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United/Continental FA's Not Getting Profit Sharing  
User currently offlineFly764 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 114 posts, RR: 3
Posted (3 years 7 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3819 times:

I haven't posted in ages, but curious what others think of this link.

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-555642


It basically says that Smisek is refusing to give the Flight Attendants profit sharing because they haven't agreed to a new contract. Kind of blackmail if you ask me. Perhaps there is more to the story. I know as a former Continental flight attendant if I was still working there I would be furious.

13 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAADC10 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2091 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 7 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3696 times:

Leaving the FAs out of profit sharing is related to their previous stance at UA to be left out of the ESOP. As a bargaining group, the FAs prefer to have slightly higher regular pay than to be exposed to the potentially more lucrative but variable profit sharing. In addition, UA welshed on their pension obligations. Many big companies have welshed on health and retirement so groups with a history of preferring upfront pay will definitely insist on taking it.

User currently onlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4282 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (3 years 7 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3637 times:
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Quoting Fly764 (Thread starter):
It basically says that Smisek is refusing to give the Flight Attendants profit sharing because they haven't agreed to a new contract. Kind of blackmail if you ask me.

Someone is voting now.

When I connected through IAH Sunday evening, there were signs all over Terminals C and E


User currently offlineairportugal310 From Tokelau, joined Apr 2004, 3635 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (3 years 7 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3533 times:

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 1):
Leaving the FAs out of profit sharing is related to their previous stance at UA to be left out of the ESOP. As a bargaining group, the FAs prefer to have slightly higher regular pay than to be exposed to the potentially more lucrative but variable profit sharing.

So they dont want to partake in it come contract time, but complain about it when there is something to pass out?

Not to mention, that article was clearly written by a flight attendant. No bias there at all, oh no...

Color me shocked!  



I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
User currently offlinecoewrcrew From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 16 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 7 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3476 times:

Sadly, our union doesn't seem to be interested in taking a stance or getting involved? FA's are furious that profit sharing is held as ransom to see if our second tentative agreement ends up being approved. In my 13 years I've never seen our work group with such low morale.

This is how the Contract reads..."flight attendants will receive their share of 30% of the first $250MM, 25% of the next $250MM, and 20% of all profit in excess of $500MM, such amounts to be pro-rated for any partial year(s) of participation. The flight attendant share of the distribution of profits will be based on one half of flight attendants' share of cost reduction and the other half on flight attendants' share of Continental payroll.

We agreed that in the event that a payment from the Profit Sharing Plan is due, the Company and the IAM will meet and agree regarding the details of how payments will be made under the plan."

In addition, flight attendants reporting for duty yesterday in EWR were given a cupcake with a $ on it. Wish I could take that to the bank...


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17503 posts, RR: 45
Reply 5, posted (3 years 7 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3379 times:

Quoting coewrcrew (Reply 4):
FA's are furious that profit sharing is held as ransom to see if our second tentative agreement ends up being approved

Was it in the old contract? And is it in the new contract?



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10897 posts, RR: 37
Reply 6, posted (3 years 7 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3358 times:

Quoting Fly764 (Thread starter):
It basically says that Smisek is refusing to give the Flight Attendants profit sharing because they haven't agreed to a new contract.

I had a discussion about this with a United FA on board a long haul some few days back. Her take was that their profit sharing money is going toward repainting the planes.

 Wow!



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlinecoewrcrew From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 16 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 7 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3332 times:

Yes, what I printed above is absolutely in our 2006 Contract. Management has told the f/a group that profit sharing will be awarded only if our 2nd Tentative Agreement is ratified.

User currently offlinejamake1 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1010 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (3 years 7 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3296 times:

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 1):
Leaving the FAs out of profit sharing is related to their previous stance at UA to be left out of the ESOP. As a bargaining group, the FAs prefer to have slightly higher regular pay than to be exposed to the potentially more lucrative but variable profit sharing. In addition, UA welshed on their pension obligations. Many big companies have welshed on health and retirement so groups with a history of preferring upfront pay will definitely insist on taking it.

Not quite correct. Pre-merger UA F/A's did receive profit sharing and it was deposited into their 401K accounts. Profit sharing disbursements were voted on a few years back and the majority of the membership who voted opted to have profit sharing payments go into their retirement accounts.

The article is in reference to pre-merger CO F/A's whom are governed by a totally different collective bargaining agreement (and union),



United's B747-400. "She's a a cruel lover."
User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 9, posted (3 years 7 months 6 days ago) and read 3182 times:

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 2):
When I connected through IAH Sunday evening, there were signs all over Terminals C and E



I arrived Terminal E and walked to the Terminal C parking garage, didn't notice any signs. Wow, must have had tunnel vision for the car!  
Quoting Fly764 (Thread starter):
It basically says that Smisek is refusing to give the Flight Attendants profit sharing because they haven't agreed to a new contract.



The hits just keep coming for this individual.



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13598 posts, RR: 61
Reply 10, posted (3 years 7 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2886 times:
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Quoting AADC10 (Reply 1):
As a bargaining group, the FAs prefer to have slightly higher regular pay than to be exposed to the potentially more lucrative but variable profit sharing.

I'd venture to guess that's not the FAs stance, but simply the union's - when you ask individual employees about participating in a much higher-paying (but somewhat less-consistent) profit-sharing vs. smaller incremental hourly pay increases, they'll typically go for the profit-sharing. It's the union that doesn't want or like that.

Ask any IAM COPS group member at AS how the IAM hosed them out of two years' worth of record profit-sharing payouts they turned down in exchange for a contract that only got them the profit sharing this year.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlinehiflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2172 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (3 years 7 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2864 times:

First the UA flt att's got their money..deposited in their 401k as per their contract....as did all UA groups whether their contracts were open for negotiation or not.

Second...CO used the profit check as a weapon against both the Flt Att's and Ramp at CO...either sign a tentative agreement or do not get the check.

They all had worked and helped CO earn the profit...joining in the sharing of same should not have to depend on a future contract. This old CO is not the airline of Bethune and certainly not a harbinger of labor 'peace'.


User currently offlineInnocuousFox From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2805 posts, RR: 14
Reply 12, posted (3 years 7 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2807 times:

Quoting Fly764 (Thread starter):
It basically says that Smisek is refusing to give the Flight Attendants profit sharing because they haven't agreed to a new contract. Kind of blackmail if you ask me

Seems kind of odd that you would consider this "blackmail" when it is far more common for unions to use striking as an overt form of "blackmail". The errors in thinking here are:

1) the jobs are the employees' - not the airline's
2) the employees have a right to the profits

When the rallying cry of unions is often "full pay to the last day," you could make the case that they aren't terribly interested in the success or failure of the company. *shrug*



Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
User currently offlineRising From United States of America, joined May 2010, 272 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (3 years 7 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2692 times:

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 1):
Many big companies have welshed on health and retirement so groups with a history of preferring upfront pay will definitely insist on taking i

All US employers with defined-benefit pensions pay insurance premiums to the Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation, which is essentially an insurance company, that is owned by the US Government. Companies, like United, pay substantial amounts of money to insure that if they cannot fulfill their pension obligations, the PBGC will protect their employees retirement. When a company is under financial distress, and terminates the pension plan, as United did, the PBGC takes over the plan, and continues paying, according to a schedule set by Congress. Indeed it is often less than if the plan were not terminated, but it is often the last resort, as was in United's case.

It is important to note too that no taxpayer dollars fund the PBGC, which is a common misconception. United paid for years into an insurance plan to cover their workers in the event of a default. Sadly United, along with many other companies, had to call in a claim on this insurance.

Reference Links:
http://www.pbgc.gov/wr/large/united/index.html

http://www.pbgc.gov/about/how-pbgc-operates.html



If it doesn't make sense, it's because it's not true.
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