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5th Freedom Services From USA  
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24824 posts, RR: 22
Posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2616 times:

SQ must have the most 5th freedom routes of any carrier from the US.

JFK-FRA
SFO-ICN
SFO-HKG
LAX-NRT
IAH-DME

Other 5th freedom services from the US I can think of. Have I overlooked any?

QF: LAX-AKL
NZ: LAX-LHR
KE: LAX-NRT
KE: LAX-GRU
MH: LAX-TPE
CI: HNL-NRT
CI: ANC-TPE (ends in April)
CI: JFK-KIX (starts in April)
AF: MIA-PAP
9W: JFK-BRU
9W: EWR-BRU
HY JFK-RIX
PR: LAS-YVR
RJ: DTW-YUL
LA: JFK-YYZ (ends in April)

12 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8541 posts, RR: 13
Reply 1, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2603 times:
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Quoting Viscount724 (Thread starter):
Have I overlooked any?

Not quite sure whether AF LAX-PPT and TN LAX-CDG count , I am guessing that they do since French Polynesia is not a DOM and I think they have their own air service agreement with the US rather than being part of the EU-US agreement.



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineHOOnS90 From Malaysia, joined Aug 2001, 2999 posts, RR: 53
Reply 2, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2578 times:
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CHAT OPERATOR

CX YVR-JFK
AF PPT-LAX
KE KIX-GUM
OZ KIX-SPN
NZ RAR-LAX
KU LHR-JFK
PK BCN-ORD



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User currently offlineLonghornmaniac From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 3278 posts, RR: 45
Reply 3, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2495 times:

Not sure ANC-TPE counts, as it's a US-Taiwan route, operated by CI.

Cheers,
Cameron


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24824 posts, RR: 22
Reply 4, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2472 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 1):
Quoting Viscount724 (Thread starter):
Have I overlooked any?

Not quite sure whether AF LAX-PPT and TN LAX-CDG count , I am guessing that they do since French Polynesia is not a DOM and I think they have their own air service agreement with the US rather than being part of the EU-US agreement.

I wasn't sure about that. TN aircraft do have F- registrations. French Polynesia may be covered by some kind of annex to the EU Open Skies agreement. Or even if it's separate, I think it would still somehow be linked to France. The old Canada-France bilateral covered French Polynesia and other French Territories in addition to mainland France.

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 3):
Not sure ANC-TPE counts, as it's a US-Taiwan route, operated by CI.

Yes, you're right. Got confused with the new JFK-KIX-TPE routing replacing the current route via ANC.

[Edited 2011-02-16 17:53:20]

[Edited 2011-02-16 18:01:24]

User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20394 posts, RR: 62
Reply 5, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2394 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Thread starter):
Have I overlooked any?

LAX-LIM on LA600/601. They also have a MIA-CCS flight.

I'd bet if you looked hard enough, you'd find others from the likes of TACA, as they meander down through Central America.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineLonghornmaniac From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 3278 posts, RR: 45
Reply 6, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2371 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 5):
LAX-LIM on LA600/601.

I believe that flight is operated by LAN Peru, though admittedly I'm not sure what the deal is with the LAN group regarding registrations and flags.

Cheers,
Cameron


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20394 posts, RR: 62
Reply 7, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2243 times:

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 6):
I believe that flight is operated by LAN Peru

ITA claims it's still LA instead of LP, and they're usually very stringent in listing the correct airline code and which airline operates the flight. I had to look it up since I had the same question myself!  



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8752 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2080 times:
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Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 5):

Quoting Viscount724 (Thread starter):
Have I overlooked any?

LAX-LIM on LA600/601. They also have a MIA-CCS flight.

LA600/LA601 is operated by LAN Airlines. LAN Airlines also operates:
SCL-BOG-MIA
SCL-CCS-MIA
SCL-PUJ-MIA
SCL-GYE-CCS-MIA
SCL-AKL-SYD
SCL-MAD-CDG
SCL-MAD-FRA


User currently offlineLAXtoATL From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 1590 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2058 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 1):

Not quite sure whether AF LAX-PPT and TN LAX-CDG count

Its a french territory. LAX-PPT would be treated exactly the same as LAX-CDG or LAX-NCE.


User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8541 posts, RR: 13
Reply 10, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1951 times:
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Quoting LAXtoATL (Reply 9):
Its a french territory. LAX-PPT would be treated exactly the same as LAX-CDG or LAX-NCE.

Yes and no , it is under French administration but it is not part of France , it doesn't even have the same currency... I guess a close parallel would be that when Hong Kong was a British Crown Colony that did not make SFO-HKG equivalent to SFO-LHR . Does anyone know for sure what agreement governs air services between French Polynesia and the US ?



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24824 posts, RR: 22
Reply 11, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1502 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 10):
Does anyone know for sure what agreement governs air services between French Polynesia and the US ?

French Polynesia (and other French territories that aren't part of the EU) remain covered by the US-France bilateral that was in effect prior to implementation of the current US-EU Open Skies agreement. There's a provision in the Open Skies agreement stating this (same thing for Denmark (covering Greenland) and the UK (covering British territories such as Bermuda, Cayman Islands and other Caribbean Islands that are still British colonies).

See Section l, Routes in the most recent (2002) amendments to the 1998 US-France bilateral here:
http://www.paclii.org/pits/en/treaty_database/2002/1.html


User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8541 posts, RR: 13
Reply 12, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1487 times:
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Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 11):
French Polynesia (and other French territories that aren't part of the EU) remain covered by the US-France bilateral that was in effect prior to implementation of the current US-EU Open Skies agreement.

Thanks for that information , I guess on that basis I should not consider LAX-PPT on AF or LAX-CDG on TN to be fifth freedom sectors .



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
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