Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Why No Uptake Of The 757 In 737-900 Australia/NZ?  
User currently offlineMileHighOffice From Australia, joined Jun 2010, 153 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 4554 times:

Given the large (percentage-wise) fleet of 737s and 767s in use in Australia and New Zealand, I am surprised that the 757 was not acquired by Qantas or Air New Zealand by the early 90s. Would have given the carriers the range on routes the earlier generations of 737 lacked and and where the 767 was too big (or at least better economics with a 752 over a 762 with not that many more seats on the 76).

Sectors to Perth from most cities (other than MEL/SYD) , as well as leisure destinations across AU/NZ and the islands of the South Pacific (like New Caledonia or Fiji) would have seemed like a great mission for the 75.

Now, in a similar fashion, I would think Qantas and Virgin would consider the 737-900ER as an option to fill delivery slots on their NG 737s. Particularly Virgin, who (until the two A330s arrive) could use something bigger without new type ratings.

That being said I think Qantas made some bad fleet decisions around the 777 and that Virgin getting a sub-fleet of a couple A330s is nuts (to match the wisdom of ordering 77Ws for V with the small rear cargo door which has hindered their lease-back scheme)... all of which have been debated in detail in the forum for years.

Interested in others' thoughts and ideas re the 757 and 739 in AU/NZ.

13 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBoeing744 From Canada, joined Jun 2005, 1840 posts, RR: 23
Reply 1, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4442 times:

The 757 probably would have worked well there. I am sure there are specific reasons for those airlines not going for it though...

I always thought the 757 would have been perfect for Air Canada as well. Great for the numerous long and thin sectors they fly. Also perfect commonality with the 767s...


User currently offlineZKNCL From New Zealand, joined Oct 2010, 292 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4379 times:

The 739 is likely to be picked up by a AU/NZ carrier in the future and one 757 was used by Freedom Air for a while

User currently offlinetayser From Australia, joined Mar 2008, 1131 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4366 times:

The 757 is too small for MEL/SYD-PER and MEL-SYD - PER used to be the domain of 743!!! and well... they don't fly 763s/330s half hourly to hourly on MEL-SYD for no reason at all!

May have been good for anywhere in AU to DPS, but given that you can do DPS from PER/ADL on a 737/320 now that's probably moot.


User currently offlineSenliture From Australia, joined May 2000, 431 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4314 times:

757 has a slower turnaround time compare to wide-bodies. Also the Australian market prefer frequency over capacity. I guess that's why 739 wasn't acquired by DJ as well

User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9666 posts, RR: 52
Reply 5, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4292 times:

It would have made a great transTasman plane back in the 90s. Air New Zealand I believe stretched 733s to the limit to make the routes in the 90s. The A320 and 738 work perfectly well nowadays however. I don't see the need to go up to the A321 or 739. The A320 and 738 are in general more popular aircraft with the airlines.


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineMileHighOffice From Australia, joined Jun 2010, 153 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4222 times:

Quoting tayser (Reply 3):

The 757 is too small for MEL/SYD-PER and MEL-SYD - PER used to be the domain of 743!!! and well... they don't fly 763s/330s half hourly to hourly on MEL-SYD for no reason at all!

.... yes, exactly, that's why I said from other ports besides MEL/SYD to PER... so your point is moot


User currently onlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5712 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4072 times:

Quoting MileHighOffice (Reply 6):
Quoting tayser (Reply 3):

The 757 is too small for MEL/SYD-PER and MEL-SYD - PER used to be the domain of 743!!! and well... they don't fly 763s/330s half hourly to hourly on MEL-SYD for no reason at all!

.... yes, exactly, that's why I said from other ports besides MEL/SYD to PER... so your point is moo

Not moot.
As the above quotes point out it was too small for the main routes and the other routes did not, by themselves, justify introducing another fleet type. The cost of introducing a new fleet type in Australia/NZ should not be under estimated, particularly a few decades ago.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineVirginFlyer From New Zealand, joined Sep 2000, 4575 posts, RR: 41
Reply 8, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3631 times:

Didn't Ansett consider it before ordering the A320?

V/F



"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
User currently offlineVHHYI From Australia, joined Oct 2007, 97 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3035 times:

Quoting VirginFlyer (Reply 8):
Didn't Ansett consider it before ordering the A320?

Sir Peter wanted to add them to his 'aircraft collection', right before the A320 went into service
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...9B0DEEDF133AF93BA35753C1A961948260

Boeing's O&D site shows the order ended up on the books of AWAS



This Porsche is like an Airbus;an Engineering marvel, but without passion - Jeremy Clarkson
User currently offlinecpd From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 4879 posts, RR: 37
Reply 10, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2504 times:

Quoting Senliture (Reply 4):
757 has a slower turnaround time compare to wide-bodies. Also the Australian market prefer frequency over capacity. I guess that's why 739 wasn't acquired by DJ as well

Excepting of course when A330-200s are used frequently for short routes. Frequency and capacity.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25626 posts, RR: 22
Reply 11, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 1997 times:

Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 1):
I always thought the 757 would have been perfect for Air Canada as well. Great for the numerous long and thin sectors they fly.

But less competitive with other carriers operating widebodies. Remember AC once had 22 767-200s and -200ERs which have about the same seating capacity as a 757-200.


User currently onlinetullamarine From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1599 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 1879 times:

I believe the 757 was considered but the A320 was capable of flying all the domestic missions then in place in Australia so the 757 would have been too much plane. Airbus also gave AN a sweet deal to be an earlier adopter of the A320.

Due to the 3 man cockpit in AN's762s at the time, there would have been no commonality benefit flowing from the 757s and it may have created industrial issues leading to a 3 man cockpit in the 757 as well.

I believe there is a chance DJ will take some 739ERs in the future. It has a significant backlog of 737s on order with Boeing and they can choose actual types as they come up for production. The 739ER would not be acquired for its range but more for it ability to carry more pax which could be of benefit as DJ's strives to continue growth despite being subject to gate capacity restrictions in SYD and to a lesser extent in MEL.



717,721/2,732/3/4/5/7/8/9,742/3/4,752/3,762/3,772,W,310,320/1,332/3,388,DC9,DC10,F28,F100,142,143,E90,CR2,D82/3/4,SF3,AT
User currently offlinealangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 2106 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1792 times:

The 757s were briefly operated on Australian domestic routes in 1989 during the pilots dispute. Some UK charter airlines like Monarch operated on behalf of the domestic carriers. At that time, the domestic carriers thought the 757s were slow to turn around, though with more experience they might have managed to speed up the turn around. After all, 757s were used on London to Paris, and London to Edinburgh/Glasgow, which are actually shorter distances than SYD-MEL/BNE.

757s might have been good aircraft for transcon flights, when they would have replaced twice daily 727s on SYD/MEL-PER. Now they have missed their chance, partly because the market sometimes needs bigger planes, and also the smaller planes - A320s and modern 737s have better range than previous planes - you do not need the 757 for the range.

The 757 versus a widebody is a matter of whether you need more underfloor freight capacity. It is interesting that Australian transcon routes do use widebodies, whereas US transcons are often operated with smaller aircraft to give better frequency.


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Why No Footage Of The AA 757 Hitting The Pentagon? posted Fri Nov 16 2001 15:38:01 by Cedarjet
Why No Pics Of The A346? posted Fri Mar 16 2001 07:20:26 by Hkgspotter1
Why No Airbus Equivalents Of The 757 Or 7E7-3? posted Sun Nov 14 2004 03:15:24 by TransPac
Why No Winglets On The 737-600? posted Wed Feb 10 2010 09:29:09 by fokkerf28
Why No Winglets For The 737-400? posted Fri Nov 9 2007 12:31:51 by 1337Delta764
Why No Winglets For The 737-600? posted Tue Jul 11 2006 11:35:41 by LY777
Why Are All Of The AA Flights In PHL Delayed? posted Mon Aug 2 2004 00:59:04 by Tony Lu
Why No Taxiway To The End Of Some Runways... posted Thu Feb 19 2004 00:40:06 by Maiznblu_757
The Success Of The 757 posted Sun Dec 19 2010 19:43:33 by nycdave
The End Of The 717 In The Continental US? posted Mon Sep 27 2010 19:16:19 by TrijetsRMissed