Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
OAG Changes 2/18/2011: AA/B6/DL/F9/FL/UA  
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7192 posts, RR: 13
Posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 9216 times:

Plz be kind on typos!!

This compares what is for sale THIS WEEK for the stated period versus what was for sale LAST WEEK...It does NOT compare to last year or now.

How to read:
Flights are daily except as noted "/wk" which means per week.
The code listed is the marketing code. Clearly there are a lot of regional operators, but that is too complicated for this report.
ABE-MDT 2>10/WK means a reduction from 2 daily flights to 10 flights per week which is about 1.5 flights
ABE-MDT 3>2 APR ONLY means a reduction in one roundtrip from 3 to 2 for April only
ABE-MDT 3.8>2.7 APR-JUN This is the raw format of the data which sometimes I'm too lazy to retype. It means that over a month they were averaging a little less than 4 trips per day and now it's a little less than 3 per day. So, basically they cancelled 8 flights per week or so. Airlines are doing A LOT of non-daily ops now, so these fractions are pervasive.
ABE-MDT 4>6 MAY- means an increase from 4 to 6 roundtrips starting in May and continuing
ABE-MDT 4>6 MAY-JUN, 5>6 JUL means the change is only for the stated period May to June and then a different change for July in the same route


3E
SCHEDULE EXTENDED
ORD-BRL 0>2 MAR-
ORD-DEC 0>3 MAR-
STL-BRL 0>1 MAR-
STL-DEC 0>2 MAR-

9K
ALB-BOS 0>3 MAR-

AA
DFW-RAP 1>2 JUN-
DFW-SHV 8>7 APR-
DFW-GRI 0>2 JUN-
ORD-GRR 7>6 JUN-
ORD-YYZ 10>8 JUN-
SJU-NEV 0>3/WK JUN- Svc Extended (???)
SJU-SKB 1>2 APR-
SJU-SLU 1>2 APR-
SJU-STT 2>3 APR-
SJU-SYX 3>2 APR-

B6
JFK-ACK 2>1 MAY-
BOS-CLT 3>2 MAY-
BOS-IAD 6>5 MAY-
BOS-LAS 1>2 JUN-
BOS-MCO 8>7 JUN-
BOS-PDX 0>1 MAY-
BOS-SRQ 1>1/WK MAY-JUN; 0>1/WK

JUL-
FLL-BDL 2>1 JUN-
HPN-MCO 4>5 MAY-
JFK-AUS 3>2 MAY-
JFK-BGI 1>2 JUL-
JFK-BTV 3>4 JUN-
JFK-PWM 3>4 JUN-
JFK-SYR 4>3 JUN-
LGB-SMF 3>2 MAY-

CO
IAD-CDG 0>1 JUN-
MCO-MIA 4>0 APR-

DL
ATL-OAK 4/WK>0 JUN-SEP Never starts
ATL-ONT 2>1 JUN ONLY
ATL-OKC 6>5 JUN ONLY
ATL-ROC 5>4 JUN-
ATL-TPA 12>11 JUN-
CVG-DSM 0>1 JUN- Mesaba mntc
CVG-MKE 4>3 JUN-
DTW-ERI 5>4 JUN-
MSP-DEN 8>7 JUN-
MSP-PHX 6>5 JUN-
MSP-PVD 2>1 JUN ONLY
MSP-RSW 2>1 JUN-
MSP-YVR 4>3 JUN-
SLC-TUL 2>1 JUN-

F9
MKE-BKG 2/1K>0 MAY- Does not start
DEN-ASE 4>2 SEP-
DEN-JAC 1>3/WK SEP-
DEN-MCO 2>1 JUL-
DEN-RSW 4/WK>1/WK MAY-SEP;1/WK>0 SEP-
DEN-SLC 5>6 MAY-

FL
I expect most of these will come back later for November.
ATL-DAY 4>3 SEP-
ATL-DEN 4>3 SEP-
ATL-DFW 7>6 SEP-
ATL-FNT 4>3 SEP-
ATL-HOU 7>5 SEP-
ATL-IAD 4>3 SEP-
ATL-MCI 4>3 SEP-
ATL-MCO 11>10 SEP-
ATL-MDW 8>7 SEP-
ATL-MKE 5>4 SEP-
ATL-MSP 5>4 SEP-
ATL-NAS 1>4/WK SEP-
ATL-PWM 2>1 SEP-
ATL-SAT 4>3 SEP-
ATL-SEA 3>2 SEP-
ATL-SFO 4>3 SEP-
ATL-SJU 3>2 SEP-
ATL-STL 4>3 SEP-
BOS-CAK 2>1 SEP-
BWI-BDA 1>5/WK SEP-
BWI-CUN 1>5/WK SEP-
BWI-GRR 3>2 SEP-
BWI-LAX 2>1 SEP-
BWI-MBJ 1>4/WK SEP-
BWI-MIA 1>5/WK SEP-
BWI-NAS 4/WK>3/WK SEP-
BWI-SJU 2>1 SEP-
MCO-CLT 1>4/WK SEP-
MCO-EYW 1>4/WK SEP-
MCO-MDT 1>5/WK SEP-
MCO-MDW 3>2 SEP-
MCO-MSP 1> 4/WK SEP-
MCO-PHL 4>3 SEP-
MCO-SJU 4>2.5 SEP-
MCO-STL 1>2/WK SEP-
MKE-FLL 1>2/WK SEP-
MKE-MSY 1>4/WK SEP-
MKE-SEA 2>1 SEP-
MKE-SFO 2>1 SEP-
SJU-TPA 2>1 SEP-

LH
MIA-MUC 5/WK>0 MAY-

UA
DEN-RAP 7>8 JUN-AUG
DEN-RNO 3>4 JUN-AUG
DEN-TUL 4>5 JUN-AUG
EWR-ZRH 0>1 JUN-
EWR-BRU 0>1 SEP-
ORD-PIA 4>5 JUN-AUG
ORD-SPI 3>4 JUN-AUG

US
CLT-FRA 2>1 MAY-
CLT-SJU 4>3 JUN-
PHL-YQB 0>3 JUN-
PHL-ANC 1>11/WK JUN-AUG

WN
July 2011 vs. Sep 2011
If this differs from their blog, it's them not me.  
AUS-BWI 2.8>1.9
AUS-ELP 3.5>2.7
AUS-MCO 2.2>1.0
BDL-MCO 3.0>1.9
BDL-TPA 2.0>1.0
BNA-BWI 6.4>5.7
BNA-MCO 4.8>3.8
BNA-MDW 7.4>6.5
BNA-MSY 2.8>1.9
BNA-PHX 2.8>2.0
BNA-PVD 1.0>0.0
BNA-SAN 1.8>1.0
BUF-MCO 3.0>2.1
BUF-TPA 2.0>1.0
BUR-DEN 0.0>2.0
BWI-AUS 2.8>2.0
BWI-BNA 6.4>5.8
BWI-FLL 5.1>3.8
BWI-HOU 3.8>3.0
BWI-IND 3.6>2.7
BWI-JAN 1.8>1.0
BWI-JAX 3.9>2.8
BWI-MCO 8.2>5.9
BWI-MHT 8.3>7.6
BWI-MSY 3.0>1.8
BWI-ORF 4.8>3.8
BWI-PBI 2.8>1.9
BWI-PHX 3.8>2.8
BWI-RDU 6.4>5.5
BWI-SAT 3.0>2.0
BWI-SEA 1.0>0.0
BWI-TPA 5.6>4.7
CMH-MCO 3.3>2.0
CMH-PHX 1.8>1.0
CMH-TPA 2.9>2.0
DAL-LIT 5.5>4.6
DAL-MCI 9.2>8.2
DAL-MSY 6.6>5.5
DEN-BUR 0.0>2.0
DEN-LAX 7.4>6.7
DEN-MDW 8.5>7.4
DEN-SNA 2.8>3.6
DTW-MDW 6.3>5.6
DTW-PHX 2.0>1.0
ELP-AUS 3.5>2.7
FLL-BWI 5.0>3.9
FLL-MCI 1.2>0.0
FLL-MDW 4.1>2.9
FLL-MSY 2.0>1.0
FLL-PVD 2.0>1.0
HNL-LIH 1.5>0.0
HOU-BWI 3.7>2.9
HOU-LAS 4.8>3.8
HOU-MCO 4.9>3.8
HOU-PHL 1.8>1.0
IND-BWI 3.7>2.7
IND-MDW 3.6>2.8
IND-TPA 2.0>1.0
ISP-MCO 5.0>4.0
ISP-PBI 2.8>1.8
ISP-TPA 2.6>1.9
JAN-BWI 1.8>1.0
JAN-MDW 1.8>1.0
JAX-BWI 3.9>2.7
LAS-HOU 4.8>3.8
LAS-MDW 9.4>8.8
LAS-OAK 8.6>7.6
LAS-PHX 13.4>12.8
LAS-RNO 10.4>8.7
LAX-DEN 7.4>6.6
LAX-MCI 2.8>2.0
LAX-MDW 6.6>5.7
LIH-OGG 3.0>0.0
LIT-DAL 5.5>4.6
MCI-DAL 9.1>8.2
MCI-FLL 1.2>0.0
MCI-LAX 2.8>2.0
MCI-MCO 3.1>2.0
MCI-SAN 2.0>1.0
MCI-TPA 2.2>1.0
MCO-AUS 2.1>1.0
MCO-BDL 2.9>1.9
MCO-BNA 4.9>3.9
MCO-BUF 3.2>2.0
MCO-BWI 8.2>5.9
MCO-CMH 3.2>1.9
MCO-HOU 4.9>3.7
MCO-ISP 5.0>4.0
MCO-MCI 3.1>2.0
MCO-MDW 7.0>4.9
MCO-MHT 3.0>2.0
MCO-MSY 4.8>3.7
MCO-PHX 1.8>1.0
MCO-PIT 3.3>2.1
MCO-RDU 3.9>2.8
MCO-RSW 3.8>3.0
MCO-SAT 3.0>1.0
MCO-STL 4.2>3.0
MDW-BNA 7.4>6.4
MDW-DEN 8.7>7.7
MDW-DTW 6.3>5.4
MDW-FLL 4.1>3.0
MDW-IND 3.6>2.7
MDW-JAN 1.8>1.0
MDW-LAS 9.5>8.6
MDW-LAX 6.4>5.7
MDW-MCO 7.2>4.9
MDW-OMA 5.6>4.7
MDW-PDX 2.9>2.0
MDW-PVD 3.8>3.0
MDW-RDU 4.0>2.8
MDW-RSW 2.8>2.0
MDW-SEA 3.9>2.9
MDW-TPA 4.9>3.7
MDW-TUS 2.0>1.0
MHT-BWI 8.5>7.7
MHT-MCO 2.9>2.0
MHT-TPA 1.8>1.0
MSY-BNA 2.8>1.9
MSY-BWI 2.8>1.8
MSY-DAL 6.6>5.6
MSY-FLL 2.0>1.0
MSY-MCO 4.7>3.8
OAK-LAS 8.6>7.8
OGG-LIH 3.5>0.0
OMA-MDW 5.6>4.7
ONT-SMF 7.0>6.1
ORF-BWI 4.8>3.8
PBI-BWI 3.0>2.0
PBI-ISP 2.7>1.8
PDX-MDW 3.0>1.9
PDX-PHX 3.7>2.8
PDX-SLC 2.8>2.0
PHL-HOU 1.7>1.0
PHL-PHX 2.0>1.0
PHL-PIT 5.1>3.7
PHL-TPA 3.8>3.0
PHX-BNA 2.6>1.9
PHX-BWI 3.6>2.7
PHX-CMH 1.9>1.0
PHX-DTW 2.0>1.0
PHX-MCO 2.0>1.0
PHX-PDX 3.9>2.9
PHX-PHL 1.8>1.0
PHX-PIT 2.0>1.0
PHX-TPA 2.0>1.0
PIT-MCO 3.3>2.1
PIT-PHL 5.1>3.7
PIT-PHX 1.9>1.0
PVD-BNA 1.0>0.0
PVD-FLL 1.8>1.0
PVD-MDW 3.8>3.0
RDU-BWI 6.4>5.6
RDU-MCO 3.9>2.8
RDU-MDW 3.9>2.8
RNO-LAS 10.5>8.7
RSW-MCO 3.6>2.8
RSW-MDW 2.8>1.9
SAN-BNA 1.8>1.0
SAN-MCI 2.0>1.0
SAT-BWI 3.0>1.9
SAT-MCO 3.0>1.0
SEA-BWI 1.0>0.0
SEA-MDW 3.8>2.9
SLC-PDX 2.7>1.8
SMF-ONT 7.1>6.2
SNA-DEN 2.8>3.5
STL-MCO 4.0>3.0
TPA-BDL 2.0>1.0
TPA-BUF 2.0>1.0
TPA-BWI 5.6>4.7
TPA-CMH 3.0>2.0
TPA-IND 2.0>1.0
TPA-ISP 2.8>2.0
TPA-MCI 2.2>1.0
TPA-MDW 4.9>3.7
TPA-MHT 2.0>1.0
TPA-PHL 3.6>3.0
TPA-PHX 1.8>1.0
TUS-MDW 2.0>1.0

ZK
EFF APR-
IWD-RHI 2.0>0
MBL-MKE 2.0>0
MKE-MBL 2.0>0
MKE-RHI 2.0>0
RHI-IWD 2.0>0
RHI-MKE 2.0>0

48 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinewwtraveler99 From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 293 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 9000 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
WN
July 2011 vs. Sep 2011
If this differs from their blog, it's them not me.
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
HNL-LIH 1.5>0.0

Did WN start HNL service already???? I will assume this is your error not thiers?

Thanks for the update. Always like to see the post every week.

WW


User currently onlineatrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5692 posts, RR: 52
Reply 2, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 8956 times:

Quoting wwtraveler99 (Reply 1):

Did WN start HNL service already???? I will assume this is your error not thiers?

I was gonna say..everything that he did for WN looked just like the blog did except the Hawaii routes.

I don't think he filed it intentionally, unless WN is telling us something we don't know! Secret government movements ya know?  

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5437 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 8954 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
B6
JFK-ACK 2>1 MAY-
BOS-CLT 3>2 MAY-
BOS-IAD 6>5 MAY-
BOS-LAS 1>2 JUN-
BOS-MCO 8>7 JUN-
BOS-PDX 0>1 MAY-
BOS-SRQ 1>1/WK

BOS-SAN 1>2 JUN-

bb


User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7192 posts, RR: 13
Reply 4, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 8710 times:

Quoting wwtraveler99 (Reply 1):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
WN
July 2011 vs. Sep 2011
If this differs from their blog, it's them not me.
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
HNL-LIH 1.5>0.0

Did WN start HNL service already???? I will assume this is your error not thiers?

Thanks for the update. Always like to see the post every week.

WW

Sorry. Those Hawaii changes were from another code. Sorry!


User currently offlineUA2162 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 495 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 8534 times:

I'm thinking it's a mix up between codes WN and WP (Island Air)

User currently offlinerealsim From Spain, joined Apr 2010, 645 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 8439 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
SJU-NEV 0>3/WK JUN- Svc Extended (???)
SJU-SKB 1>2 APR-
SJU-SLU 1>2 APR-
SJU-STT 2>3 APR-
SJU-SYX 3>2 APR-

I don't understand at all what AA is doing with SJU. They add, end, and add flights without any logic.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
ORD-YYZ 10>8 JUN-

The route will lose those 2 frequencies but will see, again, mainline service with 2 daily S80, 5 daily ER4 and 1 daily CR7, vs. 5 ER4 and 4 CR7 until then.


User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6764 posts, RR: 32
Reply 7, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 8426 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
B6
JFK-ACK 2>1 MAY-
BOS-CLT 3>2 MAY-

It's very odd to see B6 pulling back on JFK-ACK in the wake of DL adding this route. The reduction on BOS-CLT is also a bit surprising; it will be difficult to compete with US for business travelers with only two frequencies.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
US
CLT-FRA 2>1 MAY-

This is a shocker, too: reducing planned service to a Star hub during the peak summer season? Are they losing share with the entry of CO into Star and the LH/CO/UA joint venture?

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
FL
I expect most of these will come back later for November.

Except ATL-DFW, of course.


User currently offlineRJNUT From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1222 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 8379 times:

Quoting ScottB (Reply 7):

It's very odd to see B6 pulling back on JFK-ACK in the wake of DL adding this route.



appears to go back up in July!


User currently offlineknope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2916 posts, RR: 30
Reply 9, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 8383 times:

Thanks, as always for compiling and posting all of this!

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
F9
MKE-BKG 2/1K>0 MAY- Does not start

The E190 which was going to fly these two weekly trips is instead going to fly MKE-SAN-MKE twice per week as talked about in a different thread:

--Removing an A319 from Milwaukee (likely as part of the shuffling to fund the E170-to-Delta program) meant losing the originally-schedule morning MKE-SAN-MKE trip.

--To keep some level of MKE-SAN nonstop service, they are instead offering a Saturday morning A319, and an E190 on Monday and Wednesday. The E190 for those two days is what had been scheduled to do Branson.


MKE-BKG flew 2-3 times per week from July into early December and filled about 70% of seats. However given the "unusual" nature of Branson's air service it's particularly hard to know exactly what sort of financial returns MKE-BKG brought Frontier.


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5437 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 8274 times:

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 9):
The E190 which was going to fly these two weekly trips is instead going to fly MKE-SAN-MKE twice per week as talked about in a different thread:
--Removing an A319 from Milwaukee (likely as part of the shuffling to fund the E170-to-Delta program) meant losing the originally-schedule morning MKE-SAN-MKE trip.
--To keep some level of MKE-SAN nonstop service, they are instead offering a Saturday morning A319, and an E190 on Monday and Wednesday. The E190 for those two days is what had been scheduled to do Branson

Thanks for this further expanation of the SAN-sitaution, Knope'.

bb


User currently offlinewn676 From Djibouti, joined Jun 2005, 1038 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 8258 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
PHL-ANC 1>11/WK JUN-AUG

Do you mean PHX? I know they added a second flight from there, haven't seen anything extra from PHL.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 7):

This is a shocker, too: reducing planned service to a Star hub during the peak summer season? losing share with the entry of CO into Star and the LH/CO/UA joint venture?

Apparently it had to do with slot timing.



Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
User currently offlineBOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1990 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 8193 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
9K
ALB-BOS 0>3 MAR-

If B6 could put its code on this (and every other 9K destination from BOS they haven't added the code to yet), ALB pax could connect to most B6 destinations. It will also save them the three-hour drive to JFK, EWR or BOS for flights to Europe or the Caribbean. Also, pax from BOS can connect in ALB to the northern New York State destinations they serve from there. This is a good addition on their part.



2013 World Series Champions!
User currently offlineberyllium From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 8164 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):

F9
MKE-BKG 2/1K>0 MAY- Does not start
Quoting knope2001 (Reply 9):
The E190 which was going to fly these two weekly trips is instead going to fly MKE-SAN-MKE twice per week as talked about in a different thread

MKESAN is seasonal and only until November, right?
It will be 3/WK in summer and in September. But. in the fall it's gonna be:
Oct-11: 3/WK > 2/WK
Nov-11 and going forward: 3/WK > 0


User currently offlineFL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1542 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 7937 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
ATL-PWM 2>1 SEP-
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
BWI-LAX 2>1 SEP-
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
BWI-MIA 1>5/WK SEP-

I'm surprised all of these are staying in September. I'm pretty sure the first two ended in Sept last year and I don't know how MIA survives with 5 weekly flights.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
MCO-EYW 1>4/WK SEP-

FWIW, TPA-EYW will also operate 4/WK.

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 9):

Am I correct in thinking this E90 basically operates SAN/SAT/SAN/PIE/SAT/PIE/SAT from Monday to Friday?



717,72S,732/3/4/5/G/8/9,744,752/3,763/4,772/3,D9S/5,M8/90,D10,319/20/21,332/3,388,CR2/7/9,EM2,ER4,E70/75/90,SF3,AR8
User currently offlineSurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2870 posts, RR: 30
Reply 15, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 7701 times:

Quoting realsim (Reply 6):
I don't understand at all what AA is doing with SJU. They add, end, and add flights without any logic.

If we are just talking about AA (mainline), the overall strategy is clear - cut basically all non-hub related p2p flying, to consolidate around the five hubs: ORD, DFW, LAX, MIA, and NYC (JFK/LGA). SJU is no longer a hub for them, so all the remaining spokes (TPA, BWI, PHL, etc.) get the axe, except for two profitable niche routes: BDL and CCS. BDL is a very strong VFR market with respect to the Caribbean, and I wouldn't be surprised if the airport provides financial assistance to keep their only n/s link to the Caribbean intact. As for CCS, they probably get quite a few wealthy Latin American tourists along with VFR and maybe even some biz traffic. Plus, the U.S.-Venezuela frequency is valuable and non-transferable as it stands today.

Eagle is different. They have a true hub at SJU, and not only are they crucially important to San Juan (and Puerto Rico), but also the outstations they serve. Many of the islands are willing to go to great lengths (pay AA lots of $$$) to keep a convenient air link open to get American tourists that are vital to the national economy. Let's compare two cuts: mainline/PHL, and Eagle/SXM.

In April AA is cutting its longstanding PHL-SJU route. Though it is a symbolic loss, neither PHL nor SJU is going to care enough to do much about it. There is still US on the route, and perhaps AA's departure makes it possible for an LCC like B6 or FL to fill the void. After all, look at what happened at TPA - another market losing its AA SJU service. Instead of one expensive daily AA flight to SJU they will now have 4 cheap daily options between B6 and FL!

Then there's SXM. Eagle came to them stating that service would be cut if they didn't pay up to subsidize the flight. SXM rebuffed their offer (no surprise, as they have plenty of n/s service from the mainland U.S. anyway), and will lose their SJU Eagle flights in April. Eagle went around to other islands, and St. Kitts and Nevis not only found the $$ to keep their flights intact, but paid for additional flights! Their islands are now even more accessible to American tourists than before. However, if they pull the plug on the subsidy, rest assured that the flights will be gone.

Here's an article that sums it all up for you:

http://www.thedailyherald.com/island...n-flight-in-april-to-st-kitts.html

Quoting FL787 (Reply 14):
I don't know how MIA survives with 5 weekly flights.

I'm guessing they are just keeping it open to give WN the option of keeping or dumping it. After all they have gone into BOS, LGA, SFO, etc. lately - why not the prime Florida airport? Imagine the opportunities, especially international, out of there...



Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlineFL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1542 posts, RR: 12
Reply 16, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 7644 times:

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 15):
I'm guessing they are just keeping it open to give WN the option of keeping or dumping it.

I don't see why FL staying makes it any easier for WN to add MIA than if they don't. Either way WN would probably have to hire employees and sign a new gate lease agreement.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 15):
Imagine the opportunities, especially international, out of there...

WN and FL are first going to have to learn how to sell tickets outside the country before they try anything like that.



717,72S,732/3/4/5/G/8/9,744,752/3,763/4,772/3,D9S/5,M8/90,D10,319/20/21,332/3,388,CR2/7/9,EM2,ER4,E70/75/90,SF3,AR8
User currently offlineknope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2916 posts, RR: 30
Reply 17, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 7497 times:

Quoting beryllium (Reply 13):
MKESAN is seasonal and only until November, right?
It will be 3/WK in summer and in September. But. in the fall it's gonna be:
Oct-11: 3/WK > 2/WK
Nov-11 and going forward: 3/WK > 0

Yup, that's how things look for the moment. I say "for the moment" because there's a fair chance 5-7 months out the schedule could change. MKE-SAN just ran into early September last year, and if it bookings and yields are soft perhaps it won't be kept into November.



Quoting FL787 (Reply 14):


Am I correct in thinking this E90 basically operates SAN/SAT/SAN/PIE/SAT/PIE/SAT from Monday to Friday?

That looks like the case...the E190 runs MKE-MCO-MKE in the morning, and then in the afternoon it runs to SAT some days, SAN others, and PIE on others.


User currently offlineFL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1542 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7462 times:

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 17):
That looks like the case...the E190 runs MKE-MCO-MKE in the morning, and then in the afternoon it runs to SAT some days, SAN others, and PIE on others.

Honestly I'm surprised they are flying to SAN at all nonstop because it appears that if they were to ditch SAN and just fly to SAT and PIE then they could fly MKE-SFO on Monday and Wednesday because the E90 would be back to MKE in time.



717,72S,732/3/4/5/G/8/9,744,752/3,763/4,772/3,D9S/5,M8/90,D10,319/20/21,332/3,388,CR2/7/9,EM2,ER4,E70/75/90,SF3,AR8
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5437 posts, RR: 12
Reply 19, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7450 times:

Quoting beryllium (Reply 13):
MKESAN is seasonal and only until November, right?
It will be 3/WK in summer and in September. But. in the fall it's gonna be:
Oct-11: 3/WK > 2/WK
Nov-11 and going forward: 3/WK > 0

Since this is only the second summer (year) the service has op'd, it is hard to know what the plans are. Last Fall, SAN-MKE was supposed to run into November (and as a daily A-319) but ended up getting axed around Labor Day.

And so far this year, the schedule has already changed several times before the service ever starts. And last year, Knope' gave a very thorough and understandable explanation as to why MKE-SAN does not run in the winter.

So I certainly don't know what will ultimately happen with the market but I know it's very different than it was last summer!

bb


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25281 posts, RR: 85
Reply 20, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7420 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting SANFan (Reply 19):
So I certainly don't know what will ultimately happen with the market but I know it's very different than it was last summer!

The price of fuel is very different, too.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineFutureUScapt From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 765 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7392 times:

Quoting ScottB (Reply 7):
This is a shocker, too: reducing planned service to a Star hub during the peak summer season? Are they losing share with the entry of CO into Star and the LH/CO/UA joint venture?

Actually it was a slot issue. US loaded the second flight with what were effectively placeholder slots, hoping that they could secure better times in the coming months. Unfortunately that did not pan out so they are reversing their plans to add the 2nd daily CLT-FRA flight.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 7):
The reduction on BOS-CLT is also a bit surprising; it will be difficult to compete with US for business travelers with only two frequencies.

True but at least it's a much more appropriate amount of capacity for the route. Last summer B6 was flying this route as many as 4x daily; it was reduced to 3x after the summer and has been 2x daily as of February. And of course you can't overlook that US flies the route 9x daily - even with much lower fares, there's already an ample amount of capacity on the route (US' traffic base will just shift towards being less flow heavy). As I've said on here many times, it will be tough for LCCs to major major inroads at CLT because it has all of the challenges of entering a heavily entrenched fortress that a place like MSP/PHL/etc does, but few of the benefits (i.e. the O&D traffic, even assuming some stimulation, will grossly pale that of the larger fortress hubs).

Quoting wn676 (Reply 11):
Do you mean PHX? I know they added a second flight from there, haven't seen anything extra from PHL.

Yes, PHX is what it should be. US be will have a 2nd frequency on Fr/Sa/Su from PHX starting 03Jun.


User currently offlinesmoot4208 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1307 posts, RR: 11
Reply 22, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 7084 times:

Quoting ScottB (Reply 7):
The reduction on BOS-CLT is also a bit surprising; it will be difficult to compete with US for business travelers with only two frequencies.

Actually it's Not surprising at all. No LCC has ever done well in CLT. US has the bank corporate contracts here in CLT as well as a loyal crowd. The latter works for BOS as well. If you look at the fares that B6 is charging on the BOS-CLT route in March, you will see almost the entire month is being sold at $61. With that fare B6 is desperately trying to catch additional bottom feeder traffic....And it's not working. B6 just doesn't have anywhere else to put the airplanes.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23023 posts, RR: 20
Reply 23, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6899 times:

Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 22):
No LCC has ever done well in CLT.

Really? I guess you could argue that DH didn't do well anywhere (and you might be right), but by all indications, CLT was one of DH's star performers.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlinesmoot4208 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1307 posts, RR: 11
Reply 24, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 6433 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 23):
you could argue that DH didn't do well anywhere

Exactly. AFAIK, they never made a profit, so with charging their $59 fares from IAD-CLT I'm sure the flights were always full. Service started October 1, 2004 and ended January 5, 2006. 15 months for a route is not by my terms, "Successful" ATA ( July, 18, 2002-January 4, 2005) lasted about twice as long but found out quickly that there was no room for an LCC in the CLT-Chicago market with 3 other carriers on the route. (For some reason FL thought that rule didn't apply to them and they found out the hard way) DH was the 3rd carrier in the Charlotte-DC market and there was no room for an LCC in that market. Even with Connections, B6 found out there was no room for them on the CLT-FLL route. FL's service to ATL has decreased YOW, while BWI has stayed at 2-Just enough for connections, not O&D, and their CLT-MCO service comes and goes


25 apodino : Which may be why they are trying PDX from BOS (Though I think CLT is a 190, but I could be wrong). But one thing that stands out for me here is that
26 SurfandSnow : Any idea what time the flight will arrive/depart? The current PHX-ANC service arrives after midnight, and then departs back to PHX around 2 AM. I und
27 wn676 : Flight 138 departs PHX at 17:00 with at 21:42 arrival in ANC, and the return flight 139 departs ANC at 23:35 arriving in PHX the next morning at 06:0
28 SurfandSnow : That is surprising - I would have expected a daytime schedule too. But, at least those times are a bit more tolerable on the ANC end...
29 smoot4208 : US has added a red-eye bank in PHX this summer on peak days. So this aircraft probably has another route to fly early in the morning in PHX. They onl
30 wn676 : Well they did manage to pull off the day flight during December which also had the redeye banks, so I'm sure it wasn't the only way. That being said,
31 Cubsrule : But with the same fares at places like GSO and RDU, they were much less full (double digit differences in l/f, IIRC). What's different? And TZ's use
32 deltal1011man : How is a XJ MX flight when the flight will be on a OH CR2?
33 ScottB : It is surprising when you consider that they actually carried MORE O&D passengers on BOS-CLT than on BOS-RDU in 2Q2010, at fares that were only a
34 Cubsrule : They do not.
35 RamblinMan : It ain't hard to guess. Once schools started back I remember regularly seeing roundtrips available for under $100, even last-minute. Weekend dates we
36 hiflyer : CO MCO-MIA 4>0 APR- Believe that means the end of 3M/CO service at MIA on any route in April. Not surprising...3m has been aggressive on EAS sevice
37 USAirALB : They'll try next year, for sure. Where will the spare 762 go? Wasn't CLT one of the only non-Florida/West Coast A319 destinations?
38 Post contains images enilria : Correct. Sorry! I might change the report format going forward to make it more automated. Typing all of it it is obviously the weak link here. I agre
39 Cubsrule : I expect the need for ATRs is a problem - it's really not an operation that can run on jets.
40 enilria : Because nobody has overwater or because of runway length? Q400s?
41 Cubsrule : That and cargo/excess bags. Q400s could probably do it.
42 enilria : It's interesting because in the SJU announcement by AA I had gotten the impression that the Eagle "hub" was going as well. Did you get that impressio
43 SANFan : Given the situation, I for one find some solace in the fact that perhaps SAN is NOT the low man on Frontier's totem pole. (Sometimes we do have to di
44 Post contains images mariner : Indeed. Frontier's just given you OMA-SAN and turned down a big revenue guarantee from Branson to keep some MKE-SAN. mariner[Edited 2011-02-18 10:56:
45 Post contains images SANFan : Yes, life IS good in America's Finest City! bb
46 FutureUScapt : B6 also had more capacity in BOSCLT during 2Q10 than they did during the same time in BOSRDU since BOSCLT was 2x daily in Apr and BOSRDU was only 1x
47 deltal1011man : Yes I mean it could switch I'm just saying it is an OH flight right now.
48 erj170 : BOS-RDU went to 4 daily because B6 was handed the American Eagle BOS traffic.. when AA pulled RDU-BOS, they went into the codeshare with B6 on BOS-RD
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
OAG Changes 3/12/2010: AA/CO/DL/F9/FL/UA/US/ZK posted Sat Mar 13 2010 08:37:32 by enilria
OAG Changes 7/16/2010: AA/AC/DL/F9/FL/G4/JL posted Tue Jul 13 2010 12:37:44 by enilria
OAG Changes 7/1/2010:1X/AA/AS/DL/F9/G4/UA/YX posted Tue Jun 29 2010 11:15:14 by enilria
OAG Changes 1/15/2010: AS/B6/CO/F9/FL/UA/WN/WP posted Fri Jan 15 2010 07:42:04 by Enilria
OAG Changes 3/5/2010: 9K/B6/DL/F9/FL/UA/YX posted Wed Mar 3 2010 17:38:20 by enilria
OAG Changes 1/14/2011: AA/CO/DL/UA (DEN-LHR Gone) posted Tue Jan 11 2011 07:20:48 by enilria
OAG Changes 11/6/09: AM/CO/DL/F9/FL/HA/MX/NW/UA/US posted Fri Nov 6 2009 07:41:14 by Enilria
OAG Changes 8/27/2010:AA/AC/AS/F9/NK/UA/US/WN posted Wed Aug 25 2010 06:19:46 by enilria
OAG Changes 4/10/09:AA/CO/DL/FI/NW/UA posted Thu Apr 9 2009 21:11:08 by Enilria
OAG Changes 12/24/2010:AA/AS/B6/DL/F9/FL/NK/UA/US posted Tue Dec 21 2010 07:50:57 by enilria