goblin211 (Reply 15):
While i hope to see the bird in Egyptair livery one day, i don't think it'll be anytime soon. right now they have more important things to do...like finding a new leader.

They did say 2019 delivery!


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24917 posts, RR: 22
Reply 17, posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 14153 times:

Quoting kl911 (Reply 12):
I dont believe that an airline will order A380¨s for tourism only, no yield.

French carrier Air Austral, based on the island of Reunion in the Indian Ocean, has ordered 2 A380s. Their traffic is largely tourist and VFR. They plan to operate the A380s in a high-density configuration with about 840 seats.
http://www.airbus.com/presscentre/pr...single-class-a380s/search-results/


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12128 posts, RR: 51
Reply 18, posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 14111 times:

If the Muslium Brotherhood takes over in the Sept. elections (planned), I doubt Egypt will continue to enjoy the tourism levels they had up until last month.

Isn't most of Egypt's tourists from Russia and Eastern Europe? Do they all fly MS? If not, why would they need what is essentially a short range A-380 to the EU, Russia, or DXB?


User currently offline328JET From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 14064 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 18):
Isn't most of Egypt's tourists from Russia and Eastern Europe

No...

A lot tourist come from your mentioned areas, but the same numbers come from the UK, Germany, Netherlands, Belgium and Scandinavia.


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8290 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 13915 times:
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Quoting Thorben (Reply 8):
New York, London, Hong Kong, Beijing, Johannesburg.

Thorben,

Your own Germany's Lufthansa can fly an A380 to all those cities but Egyptair needing A380's ? First Egyptair is not going to have First Class, their new 77W don't. They are not gpoing to have a 100 seat Business Class section, so its going to be heavy y class. 600 seat A380 based in cairo doesn't sound like a very profitable proposition.

Why does every airline want or need to join the A380 club. Its a monster airplane to match a monster ego, its not an airplane to be flown profitably without lots of F/J passengers. Egypt is not Singapore, Dubai or Korea.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25013 posts, RR: 85
Reply 21, posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 13707 times:
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Quoting milesrich (Reply 9):
Perhaps they can use the A-380 for pilgramage trips to Mecca!

Why not? There's good money in it.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinecerecl From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 728 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 13590 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 18):
If the Muslium Brotherhood takes over in the Sept. elections (planned), I doubt Egypt will continue to enjoy the tourism levels they had up until last month.

Whoever in charge of Egypt will do their utter best to maintain and develop its tourism industry. You can be quite sure they don't want to let go of US aids either. Not all Muslim governments are hardline like that of Iran, and Muslim or not Muslim they are sure as hell not stupid. Maybe we should trust democratic process (Yes, even when a Muslim government is elected   ) and respect the choice of Egyptian people?

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 20):
Why does every airline want or need to join the A380 club. Its a monster airplane to match a monster ego,

 
Why assume airlines order A380 to "match a monster ego"? A380 for MS, if ordered, is reportedly going to be delivered in 2019. Is it beyond the realm of possibility that in 8 years MS will have grown to such an extent that A380 operation is justified?
In the article linked below,
http://atwonline.com/airline-finance...ar-hopes-leverage-cairo-hub-0309-0
The quote of MS CEO at the end of it sounds entirely down to earth and reasonable. He essentially said "When we can do it, we will do it". Where is the monster ego?

[Edited 2011-02-11 18:14:03]

User currently offlinecpd From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 4879 posts, RR: 38
Reply 23, posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 13468 times:

Quoting cerecl (Reply 22):


Why assuming airlines order A380 to "match a monster ego"?

You are missing the obvious.   Haven't you read most of the anti-A380 comments - you'll see my point.  

I think the A380 purchase might be wise. It'll take a long time to deliver anyhow, based on the giant EK order - by that time, the airline will probably be a bigger player.


Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 18):
If the Muslium Brotherhood takes over in the Sept. elections (planned)

Don't worry about it - things will go smoothly. There is little interest in upsetting the apple-cart too much. People want a better life, and under the old regime, that didn't seem to be happening. Everything should probably be business as usual soon enough, once the celebrations calm down.   Anyhow, let's not rain on their celebrations.

[Edited 2011-02-11 17:51:50]

User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8290 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 13096 times:
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Quoting cerecl (Reply 22):
Why assume airlines order A380 to "match a monster ego"? A380 for MS, if ordered, is reportedly going to be delivered in 2019. Is it beyond the realm of possibility that in 8 years MS will have grown to such an extent that A380 operation is justified?
In the article linked below,
http://atwonline.com/airline-finance...ar-hopes-leverage-cairo-hub-0309-0
The quote of MS CEO at the end of it sounds entirely down to earth and reasonable. He essentially said "When we can do it, we will do it". Where is the monster ego?

The ATW online article is from 10/16/2009, its over a year old. Rather dated and not current with the situation in Egypt.


25 mham001 : But in another thread, we are being told repeatedly 2020 is too far away for airlines to think about ordering a 737 replacement.
26 ETinCaribe : I would love to see the A380 in the MS colors. Hmmm, qualify long time. Egypt gets 14M tourists a year today so I think it could sustain a 500 pax pla
27 cerecl : How so? The current turmoil will not last forever, and with Mubarak resigning the situation is likely to stablise. The report was more than 1 year ol
28 directorguy : True but keep in mind that you have tons of airlines flying into CAI that don't go to DOH, where QR has a larger market share of the home market. And
29 Post contains links and images FRAspotter : Looks like there was at least discussed as far back as 2003 by reading this old thread... Hopefully something becomes of this and Egyptair does order
30 LHRBlueSkies : Oh, and so what was the 747 back in it's heyday? I have more concern with the massive expansion rate that MS is going through, do they have the infra
31 Navigator : First of all I would like to join the queue in congratulating the egyptian people this morning! Hope all tourists come back soon now. But I do not re
32 oldeuropean : Some here seem to forget that Cairo with his metropolitan area is the biggest city of the Arabian world and also Africa, with a population of about 19
33 Navigator : I for one hope that developments go in the right direction for Egypt. What we saw was a kind of Berlin wall falling in the area. I think that Egyptai
34 Thorben : This is not about ego. Cairo is a metropolitan area with (officially) 16 million people in it and it is the capital of a great country with 80 millio
35 KC135TopBoom : IIRC, it has been several years since MS retired their last B-747. The biggest airplane type they operate today is the 4 B-777-300ER, all of which are
36 Thorben : Reducing the number of seats while increasing the number of C class seats means they are trying to get more money out of their business. It also show
37 jfk777 : This is the same reasons Argentina got 747 about 30 years back, that didn't turn out so well. I want a successful Egyptair as much as the next guy, b
38 TK787 : Good Luck to our Egyptian members in the months to come and sorry about the lives lost in the last couple of weeks. -Does anyone have numbers of, what
39 mham001 : I think many would say that it was also a case of monster ego. Didn't it lead to the demise of more than one airline?
40 goblin211 : Sorry, i didn't see 2019 delivery. should be a good addition to the 380 fleet that hopefully we'll see often at US airports.
41 Navigator : Even if I respect your view here I do not think you recognize or understand the potential of Egypt, nor the A380. I think we would hear another voice
42 mham001 : Replacement needs of old aircraft is far easier to predict than future growth spurring a new type, especially when the new type is not exactly versat
43 Post contains links trex8 : 70% tourists to Egypt from Europe (incl Russia), 20% from Arab countries in 2007, http://www.prestigeredsea.com/why-invest/25m-tourists-by-2020 maybe
44 LHRBlueskies : Yup, and I thank you for recognising my point.[Edited 2011-02-13 12:43:45 by srbmod]
45 ZKCIF : Well, it's not that doom and gloom. 1. The country is reached by air by virtually all visitors; the underground transportation for border crossing see
46 TK787 : There are only 4 world class airlines that ordered that many so far; EK, LH, SQ, QF
47 jfk777 : Navigator, If the best thing for Egyptair is an A380 then so be it. IF its an A350 so be it, if its an 777 so bet it. I believe in free markets, I wo
48 Post contains images Navigator : You are right. You must have a certain traffic level. And of course the 747 was the first widebody plane. The DC-10 came years later. But there is a
49 ZKCIF : Dear TK787, I know how the numbers add among 388 orders. I would also be strongly surprised if the order came even for 8 frames (I would be pleasantl
50 mham001 : What economic restraints were those?
51 cerecl : 8 years from now is a funny definition of "suddenly". Well, if one moves across the Himalayas, one will discover a country experiencing sustained str
52 Navigator : Mubarak has not allowed investments in the way europeans are used to.He has put his fingers in everything and by doing that making development diffic
53 scbriml : Not forgetting taking tens of billions of $s out of the country in his own pockets.
54 Navigator : They are just discussing this on BBC World. They think it is hard for Egypt to get the money back...
55 mham001 : Hogwash. Democracy has little to nothing to do with economic development. If it were so, how do you explain China and others?
56 su184 : I mentioned in a previous thread that from internal sources MS was negotiating an order for a minimum 2 A380's and this is why Airbus sent an A380 to
57 Burkhard : The current situation in Egypt raises hope that things might turn to the better in a not too distant future. If corruption and state terror can be bro
58 faro : Economic development per se, it's debatable. But democracy does tend to curtail a negative form of economic development called corruption. In Egypt,
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