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Air Asia NEO And 330  
User currently offlinecol From Malaysia, joined Nov 2003, 2116 posts, RR: 22
Posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 6011 times:

Just reading here in Malaysia that AK are looking at 320NEO after recipt of their 175 ordered 320. Not sure when order will be placed. Also, within a couple of weeks expect top up 330 order.

20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineFCKC From France, joined Nov 2004, 2348 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 5738 times:

How many 330s do they wish to order ?

User currently offlinecol From Malaysia, joined Nov 2003, 2116 posts, RR: 22
Reply 2, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 5716 times:

Quoting FCKC (Reply 1):
How many 330s do they wish to order ?

It wasn't specific, only Tony said within two weeks it would be cleared.


User currently offlineChiad From Norway, joined May 2006, 1153 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 5487 times:

Quoting col (Thread starter):
looking at 320NEO after recipt of their 175 ordered 320

Does this mean Airbus can get a NEO order in the class of 100+?


User currently onlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12569 posts, RR: 46
Reply 4, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 5420 times:
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Didn't they just announce deferal of A320 deliveries?

Personally, I suspect they're looking to switch some/most of their outstanding A320s to NEOs.



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineRubberJungle From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5388 times:

Flight had this report a few days ago:

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...st-after-deferring-deliveries.html


User currently offlineTriple Seven From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 530 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 4960 times:

Interesting article found today

From "The Business Times" February 16, 2011

[Paris] AirAsia Bhd, Southeast Asia's biggest discount airline, iss in talk to buy about 175 of Airbus SAS's upgraded A320 jet as it adds short haul flights within the region, chief executive officer Tony Fernandes said.

"We like the product and we'd like to order lots more because there's plenty of growth in our region," Mr Fernandes said in an interview yesterday in Paris. "We haven't agreed financial terms yet"

The tentative order rewards Airbus, a unit of European Aeronautic Defence and Space Co, for its decision to offer a modified version of the A320 single isle jet with more efficient engines.

The A320neo will be introduced in 2016, after postponinig development of an all-new replacement model until as late as 2025, the aircraft maker said on Dec 1.
....

Kuala Lumpur based AirAsia has taken delivery of most of the 175 A320s it bought on a previous contract, and its order for the revamped version will be "not dissimilar" in size, Mr. Fernandes said.

After building up a network of 139 routes among its 75 destinations, the Malaysian low-cost carrier is pulling planes off routes longer than 3.5 hours to take advantage of fast growing demand for short-haul travel.

"If you take a plane to Hydrebad, it's four hours there, four hours back and you lose that plane for the whole day," Mr. Fernandes said. "If I take that route out I can do another three flights to Singapore and the returns is much better."

The CEO spoke before a news conference marking the opening of services between Kuala Lumpur and Paris, the second European destination for long haul unit AirAsia X after London.

The carrier plans to add three or four more European destinations, starting with Berlin or Cologne in the second half of the year, with Milan, Nice, Prague and Budapest under consideration for later, Mr. Fernandes said. AirAsia is in talks to buy more Airbus A330 jets to operate those routes, he added - Bloomberg


User currently offlineChiad From Norway, joined May 2006, 1153 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4788 times:

Quoting Triple Seven (Reply 6):
Interesting article found today

From "The Business Times" February 16, 2011

[Paris] AirAsia Bhd, Southeast Asia's biggest discount airline, iss in talk to buy about 175 of Airbus SAS's upgraded A320 jet as it adds short haul flights within the region, chief executive officer Tony Fernandes said.

Very interesting indeed.
Well ... if it does materialize, together with the IndiGo order, before June then Airbus will have 415 orders for the NEO.
 


User currently offlineSurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2877 posts, RR: 30
Reply 8, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4697 times:

Quoting Triple Seven (Reply 6):
The carrier plans to add three or four more European destinations, starting with Berlin or Cologne in the second half of the year, with Milan, Nice, Prague and Budapest under consideration for later, Mr. Fernandes said. AirAsia is in talks to buy more Airbus A330 jets to operate those routes, he added

BER or CGN, very interesting choice for a German gateway. After going after the obvious London and Paris markets, they skip FRA/MUC and go for a regional airport.

The others are even more surprising. NCE? I understand how the likes of EK can serve that premium market, but who would Air Asia target if it flew there??!?



Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25323 posts, RR: 85
Reply 9, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4685 times:
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Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 8):
BER or CGN, very interesting choice for a German gateway. After going after the obvious London and Paris markets, they skip FRA/MUC and go for a regional airport.

I think Berlin is a very good idea. I wish Air New Zealand would fly there.  

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4069 times:

Air Asia has currently 86 A320 in operation and another 89 on order. I don't think they would order many additional A320 neo, I think they'll change much of their existing order to A320 neo, plus a few additional ones, but keeping some of the classic A320s on order.

Quoting Triple Seven (Reply 6):
The carrier plans to add three or four more European destinations, starting with Berlin or Cologne in the second half of the year, with Milan, Nice, Prague and Budapest under consideration for later, Mr. Fernandes said. AirAsia is in talks to buy more Airbus A330 jets to operate those routes, he added - Bloomberg

Could their A330-300s do TXL-KUL? That's 9,660 km.

Quoting mariner (Reply 9):
I think Berlin is a very good idea. I wish Air New Zealand would fly there.

Haha, agreed.

Plus about 50 other airlines that currently don't.


User currently offlinecol From Malaysia, joined Nov 2003, 2116 posts, RR: 22
Reply 11, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3863 times:

Quoting Thorben (Reply 10):
Air Asia has currently 86 A320 in operation and another 89 on order. I don't think they would order many additional A320 neo, I think they'll change much of their existing order to A320 neo, plus a few additional ones, but keeping some of the classic A320s on order.

Maybe 10 might get changed to the NEO, but they will need frames between now and 2016 for Philippines and also growing their existing bases in Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand and Vietnam.

Quoting Thorben (Reply 10):
Could their A330-300s do TXL-KUL? That's 9,660 km.

Maybe the new order will include 332's?


User currently offlineCFBFrame From United States of America, joined May 2009, 531 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3388 times:

This is where NEO orders fall into the sham ranks. Here we have an airline that has, over the last 18 months, deferred a/c. I know the deferrals are driven by market conditions but when you have not finished your current order and claim that you are going to double your fleet, it just makes the case hard to accept. So if all orders are from customers in this boat, the announcements are great news but are we that stupid to believe this ends up being nothing more than double counting of Classic sales? On that note why don't we just congratulate Airbus for being able to convert all Classic orders post 2016 into NEOs and then grant them a 3% YOY growth between EIS and the following 10 years? This gives JL what he wants, and we can send him into retirement? They have 2395 units of A320 family orders outstanding, what ever percentage of that to be delivered post 2016 is what is being announced currently with a 3 percent growth included. That's your number for Paris in the summer, and that does make sense. Congraulations Airbus for being able to use NEO to confirm your backlog and kick the little CSeries into the mud. When this get interesting to me is when Airbus announces a new customer like WN.

User currently offline9MMAR From Malaysia, joined Jul 2006, 2110 posts, RR: 18
Reply 13, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 3168 times:

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 8):
NCE? I understand how the likes of EK can serve that premium market, but who would Air Asia target if it flew there??!?

NCE is probably being mentioned due to the fact that D7 has already got rights to operate at the airport. But we all know that the airline is in no hurry to fly there. There are far more important missions for D7 to secure - SYD and JED.

Personally, I would very much hoping that D7 will launch a service into the Scandinavia (ARN) and Moscow where there is a huge demand for low cost flights into South East Asia more than any of the other European cities mentioned in the article.

Quoting col (Reply 11):
and also growing their existing bases in Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand and Vietnam.

AirAsia is still having problem with its VietJet operation. Vietnam is now even behind the Philippines start up in terms of progress.


User currently offlinecloudyapple From Hong Kong, joined Jul 2005, 2454 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3022 times:

Quoting CFBFrame (Reply 12):
This is where NEO orders fall into the sham ranks. Here we have an airline that has, over the last 18 months, deferred a/c. I know the deferrals are driven by market conditions but when you have not finished your current order and claim that you are going to double your fleet, it just makes the case hard to accept. So if all orders are from customers in this boat, the announcements are great news but are we that stupid to believe this ends up being nothing more than double counting of Classic sales? On that note why don't we just congratulate Airbus for being able to convert all Classic orders post 2016 into NEOs and then grant them a 3% YOY growth between EIS and the following 10 years? This gives JL what he wants, and we can send him into retirement? They have 2395 units of A320 family orders outstanding, what ever percentage of that to be delivered post 2016 is what is being announced currently with a 3 percent growth included. That's your number for Paris in the summer, and that does make sense. Congraulations Airbus for being able to use NEO to confirm your backlog and kick the little CSeries into the mud. When this get interesting to me is when Airbus announces a new customer like WN.

No one is double counting, only you. Sales reports at end of year always give a gross and a net figure.

Same when airlines change from B737 to B738. You cancel a bunch and order a bunch so they are all accounted for.

However, value-wise this is going to be a net gain. So it is not a straight swap.



A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
User currently onlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12569 posts, RR: 46
Reply 15, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3009 times:
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Quoting CFBFrame (Reply 12):
So if all orders are from customers in this boat, the announcements are great news but are we that stupid to believe this ends up being nothing more than double counting of Classic sales?

Only if that's what you want to believe.   

Since Airbus hasn't, thus far, identified NEO orders separately from orders for A320 classics, how can any "double counting" be going on? Virgin America's order for 30 x classic and 30 x NEO is simply listed by Airbus as 60 A320 orders. If Air Asia converts outstanding classic orders to NEO, there will be no change in overall numbers reported by Airbus.

If in the future Airbus starts counting NEOs separately, then, using an Air Asia conversion as an example, I would expect an order for NEOs to be added and a corresponding cancellation for classics. This is exactly what Airbus did when converting original A350 orders to XWBs. No double counting.

As for the rest of your rant...   



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlinecol From Malaysia, joined Nov 2003, 2116 posts, RR: 22
Reply 16, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2953 times:

Quoting CFBFrame (Reply 12):
This is where NEO orders fall into the sham ranks.
Quoting CFBFrame (Reply 12):
When this get interesting to me is when Airbus announces a new customer like WN.

Hold on there tiger! I would suggest you wait until the WN order happens before you reply to an Airbus topic again.

Air Asia have extended the delivery of some frames. Which is a very good business move. I also see many US carriers doing the same thing. They are still taking between what 10 - 12 frames per year with a larger batch in 2015. That is all their orders for classic complete. By 2015 maybe they could defer 10 as I have said before. The Neo's could be delivered over a 10 year period, allowing for growth and replacement of the older units.

These are pretty much the facts. CFBFrame where you get your ideas from, I do not know. You need to understand Air Asia and its requirements, before you reply in this manner.


User currently offlineCFBFrame From United States of America, joined May 2009, 531 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2844 times:

Just like accounting to address sales numbers. It should be expected that existing customers will transfer to NEO but to say that these orders are major changes in the overall A320 backlog may be a stretch. This customer and the others are doing the smart thing transferring from classics to NEOs, but to say those moves are big news is also a stretch. So when an airline says they are ready to announce a big order, let's make sure there is a reasonableness in the excitment. As for saying that there is an economic up tick from these orders may be premature.

User currently offlineAirStare From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 22 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2835 times:

Talking about all this, what do people think is the likelihood that IndiGo will take all 150 of the A320neos and 30 A320s for which it has signed an MOU, considering it's nowhere near completing deliveries yet of all of its first 100 A320s, ordered years ago? I'd be interested to hear.

User currently offlinecloudyapple From Hong Kong, joined Jul 2005, 2454 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2766 times:

Quoting CFBFrame (Reply 17):
but to say that these orders are major changes in the overall A320 backlog may be a stretch.

No one has even implied this. Only you. What are you smoking?

Quoting CFBFrame (Reply 17):
but to say those moves are big news is also a stretch

It is big news because this is amongst the first (transfer of) orders for a major new variant. There are discussions for Southwest going B738 and that's going from an existing type to another existing type. What is not worth a thread here?

Quoting CFBFrame (Reply 17):
As for saying that there is an economic up tick from these orders may be premature.

This is fact. An A320NEO costs more than a current gen A320. No dispute about that.



A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
User currently offlinecol From Malaysia, joined Nov 2003, 2116 posts, RR: 22
Reply 20, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2660 times:

Quoting 9MMAR (Reply 13):
AirAsia is still having problem with its VietJet operation. Vietnam is now even behind the Philippines start up in terms of progress.

Thanks for info. It still needs to happen, Vietnam is going to be a very strong market in future.

Quoting CFBFrame (Reply 17):
So when an airline says they are ready to announce a big order, let's make sure there is a reasonableness in the excitment.

Let me guess, it must be a US carrier with the name........Southwest. You are so predictable. Asian/Malaysian carriers placing orders are just as big news as US Carriers. Where are a lot of your beloved Boeing frames going. So yes, there is reasonableness in this topic. Why do you think I started the topic in the first place.

Quoting CFBFrame (Reply 17):
It should be expected that existing customers will transfer to NEO but to say that these orders are major changes in the overall A320 backlog may be a stretch.

So please tell me how many existing 320 orders are Air Asia going to transfer to NEO. Remember they have 89 on order, another 12 this year will be delivered I believe, leaving 77. 2012/2013/2014/2015 are something like 14, 22, 22 19 respectively. In the next few years they will have Philippines and Vietnam on line. Add to those growth at Indonesia, Malaysia and Thailand.

Quoting CFBFrame (Reply 17):
As for saying that there is an economic up tick from these orders may be premature.

Air Asia take 165 of their existing order. Transfer 10 old units to NEO = $80 additional turnover to Airbus. Then they order 50 new NEO's, yep don't see any economic up tick at all!!


It is obvious that you are hijacking my topic for your own Airbus bashing goal. Start your own topic on Air Asia, NEO and the 330 situation, but please support it with some facts, you are sounding like a spoilt child.


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